Is De Gea a bigger Man Utd legend than Peter Schmeichel?

[maximus419]

Why are pens being used as a metric constantly to judge their ability! Keepers records against penalty takers is purely down to the circumstance at the time. I believe that largely the reason de Gea has a better record is because of data available in this era. That means he's been prepared better by having all sorts of data, probability of where the opposition taker will aim for etc, that has changed a lot since Peter's time.

If people are going to cherry pick stats to back up their argument, then why has de Gea never scored a goal? I'd rather a keeper win us a game than be just a shot stopper, because that's the easy part. De Gea has never improved on his weaknesses, and he's been involved in some of the biggest defeats and worse keeper errors ever. It's laughable this is even a debate and not only that but an insult to the Great Dane.

 

[Desert Eagle]

DDG

Agree to disagree. I'd have big Pete everyday.

So assuming those are correct then Schmeichel saved 8.1% while De Gea saved 18.05%.

So unless there's been a general trend towards more penalties being saved over the years, De Gea was obviously better at penalties.

And (again assuming those numbers are correct), it highlights what I meant above about Schmeichel/Van Der Sar benefiting from not having their game forensically ripped apart statistically. Because that seems a remarkably bad record on Schmeichel's part.

Data has obviously helped keepers in the modern game but even that stat is incomplete as for some reason it doesn't include shootouts.

 

[sullydnl]

Agree to disagree. I'd have big Pete everyday.



Data has obviously helped keepers in the modern game but even that stat is incomplete as for some reason it doesn't include shootouts.

Do you have links to anything showing that?

It did occur to me that data might have improved save rate but then I wasn't sure why penalty takers themselves wouldn't also have benefited from it.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Do you have links to anything showing that?

It did occur to me that data might have improved save rate but then I wasn't sure why penalty takers themselves wouldn't also have benefited from it.

I could only find things like penalty cheat sheets and an article in a German sports science journal tbf so like you say it's probably not conclusive though it feels intuitive that better technology and advancements in sports science would help the keeper and also the shooter.

 

[cafecillos]

Did he make any saves yesterday? I didn't see the full match, but at least a couple of those goals looked fairly stoppable. Even considering the atrocious defending and general disinterest of some of the field players (the sixth goal in particular is a fecking disgrace), many other keepers would probably have managed to make the result less embarrassing by themselves. He wasn't the main culprit, but did absolutely nothing to stop the bleeding either.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Did he make any saves yesterday? I didn't see the full match, but at least a couple of those goals looked fairly stoppable. Even considering the atrocious defending and general disinterest of some of the field players (the sixth goal in particular is a fecking disgrace), many other keepers would probably have managed to make the result less embarrassing by themselves. He wasn't the main culprit, but did absolutely nothing to stop the bleeding either.

Every shot on target was a goal. It can't make things easy. De Gea I think in particular has mental problems with Liverpool. It's weird because he's kept clean sheets in European finals and can't be said to be any less a big game player for that, but against Liverpool he just doesn't make saves -at all-.

He's a club legend and he's shut me up that's for sure, and deserves better than the shit he's had in front of him at times, but there's no doubt in my mind that it's almost PTSD at this point for him + some of our squad when it comes to playing some clubs.

 

[Pronewbie]

Did he make any saves yesterday? I didn't see the full match, but at least a couple of those goals looked fairly stoppable. Even considering the atrocious defending and general disinterest of some of the field players (the sixth goal in particular is a fecking disgrace), many other keepers would probably have managed to make the result less embarrassing by themselves. He wasn't the main culprit, but did absolutely nothing to stop the bleeding either.

Let's save this for the performance thread.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Every shot on target was a goal. It can't make things easy. De Gea I think in particular has mental problems with Liverpool. It's weird because he's kept clean sheets in European finals and can't be said to be any less a big game player for that, but against Liverpool he just doesn't make saves -at all-

One of his best ever games was against Liverpool many years ago. But yeah he hasn’t been great against them recently.

 

[cafecillos]

Let's save this for the performance thread.

You are right, sorry, I didn't realise I was in a different thread.

 

[YikesSchmeics]

Dave has been a great servant to the club, but he has stood in goals for some of our worst hidings in modern history.

1-6, 6-3 and numerous 4s vs City, 0-5, 4-0 and 7-0 vs Liverpool, all those 4 nils last season.

He may hold the clean sheet record, but it also feels like he must hold some kind of records for number of hidings. We have shipped 4 or more in 9 of our last 57 games and I believe he was in goal for all of them. That's utterly unacceptable. Not saying they are his fault but he has to be held accountable too.

Big Pete had some too (5-0 Toon, 6-3 Soton etc) but generally they were a rare occurrence.... he was a huge character and kept his back 4 in check, as well as being a class player, he was a leader and defenders were kept on their toes by his presence.

Not close for me at all. Big Pete all the way.

 

[grahamo]

Big Pete all day long. He read the game well. He turned defence into attack in seconds. He closed the angle on attackers, He wasn't afraid to come off his line, He was rarely, if ever, beaten at his near post. He was a real leader and very intimidating. Peter Schmeichel wins by a country mile

 

[NicolaSacco]

Agree to disagree. I'd have big Pete everyday.



Data has obviously helped keepers in the modern game but even that stat is incomplete as for some reason it doesn't include shootouts.

Yeah, I’d imagine that those 11 or whatever penalties he didn’t save in the Europa will change those figures somewhat.

Also worth noting that the rules around what keepers can do has been made stricter with regard to leaving their line so in that sense he has it more difficult.


I’d like to see the stats for Scmiechel though. The average is around 80/20 for scored/saved respectively, so if he’s really on 8% then I think it’s safe to say penalties were not one of his strengths.

 

[GueRed]

No

 

[aganley]

No

I'll raise you a No - No

 

[Sylar]

 

[Oranges038]

Yeah, I’d imagine that those 11 or whatever penalties he didn’t save in the Europa will change those figures somewhat.

Also worth noting that the rules around what keepers can do has been made stricter with regard to leaving their line so in that sense he has it more difficult.


I’d like to see the stats for Scmiechel though. The average is around 80/20 for scored/saved respectively, so if he’s really on 8% then I think it’s safe to say penalties were not one of his strengths.

He only saved 1 for Utd, Bergkamp FA cup semi final.

I think he only saved 3 in game penalties over his whole career.

 

[NicolaSacco]

He only saved 1 for Utd, Bergkamp FA cup semi final.

I think he only saved 3 in game penalties over his whole career.

That’s a crazy statistic for a player who was an absolute giant of the game.

 

[Zico1982]

Peter Schmeichel was one of the best keepers of all time. He won everything with United and titles with Denmark, Bröndby and Sporting Lissabon as well. He is also in pretty much every All-Time Premier League Team around. He is only comparable to legends like Lev Yashin, Buffon, Kahn, Casillas and Neuer. Van der Saar was top five in the world in his prime. De Gea is an absolute incredible shot stopper (last game aside), but he is weak in the box. The spaniard is nowhere near Schmeichel. His reflexes are spectacular though.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

He only saved 1 for Utd, Bergkamp FA cup semi final.

I think he only saved 3 in game penalties over his whole career.

Stopped one from Marco van Basten in the semi final of Euro ‘92 on his way to the European title with Denmark.