Is Harry Maguire being a worldwide punchline deserved?

[devilish]

Honestly I can't understand how Maguire could have made it to the very top. The guy is painfully slow, he's got zero leadership, he's incredibly thin skinned and he has no football awareness of what is happening around him. Sure he's tall and he is built like a brick wall but so are most Championship defenders.

 

[Tincanalley]

Bit harsh for people to use him as the example of a shit defender, no?

What a great commentator

 

[Himannv]

Definitely undeserved for me. He hasn’t even been that bad recently but his treatment is bordering on harassment at the moment.

 

[Kag]

It is totally and utterly undeserved in my mind. He seems to get punished over and over simply for the crime that we as a club decided to spend stupid, stupid money on him. That and Gareth Southgate picks him, even though he's clearly one of the top 4 or 5 CBs England have - this seems to go against him.

He's had a very successful career as a footballer. Just look at his career path. It's textbook. Sheffield United, to Hull, to Leicester, to United, each time earning his rise. He's worked hard to achieve that and you need to have dedication and ability to do it so I have respect for what he's done, he's just short at this level.

Criticism is absolutely fine because he's not up to it here, especially when it is focused on particular performances. But it's just become a cheap bandwagon for anyone that doesn't really have anything to say to hop on board and feel a part of something. Especially the neutrals that have no skin in the game, it's just a pile on for no good reason, I can't see any other justification for the consistency of the fixation on him. Some of it also becomes vitriolic.

Well said.

 

[cyberman]

Definitely undeserved for me. He hasn’t even been that bad recently but his treatment is bordering on harassment at the moment.

And for most of his time here we’ve actually don’t well. you’d think he was tripping over his own feet and throwing it in every game with the nonsense you read online.

 

[Tincanalley]

It shows that humans at their core are absolutely dreadful, Maguire has my full support, nobody deserves to be treated that way. It is despicable behavior from everyone taking part in this. When this is coming from Man Utd fans it makes me numb, support your damn players! You will all celebrate when he heads a ball in, hypocrites. The levels of toxicity in the world… fecking hell…

We need him tomorrow and I hope really hard he plays a fantastic game of football.

They are not Manchester United supporters though. They, like City, are irrelevant Tic Toc/Football Manager types. Even in the real world it’s easy to find pathetic attention seekers. Thank god for ignore buttons, generally.

 

[Champ]

Honestly, I don't understand this argument at all. There's a dearth of decent English CBs plus the standard of 90% of all international matches is Championship level.

Really?
So you don't get that being picked to play for one of the top footballing nation's over every other choice means that you are probably actually pretty decent?

And don't start saying that the alternatives are poor as well, as that is a straw man argument at best.
England have a pool of talent in defence, may not be a deep as they'd like but there's a good amount of CBs to choose over Maguire.

 

[Leftback99]

Just shows how easily influenced people are by twitter and YouTube hysterics.

Objectively he's been fine this season when called on. Fair chance he stays in the summer now too.

 

[devilish]

Just shows how easily influenced people are by twitter and YouTube hysterics.

Objectively he's been fine this season when called on. Fair chance he stays in the summer now too.

erm what? He's like our 5th choice CB these days

 

[SilentWitness]

It's incredibly unprofessional. It's quite strange how some don't see a contrast between random strangers on the net giving a few jokes out on a forum and a professional commentator on a broadcast doing so like that, especially when it is such a shit joke.

 

[Leftback99]

erm what? He's like our 5th choice CB these days

He's clearly 2nd choice RCB behind the unreliable Varane and there were reports Lindelof wants to leave. We won't be signing two CBs in summer, maybe not even one given priorities are clearly elsewhere.

 

[harms]

I have absolutely no idea why you edited a piece of my pm into a public forum, I’m pretty sure that is not what pm’s are for. If you try to put me in bad light then you are failing because I said absolutely nothing wrong in my pm to you.

Stop derailing the thread, you can use pms for private discussions.

 

[Strats]

It’s fundamentally undeserved even if he’s absolutely awful at times.

However; His arrogance, lack of self awareness and demeanor has made it impossible for me to feel any sort of sympathy for him. Don’t think he’s respected or well liked within the squad based on this.

 

[bringbackbebe]

And for most of his time here we’ve actually don’t well. you’d think he was tripping over his own feet and throwing it in every game with the nonsense you read online.

