Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?

[chipper05]

It is clear that bvb are ready to let him go at a reasonable fee this year. If we miss out on him and he ends up at another EPL team like pool that will be the clear indication that the glazers are simply not going to invest for winning league title and just want to invest enough to be in top 4.

Not only this year - it was the same last year. There is a gentlemen agreement with the player. If he brings a club who will pay the transfer fee Dortmund expects up to the deadline (may be end of European Championship or start of preparation like last year) Sancho can go. If not he has to stay. And it is clear that the fee will be less than last year because it is one year less contract. In Dortmund it is a simple count: Can he help to bring me the money I will loose if he stays one more year. This year it was perfect: Without Sancho they will not quailify for the Championsleague and not win the cup - therefore it was a good deal for them, even if they will get let us say 40 millions less than last year.
Same with Haaland, if he can go for about 80 millions next year (release clause) it makes no sense to sell him for 120 millions this year, if he brings the team into the Championsleague next year. Ok, there is no guarantee, but this is the idea for years. It started with Lewandowski, when they decided to let him not go to Bayern and he became top scorer and helped Dortmund to reach the Campionsleague.

 

[Zehner]

No doubt that if we get Sancho it will be a mega deal. As it should be, Dortmund should expect to get top dollar for the player. Their hand is not as strong as last year given one less year on contract, and player's desire to leave which club also respects and acknowledges, and hence I don't think it's as hard a deal to pull off as last summer. We have the money and the desire it seems to bring him in. But at the end of the day, it comes down to the Glazers and whether they sanction the fee required or try to be too clever wrangling for saving a few million here or there. It should be straightforward but it's up to us to get things done efficiently. That's not Dortmund's problem.

Yes, the financial part is pretty straightforward. There's a set price and it's clear after last year that there won't be any extensive negotiations by Dortmund.

I'm unsure about the rest though. Dortmund actually has a monetary interest in keeping Sancho for another year since the prices will probably rise again until the 2022 window. You don't want to sell ypur biggest assets when the prices are at their lowest. And I also believe Sancho's desire to move to United is exaggerated. If you get him or not, it's unlikely that you will contend for any big titles in short to mid term. He also seems genuinely happy at the BVB and he'll be able to negotiate a better salary after covid, too.

Everything can happen, I guess we just have to wait.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yes, the financial part is pretty straightforward. There's a set price and it's clear after last year that there won't be any extensive negotiations by Dortmund.

I'm unsure about the rest though. Dortmund actually has a monetary interest in keeping Sancho for another year since the prices will probably rise again until the 2022 window. You don't want to sell ypur biggest assets when the prices are at their lowest. And I also believe Sancho's desire to move to United is exaggerated. If you get him or not, it's unlikely that you will contend for any big titles in short to mid term. He also seems genuinely happy at the BVB and he'll be able to negotiate a better salary after covid, too.

Everything can happen, I guess we just have to wait.

I don't see how these can be logically true. The player has wanted a move for two years running now having a gentleman's agreement to leave this summer. He may have enjoyed his time there thus far but players who are now genuinely happy at their clubs don't want to leave, get severely impacted by a move not falling not through and also enter into a verbal agreement to be allowed to go next summer. That's a player who wants out. He just seems to be a level headed bloke who doesn't want to do something harsh enough to jeapordise what he has. But based on all these noises, this is a player who will get his move this summer.

And Dortmund aren't going to get a better fee than they will summer. Sancho is not renewing and time is running out on his contract. This is a highly optimistic view that Dortmund could possibly get even more year for him. This is the best they can do it and all parties know it.

 

[Zehner]

I don't see how these can be logically true. The player has wanted a move for two years running now having a gentleman's agreement to leave this summer. He may have enjoyed his time there thus far but players who are now genuinely happy at their clubs don't want to leave, get severely impacted by a move not falling not through and also enter into a verbal agreement to be allowed to go next summer. That's a player who wants out. He just seems to be a level headed bloke who doesn't want to do something harsh enough to jeapordise what he has. But based on all these noises, this is a player who will get his move this summer.

And Dortmund aren't going to get a better fee than they will summer. Sancho is not renewing and time is running out on his contract. This is a highly optimistic view that Dortmund could possibly get even more year for him. This is the best they can do it and all parties know it.

Yes, exactly, a gentlemen's agreement And this agreement also covers the scenario that nobody can bid as much as Dortmund wants, in fact it's actually a quite likely scenario when paying attention to all the noises coming from elite clubs regarding their financial situation. Sancho knows fully well that he couldend up at Dortmund for another season based on said agreement.

