I was referring to Sancho. He's a true wide player in the modern sense. Not Antonio Valencia but miles more comfortable out wide than the likes of Greenwood and Rahsford whose only thought is cut inside and shoot. Sancho is more Ribery, capable of beating you on either side, crossing and playmaking. Apples and oranges.True winger? Spare me. Mbappe is not a winger, he's a forward, but you were creaming over the option to have him play on the right or left.
"True wingers" were LMs and RMs of the likes of Giggs, Figo, Beckham etc. We don't need wingers explicitly, we don't play 4-4-2, this is 2021. The 4-3-3 formation utilizes inverted forwards to great success. What matters is if the players put out there are doing the job needed of them and if they are balancing out the team.
So yes I would sooner play with no "true winger" if that delivers the versatility needed up front instead of 3 right footed players all cramming in on the left.
Superb post.True winger? Spare me. Mbappe is not a winger, he's a forward, but you were creaming over the option to have him play on the right or left.
"True wingers" were LMs and RMs of the likes of Giggs, Figo, Beckham etc. We don't need wingers explicitly, we don't play 4-4-2, this is 2021. The 4-3-3 formation utilizes inverted forwards to great success. What matters is if the players put out there are doing the job needed of them and if they are balancing out the team.
So yes I would sooner play with no "true winger" if that delivers the versatility needed up front instead of 3 right footed players all cramming in on the left.
Who's this midfield conductor though and how would you fit in Pogba if we get him?Superb post.
The width in the game today mainly comes from the fullback. We had wingers in the past who played at a time when the emphasis was to stretch the play on the flanks wiith the likes of Giggs, Blomqvist, Kanchelskis providing width. But as you quite correctly point out, the game has changed now, where the emphasis is on inverted wide forwards, which requires the fullback to provide the width.
I don't look at our attacking 4 and think it's weak, I actually think it has huge potential. But if we look at our team dynamic starting from the first phase of the build up from our back line and midfield to our wide receivers (fullbacks), then that's where I see the big issue in our team. Because there's a disconnect between the aforementioned deeper players and our front 4 imo. So connecting the whole dynamic from back to front should be a priority imo. So signing a CB with the requisite attributes along with a midfielder who has the ability to conduct proceedings and become the conduit where he can be the point of contact for the back line and forwards is very important IMO. We don't have that player in the squad and that needs to change if we're to challenge for the league.
I would sell Pogba because he doesn't fit into the first 11. It would be best for both United and Pogba if he moved on.Who's this midfield conductor though and how would you fit in Pogba if we get him?
Fair. I'm on the fence about Pogba. But right now he doesn't fit into the team without upsetting the balance. I don't see a midfield conductor available that you're talking aboutI would sell Pogba because he doesn't fit into the first 11. It would be best for both United and Pogba if he moved on.
I was referring to Sancho. He's a true wide player in the modern sense. Not Antonio Valencia but miles more comfortable out wide than the likes of Greenwood and Rahsford whose only thought is cut inside and shoot. Sancho is more Ribery, capable of beating you on either side, crossing and playmaking. Apples and oranges.
And no the 433 doesn't work with who we have. I'm confident we won't win the league with three 9.5s uptop. There's no balance in it.
I can drop numerous names here, but will say that Marcelo Brozovic from Inter has the profile to link the play via his precise passing and can change the point of attack and has superb spatial awareness. I don't know if he's attainable, but his ability to thread the lines from a deeper role is very good and would be a huge improvement over McFred.Fair. I'm on the fence about Pogba. But right now he doesn't fit into the team without upsetting the balance. I don't see a midfield conductor available that you're talking about
I don't know if he's attainable
Agreed. I love Pogba, he's simply not good enough to dictate the formation. Like you said, sell Pogba and buy a versatile CM that can do a better job of connecting the forwards and back line.I would sell Pogba because he doesn't fit into the first 11. It would be best for both United and Pogba if he moved on.
It's not the right thread for it, but I'm seeing plenty of selling Pogba and zero suggestions in here, yet nothing on how we replace the massive gaping hole he'd leave behind in terms of creation and just genuine quality with the ball.
