Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lash said:
I'm not saying they're not the weakest link, but similarly Henderson and Wijnaldum are the weakest links in that Liverpool (full strength) side. I think we're evolving finally having an attack that moves, ie runs in behind and not static as feck. Everyone is starting to take heed and we're improving across the front line. I then see the issue stemming that like with Leeds, you take out Bruno, the creativity is gone. I don't think Pogba is anywhere close to a true creative attacking midfielder, so having Bruno + Sancho would be far better than sacrificing our defensive solidity at the base of midfield.

I don't think the player we would both want to replace either fred or mctominay exists right now.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep leaving Fabinho out? He's their #6, Wijnaldum played as the AM like Bruno, and the first thing Klopp did when he got the chance was bring Thiago in to add quality in midfield. Henderson isn’t a great player but he's much better than either of McFred who aren't even that solid defensively, they run around a lot but lose opposition runners frequently. As far as Pogba goes, I take it you want to sell him?

Rice/Bentancur and Camavinga/Neuhaus in for McFred is an easy big upgrade.
 
Devil may care said:
The 2 I've bolded are the only 2 that would work in the PL, the rest would get ran through, even Guardiola has stopped with the 2 AM's ahead of the holder, Pogba is no Gundogan when it comes to covering ground which is vital, Pogba should be factored into the front 4 options rather than the midfield pivot options imo, and these days it seems Ole has realized as well. Rice is good at what he does but he's not Superman and I don't think Fred or Van de Beek are the answer as his partner.
Click to expand...
As I said in the edit, Pogba can work in a midfield three if you pair him with two work horses/defensive players. What's the difference in playing Pogba - Fred - Rice to Pogba - Herrera - Matic that worked well in Ole's interim days.

Bruno - VdB - Rice midfield can also be used at the very least against easy opponents. This midfield three has similar skillset to De Bruyne - Silva - Fernandinho which has worked for City several times.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
As I said in the edit, Pogba can work in a midfield three if you pair him with two work horses/defensive players. What's the difference in playing Pogba - Fred - Rice to Pogba - Herrera - Matic that worked well in Ole's interim days.

Bruno - VdB - Rice midfield can also be used at the very least against easy opponents. This midfield three has similar skillset to De Bruyne - Silva - Fernandinho which has worked for City several times.
Click to expand...

Where does Bruno play in that midfield? We play 4-3-2-1, it's the only way to get Pogba and Bruno into the side and that is surely paramount.

David Silva is levels above Van de Beek mate, and there are no easy opponents in the PL, even the lower half teams will press you and get about your midfield. There's a reason Guardiola always has 2 of Fernandinho/Rodri/Gundogan in midfield these days and plays Foden wide, without a Silva type you can't get away with such a weak midfield in the PL.
 
Devil may care said:
Where does Bruno play in that midfield? We play 4-3-2-1, it's the only way to get Pogba and Bruno into the side and that is surely paramount.
Click to expand...
Bruno does not play. Maybe he's injured or resting. But if he's unavailable that midfield is still functional

Devil may care said:
David Silva is levels above Van de Beek mate, and there are no easy opponents in the PL, even the lower half teams will press you and get about your midfield. There's a reason Guardiola always has 2 of Fernandinho/Rodri/Gundogan in midfield these days and plays Foden wide, without a Silva type you can't get away with such a weak midfield in the PL.
Click to expand...
Of course Silva is better than VdB. I'm not comparing their quality but what they would offer. VdB - Bruno - Rice all have the skillet to be used in the same way Silva - De Bruyne - Fernandinho were used. And yes there are weak teams in the Pl.

How exactly did Silva stop City from having a defensively weak midfield
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Bruno does not play. Maybe he's injured or resting. But if he's unavailable that midfield is still functional


Of course Silva is better than VdB. I'm not comparing their quality but what they would offer. VdB - Bruno - Rice all have the skillet to be used in the same way Silva - De Bruyne - Fernandinho were used. And yes there are weak teams in the Pl.

How exactly did Silva stop City from having a defensively weak midfield
Click to expand...

Bruno hardly ever misses a game, the team needs to include a double pivot with Bruno and Pogba at AM/LW respectively to make sense for us.

I don't see Van de Beek working in that system like you do mate, Silva was a maestro, you can be defensively good by keeping the ball, moving your tewm around and running the opposition out chasing shadows, he basically operated the same way Iniesta did for Pep at Barca, Van de Beek isn't that player, h'es a quick give and go type, not a controller, he has very different attributes, the likes of Silva and Iniesta are the exception rather than the rule.
 