And yes, a player that wants to move usually gets his move at some point. But we're in a covid market. Those stories of players pushing for a move are usually incentivized by huge demand for the player. But so far you're the only club in for him according to the reports. That's not a good situation to negotiate a high salary (note that reports had it your first offer was below what he currently earns at Dortmund, who nowadays also pay wages in the 8 digit range) and chances are that the clubs he really wants to move can't afford him this season. If he wants to challenge for the CL and league titles, chances are that no club who can offer him those things immediately tried to sign him as of now. If you ask me, he'd be interested in joining United but not enough to make a fuss about it. And he's luckier at Dortmund than people are willing to believe, too. Probably annoyed that covid postpones his move but he can wait at Dortmund until a great offer comes in and with every year he waits his next salary will go up.

 

[FreddieTheReddie]

Dortmund actually has a monetary interest in keeping Sancho for another year since the prices will probably rise again until the 2022 window.

He will only have one year left of his contract, Dortmund won’t get a higher fee next year. Espacially if he will start the season in bad form like last autumn after the failed transfer. They don’t want to keep him unhappy any longer. And I can’t believe they could get more than €80m even after pandemic when he has only one year left.

 

[RkkMan]

Yes, the financial part is pretty straightforward. There's a set price and it's clear after last year that there won't be any extensive negotiations by Dortmund.

I'm unsure about the rest though. Dortmund actually has a monetary interest in keeping Sancho for another year since the prices will probably rise again until the 2022 window. You don't want to sell ypur biggest assets when the prices are at their lowest. And I also believe Sancho's desire to move to United is exaggerated. If you get him or not, it's unlikely that you will contend for any big titles in short to mid term. He also seems genuinely happy at the BVB and he'll be able to negotiate a better salary after covid, too.

Everything can happen, I guess we just have to wait.

You sounded pretty certain last year that his price would improve this year because of the possibility of fans coming back and good performances on the pitch increasing his price tag as well as a "bidding war" happening but here we are. Even if he was to stay another year it's extremely optimistic to think he'll generate a record fee with just one year left on his contract. It's all nothing but hypotheticals which can be bad for business and that mindset has already cost BVB €20-30m of his price tag. Yes they won't sell him completely cheap but I think this time BVB will allow a small scope of negotiation for his price tag(add ons and bonuses being used for example) it serves their best interests more to get maximum value now than *hope pieces fall in place in a year which has already backfired once
Also not sure why you think BVB have monetary reasons for keeping Sancho when they've been publicly saying he can go for the Right price? That logic makes more sense the way they talk about Haaland whom they've been adamant IS NOT FOR SALE
And I think you're selling Utd EXTREMELY short. Yes we still have a way to go before we're challenging for big titles week in week out but we've made progress in a unique manner we've never done post Fergie era and as a young player he'd relish being part of a young team that takes Utd back to the top in the very near future having the right project can attract good players even if you're not up there look at Liverpool with Klopp and the players they got during their rebuild including beating City to sign VVD who were set for a title that year. Also there are several players at Utd he already has a close relationship with or will bond very well with based on his "trendy" personality(Rashford, AWB, Greenwood, Maguire, Pogba, Bruno, Cavani) and he had many friends in Manchester due to his stint at City so Utd would be an extremely good destination with him being keen to return to England.

 

[Zehner]

He will only have one year left of his contract, Dortmund won’t get a higher fee next year. Espacially if he will start the season in bad form like last autumn after the failed transfer. They don’t want to keep him unhappy any longer. And I can’t believe they could get more than €80m even after pandemic when he has only one year left.

Hazard moved for 140m € with one year left on the contract. If there's a race for the signature of a player, the years on his contract don't really play that much of a role because clubs want to secure him anyway. The contract won't run out anyway. Game theory. In a recovering market, he'll go for over 80m € even with only one year remaining, make no mistake.

 

[cyberman]

Yes, the financial part is pretty straightforward. There's a set price and it's clear after last year that there won't be any extensive negotiations by Dortmund.

I'm unsure about the rest though. Dortmund actually has a monetary interest in keeping Sancho for another year since the prices will probably rise again until the 2022 window. You don't want to sell ypur biggest assets when the prices are at their lowest. And I also believe Sancho's desire to move to United is exaggerated. If you get him or not, it's unlikely that you will contend for any big titles in short to mid term. He also seems genuinely happy at the BVB and he'll be able to negotiate a better salary after covid, too.

Everything can happen, I guess we just have to wait.

We were told prices would be normalised by the time this summer came around. I was lectrured by German fans about how every top club would be in for Sancho who couldn't wait to bid 120m.
Now theyre selling at a discount. Prices arent going back to what they were.

 

[cyberman]

Hazard moved for 140m € with one year left on the contract. If there's a race for the signature of a player, the years on his contract don't really play that much of a role because clubs want to secure him anyway. The contract won't run out anyway. Game theory. In a recovering market, he'll go for over 80m € even with only one year remaining, make no mistake.

