International peak draft

[Annahnomoss]

You were the hardest to predict for me as I didn't know if you will try the straightforward approach(picking LCB and RCB) or do something completely different, so at least it's easier to predict your line up based on the reinforcement round

I still have to decide which centre back to play but the rest is pretty clear. Nilsson from the fourth place '38 team or Gustavsson.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Eusébio 2. A. Brehme 3. M. Desailly 4. O. Varela 5. J. Tigana 6. G. Bergomi 7. P. Nedvěd 8. A. Robben 9. H. Chumpitaz 10. O. Kahn 11. L. Suárez 12. Zizinho 13. M. Kaltz 14. G. Sárosi 15. D. Maradona 16. F. Baresi 17. M. van Basten 18. Cafú

Ffs give others a chance won't you . That defense, with Maradona in near-perfect set-up

 

[Gio]

Think it was combination of both, not solely on his defensive contribution in that WC. I disagree on the notion he didn't advance all that much. Of course he wasn't a wing back in the South American terms, but it is natural since France played in a back 4 so he had to be a balanced full back and the team relied both in him supporting the attack and being solid at the back.

Karembeau only featured in about game in a half or something, remember he didn't feature all that much and France's solidity at the back was highlighted by Deschamps sitting in front of the defence and having industrious CM ahead of him also protecting the back 4.

Thought both him and Lizarazu were excellent going forward and providing that balance in the team with a lot of supporting cast and team players like Guivarch, Diomande, Boghossian and Karembeau all featuring at some stage.

Thuram was excellent going forward not only against Croatia, but also against Italy, Paraguay and even in the final from what I remember. It obviously needed him to tuck in at some phases during the games as Desailly and Blanc? were send off in the knockout stages.

Obviously being at the RCB is great fit for him in terms of peak level and that's his best position, but IMO that's more at club level or the 2006 WC as Raees mentioned. I thought you guys would go with Djalma from the off as he is technically brilliant and perfect fit for 3-5-2 RCB position.

But better leave it for the games as they are bound to be very interesting.

Irrespective of your take on him - whether that's a tucked in full-back or a 'rampaging' wing-back - there are at least half a dozen fits that could be questioned in the semi-finals. For example, your own Stoichkov was not a restricted left forward but rampaged all over the attack and predominantly penetrated through the middle. But we give you some leeway in that respect because it's next to impossible to pick an entire XI in the very same set-up they shone in. The closer the replication the better, but as long as you've built a team that allows the defining feature(s) of their game at that tournament to shine, then you're good to go IMO.

 

[Gio]

@Gio @Theon - we meet again! Want to play on the weekend?

Full up with football on Saturday. But could do an early KO on Friday if that's okay? If not, would need to hold back until after Saturday.

 

[Raees]

Full up with football on Saturday. But could do an early KO on Friday if that's okay? If not, would need to hold back until after Saturday.

we'll wait then mate, better not to rush it. Just let me know by Sunday where you guys are timewise, but me and invictus will look to get our writeup done over weekend.

 

[Enigma_87]

Irrespective of your take on him - whether that's a tucked in full-back or a 'rampaging' wing-back - there are at least half a dozen fits that could be questioned in the semi-finals. For example, your own Stoichkov was not a restricted left forward but rampaged all over the attack and predominantly penetrated through the middle. But we give you some leeway in that respect because it's next to impossible to pick an entire XI in the very same set-up they shone in. The closer the replication the better, but as long as you've built a team that allows the defining feature(s) of their game at that tournament to shine, then you're good to go IMO.

Yeah of course Stoichkov was in free role as I mentioned in all games so far. There's no doubt that there will be overlaps in some positions as we aren't recreating a particular side or team so no doubt it will require some fitting in. As I said Thuram in RCB is natural as it gets, he even said it himself that he preferred centrally, just that particular tournament he was playing as a right back and was instrumental for his team opting for Lippi to later using him more often as a RB or even wing back at Juve based on (not only of course) that performance.

I'm far from the idea that all players will be perfect fits in an all time draft there will be some points that would be made, but the most important thing is as you said is based on the form/qualities they've shown in the particular tournament and the formation/style your team is playing to fit them as good as you can.