Great points. Agree 100%. And I think this is also why he has been all hype but nobody has paid the cash, yet. Hope we won't be the fools that will overpay for him.There's no point raising this topic in the Sancho thread as every second post is a 'Happy Sancho Day' one and don't necessarily feel that a rational discussion can be covered there. Here's my thought process around the whole Sancho saga. Initially, I was a bit skeptical around the 100 million numbers being quoted and was relatively confident that we'll get him for figures quoted for Havertz i.e. 90 million including add-ons.
The more the saga has went on, the more people seem to be convinced that Sancho is absolutely worth it and is the answer to all our problems. In my opinion, Sancho was never going to be the only missing piece and we had to sign 2-3 first team quality players to get near challenging. With the pressure rising on the board, there's a good chance that we might succumb and pay the full fee (assuming Dortmund accept) which would leave us in a precarious position towards other weaker positions. Similar to when Pogba was signed, I expect Sancho to be a good player in the short term without having the groundbreaking impact that suddenly makes us challengers. I don't think even the most ardent advocate of Sancho's signing would disagree with this. Naturally, we can't just consider the short term as he might be a longer term signing. There arises another of my doubts considering that we need short term improvements as well. Now let me point out some facts which outline my skepticism:
Some other points raised in other threads include a lack of options for RW apart from Sancho. I refuse to buy this argument because if Sancho is the only option in the world then why do we have scouts. A 10 year old playing FIFA could tell us who to sign.
- A potential 100 million player is still not first choice for England and hasn't really sparkled when given the chance
- His stats are exceptional but Bundesliga stats can go the Mkhitaryan way or the Aubameyang way. But the element of uncertainty still persists
- There are disciplinary issues which led him to being dropped last year
- In general, 100 plus million players have rarely been particularly successful signings for anyone
I know that there are advocates of buy one world class 100 million than 3 average 30 million player arguments are there and I'm one of them too. I just don't think that Sancho should be worth this much and if we were to sign him, I could already visualize the extra scrutiny that would be there on him and how journalists would be dying to declare him a flop. A start like Havertz for him would be fodder for clickbaits all through the season.
Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic and he might turn out to be the world beater he's made out to be. I'm just not sold on the risk associated with it and the impact it will have on the player fees for our future prospects. I think being financially prudent and successful in the market aren't mutually exclusive and we should try to find cheaper alternatives. Currently, even if we find a decent rotation option for Greenwood/Rashford in the range of sub-50 million, we should be good.
TL;DR: Not convinced that we should spend 100 million on Sancho. Cheaper alternatives should be looked at.
It's not the right thread for it, but I'm seeing plenty of selling Pogba and zero suggestions in here, yet nothing on how we replace the massive gaping hole he'd leave behind in terms of creation and just genuine quality with the ball.
Pogba is quality but he is inconsistent, and if anything we need consistency. So, as a matter of fact - if we can sell him for a good price ( a huge "if") and can buy one of the SEVERAL midfielders in premier league who are consistent and great fit for us, we will be much better off. Whether we can do the latter is also a sizable "if".It's not the right thread for it, but I'm seeing plenty of selling Pogba and zero suggestions in here, yet nothing on how we replace the massive gaping hole he'd leave behind in terms of creation and just genuine quality with the ball.
Well it was reported by just about everyone that we already agreed terms with his camp, it was agreement on the fee with the club that proved difficult.
The big difference now is that Dortmund are actually open to selling compared to when they were blustering weekly about holding onto him last year. They're doing that regarding Haaland this time while they've publicly opened the door for a Sancho sale at the same time
COVID started since around February last year.Widely reported we had the deal in place before covid hit and we had to renegotiate the deal.
And we apparently had the deal tied up before then. Remember the height of Chelsea v Utd for his signature and it suddenly stopped?COVID started since around February last year.
If those rumors are true, i stand corrected then.And we apparently had the deal tied up before then. Remember the height of Chelsea v Utd for his signature and it suddenly stopped?
If we believe the same reporters who were driving this story, of course.
No one should suggest Grealish over Sancho then. Grealish hasn't played on the right in years yet people want us to sign him to play there.I agree with you mate and even one of our coaches at National youth level has said the same. You don't sign a player who is clearly best suited to play on the left for a huge fee and shunt him on the right. I want us to sign him for our left side.
Tbh with you, I would take either for the left.No one should suggest Grealish over Sancho then. Grealish hasn't played on the right in years yet people want us to sign him to play there.