There wasnt 1 year left in reality. Hazard said he would sign a new contract at Chelsea if Madrid didnt sign him that summer so he never really had 12 months left.

 

[romufc]

Hazard moved for 140m € with one year left on the contract. If there's a race for the signature of a player, the years on his contract don't really play that much of a role because clubs want to secure him anyway. The contract won't run out anyway. Game theory. In a recovering market, he'll go for over 80m € even with only one year remaining, make no mistake.

Yes and the market also learns from mistakes. I am sure everyone has learnt from the Hazard mistake.

In football, there is always new talents coming through, every season that goes by, the cheaper the player will be because of his contract. If clubs have waited 2/3 years for Sancho, they will easily wait another year for his contract to expire.

 

[romufc]

We were told prices would be normalised by the time this summer came around. I was lectrured by German fans about how every top club would be in for Sancho who couldn't wait to bid 120m.
Now theyre selling at a discount. Prices arent going back to what they were.

Exactly this.

We heard last summer from fans saying oh there will be a bidding war this summer for Sancho with Barca, Real, Chelsea, Liverpool, Juve all involved.. looks like none of that has materialised.

What we do know is you cannot predict anything, in a season there could be another talent break out and he is the hot property. I.e Haaland this summer.

 

[Zehner]

You sounded pretty certain last year that his price would improve this year because of the possibility of fans coming back and good performances on the pitch increasing his price tag as well as a "bidding war" happening but here we are. Even if he was to stay another year it's extremely optimistic to think he'll generate a record fee with just one year left on his contract. It's all nothing but hypotheticals which can be bad for business and that mindset has already cost BVB €20-30m of his price tag. Yes they won't sell him completely cheap but I think this time BVB will allow a small scope of negotiation for his price tag(add ons and bonuses being used for example) it serves their best interests more to get maximum value now than *hope pieces fall in place in a year which has already backfired once
Also not sure why you think BVB have monetary reasons for keeping Sancho when they've been publicly saying he can go for the Right price? That logic makes more sense the way they talk about Haaland whom they've been adamant IS NOT FOR SALE
And I think you're selling Utd EXTREMELY short. Yes we still have a way to go before we're challenging for big titles week in week out but we've made progress in a unique manner we've never done post Fergie era and as a young player he'd relish being part of a young team that takes Utd back to the top in the very near future having the right project can attract good players even if you're not up there look at Liverpool with Klopp and the players they got during their rebuild including beating City to sign VVD who were set for a title that year. Also there are several players at Utd he already has a close relationship with or will bond very well with based on his "trendy" personality(Rashford, AWB, Greenwood, Maguire, Pogba, Bruno, Cavani) and he had many friends in Manchester due to his stint at City so Utd would be an extremely good destination with him being keen to return to England.

Yes, I didn't expect the pandemic to last that long. I still was right with what I wrote, wasn't I? Dortmund won't sell below their asking price and it'll be the same this year. I even said that when there'll be no acceptable offer in 2021, they can also wait until 2022. Also, they'll be happy to have his value decreased by 20m this year because they definitely got more than 20m out of him.

Regarding United: You're developing well and have a very promising squad and Sancho might be friends with many of the players, especially Rashford, but in the end footballers play for trophies and no offens, but from the outside it doesn't seem as if you're particularly close to contending for one. The benchmarks have changed, City is having a relatively poor league season and still finishing 10+ points before the second place. Chelsea is developing brillantly and Liverpool will most likely bounce back after an outlier season, too. From Sancho's perspective, it might be tempting to wait for one of those clubs to be interested in him instead of binding himself to United long term.

By the way, I'm not trying to belittle United or anything. But people in here seem very certain he'll join you this summer and my perspective is very different to that, so I'm sharing it.

 

[cyberman]

Exactly this.

We heard last summer from fans saying oh there will be a bidding war this summer for Sancho with Barca, Real, Chelsea, Liverpool, Juve all involved.. looks like none of that has materialised.

What we do know is you cannot predict anything, in a season there could be another talent break out and he is the hot property. I.e Haaland this summer.

Not only that but a fecking super league was formed in the meantime because big clubs panicked over their finances so it's safe to say there is feck all money about

 

[RkkMan]

Yes, I didn't expect the pandemic to last that long. I still was right with what I wrote, wasn't I? Dortmund won't sell below their asking price and it'll be the same this year. I even said that when there'll be no acceptable offer in 2021, they can also wait until 2022. Also, they'll be happy to have his value decreased by 20m this year because they definitely got more than 20m out of him.

Regarding United: You're developing well and have a very promising squad and Sancho might be friends with many of the players, especially Rashford, but in the end footballers play for trophies and no offens, but from the outside it doesn't seem as if you're particularly close to contending for one. The benchmarks have changed, City is having a relatively poor league season and still finishing 10+ points before the second place. Chelsea is developing brillantly and Liverpool will most likely bounce back after an outlier season, too. From Sancho's perspective, it might be tempting to wait for one of those clubs to be interested in him instead of binding himself to United long term.