Devil may care said:
Why do you keep leaving Fabinho out? He's their #6, Wijnaldum played as the AM like Bruno, and the first thing Klopp did when he got the chance was bring Thiago in to add quality in midfield. Henderson isn’t a great player but he's much better than either of McFred who aren't even that solid defensively, they run around a lot but lose opposition runners frequently. As far as Pogba goes, I take it you want to sell him?

Rice/Bentancur and Camavinga/Neuhaus in for McFred is an easy big upgrade.
Click to expand...
Because we play with a front 4 with Bruno, not a front 3 like Liverpool.

I do think we should sell Pogba, but not because he isn't world class, just we can't fit him in our team with Bruno.

I've had this argument in the Rice thread, but Rice puts up pretty much the same numbers as Fred, so I don't see how it's a big upgrade - Bentancur I take your point, but don't know if he would translate into the prem. Camavinga? He's had a very average season and is just a kid. I couldn't comment on Neuhaus, not seen enough of him, but I don't think he's physical as McTom, so i think you're sacrificing a part of Scott's game that is very good for us.
 
Lash said:
Because we play with a front 4 with Bruno, not a front 3 like Liverpool.

I do think we should sell Pogba, but not because he isn't world class, just we can't fit him in our team with Bruno.

I've had this argument in the Rice thread, but Rice puts up pretty much the same numbers as Fred, so I don't see how it's a big upgrade - Bentancur I take your point, but don't know if he would translate into the prem. Camavinga? He's had a very average season and is just a kid. I couldn't comment on Neuhaus, not seen enough of him, but I don't think he's physical as McTom, so i think you're sacrificing a part of Scott's game that is very good for us.
Click to expand...

Wijnaldum is the most advanced of the 3, so whether it's 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 you have to compare the 2 deeper midfielders, which is Henderson and Fabinho vs McFred.

Fair enough, I think we can if we use him off the left as we've been doing, but if the plan is to bring in Sancho then I'd sell him rather than the waste of time that is playing him in the double pivot.

Stats are decieving without context, I'm not even a huge Rice mark, but his defensive positioning is miles ahead of Fred, he snuffs things out in games before they even materialize, I'm a bit dubious of him on the ball but as DM he's comfortably better than both of McFred. With Neuhaus he'd replace Fred, Rice replaces McTominay's physicality.
 
Devil may care said:
Bruno hardly ever misses a game, the team needs to include a double pivot with Bruno and Pogba at AM/LW respectively to make sense for us.
Click to expand...
Yes because we Ole overplays him. I mean we've won tons of games with Bruno at AM and without Pogba at LW.

Devil may care said:
I don't see Van de Beek working in that system like you do mate, Silva was a maestro, you can be defensively good by keeping the ball, moving your tewm around and running the opposition out chasing shadows, he basically operated the same way Iniesta did for Pep at Barca, Van de Beek isn't that player, h'es a quick give and go type, not a controller, he has very different attributes, the likes of Silva and Iniesta are the exception rather than the rule.
Click to expand...
Yes he's not exactly like Silva but I think VdB has the skill that made that Guardiola system not get exposed defensively. On the ball he knows how to keep possession and maintain the flow of the game. Off the ball he presses and works hard. David Silva aside we've also seen Bernardo Silva play in that same system and role and City still played well. They don't get exposed defensively like they ought too because they dominated possession and worked hard off the ball. A Bruno - VdB - DM midfield is capable of this.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Yes because we Ole overplays him. I mean we've won tons of games with Bruno at AM and without Pogba at LW.
Click to expand...

Bruno is hard to drop, similar to Rooney was for us, the big players don't sit out many games.


[Yes he's not exactly like Silva but I think VdB has the skill that made that Guardiola system not get exposed defensively. On the ball he knows how to keep possession and maintain the flow of the game. Off the ball he presses and works hard. David Silva aside we've also seen Bernardo Silva play in that same system and role and City still played well. They don't get exposed defensively like they ought too because they dominated possession and worked hard off the ball. A Bruno - VdB - DM midfield is capable of this.
Click to expand...

I disagree but we'll just go round circles at this point, and more importantly I don't see Ole ever using that set-up either, in fact Van de Beek is probably on borrowed time.
 
Devil may care said:
Bruno is hard to drop, similar to Rooney was for us, the big players don't sit out many games.




