Is it time to burst “Rashy’s” bubble?

[Raees]

This place is beyond stupid somtimes.

He's 21. He pays like a 21 year old. A very talented one...there's been zero evidence of him having any hint of attitude or workrate problem and he's mostly been very good since Ole took over, and won us what, 5-6 games in that time? He'll have around 15 goals by the end of the season and I'm not sure how many 21 year olds there are in the world who'd do that in our team.

I think he's one of the best assets we've got. Every year on here it's like people pick one of our players at random to just pick on every time they play poorly and ignore completely whenever they play well. Ronaldo at Rashford's age played terribly half the time and there were people on here demanding we sell him. It got boring a long time ago.

Not true at all. Ronaldo at his age was on a different level technically and in terms of general decision making in terms of passing, hold up etc. Only difference is, Rashford was the better natural goalscorer IMO at a young age but Ronaldo worked on that to take it to a different level.

Referring to guys like Ronaldo etc is not going to help anyone's cause who wants to defend Rashford from any criticism.

Does anyone see the irony in this? One of the biggest criticisms of Jose was that he was too harsh on his players and completely blew their confidence, the same was said regarding his treatment of Rashford (when he talked about why he always played Lukaku).

Now we're saying that we're making our players overconfident by giving them confidence and need to bring them down? Jees he's in a bit of a rough patch but that shouldn't mean that we ditch him from the starting line-up. He's been fantastic since Ole has given him the confidence he needs, which is a necessity for all players; Rashers is definitely talented enough to become a top level striker.

An excellent point made in bold...

Which is why there is a debate to be had as to how best to develop Rashford to that next level.

Right now there is no doubt in my mind that he's an effective player at the highest level in terms of being able to grab a goal or create danger. For him to be able to do that, he needs the confidence of the manager and to be confident in his abilities.. we saw under Jose that towards the end, making him feel like shit.. was not a great strategy to get Rashford playing well.

On the flip side, when we are hearing reports of him being offered £300K a week and when he starts doing silly stuff on the ball, being selfish and taking set pieces when he's clearly off his game, then you have to question whether we are taking it too far the other way. We're treating him like he's made it and based on reports, offering him wages as if he has made it... which to my mind is ridiculous. He's still very much a work in progress and should be made to feel like he is, so that he can become a better player in the long term.

This isn't about writing him off, but it is about how do we get the best out of Marcus in the long term.

Right now he isn't good enough IMO to be starting for a top European side in any of the key attacking positions, personally he only gets into the United starting lineup by default due to Martial being a crock, Lukaku not being that great either and well what is there left after that?

Now yes you can say well he's only 21? but Rooney and Ronaldo at that age were already good enough at that age to be regulars for both club and country and never looked as raw in terms of their general 90 minute performances... they rarely ran the ball out of play or looked so inconsistent from a technical perspective. We are Man United, if we want to win titles or CL... we are going to have to hold even youngsters to a higher standard than would be expected from a club not challenging for titles. It is the only way we will get back to the top.

Do we want Rashford to be part of that journey? of course... he's a local lad and it would be brilliant to see him become an integral part of our next dynasty. However for him to do that.. realistically, I think we need to have a word with him about being prepared to be a more bit part player and getting in the talent which can perform right here right now or at the very least is much more consistent from a technical as well as goal-scoring perspective. He's very raw and he needs to be handled accordingly.. not paid £300k a week and be made to think he's the finished article.

That isn't going to help him or the club.

 

[JPRouve]

Rashford stay confident, be selfish and don't stop shooting that's how you will score goals. Also shoot more on the ground, if you struggle work on it.

 

[Raees]

This thread is everything what is wrong with a United fan these days.

You're spot on. This place is absolutely pathetic.

This thread is pure gold.

If you guys weren't so caught up in being hysterical, there's some decent posts being made across both sides of the fence.

Never quite understood the need to jump into every thread and attack the fan base from discussing performances of the side they support.. and turn it into an ugly battle for supremacy. It is childish and ever since the Jose era has been exposed as being downright ridiculous. Remember the attempts to shut down any criticism back then and laughing at every fan who didn't back the manager.. worked out well didn't it.

Either offer some constructive points to the discussion or feck off.

 

[Raees]

Rashford stay confident, be selfish and don't stop shooting that's how you will score goals. Also shoot more on the ground, if you struggle work on it.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

If you guys weren't so caught up in being hysterical, there's some decent posts being made across both sides of the fence.

Never quite understood the need to jump into every thread and attack the fan base from discussing performances of the side they support.. and turn it into an ugly battle for supremacy. It is childish and ever since the Jose era has been exposed as being downright ridiculous. Remember the attempts to shut down any criticism back then and laughing at every fan who didn't back the manager.. worked out well didn't it.