By the way, I'm not trying to belittle United or anything. But people in here seem very certain he'll join you this summer and my perspective is very different to that, so I'm sharing it.

Yes you were right BVB wouldn't sell below you're asking Price and fair play you'll be right again this year only I think someone will match it(likely Utd) after a scope of negotiation. Yes they may well wait till 2022 if nobody pays what they want but I don't see a scenario where say if the price tag is €85-90m they reject €70/75/80m up front with the rest covered by achievable/realistic add ons and bonuses because they want everything paid immediately they know in this market it'll be risky rejecting a huge guaranteed fee again hoping for something bigger whilst using the logic of exceptional circumstances like Hazard which are exceptions for a reason.
You're right some of the underperforming teams will be better but going by that logic you could equally say Utd who finished 2nd when EVERYBODY ruled them out of a top 4 finish off the back of a summer where Cavani was their only "starting 11 signing" could equally make that jump with at least 2 new signings? If we got 2nd with just Cavani imagine Sancho plus a CB and possibly a DM??

 

[DomM]

Would you be happy with Sancho arriving if it meant Pogba being sold?

 

[Rolaholic]

Would he choose us over Chelsea? I am sure both clubs can fork out the 80-odd million for him, which will probably be the final transfer price.

Serious question?

 

[Swarm]

Yes you were right BVB wouldn't sell below you're asking Price and fair play you'll be right again this year only I think someone will match it(likely Utd) after a scope of negotiation. Yes they may well wait till 2022 if nobody pays what they want but I don't see a scenario where say if the price tag is €85-90m they reject €70/75/80m up front with the rest covered by achievable/realistic add ons and bonuses because they want everything paid immediately they know in this market it'll be risky rejecting a huge guaranteed fee again hoping for something bigger whilst using the logic of exceptional circumstances like Hazard which are exceptions for a reason.
You're right some of the underperforming teams will be better but going by that logic you could equally say Utd who finished 2nd when EVERYBODY ruled them out of a top 4 finish off the back of a summer where Cavani was their only "starting 11 signing" could equally make that jump with at least 2 new signings? If we got 2nd with just Cavani imagine Sancho plus a CB and possibly a DM??

I'm just quoting your post as the most recent example and I think you mostly make sensible points.

What I feel a lot of commenters are misunderstanding is that Dortmund is not and was not keeping Sancho in hopes of his value in the market increasing (that would be nonsensical, with his contract running down transfer fees will naturally be reduced). They want to keep him because he is a world class player and can be very important to the teams performance. At that point the management has to decide whether the reduction in incoming transfer funds is worth keeping a player that they simply can not replace in equal quality. In these discussions it always seems like the sporting side does not matter to Dortmund and they just want to make as much money as possible, which is simply not the case. They need to ensure sporting success in the short term as well.

Personally I expect Sancho to move to Manchester United this summer window. I do however believe, that they will have to meet Dortmund's demands, otherwise he will stay for another year which I am pretty sure they would be very happy about in Dortmund. The reason Sancho is on the market in the first place is because of the often quoted "gentlemen's agreement" to let him move if the right offer comes in. This way Sancho can't be too annoyed at Dortmund and is less likely to kick up a fuss if the transfer falls through. Dortmund's readiness to allow for their players to move is also quite important in convincing world-class talents to come here, because they can expect to get a fair chance at a transfer once Dortmund's demands are met. It might not mean that Dortmund would not rather keep the player, but it might be necessary for squad hygiene.

 

[thegregster]

Not only that but a fecking super league was formed in the meantime because big clubs panicked over their finances so it's safe to say there is feck all money about

Plus it's not 100% certain that fans can attend all next season at full capacity. The vaccines are working very well and should end the pandemic but clubs will have to factor the risk of a winter lockdown.

 

[bosnian_red]

Would you be happy with Sancho arriving if it meant Pogba being sold?

Yeah. Pogba doesn't play in any of the midfield 3 positions for us. Pogba staying means we still need a right winger, we still need to fix our midfield 2, and we still need a CB and RB depth. Pogba leaving doesn't change any of that. Sancho coming sorts out our RW and attacking balance/creativity issues. He'll provide Pogba's creativity in the attack, while being a lot more natural of an attacker, more pace, and can play either wing so Rashford can play on the left with no issues (and helping out Wan Bissaka now as we'll have a creative player on that wing now).

Basically, Pogba is a very good player right now who does a decent job at balancing out our attackers in terms of having a creative player to compliment the striker and other wing being scorers, but he forces our most dynamic player out to the right wing where he is half the player, and he puts way more pressure on Shaw to go up and down the left wing. Shaws form has dropped since Pogba took over the left wing as well IMO.