I disagree. There's never one problem. The caf has decided that this defensive midfielder will suddenly provide is everything. Even fix the right side of our attack somehow which is never going to happen by taking shortcuts.I know who you were referring to but I'm pointing the hypocrisy of the "no true wingers" argument when you mentioned you'd quite happily take a forward there if he's of the right quality. That's because the whole "no true wingers" argument is bogus.
Works fine and dandy that's why we're on course for our best league finish in a while. And we also have a pure 9 upfront in Cavani. Again I don't see where this "three 9.5s uptop" argument comes from. We have one 9 with two inside forwards. Plenty of teams play that way with no problems. Pretty balanced in my book.
Our team is failing to push on to the next level of being title challengers, because of lack of quality in CM/DM and because of conceding way too many goals from set pieces (while scoring way too few from them). We're also too lopsided because only Shaw can offer decent support and link-up from our 2 fullbacks. AWB while decent defensively is not offering any threat down the right and never overlaps Greenwood. So all our attacks come down the left and we are more predictable. Finally we are too dependent on Maguire, although we've been lucky this season that he hasn't had any injuries till the end.
These are our issues and not our attackers at the moment.
Same question for you. Who will give us creativity, class and control from the right next year? Which fullback are we spending big on then?Superb post.
The width in the game today mainly comes from the fullback. We had wingers in the past who played at a time when the emphasis was to stretch the play on the flanks wiith the likes of Giggs, Blomqvist, Kanchelskis providing width. But as you quite correctly point out, the game has changed now, where the emphasis is on inverted wide forwards, which requires the fullback to provide the width.
I don't look at our attacking 4 and think it's weak, I actually think it has huge potential. But if we look at our team dynamic starting from the first phase of the build up from our back line and midfield to our wide receivers (fullbacks), then that's where I see the big issue in our team. Because there's a disconnect between the aforementioned deeper players and our front 4 imo. So connecting the whole dynamic from back to front should be a priority imo. So signing a CB with the requisite attributes along with a midfielder who has the ability to conduct proceedings and become the conduit where he can be the point of contact for the back line and forwards is very important IMO. We don't have that player in the squad and that needs to change if we're to challenge for the league.
If we win our last 2 games, we will have reached 76 pts which is 5 points less than City last year with no pre season, playing in a covid season and being forced to throw a game this week and yet still had second wrapped up for a good month now. How is that not close? The 2 Manchester clubs have dominated this league more than the points indicate. Both had to recover from bad starts due to the quick turnover and just put their foot down. Utd were on course to beat Citys second place total from last season with around 3 weeks to go! Theres too much being made out of an overall meaningless last few weeks in a testing time imo.I disagree. There's never one problem. The caf has decided that this defensive midfielder will suddenly provide is everything. Even fix the right side of our attack somehow which is never going to happen by taking shortcuts.
I don't disagree that midfield and defense also need improvement but I don't think attack is okay, this is okay, that is okay and this one /two changes and we win the title.
Our best league finish in awhile (since Jose 2nd place anyway) is alright but it's still just 70 points in 36 games (much lower than that year) and we have a long way to go. We still have teams like Liverpool in the league who are PL and CL winners, something our 11 cannot even dream of. Chelsea are looking impressive too making CL
My point there - we aren't that close às is being made out and have many areas we have to improve at. The attack for example is not great. If you want okay enjoy 3-4 years of top 4 finishes while other teams chase excellence and we're fine with "our best finish in years".
On the actual attack, seriously why is RW still so poor? Greenwood is fanatastic and a dynamight finisher. But he is a finisher. Not a winger. Not a creator If AWB is clumsy as feck on the right flank, Greenwood and Rahsford are desperate to come into the middle where they feel normal, who is going to give us creative quality from out wide? Matq? Where is this lopsided Ness going to magically end from? Is AWB going to become Maicon? Are Greenwood and Rahsford suddenly going to enjoy being wingers?
Serious questions. I don't see an answer in your posts. Attack is alright is not enough. We are looking to win leagues and champions leagues not top 4 arsenal awards.
We don't need to spend big, we need to show patience, because we have a kid called Ethan Laird who will provide that.Same question for you. Who will give us creativity, class and control from the right next year? Which fullback are we spending big on then?