That's exactly what he does. He's a decent defender for 99% of the game but has these moments of madness that puts the entire team in jepordy in nearly every game he plays. The only reason why it's less this season is because he's played less and he's been caught out almost every time he's played. It's not surprising he's our 5th choice center back. Honestly, he's going to do better in a team where his lack of ball control, quick thinking, speed and agility aren't tested much - maybe West Ham or even Chelsea with 3 in the back will be a good fit for him.

 

[Zico1982]

To cut to the chase. No. Definetely No. Harry Maguire might look clumsy at times, but he is not a joke. He is really good for England but just not suited for the way, ten Hag wants to play. Therefore, he needs to go. Maguire can be world class in the right system. He needs the defensive midfield to be closer to the defense line than is the case with us. Else, his obvious weakness (pace) is put at painful display. In the 90s, Koeman sometimes had the same problem at Cruyffs Barcelona Dream Team. He could be outpaced by most of the spectators, and often needed wrestling skills to handle his opponent with yellows and reds as result. Koeman was just so much better at organizing the play.

 

[devilish]

He's clearly 2nd choice RCB behind the unreliable Varane and there were reports Lindelof wants to leave. We won't be signing two CBs in summer, maybe not even one given priorities are clearly elsewhere.

No he's not. Shaw is preferred as CB which makes Maguire 3rd-4th CB at best. If Maguire doesn't want to leave after being relegated in such role then he's more of a meme than mainstream fans think. Its also ironic you're criticising Varane while defending Maguire. It's like criticising a Ferrari to defend a Lada.

 

[SirAF]

When you consider his price, attitude and actual performance? Yeah, kind of.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Its beyond ridiculous now. The Youtubers were calling him our worst ever signing. Like worse then Bebe and Keleberson etc? And people say he's the worst defender in the league. Might not even be Championship level. Come off it. You can give an opinion on him but at least be a little be realistic. This is the same deender that took us to 2nd and 3rd. The same defender that is England Captain and had a good World Cup and took us to the Euro finals before that. Has he got weaknesses? Sure. But he's not shit. And he's definitely not a bad 3rd/4th CB. I understand other people giving him grief but our own fans should try support our own every now and again. Even if he is slapable.

 

[devilish]

To cut to the chase. No. Definetely No. Harry Maguire might look clumsy at times, but he is not a joke. He is really good for England but just not suited for the way, ten Hag wants to play. Therefore, he needs to go. Maguire can be world class in the right system. He needs the defensive midfield to be closer to the defense line than is the case with us. Else, his obvious weakness (pace) is put at painful display. In the 90s, Koeman sometimes had the same problem at Cruyffs Barcelona Dream Team. He could be outpaced by most of the spectators, and often needed wrestling skills to handle his opponent with yellows and reds as result. Koeman was just so much better at organizing the play.

You're making England national team sound like a huge football giant. Its not. The last time they won the WC was nearly 60 years ago.They even lost a European final at Wembley against a very shit Italy squad. Also its quite evident that their manager is ridiculously out of depth. He's basically in the job because he's English

And pace is often the excuse of why he fails. I mean there were many CBs who made a great career in football despite not being blessed with pace (ex Baresi or Blanc). However these guys had great awareness of what is going on around them and were able to anticipate what is going to happen before it got out of hand. Maguire lack that football intelligence.

 

[crossy1686]

If he played for any of our rivals we'd be loving it. His performances while playing for United coupled with his hubris have caused this.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Same goes for Shaw last season. Or Chelsea’s attackers ( or the football club) this season.

I know, I am not one of those who enjoys ridiculing Maguire comical defending. In fact I’ve always felt he has been top class defender for England, and thought he could still do a job for us.

But I remember he was also top of the list in “errors leading to goals” last season, and some of those were really shocking, so can’t really say his criticism was baseless. But the scale of it definitely went out of order in the social media, he doesn’t deserve that much hate/ridicule IMO.

 

[devilish]

If he played for any of our rivals we'd be loving it. His performances while playing for United coupled with his hubris have caused this.

There's alot of things that contribute to his ridicule some is down to him but most is not

a- the fee
b- the salary
c- his incredible thin skin
d- his interviews
e- his lack of football awareness
f- his lack of leadership.
g- his lack of pace

Maguire was lucky to play in a squad (ie Leicester) that played with a deep line defence and defended in numbers and to have a manager with England who is as out of depth as he is. His time ran out once United brought a manager who actually understand the modern game.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

As others have pointed out, a lot of it is just people mindlessly following the herd. This is NOT to say that no criticism of Maguire is warranted, but the extent to which it is taken is patently ridiculous. I mean you have people within our own fanbase who are using tiny clips like the one where Antony's facial expression drops from celebrating with Dalot to Maguire as proof that he has no friends at the club and must be a massive cnut behind the scenes. We even had people saying the bomb threat was faked.

