Nope, he's done fantastic with us. I think a final and a semi final in a major international tournament is a great achievment for us, especially considering the clowns that managed us before that set us back years.
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
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I think he was a good manager for England, you can point to luck if the draw but not exactly his fault.
Now though I think he’s holding England back with his pragmatism. The team can’t defend, so go out and attack.
Now though I think he’s holding England back with his pragmatism. The team can’t defend, so go out and attack.
Anyone who says yes is a moron.
Would Gerrard do better than him? Cause you know some in the media will demand he takes over
No, but he's a shit manager.
He is the english Raymond Domenech. You make of that what you want.
As club managers go yes, absolutely wank. As international managers go, very average.
He's been lucky with the fixtures in the past 2 tournaments and still hasn't been able to win one. Tactically he's very poor. He doesn't know how to get the best out of the squad and we will just amble through another tournament.
If Southgate is good for almost winning something, then Otto Rehhagel is a legend, since he actually won something (the 2004 Euros with Greece). Go ahead and explain why Rehhagel is shit and/or fluked it while Southgate is quality. If England were getting this close to winning something while playing a brand of football comely to the eye, you might be able to make a (somewhat belabored) case, but their style is pedestrian and dull.
Rehaggel isn't a good example, he had success at club level and won the UEFA cup winner's cup which was a big deal at the time.
Fair point. I meant it more in terms of Greece (with Rehhagel) vis a vis England (with Southgate). Nobody remembers that Greece team with fondness, and they have the trophy, yet this England team of nearly-rans is (wait for it…) lionized.
He’s been good for England
boring as feck, but good
boring as feck, but good
He is pragmatic and practical, but he is on a hiding to nothing with England.
Their fans have decided they are better than they are. Again.
Their center backs are all very average. Their center midfield has no depth and their keepers are very average too. They have one serious option at center forward.
The team is lauded for their fullbacks and wide players, but when you break it down…
TAA (horribly exposed), James (Out), Trippier (never top class), Shaw (horribly inconsistent), Chilwell (fragile)
Their forward options too. Foden is great, but other than that, you have a series of young players still making their reputation in the game (Saka/Sancho) or a few that struggle for consistency despite hundreds of PL games between them (Sterling/Rashford)
England have one genuinely proven world class player going to the World Cup (Harry Kane)
Some of the players the like of France and Brazil will leave at home could make the England squad comfortably. Both have much better footballers in defence, midfield and attack, yet he will be tarred and feathered if he doesn’t make at least a semi-final (and possibly even then if the football isn’t great)
I apologize to England fans, because I know how passionate you are, but it really is the impossible job.
Their fans have decided they are better than they are. Again.
Their center backs are all very average. Their center midfield has no depth and their keepers are very average too. They have one serious option at center forward.
The team is lauded for their fullbacks and wide players, but when you break it down…
TAA (horribly exposed), James (Out), Trippier (never top class), Shaw (horribly inconsistent), Chilwell (fragile)
Their forward options too. Foden is great, but other than that, you have a series of young players still making their reputation in the game (Saka/Sancho) or a few that struggle for consistency despite hundreds of PL games between them (Sterling/Rashford)
England have one genuinely proven world class player going to the World Cup (Harry Kane)
Some of the players the like of France and Brazil will leave at home could make the England squad comfortably. Both have much better footballers in defence, midfield and attack, yet he will be tarred and feathered if he doesn’t make at least a semi-final (and possibly even then if the football isn’t great)
I apologize to England fans, because I know how passionate you are, but it really is the impossible job.
This is another standard clueless fans debate. Fans always think they know a lot about football, but the truth is they dont know how it works at all at top level. Is he clueless? No. Is there better managers? Of course, but not many at international level.
Roy Keane said it best, fans think they know a lot because they watch a lot and some of them played sunday league
Roy Keane said it best, fans think they know a lot because they watch a lot and some of them played sunday league
You’re right about the squad, but Southgate is objectively a shit manager. If Mancini had managed England and Southgate Italy, England would be Euro champions.
He’s blagged his way to being the most successful manager since Sir Alf Ramsey.
No prem fan would be happy with him as manager.
He was a defender back in his playing days. He knows how to let his team defend well but the attacking is always slow to changes. It's always Kane basically.
A more modern coach would have fielded Tammy Abraham and DCL as subs and maybe even win the Euros. Rashford might even be an important impact sub.
A more modern coach would have fielded Tammy Abraham and DCL as subs and maybe even win the Euros. Rashford might even be an important impact sub.