Either offer some constructive points to the discussion or feck off.

How do you propose to 'burst' this 'bubble' of arrogance you have imagined? Have you ever considered that he takes free kicks because he's best at them in training?

 

[Smores]

Always an issue with any young player and the response to his purple patch was over the top. I've no idea if it went to his head though, he was selfish at times before then too.

I'd hope Ole didn't guarantee him a first team spot just because he's one of our own. He's very young and he's not always going to be in good form.

 

[minoo-utd]

Give Martial the right time at number 9 instead of that Rashford and you will see the different.

 

[Dante]

Give Rashford the same treatment that Mourinho gave Martial. Martial is now a much better player for it.

 

[nimic]

You're spot on. This place is absolutely pathetic.

I don't completely disagree, but this sounds really out of place coming from a site staff member.

 

[bushyboy]

Just needs to work on his game management and consistency. Always gives 100%. Prefer him over Martial (who is technically better), and especially Lukaku, any day.

 

[Raees]

How do you propose to 'burst' this 'bubble' of arrogance you have imagined? Have you ever considered that he takes free kicks because he's best at them in training?

The bubble isn't necessarily about arrogance.. it is about giving him a false impression that he's already a superstar that doesn't need to work on the simple things, cause his game is already fuly formed and that of a first team regular for a elite side i.e. living in a bubble. The way to burst it is just talk to him rationally without being a dick about it or sneaky like Jose. Just discuss where you think he’s at right now and how best to advance his game in the long term.

Nothing wrong with him being first choice at free-kicks but there needs to some sense of self-reflection, as in if you've been hitting them badly for a number of games or if your shooting is not quite on it that day, be humble enough to pass on your duties, or take it differently i.e. cross it in instead etc - especially at his age and level that he's at.

 

[Raees]

Give Martial the right time at number 9 instead of that Rashford and you will see the different.

Martial needs to stay fit first. For all the criticism Rashford gets - he's a much superior athletic specimen at this stage and he plays through pain.. which Martial is unable to do.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The bubble isn't necessarily about arrogance.. it is about giving him a false impression that he's already a superstar that doesn't need to work on the simple things, cause his game is already fuly formed and that of a first team regular for a elite side i.e. living in a bubble.

Nothing wrong with him being first choice at free-kicks but there needs to some sense of self-reflection, as in if you've been hitting them badly for a number of games or if your shooting is not quite on it that day, be humble enough to pass on your duties, or take it differently i.e. cross it in instead etc - especially at his age and level that he's at.

He did let Fred take one last night, which was terrible. Also the premise of your thread works on an assumption. How do you know the things that he's asked to work on in training?

 

[fergieisold]

I’m still unsure about how good Rashford is. Some games he looks great but then he reverts back to crap like last night. Really the next year or two are crucial for him, I’m not convinced he’s going to be good enough long term!

 

[Withnail]

He 'upped' his game in his first season as a twenty-one year old. Rashford turned twenty-one at the start of the season, it's pretty much the same thing.

Besides, before that season, Ronaldo had already been selected in premier league, european championship and UEFA 'team of the year' selections; and finished 12th and 20th in the Balon d'Or. He was levels above.

You see to be moving the goalposts to suit your argument.

Ronaldo is born in Feb. The season you are referring to started when he was older than Rashford is now.

By the time Rashford is that old this season will be over.

As I said I'm not claiming he is or will be as good as Ronaldo but he's done enough to be trusted and not given the grief he's getting on this thread.

To say one of our brightest prospects is a major issue is baffling.

There are far more pressing areas of improvement in the this united team.

 

[El Jefe]

But who’s job is it to keep his feet on the ground? Yes partly himself by not being arrogant but we’ve made him into a “star” when he just isn’t one - he is a talented player who can do the exceptional but is, currently, generally ordinary for the majority of the 90 minutes. It is the club who should ensure he gets his helping of humble pie.

You are right, its not his fault. I blame Mourinho and Ole mainly for this because under LVG he actual played within his ability and was a very efficient player. I suspect that we've stroked his ego so much over the last couple of years that he truly believes he's a star now.

Even worse is the players on the pitch don't seem to be telling him to tone it down a bit. I hate to use the Keane cliche but its true here and not just for Roy. The likes of Giggs, Keane, Neville and Rio would have clipped his wings by now. Again it points to a lack of leadership on the pitch.

 

[coolredwine]

Why has Rashford become undroppable?

Because he plays in a position/role no one else in our team can fulfill, surely?

 

[El Jefe]

I can't wait till he turns 22. I'm growing sick of the whole "at his age Ronaldo was still wildly inconsistent" narrative by the Rashford hive. Probably the same people the same about Januzaj. Ronaldo is one in a million all parallels to him should be stopped. Use another player.