The biggest upgrade to our squad would be signing a qualify defensive mid, playing Pogba as the #8 and rotating as the 10 to occasionally rest Bruno (and Fred coming in midfield), while signing Sancho to play on the right and rotate the front 3 between Rashford, Sancho, Cavani, Greenwood and Martial.

 

[2ndTouch]

Serious question?

Isn't he from London?

 

[samolocix]

I want him sorted as soon as window opens, but who is gonna make the transfer happen ?
Woodward is off after the season and we dont know his successor yet, hmm

 

[Rolaholic]

Isn't he from London?

Yes but that rarely ever has any bearing on where players sign, same goes for any boyhood allegiances.

There's nothing the Blues can offer that United cannot match and there's not nearly as much competition in attack at United as there is at Chelsea who've already got numerous big money signings at his positions.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Good. Just hope there’s no fecking about this time. The groundwork was laid last season so fingers crossed this gets wrapped up early.

 

[Zehner]

Yes you were right BVB wouldn't sell below you're asking Price and fair play you'll be right again this year only I think someone will match it(likely Utd) after a scope of negotiation. Yes they may well wait till 2022 if nobody pays what they want but I don't see a scenario where say if the price tag is €85-90m they reject €70/75/80m up front with the rest covered by achievable/realistic add ons and bonuses because they want everything paid immediately they know in this market it'll be risky rejecting a huge guaranteed fee again hoping for something bigger whilst using the logic of exceptional circumstances like Hazard which are exceptions for a reason.
You're right some of the underperforming teams will be better but going by that logic you could equally say Utd who finished 2nd when EVERYBODY ruled them out of a top 4 finish off the back of a summer where Cavani was their only "starting 11 signing" could equally make that jump with at least 2 new signings? If we got 2nd with just Cavani imagine Sancho plus a CB and possibly a DM??

I believe the misunderstanding in here is that you believe Dortmund want to sell. If they could get their way without having to worry about what they promised the player, he wouldn't be on the market at all. They really want to keep him.

Regarding United: I usually try to keep out of these kind of topics since people react very sensitive to criticism from "opponent" posters but if you ask me, it's not about squad quality. The thinking that you sign a player to overcome a weakness (like chance creation or conceding) is an outdated way of looking at things, IMO. With Guardiola and Klopp staying, I fully expect at least one of the two to hit 90+ points next season again. And I also think Chelsea will be up there under Tuchel. Those three teams as a collective are insanely strong. They have players with already insane quality punching above their weight. Not because they have better individuals than you but because they display a different level of organization, structure and systemization than you. No individual player can close that kind of gap. Call me a nerd but based on the xG stats, you were already a bit lucky to finish second this season. And it's not like you would just need to reproduce your current level, you'd need to increase it by the odd 15+ points. So without any intention to provoke or belittle United, I don't think you're currently a good choice for a player who wants to win titles immediately. You're on the right track but there's still a long way ahead of you and probably a few downs you have to go through before you'll eventuall challenge again.

People in here were really underwhelmed by Mkhitaryan and Kagawa. I feel a similar thing will happen if Sancho joins - not to the same extent but still to some. Because no matter how good those players are, their performances are always amplified by playing for a team with a clear attacking plan, patterns of play and organization.

Now, I'm not Sancho and of course you can still land this transfer. But I do think this plays a role and he would've been pushing more for a move if you were in a better situation or if a club comes calling which can offer him trophies almost immediately.

 

[united_99]

A better salary? Who are those clubs who will pay him more than United? He is apparently on around EUR 190 k currently, United will probably offer him something between 200-250k £. Chelsea or Liverpool aren’t going to offer him (significantly) more than that anyway.
If he wants more than that he can join PSG (or City who can pay more under the radar - but they didn’t want him).

 

[Mihai]

Yes, the financial part is pretty straightforward. There's a set price and it's clear after last year that there won't be any extensive negotiations by Dortmund.

I'm unsure about the rest though. Dortmund actually has a monetary interest in keeping Sancho for another year since the prices will probably rise again until the 2022 window. You don't want to sell ypur biggest assets when the prices are at their lowest. And I also believe Sancho's desire to move to United is exaggerated. If you get him or not, it's unlikely that you will contend for any big titles in short to mid term. He also seems genuinely happy at the BVB and he'll be able to negotiate a better salary after covid, too.

Everything can happen, I guess we just have to wait.

The bolded might be true if BVB intend to cash in and not reinvest.

 

[united_99]

I believe the misunderstanding in here is that you believe Dortmund want to sell. If they could get their way without having to worry about what they promised the player, he wouldn't be on the market at all. They really want to keep him.