Ethan Laird will solve our right wing. Alright mate. See in on our next title challenge in 25/26. By which time Bruno's legs would have fallen off.We don't need to spend big, we need to show patience, because we have a kid called Ethan Laird who will provide that.
If you think a naturally right footed player who isn't a winger in today's game is gonna solve a imaginary position then you're very much mistaken. There's more than one way to skin a Cat as they say. Your absolute desperation for the Sancho signing is understandable, he's a good player but it's not Sancho or bust as far as winning the league goes. We might not even challenge in 25/26, and if Bruno's legs fall off, then we'll replace them with Hannibal Mejbri's fresh ones.Ethan Laird will solve our right wing. Alright mate. See in on our next title challenge in 25/26. By which time Bruno's legs would have fallen off.
It's not an imaginary position. Sancho already plays RW superbly. Peak Nani would be wonderful for us right now. People are obsessed with the modern game being a special mythical beast.If you think a naturally right footed player who isn't a winger in today's game is gonna solve a imaginary position then you're very much mistaken. There's more than one way to skin a Cat as they say. Your absolute desperation for the Sancho signing is understandable, he's a good player but it's not Sancho or bust as far as winning the league goes. We might not even challenge in 25/26, and if Bruno's legs fall off, then we'll replace them with Hannibal Mejbri's fresh ones.
There's nothing mythical about how the game has evolved tactically. Ryan Giggs was a winger, Andrei Kanchelskis was a winger but David Beckham was a right sided midfielder. Sancho would not be deployed as a winger in a 4-4-2. Sancho is a wide forward in the game today of the inverted type. Dortmund's right winger was Hakimi last season.It's not an imaginary position. Sancho already plays RW superbly. Peak Nani would be wonderful for us right now. People are obsessed with the modern game being a special mythical beast.
You still haven't given a solution. Ethan Laird is not a serious suggestions for a club of wanting to win the PL and CL. Give me your one wahy to skin this cat at least ?
Okay so we don't have a problem and will win the title and CL soon with Greenwood plus Laird/AwB on the right.There's nothing mythical about how the game has evolved tactically. Ryan Giggs was a winger, Andrei Kanchelskis was a winger but David Beckham was a right sided midfielder. Sancho would not be deployed as a winger in a 4-4-2. Sancho is a wide forward in the game today of the inverted type. Dortmund's right winger was Hakimi last season.
You want me to give you a solution to a problem I never said existed. So your question is redundant.
I've clearly stated in one of my earlier posts, as to what I regard as the issue in the team. I've also said I would like Sancho to be bought, but I'm in agreement with people who have coached Sancho and they have said that he's best deployed on the left. These are people that have helped develop Sancho's game. At Dortmund he was playing in a specific system under Favre where the width on the right was coming from Hakimi.Okay so we don't have a problem and will win the title and CL soon with Greenwood plus Laird/AwB on the right.
Suffice to say we completely disagree on what it takes to win big trophies.
I cant look through older posts. I'm simply asking for what right wing combination are you going with next 2 years to win big trophies.I've clearly stated in one of my earlier posts, as to what I regard as the issue in the team. I've also said I would like Sancho to be bought, but I'm in agreement with people who have coached Sancho and they have said that he's best deployed on the left. These are people that have helped develop Sancho's game. At Dortmund he was playing in a specific system under Favre where the width on the right was coming from Hakimi.
Your disagreement with me is regarding the player's position and not about winning trophies.
Chelsea won their last league title with Victor Moses providing the width on their right. So it's about finding the balance in the collective.I cant look through older posts. I'm simply asking for what right wing combination are you going with next 2 years to win big trophies.
I'd we're talking about Ole he made Sancho his priority and seems to be doing so again.Chelsea won their last league title with Victor Moses providing the width on their right. So it's about finding the balance in the collective.
And it's not about what I'm going with but rather what Solskjaer will go with. And he's signed Wan Bissaka so will play him with either Laird as back up or he will bring someone in to provide competition.
With all due respect, i'm in agreement with Ole about signing Sancho.I'd we're talking about Ole he made Sancho his priority and seems to be doing so again.
Okay your take is keep RW as it is. Greenwood plus AWB/laird. Got it.