 

[Raees]

He did let Fred take one last night, which was terrible. Also the premise of your thread works on an assumption. How do you know the things that he's asked to work on in training?

Most of redcafe threads are based on assumptions - if we all didn’t assume certain things - there would barely be any discussions to be had so it is a moot point.

Having said that you can work out from United’s performances in recent years what it is they work on and with Rashford you can tell he has worked on things like shooting, dribbling (nothing wrong with that) etc but what I would argue is that United as a whole have been left behind when it comes to coaching about keeping the ball in tight spaces, being press resistant and consistently making the right passes under pressure. You could argue well maybe they have - but the proof is in the pudding and if they are they’re doing a shit job of it.

This isn’t a purely Marcus problem - it is something which can be seen across the board.

Why pick on Marcus? Well he needs that training more than any of our forwards and he’s at a tender age where he could develop so much still as his game is still so mouldable. That’s why it’s important to sort out the clubs tactical and coaching philosophies (modernise it) but also make sure he keeps an open mind and embraces the fact his game needs development outside of shooting/ball carrying .. otherwise he will get left behind the other English starlets coming through the game and other foreign signings we will no doubt make as we fight to get back to the top.

Like I said I have no desire to write him off - purely to discuss how we get this boy to the level of performance that match the hype. It isn’t necessarily a case of - let nature play it’s course - older he gets the better he will get. His game needs a lot of work and United need to place him in the right environment to allow him to grow.

 

[KM]

If you guys weren't so caught up in being hysterical, there's some decent posts being made across both sides of the fence.

Never quite understood the need to jump into every thread and attack the fan base from discussing performances of the side they support.. and turn it into an ugly battle for supremacy. It is childish and ever since the Jose era has been exposed as being downright ridiculous. Remember the attempts to shut down any criticism back then and laughing at every fan who didn't back the manager.. worked out well didn't it.

Either offer some constructive points to the discussion or feck off.

There's no attempt to shut any criticism. I just think that the link you've made between his attitude and his performances is stupid.

Also talk about hysterical, you're the one asking people to feck off because they don't want to agree with your frankly laughable and stupid analysis.

 

[KM]

Give Rashford the same treatment that Mourinho gave Martial. Martial is now a much better player for it.

What? Martial looks like he hasn't improved from his LvG days. I'm glad that Mourinho has gone now. He had a negative effects on our players.

Hilariously the suggestion from OP is to approach a Mourinho towards young players. No thank you.

 

[Ban]

If you guys weren't so caught up in being hysterical, there's some decent posts being made across both sides of the fence.

Never quite understood the need to jump into every thread and attack the fan base from discussing performances of the side they support.. and turn it into an ugly battle for supremacy. It is childish and ever since the Jose era has been exposed as being downright ridiculous. Remember the attempts to shut down any criticism back then and laughing at every fan who didn't back the manager.. worked out well didn't it.

Either offer some constructive points to the discussion or feck off.

You imagined some kind of bubble which need to be burst and made a thread about it. So no I won't feck of. Sorry. Don't make silly threads if you don't want people to criticize you. We made his ego big? How exactly? What do you propose, to tell him he's Actually not good enough.
I don't know what's all this stuff about his attitude about. Not to mention some saying he should be brought a peg or two. What does that mean and how should that be done. Nobody is saying he should be 1st choice but circumstances are like that that he plays a lot and he can improve by playing. As you said it's all based on assumptions. How do we now he isn't working on his game play? He has been injured, he's young but he's constantly picked on and based on made up stuff sometimes. We're now back at him being just run and gun player without An substance.

 

[Raees]

There's no attempt to shut any criticism. I just think that the link you've made between his attitude and his performances is stupid.

Also talk about hysterical, you're the one asking people to feck off because they don't want to agree with your frankly laughable and stupid analysis.

You imagined some kind of bubble which need to be burst and made a thread about it. So no I won't feck of. Sorry. Don't make silly threads if you don't want people to criticize you.

So do you both think he’s worth 300k a week and should be paid as if he’s an untouchable first team starter?

The bubble isn’t just about attitude it is about the clubs approach to developing him and getting the best out of him long term.

Interested about your views re: above...

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

This thread is pure gold.

Welbeck was better mate.

I love a striker who excels at shitting himself inside the box.

 

[SAred]

Ill like Rashford but if the club are offering him that type of money then De gea needs 1 million a week. World or Man United have gone mad. Half that at most.

 

[KM]

So do you both think he’s worth 300k a week?

Nope but see this is the problem. It was just a Mirror report that you're basing this thread on and that too by a reporter who doesn't even cover Manchester United. Just to give an idea he is rated as tier4 on reddit.