Regarding United: I usually try to keep out of these kind of topics since people react very sensitive to criticism from "opponent" posters but if you ask me, it's not about squad quality. The thinking that you sign a player to overcome a weakness (like chance creation or conceding) is an outdated way of looking at things, IMO. With Guardiola and Klopp staying, I fully expect at least one of the two to hit 90+ points next season again. And I also think Chelsea will be up there under Tuchel. Those three teams as a collective are insanely strong. They have players with already insane quality punching above their weight. Not because they have better individuals than you but because they display a different level of organization, structure and systemization than you. No individual player can close that kind of gap. Call me a nerd but based on the xG stats, you were already a bit lucky to finish second this season. And it's not like you would just need to reproduce your current level, you'd need to increase it by the odd 15+ points. So without any intention to provoke or belittle United, I don't think you're currently a good choice for a player who wants to win titles immediately. You're on the right track but there's still a long way ahead of you and probably a few downs you have to go through before you'll eventuall challenge again.

People in here were really underwhelmed by Mkhitaryan and Kagawa. I feel a similar thing will happen if Sancho joins - not to the same extent but still to some. Because no matter how good those players are, their performances are always amplified by playing for a team with a clear attacking plan, patterns of play and organization.

Now, I'm not Sancho and of course you can still land this transfer. But I do think this plays a role and he would've been pushing more for a move if you were in a better situation or if a club comes calling which can offer him trophies almost immediately.

Well I am not shocked you rate the Bundesliga managers (two of them still fighting for top 4) that highly.
But we already know you write what you want to happen and present them as facts.

Finally Sancho is 21 not 31. He is not going to look into some supposed models or past or potential future xG for the next 2-3 years before making a decision on the team he would like to join.
If he did Chelsea with their ever present manager changing habit would be his last option. So if he joins Chelsea it won’t be because of Tuchel or his defensive system anyway but rather because he would prefer living in London.

 

[hubbuh]

Why on Earth would Chelsea blow 80 odd million on Sancho when they already have Pulisic, Hudson-Odoi, Ziyech, and Werner for wide positions? They urgently need a striker.

 

[theklr]

Up to us

 

[bosskeano]

We have to be a bit concerned by Chelsea getting involved in the transfer for Sancho. Tuchel is a huge admirer of his and if chelsea get involved, it could easily drive up the price and take him out of what the Glazers would be willing to spend. We know the Russian has deep pockets and isn't afraid to spend money so hopefully we can get a deal done quickly before they express serious interest.

 

[Boavista]

Well I am not shocked you rate the Bundesliga managers (two of them still fighting for top 4) that highly.
But we already know you write what you want to happen and present them as facts.

Finally Sancho is 21 not 31. He is not going to look into some supposed models or past or potential future xG for the next 2-3 years before making a decision on the team he would like to join.
If he did Chelsea with their ever present manager changing habit would be his last option. So if he joins Chelsea it won’t be because of Tuchel or his defensive system anyway but rather because he would prefer living in London.

It's not exactly controversial to rate Guardiola and Klopp highly. Despite Klopp's poor season this year. Fair enough if you don't want to include Tuchel in that bracket yet, but I think it's pretty clear he's also a manager who puts a lot of emphasis on the team as a collective, which in turn benefits the individual players.

I also don't think Chelsea will pursue Sancho, unless they plan to sell Ziyech and another player. But them reaching the Champions League final would definitely help their argument if they did try to sign him. And I wouldn't call Tuchel's system defensive just because that's what he's focussed on after joining mid season. His team is obviously intent on dominating possession, and defensively they keep quite a high line in a lot of matches. So far their attacking still leaves a little to be desired, but that doesn't mean his system is defensive necessarily.

I believe the misunderstanding in here is that you believe Dortmund want to sell. If they could get their way without having to worry about what they promised the player, he wouldn't be on the market at all. They really want to keep him.

Regarding United: I usually try to keep out of these kind of topics since people react very sensitive to criticism from "opponent" posters but if you ask me, it's not about squad quality. The thinking that you sign a player to overcome a weakness (like chance creation or conceding) is an outdated way of looking at things, IMO. With Guardiola and Klopp staying, I fully expect at least one of the two to hit 90+ points next season again. And I also think Chelsea will be up there under Tuchel. Those three teams as a collective are insanely strong. They have players with already insane quality punching above their weight. Not because they have better individuals than you but because they display a different level of organization, structure and systemization than you. No individual player can close that kind of gap. Call me a nerd but based on the xG stats, you were already a bit lucky to finish second this season. And it's not like you would just need to reproduce your current level, you'd need to increase it by the odd 15+ points. So without any intention to provoke or belittle United, I don't think you're currently a good choice for a player who wants to win titles immediately. You're on the right track but there's still a long way ahead of you and probably a few downs you have to go through before you'll eventuall challenge again.