Does being inferior to Mancini make him shit? Lots of squads in Europe have players at least as talented as England and do worse. What percentage of international managers do you consider "shit"?
He's exactly like Ole. He has been blessed with an outstandingly talented bunch of players who have masked his substandard coaching, and he has gotten a good atmosphere in the team by doing whatever his select group of favourite players want him to do. It worked to begin with but eventually some of them need some coaching, the mistakes start, then the doubts creep in, and as we saw with Ole the next stage is the inevitable fallouts as what some players want begins to differ from what other players want, and Southgate has to start making some actual decisions. Decisions he will get wrong, because he's a shit manager.
All it really comes down to is that we will waste yet another great generation of players because of the FA.
All it really comes down to is that we will waste yet another great generation of players because of the FA.
He should be doing more with the players he has. He's fairly shite.
Southgate is clearly limited and negative, but I agree completely on the squad. Loads of solid prem players, but precious few genuinely world class talents. I'm surprised people are describing the current squad as 'incredible'. It has QF level side written all over it.
Objectively no, compared to the other England managers since 1966. No one else has got us to a Euro Final and WC semi. Obviously he's been very lucky at times too and I don't think he'd last long in top club management, again..!
Yes, I think. I think his Euro final run was a mix of dumb luck and defensive football.
I think he is wasting a good generation of attacking talents in English football, with his footballing style and selections. A better manager would have England as one of the best teams of Europe.
But English NT is not full of stellar manager appointments. So there's that.
I think he is wasting a good generation of attacking talents in English football, with his footballing style and selections. A better manager would have England as one of the best teams of Europe.
But English NT is not full of stellar manager appointments. So there's that.
He is sh!t
It depends. He's a shit manager no doubt. An incredibly shit one in fact He basically ruined Middlesborough forever (the club, the place was already ruined due to being Middlesborough), and for England he does the exact same thing ole did for united, in picking the same people over and over in completely ignorance of what happens on the pitch. This is before you even get to tactics where his understanding doesn't go beyond pick more defenders to defend more.
When you add the word "England" into the shit manager definition though, you have to compare him to people who among other things; lost to Iceland, played Paul Scholes as a left footed winger, caused a player mutiny during a world cup, got sacked for suggesting disabled people are being punished by God, got sacked for being blatantly corrupt, allowed Gareth Barry to have an extensive England career at the expense of Michael Carrick, etc...and then you are forced to accept that the barometer of being a shit England manager is spectacularly low. I mean if England go out of the world Cup at the group stage after Southgate subs Pickford off for a piece of celery and then orders Harry Kane to set fire to himself, he'd still basically be the least shit England manager of the last 20 years.
When you add the word "England" into the shit manager definition though, you have to compare him to people who among other things; lost to Iceland, played Paul Scholes as a left footed winger, caused a player mutiny during a world cup, got sacked for suggesting disabled people are being punished by God, got sacked for being blatantly corrupt, allowed Gareth Barry to have an extensive England career at the expense of Michael Carrick, etc...and then you are forced to accept that the barometer of being a shit England manager is spectacularly low. I mean if England go out of the world Cup at the group stage after Southgate subs Pickford off for a piece of celery and then orders Harry Kane to set fire to himself, he'd still basically be the least shit England manager of the last 20 years.
As an outsider, England has a wealth of attacking options, some truly great players at the moment, and Southgate plays a back five and two holding midfielders. He doesn't even have confidence in himself that he's a great manager, or he wouldn't play such drab boring football with those players at his disposal.
He is an excellent England manager obviously.
Reaching WC SF and Euro F with Maguire and Pickford in the team is no mean feat.
Reaching WC SF and Euro F with Maguire and Pickford in the team is no mean feat.
A balance of above average results from below average tactics
The question should probably be whether he’s a good national coach as most good managers dont bother coaching national sides long term and go to clubs instead.
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he’s good. He brought you to a final. He understands the limitations of the team, and played safe to get you to the last final. Draws and luck is a big part however and if you draw about 3 good teams on the road to the final, I think you’ll go out, as the brand of football isnt very front-footed - his tactics mostly works when you’re not behind and chasing a goal and when the defensive material is okay - the defensive material just isnt good at the moment, which can be seen in his results lately.