I disagree but we'll just go round circles at this point, and more importantly I don't see Ole ever using that set-up either, in fact Van de Beek is probably on borrowed time.
Click to expand...
Same way I don't see Ole getting 2 midfielders. Or playing Pogba only on the left. But yeah let's agree to disagree cause we'd go in circles like you said
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Same way I don't see Ole getting 2 midfielders. Or playing Pogba only on the left. But yeah let's agree to disagree cause we'd go in circles like you said
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the first one, and that's why we'll be also rans again next season, as far as Pogba goes, if he doesn't want to use him on the left i hope we sell him or try for swap deal with Real Madrid.
 
Another good goal.

His long-term position is on the left, no doubt about it.
 
What a goal. The season can't end soon enough. Cos the way he's going, a few millions more will be needed.
 
Good goal. Problem is, Rashford or Pogba would score the exact same goal given that much time and space on the left.
 
Idxomer said:
Another good goal.

His long-term position is on the left, no doubt about it.
Click to expand...
I dunno I really disagree. He's really creative on the right and has played more on the right in general. We'd use him mostly on the right too I'd expect, given Rashford on the left.
 
He's an amazing talent at a great age. I absolutely appreciate the concern with prioritizing certain positions based on what is certain to be a limited budget, but this boy ticks all the boxes. In my opinion, you go get him at the price now being touted. He's a game changer that would give us incredible flexibility and options up front. Players like Sancho don't come along all that often (particularly ones that we have a very strong chance of signing). Despite our other needs, he's a no brainer of a signing.
 
JustinC00 said:
would you rather that go to the greedy glazers pockets?
Click to expand...

That's not the correct argument, the argument is if that 100m isn't better spent elsewhere when we already have Rashford and Pogba in his position. Especially considering how thin our squad is compared to City and Chelsea.

We could get two very good £50m players with that money. I'm all for signing Sancho but at a realistic price that lets us build the rest of the squad too, as it needs to be for us to challenge. He's a very good player but he's not 100m good.
 
JustinC00 said:
would you rather that go to the greedy glazers pockets?
Click to expand...
marktan said:
For 100m euros it is.
Click to expand...

Why? We have only finished a bit behind City.

Our attack was really missing the first months of the season. Martial Greenwood weren't at the races and Cavani wasn't fit and was banned.

Imagine we had not wasted last summer. Sancho would probably had us that much closer.

Sounds worth it to me.
 
marktan said:
That's not the correct argument, the argument is if that 100m isn't better spent elsewhere when we already have Rashford and Pogba in his position. Especially considering how thin our squad is compared to City and Chelsea.

We could get two very good £50m players with that money. I'm all for signing Sancho but at a realistic price that lets us build the rest of the squad too, as it needs to be for us to challenge. He's a very good player but he's not 100m good.
Click to expand...

Statistically and age wise he is. And a large amount of those are at RW which is a weakness for us.
 
The fact he can play both sides well is a good think. He's played well this season mainly on the left and in previous season he's played well, mostly on the right.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Statistically and age wise he is. And a large amount of those are at RW which is a weakness for us.
Click to expand...

I'll agree to disagree but in my opinion he's not. He gets stats in the Bundesliga but watching him play he's not a 100m player. I'd value him more like £60m. Good vision and assists but his dribbling isn't very pacey like Mane or Neymar, which could lead us to a similar Mikhitaryan like situation.

If Dortmund sell for say £65m it's a good deal as we can still get 2 more top players but at 100m euros we can only get one more. If Sancho doesn't end up being any better than Greenwood on the right then we've ended up wasting a whole summer on a squad option.
 
Sancho with 2 goals tonight in the first half agianst Leipzig in the German Cup Final.....the lad is worth the money required to get him from Dortmund
 
assist from the right side now


meanwhile i'm watching rashford having another atrocious game
 
Okey said:
What a goal. The season can't end soon enough. Cos the way he's going, a few millions more will be needed.
Click to expand...

Bigger problem is in classic Utd fashion it will likely drag out all summer, and we will risk losing out if he shines at the Euros.
 
If it means I never have to watch Rashford play on the right again, he will be worth the money.
 
Devil may care said:
Wijnaldum is the most advanced of the 3, so whether it's 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 you have to compare the 2 deeper midfielders, which is Henderson and Fabinho vs McFred.

Fair enough, I think we can if we use him off the left as we've been doing, but if the plan is to bring in Sancho then I'd sell him rather than the waste of time that is playing him in the double pivot.

Stats are decieving without context, I'm not even a huge Rice mark, but his defensive positioning is miles ahead of Fred, he snuffs things out in games before they even materialize, I'm a bit dubious of him on the ball but as DM he's comfortably better than both of McFred. With Neuhaus he'd replace Fred, Rice replaces McTominay's physicality.
Click to expand...
Take it all back after tonight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.