People in here were really underwhelmed by Mkhitaryan and Kagawa. I feel a similar thing will happen if Sancho joins - not to the same extent but still to some. Because no matter how good those players are, their performances are always amplified by playing for a team with a clear attacking plan, patterns of play and organization.

Now, I'm not Sancho and of course you can still land this transfer. But I do think this plays a role and he would've been pushing more for a move if you were in a better situation or if a club comes calling which can offer him trophies almost immediately.

I think there's a good chance Sancho wants to move to United, not least because they might be the only club really in for him. The question is, is United willing and capable of meeting Dortmund's price. I also think he, and Dortmund obviously, could live with staying in Germany another year if no deal goes through.

I fully agree with the rest of your comment. On here there's always so much focus on transfers to improve the team. New defensive midfielder, winger, centre back and United will challenge for the league. Adding player x to the team should add 15 goals to the team, which turns all these draws into wins etc.. And who knows, maybe that could be true, but in my opinion it's way too simple.

When a player joins and doesn't succeed, it's always just down to the player not being good enough. Or that player was a system player, as if that's necessarily a bad thing. Of course some players can perform well regardless of the system, but I don't think it's that helpful to expect them to because ideally you want your team to have a system in place that brings the best out of players. I'm not saying United don't have that now, but managers like Klopp or Guardiola generally do better in that area.

 

[JustinC00]

We have to be a bit concerned by Chelsea

no

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We have to be a bit concerned by Chelsea getting involved in the transfer for Sancho. Tuchel is a huge admirer of his and if chelsea get involved, it could easily drive up the price and take him out of what the Glazers would be willing to spend. We know the Russian has deep pockets and isn't afraid to spend money so hopefully we can get a deal done quickly before they express serious interest.

Imagine Chelsea bagging him after all the links to us. Mass muppet suicide

 

[SATA]

Hope we get this done early before the Euros and we can move on to Harry Kane. Actually maybe not, Varane or Kounde seem more like it after Jadon

 

[cyberman]

Hope we get this done early before the Euros and we can move on to Harry Kane. Actually maybe not, Varane or Kounde seem more like it after Jadon

Itll get rolling after the final imo. Just feels like one of those quick transfers this time around

 

[Gasolin]

It's not exactly controversial to rate Guardiola and Klopp highly. Despite Klopp's poor season this year. Fair enough if you don't want to include Tuchel in that bracket yet, but I think it's pretty clear he's also a manager who puts a lot of emphasis on the team as a collective, which in turn benefits the individual players.

I also don't think Chelsea will pursue Sancho, unless they plan to sell Ziyech and another player. But them reaching the Champions League final would definitely help their argument if they did try to sign him. And I wouldn't call Tuchel's system defensive just because that's what he's focussed on after joining mid season. His team is obviously intent on dominating possession, and defensively they keep quite a high line in a lot of matches. So far their attacking still leaves a little to be desired, but that doesn't mean his system is defensive necessarily.


I think there's a good chance Sancho wants to move to United, not least because they might be the only club really in for him. The question is, is United willing and capable of meeting Dortmund's price. I also think he, and Dortmund obviously, could live with staying in Germany another year if no deal goes through.

I fully agree with the rest of your comment. On here there's always so much focus on transfers to improve the team. New defensive midfielder, winger, centre back and United will challenge for the league. Adding player x to the team should add 15 goals to the team, which turns all these draws into wins etc.. And who knows, maybe that could be true, but in my opinion it's way too simple.

When a player joins and doesn't succeed, it's always just down to the player not being good enough. Or that player was a system player, as if that's necessarily a bad thing. Of course some players can perform well regardless of the system, but I don't think it's that helpful to expect them to because ideally you want your team to have a system in place that brings the best out of players. I'm not saying United don't have that now, but managers like Klopp or Guardiola generally do better in that area.

But in a way, it is that simple in the case of United. A little like Bruno coming in and fitting a system because it was already designed to work that way, but only struggling because Lingard and Andreas Pereira couldn't execute on the role. We have a structure. We just try to be a bit more unpredictable. A player like Sancho would fill one of the position where the right player would make the system work. And for us, it's someone who can keep the ball better when attacking, to complement technically gifted players who play very much in first intentions like Bruno, Rashford, even Pogba to a certain extend. With those players, the ball is a bit like a hot potato they control. We need someone to act like a ball magnet. Amad has that profile but is young. Sancho has that profile. I think it will benefit United.

Does that mean that it's the only upgrade needed? No. Squad depth is a big deal and we are still struggling in that aspect, but one step at a time. We have an astute manager , so that's also something that helps in a situation like ours where we can't just demand more players.