To be honest, I don't mind the memes quite as much. Sure, they're daft, but ultimately whether it's fair or not they somewhat come with the territory and Maguire's not the only player who faces it. What's more irritating to me is that some people can't just leave it at "Maguire isn't good enough". They have to actively despise the guy, which is a bit mental to me.

Most people respond with "Look at his arrogant interviews!", but anyone who puts a second of thought into these stories and isn't an imbecile knows what's going on. Maguire isn't just bringing up the fact that the team have actually done quite well with him in the side, or that he himself has had a very good international career, out of nowhere. It's because journalists are asking him questions to get those responses, like "What do you say to those who question your inclusion in the England squad?" They then cut out the question they have, take the most juicy part of the quote and put it in a headline, and wait for the clicks and rabid reactions to come in.

Essentially, I think the extent to which some people take their vitriol towards Maguire is a bit insane. He's not been good enough to justify his price tag, and I'd probably sell him in the summer. I don't feel people need to take it any further than that, really.

 

[Solius]

Of course it's not deserved. Any player will always get some criticism for being crap but there are 100% times where it has just been bullying.

He does try his best every single game, he never moans about his lack of play time. Yes he seems a bit overconfident at times considering how he's played but I think that's just a coping mechanism for him.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

The state of supporters desperately looking to be offended by his often fumbled interviews to justify their own cnuty behaviour. Pathetic. Shielding yourself from the embarrassment of having a player that hasn't worked out by joining in with the bullies. Turncoats, the lot of you.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

There's alot of things that contribute to his ridicule some is down to him but most is not

a- the fee
b- the salary
c- his incredible thin skin
d- his interviews
e- his lack of football awareness
f- his lack of leadership.
g- his lack of pace

Maguire was lucky to play in a squad (ie Leicester) that played with a deep line defence and defended in numbers and to have a manager with England who is as out of depth as he is. His time ran out once United brought a manager who actually understand the modern game.

I mean the ridicule for Maguire started last season though, because he performed very poorly in a team full of players who performed very poorly. It's not like Ten Hag has just brutally exposed his inability to play in a modern system; in fact, on the whole Maguire's actually been fairly dependable when called upon this season.

 

[DWelbz19]

Obviously not. It’s pretty fecking gross how tribal football fans collectively get. When he was being used as an insult in Ghanaian Parliament — what the feck?

 

[Seveneric]

I would feel sorry for Maguire but he says stuff that doesn't make me feel sorry for him.

Yep. I don't expect him to publicly berate himself and say he's been shite, but he legit seems to think he's a good player and he's been great, he'll get no sympathy from me.

 

[devilish]

I mean the ridicule for Maguire started last season though, because he performed very poorly in a team full of players who performed very poorly. It's not like Ten Hag has just brutally exposed his inability to play in a modern system; in fact, on the whole Maguire's actually been fairly dependable when called upon this season.

He's 3rd-4th choice defender these days with ETH often preferring to play a LB as CB to him. Last game he got yellow carded in the 5 minutes of the game after rugby tackling a player. So no I don't think that he's doing well this season either. Its just ETH shielding him by giving him less and less game time.

TBH ETH has a bit to blame as well. He should have stripped him of the captain's band the moment he walked in OT. The guy was already struggling with handling the pressure of playing a game he's not cut for at a club whose way bigger then he is. Stripping him of the captain's band would have been a kindness

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Of course it's not deserved. Any player will always get some criticism for being crap but there are 100% times where it has just been bullying.

He does try his best every single game, he never moans about his lack of play time. Yes he seems a bit overconfident at times considering how he's played but I think that's just a coping mechanism for him.

I honestly think the overconfidence is largely a product of the questions he's being asked. I mean if journalists are asking you to justify your selection for England, or your presence at United, every single game, I don't know what the feck he's supposed to say.

People will argue that he should just not do the interviews but that would come with it's own problems seeing as he's still nominally the captain.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

He's 3rd-4th choice defender these days with ETH often preferring to play a LB as CB to him. Last game he got yellow carded in the 5 minutes of the game after rugby tackling a player. So no I don't think that he's doing well this season either. Its just ETH shielding him by giving him less and less game time.