Reporters like Simon Stone and Paul Hirst have reported figures like 150k which surely you'll agree is right based upon his potential and ability.

 

[Raees]

What? Martial looks like he hasn't improved from his LvG days. I'm glad that Mourinho has gone now. He had a negative effects on our players.

Hilariously the suggestion from OP is to approach a Mourinho towards young players. No thank you.

Laughable how you just make shit up to make a point. Mourinho approach - how did you get that from my OP?

 

[Ban]

What? Martial looks like he hasn't improved from his LvG days. I'm glad that Mourinho has gone now. He had a negative effects on our players.

Hilariously the suggestion from OP is to approach a Mourinho towards young players. No thank you.

It's strange. Jose treatment was called horrible cause young players needed a pat on the back, now suddenly Marcus should get a tough treatment cause his ego is too big apparently.

 

[Raees]

Nope but see this is the problem. It was just a Mirror report that you're basing this thread on and that too by a reporter who doesn't even cover Manchester United. Just to give an idea he is rated as tier4 on reddit.

Reporters like Simon Stone and Paul Hirst have reported figures like 150k which surely you'll agree is right based upon his potential and ability.

150K is still too much especially considering how raw he is and when you compare the wages we pay players compared to European and even domestic rivals.

Uniteds entire approach to contract renewals is a joke. We have no sense of proportion when it comes to splashing the cash.

 

[KM]

Laughable how you just make shit up to make a point. Mourinho approach - how did you get that from my OP?

takes a big slice of humble pie and works really hard on all aspects of his game and simplifies it... i.e. becomes a work horse who understands his own limitations.

That's from your own OP.

Great advice to a young attacker. Settle down pal with those shots and trickery. Just focus on your work rate and you'll be a good player.
That's the Mourinho approach.

 

[Ban]

Just seen this. He should work on all of his aspects to become a workhorse.. Really..
Listen Marcus you're just a workhorse so work on aspects of being a workhorse, nothing more cause you're limited.

 

[KM]

150K is still too much especially considering how raw he is and when you compare the wages we pay players compared to European and even domestic rivals.

Uniteds entire approach to contract renewals is a joke. We have no sense of proportion when it comes to splashing the cash.

If you don't think that in this current age that Rashford isn't worth 150k then I think we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[Raees]

It's strange. Jose treatment was called horrible cause young players needed a pat on the back, now suddenly Marcus should get a tough treatment cause his ego is too big apparently.

Is talking to a player and making him realise he’s a player who isn’t quite a first team starter material at the highest level (but potentially could be) a bad thing or Jose Mourinho style management?

Jose would play mind games and drop players willy nilly even after good performances and not talk to them for ages and kept them all guessing as to what he actually wanted.

Worlds apart mate - get a grip.

 

[El Zoido]

Not too worried about Rashford, but the two main issues are:

1. Other players need to step up when he’s not playing well, and
2. He appears to be a favourite of Ole and plays no matter what.

As many have said, he should have been taken off instead of Lukaku last night. He’s not Ronaldo, he should be withdrawn if he’s having such a bad game.

 

[sincher]

Sometimes it is best to stick with young strikers when they hit a dodgy patch but there are limits... I agree with the post above.

Want him to start against West Ham though as he could maybe start playing into better form.

 

[Ban]

Is talking to a player and making him realise he’s a player who isn’t quite a first team starter material at the highest level (but potentially could be) a bad thing or Jose Mourinho style management?

Jose would play mind games and drop players willy nilly even after good performances and not talk to them for ages and kept them all guessing as to what he actually wanted.

Worlds apart mate - get a grip.

Why don't you settle down a bit? Mate. People don't agree with you despite the fact you're a doctor of football, don't go all angry cause of that.
So you're basing your thread on a notion that nobody talks to him. Ok.

 

[KM]

"feck off" "you're making up shit" "get a grip" and then accuses other people of being hysterical. Christ.

 

[KM]

Sometimes it is best to stick with young strikers when they hit a dodgy patch but there are limits... I agree with the post above.

Want him to start against West Ham though as he could maybe start playing into better form.

Well he has scored 3 in 5 and created the best chance yesterday. I don't see any other alternatives. Lukaku and Martial hasn't really done anything to justify them playing as CF.

 

[Ban]

"feck off" "you're making up shit" "get a grip" and then accuses other people of being hysterical. Christ.

Just agree on everything and you're good.

 

[sincher]

Well he has scored 3 in 5 and created the best chance yesterday. I don't see any other alternatives. Lukaku and Martial hasn't really done anything to justify them playing as CF.

His form has been off in the last few games.

Martial and Lukaku have both been better in recent games.

But ok if he starts, but he was having a stinker and should have come off I think.