 

[Boavista]

But in a way, it is that simple in the case of United. A little like Bruno coming in and fitting a system because it was already designed to work that way, but only struggling because Lingard and Andreas Pereira couldn't execute on the role. We have a structure. We just try to be a bit more unpredictable. A player like Sancho would fill one of the position where the right player would make the system work. And for us, it's someone who can keep the ball better when attacking, to complement technically gifted players who play very much in first intentions like Bruno, Rashford, even Pogba to a certain extend. With those players, the ball is a bit like a hot potato they control. We need someone to act like a ball magnet. Amad has that profile but is young. Sancho has that profile. I think it will benefit United.

Does that mean that it's the only upgrade needed? No. Squad depth is a big deal and we are still struggling in that aspect, but one step at a time. We have an astute manager , so that's also something that helps in a situation like ours where we can't just demand more players.

Fair enough, obviously United have some holes that need to be filled and signing better players in those positions would improve the team. I have no doubt Sancho would make United a better team. But that's not really what I meant. I just think there's a limit to how good a team can become when the main focus is on how good the players are. United have a good manager, but I can't see them become as dominant across a league season the way City or Liverpool have been in the past few years unless they have an excellent manager.

 

[Zehner]

It's not exactly controversial to rate Guardiola and Klopp highly. Despite Klopp's poor season this year. Fair enough if you don't want to include Tuchel in that bracket yet, but I think it's pretty clear he's also a manager who puts a lot of emphasis on the team as a collective, which in turn benefits the individual players.

I also don't think Chelsea will pursue Sancho, unless they plan to sell Ziyech and another player. But them reaching the Champions League final would definitely help their argument if they did try to sign him. And I wouldn't call Tuchel's system defensive just because that's what he's focussed on after joining mid season. His team is obviously intent on dominating possession, and defensively they keep quite a high line in a lot of matches. So far their attacking still leaves a little to be desired, but that doesn't mean his system is defensive necessarily.


I think there's a good chance Sancho wants to move to United, not least because they might be the only club really in for him. The question is, is United willing and capable of meeting Dortmund's price. I also think he, and Dortmund obviously, could live with staying in Germany another year if no deal goes through.

I fully agree with the rest of your comment. On here there's always so much focus on transfers to improve the team. New defensive midfielder, winger, centre back and United will challenge for the league. Adding player x to the team should add 15 goals to the team, which turns all these draws into wins etc.. And who knows, maybe that could be true, but in my opinion it's way too simple.

When a player joins and doesn't succeed, it's always just down to the player not being good enough. Or that player was a system player, as if that's necessarily a bad thing. Of course some players can perform well regardless of the system, but I don't think it's that helpful to expect them to because ideally you want your team to have a system in place that brings the best out of players. I'm not saying United don't have that now, but managers like Klopp or Guardiola generally do better in that area.

I think that's a very reasonable take. It's definitely possible for you to sign him and it's probably the last time you get a relatively free run at him so in your stead, I'd try to convince him at all costs and simply meet Dortmund's asking price as long as you can afford it.

Thanks for arguing my case by the way, I've got the user who quoted me on ignore these days

But in a way, it is that simple in the case of United. A little like Bruno coming in and fitting a system because it was already designed to work that way, but only struggling because Lingard and Andreas Pereira couldn't execute on the role. We have a structure. We just try to be a bit more unpredictable. A player like Sancho would fill one of the position where the right player would make the system work. And for us, it's someone who can keep the ball better when attacking, to complement technically gifted players who play very much in first intentions like Bruno, Rashford, even Pogba to a certain extend. With those players, the ball is a bit like a hot potato they control. We need someone to act like a ball magnet. Amad has that profile but is young. Sancho has that profile. I think it will benefit United.

Does that mean that it's the only upgrade needed? No. Squad depth is a big deal and we are still struggling in that aspect, but one step at a time. We have an astute manager , so that's also something that helps in a situation like ours where we can't just demand more players.

Yes, of course Sancho as a ball magnet would improve your game but that's not the optimum, is it? That would be that every player makes the right decisions and you profit from a system that consistently puts them into situations in which they excel. Synergies. Yet to me, Pogba, Rashford and Bruno sometimes play like they have all the freedom to do what they deem best and it leads to inconsistency. You don't really see patterns of play to the same extent as at City, Liverpool, etc. and that's what defines the next level for me. Moreover, Sancho is used to playing in tactically highly organized teams. There's no guarantee he'd bring in the things you described without said structure to support him. I believe that is also why Kagawa and Mkhitaryan looked like fish out of water when playing for you. I'm probably one of Sancho's biggest admirers on this board, for me he is the best player in the Bundesliga even before Lewandowski, but never underestimate the impact a functioning system has on individual performances. Sancho didn't look nearly as good for England, too, for example.

 

[Judas]

There's no legitimate reason to not get this done very quickly if he's our RW prime target, he's begging to be signed. This has no need to be a saga. Please.