At
Nation
Nation
National Level
he’s good. He brought you to a final. He understands the limitations of the team, and played safe to get you to the last final. Draws and luck is a big part however and if you draw about 3 good teams on the road to the final, I think you’ll go out, as the brand of football isnt very front-footed - his tactics mostly works when you’re not behind and chasing a goal and when the defensive material is okay - the defensive material just isnt good at the moment, which can be seen in his results lately.
If we draw one good team we'll go out. Like the previous tournaments.
Considering he is the most successful England manager in decades I'd say he is far from shit and has done a very good job.
Results have been good to very good but that's despite his average to below average management
Not shit, just average really which can be good enough to get far or even win a tournament.
He has a low risk setup which relies on getting goals through set pieces mainly. We don't have great players but they're good enough to find a way. The bad thing is we don't have a good style of football to fall back on and ultimately get found out by a better footballing side.
This last year or two has been quite a mess of playing various players a little bit here and there, rotating Sterling and Grealish, then playing Sterling on the right, moving in Mount and Saka, Bellingham appearing sometimes. He has options but no clear team has emerged and got dumped out the Nations League. We'll probably see more rotating hoping Sterling will hit a gold run and randomness of Grealish coming on in extra time while being the main player in the game before. I'm guessing Saka will be an automatic selection with his improved club form.
2018/19 he had a good set group in their peak. The defence provided goals from corners and had a good failsafe in a rapid Walker.
He has a low risk setup which relies on getting goals through set pieces mainly. We don't have great players but they're good enough to find a way. The bad thing is we don't have a good style of football to fall back on and ultimately get found out by a better footballing side.
This last year or two has been quite a mess of playing various players a little bit here and there, rotating Sterling and Grealish, then playing Sterling on the right, moving in Mount and Saka, Bellingham appearing sometimes. He has options but no clear team has emerged and got dumped out the Nations League. We'll probably see more rotating hoping Sterling will hit a gold run and randomness of Grealish coming on in extra time while being the main player in the game before. I'm guessing Saka will be an automatic selection with his improved club form.
2018/19 he had a good set group in their peak. The defence provided goals from corners and had a good failsafe in a rapid Walker.
Further Question
If England, with another favourable route, get to the WC Final and lose, would this change any opinion about Southgate?
If England, with another favourable route, get to the WC Final and lose, would this change any opinion about Southgate?
Southgate has fecked us. His inability cost us two unbelievable opportunities to win a major tournament. Literally we had draws that got us into position where we only had to win 2 then 1 games against good (not great, although France would’ve been tough had we got past Croatia) opposition. The Euros especially. We will never get a better chance and Mr Negative couldn’t get past himself to allow the team the opportunity to get control of the ball back from Italy.
He’s literally that self-absorbed and lacking in awareness that he simply wants 11 versions of himself on the pitch and can’t see the value in quality over runners in certain positions or at least in certain moments.
He also literally hung Rashford and Sancho out to dry by singling out Saka from the three who missed penalties and saying he doesnt deserve racial abuse. How lacking in awareness do you need to be to be condoning any of your players being racially abused?
He’s literally that self-absorbed and lacking in awareness that he simply wants 11 versions of himself on the pitch and can’t see the value in quality over runners in certain positions or at least in certain moments.
He also literally hung Rashford and Sancho out to dry by singling out Saka from the three who missed penalties and saying he doesnt deserve racial abuse. How lacking in awareness do you need to be to be condoning any of your players being racially abused?
No, he's a terrible manager and anyway England win a major tournament is if a moment of individual magic wins it.
England need to sack him after the WC and persuade Tuchel to take the job but then he'll have a Chelsea bias. I wanted Potter but he's not available.
I'm sorry, but:
Rehagel is an all-time great. He won the league twice with Bremen, once with newly-promoted Kaiserslautern, he won the domestic cup three times and the cup winners cup once too. He also had his best time some 20 to 30 years ago, when winning was the only thing that counted and few people bothered about football philosophies.
And you're trying to compare him to Gareth Southgoat? Trying to compare Greece to England? Are you trying to argue that the English squad faces the same limitations as Rehagel's Greece?
The entitlement in this thread is very strong.
Hes terrible, england have had the best team and squad at last two championships and they lost due to his negative approach.
How with Italys aging team and defence with cheillini on a yellow he didn't make subs in extra time to win. The fresh legs would have caused serious trouble. Italy couldn't believe their luck.
How with Italys aging team and defence with cheillini on a yellow he didn't make subs in extra time to win. The fresh legs would have caused serious trouble. Italy couldn't believe their luck.
Might as well close the thread now. In fact just add the above to an "FAQs" section and be done with it.