TBH ETH has a bit to blame as well. He should have stripped him of the captain's band the moment he walked in OT. The guy was already struggling with handling the pressure of playing a game he's not cut for at a club whose way bigger then he is. Stripping him of the captain's band would have been a kindness

You're using one foul, in a game where Maguire was largely good aside from a shaky start, as reasoning for Maguire not having been "dependable when called upon". That he's third, fourth, or even fifth choice centre back is not the point here because the only claim I made was that "Maguire has been dependable when called upon".

 

[MadDogg]

No he's not. Shaw is preferred as CB which makes Maguire 3rd-4th CB at best. If Maguire doesn't want to leave after being relegated in such role then he's more of a meme than mainstream fans think. Its also ironic you're criticising Varane while defending Maguire. It's like criticising a Ferrari to defend a Lada.

Shaw has played about five games at centreback all season.

ETH quite clearly has two very different pecking orders for the two different sides. On the left Shaw is 2nd behind Martinez. On the right, Maguire and Lindelof have spent the season alternating pretty much equally to be Varane's back-up (a role that has obviously been needed to be used a lot more). If anything Maguire might be slightly ahead simply because he has been more likely to come off the bench.

 

[Offside]

His arrogance is what’s turned me off him. Clearly he’s not an £80m defender but clearly he’s not a terrible player either. But when he’s giving it Billy big Bollocks about having nothing to prove he deserves to take some shit, as he is a mistake waiting to happen.

 

[devilish]

You're using one foul, in a game where Maguire was largely good aside from a shaky start, as reasoning for Maguire not having been "dependable when called upon". That he's third, fourth, or even fifth choice centre back is not the point here because the only claim I made was that "Maguire has been dependable when called upon".

He's a so called top CB and United's captain. Getting a yellow card in 2-3 minutes into the game is silly. And yes being third, fourth, fifth choice centre back does matter given his salary, him being captain and the fee United paid for him. You might say that its not fault of that and maybe you're right. However life is rarely fair and an 80m rated CB whose paid nearly 200k a week is expected to do far better then that.

 

[devilish]

Shaw has played about five games at centreback all season.

ETH quite clearly has two very different pecking orders for the two different sides. On the left Shaw is 2nd behind Martinez. On the right, Maguire and Lindelof have spent the season alternating pretty much equally to be Varane's back-up (a role that has obviously been needed to be used a lot more). If anything Maguire might be slightly ahead simply because he has been more likely to come off the bench.

The fact that ETH would play a LB as CB while keeping Maguire on the bench is quite telling.

 

[Bilbo]

It's shocking, and United fans don't help. We've embarrassed ourselves when it comes to Maguire

 

[MadDogg]

Maguire obviously doesn't deserve to have been treated as badly as what he has. He has had some periods where he's been truly atrocious, but the way people go on you'd think he was like that all the time. In reality it was only the first month or two of 20/21 (which came directly after his trouble in Greece so was somewhat understandable), the first half of 21/22 and the first few weeks of this season. The rest of the time he's been ok, with one period (the second half of 20/21) where he was one of the best in the league.

Obviously he hasn't been good enough, but if you take out the first half of last season he also hasn't been anywhere near as bad as what some make out.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

He's a so called top CB and United's captain. Getting a yellow card in 2-3 minutes into the game is silly. And yes being third, fourth, fifth choice centre back does matter given his salary, him being captain and the fee United paid for him. You might say that its not fault of that and maybe you're right. However life is rarely fair and an 80m rated CB whose paid nearly 200k a week is expected to do far better then that.

Him being third, fourth, or fifth choice centre back isn't relevant because the point I was making was that the ridicule surrounding Maguire hasn't, as you implied, started because "we finally have a manager who understands modern football".

The ridicule (or ridicule on the level it's currently at) started last season when we were managed by Solskjaer.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

There's alot of things that contribute to his ridicule some is down to him but most is not

a- the fee
b- the salary
c- his incredible thin skin
d- his interviews
e- his lack of football awareness
f- his lack of leadership.
g- his lack of pace

Maguire was lucky to play in a squad (ie Leicester) that played with a deep line defence and defended in numbers and to have a manager with England who is as out of depth as he is. His time ran out once United brought a manager who actually understand the modern game.

Even before the fee and salary I would put his blunders or individual mistakes or whatever, there are quite a few. That was the kickstarter of the jokes alongside with what you have mentioned.

 

[jm99]

The cafe is generally moderated and doubt abuse will be condoned here.

What does that mean? You said the fans have absurd these players to get rid of them, I said the fans have been unsuccessful trying to get rid of the Glazers for 20 years, if all it took for fans to get their way was online criticism that wouldn't be the case