 

[harms]

Enigma 1. G. Müller 2. B. Moore 3. P. Maldini 4. Didi 5. H. Stoichkov 6. M. Amoros 7. Z. Boniek 8. C. Makélélé 9. S. Campbell 10. M. Ballack 11. U. Fillol 12. G. Hagi 13. R. Ayala 14. C. Ronaldo 15. Pelé 16. E. Figueroa 17. F. Beckenbauer
18. G. Facchetti

Good old attacking football

 

[Enigma_87]

@harms you missed Campbell

 

[harms]

@harms you missed Campbell

Nah, I tried to create a functional team

Makelele will cover the ground in midfield and with Pele and Muller upfront you are guaranteed to score at least 1 (probably two) goals.

 

[Annahnomoss]

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

 

[Enigma_87]

Nah, I tried to create a functional team

Makelele will cover the ground in midfield and with Pele and Muller upfront you are guaranteed to score at least 1 (probably two) goals.

Who needs Pele when we have Muller. Put Campbell behind Makelele to fill the "gap" and let Figueroa, Moore and Beckenbauer lump it forward to Muller.

You can't move that bus.

@Annahnomoss write up sent. I'm ok with even earlier kick off 10-11AM if you are also ok with it.

 

[harms]

Who needs Pele when we have Muller. Put Campbell behind Makelele to fill the "gap" and let Figueroa, Moore and Beckenbauer lump it forward to Muller.

You can't move that bus.

@Annahnomoss write up sent. I'm ok with even earlier kick off 10-11AM if you are also ok with it.

Yeah, I considered dropping Pele for Campbell. Mainly because I needed a strong experienced leader to organize that defence, and who is more deserving of a captain's armband than Sol?

 

[Annahnomoss]

Who needs Pele when we have Muller. Put Campbell behind Makelele to fill the "gap" and let Figueroa, Moore and Beckenbauer lump it forward to Muller.

You can't move that bus.

@Annahnomoss write up sent. I'm ok with even earlier kick off 10-11AM if you are also ok with it.

Alright! Mine is sent. I can set the game up if you send it to me too, otherwise we wait for GS.

 

[Enigma_87]

Alright! Mine is sent. I can set the game up if you send it to me too, otherwise we wait for GS.

Invited you to the convo. Fire it up mate.

 

[Theon]

Just caught up with this thread and surprised at the comments on Thuram - seems strange given that every manager has players in different systems to the one they played in reality.

The question is surely whether the player has the skillset and ability to play in the position and in that sense Thuram is a perfect fit. He obviously excelled as both a centre back (in two and three man defences for both Parma and Juventus) and as a right back - he's literally the gold standard when it comes to that RCB position.

And for the national side he was excellent as both as a RB and a CB. He's quite clearly demonstrated the skillset to play in that RCB role and if France had played a 3-5-2 would have been a shoe-in for the position.

As a side point, I'm not sure there is too much difference anyway between a defensively excellent right back and a right centre back.

Thought Gio would go with another CB, but if putting Thuram as RCB - would you need to refer to the 2006 version?

Bergomi lined up as a right back in 1988 (and roamed all over the pitch, with Ferri and Baresi central) but you played him as a RCB in your last game.

 

[Raees]

Just caught up with this thread and surprised at the comments on Thuram - seems strange given that every manager has players in different systems to the one they played in reality.

The question is surely whether the player has the skillset and ability to play in the position and in that sense Thuram is a perfect fit. He obviously excelled as both a centre back (in two and three man defences for both Parma and Juventus) and as a right back - he's literally the gold standard when it comes to that RCB position.

And for the national side he was excellent as both as a RB and a CB. He's quite clearly demonstrated the skillset to play in that RCB role and if France had played a 3-5-2 would have been a shoe-in for the position.

As a side point, I'm not sure there is too much difference anyway between a defensively excellent right back and a right centre back.



Bergomi lined up as a right back in 1988 (and roamed all over the pitch, with Ferri and Baresi central) but you played him as a RCB in your last game.

It was more out of curiosity, rather than a point to bash you with.. we're hardly going to refer to that in our match thread as end of the day Thuram is a brilliant defender.

Just on the Bergomi point, the difference is that he was famous for his man-marking of Kalle in the 82 final and for being one of the all time great defensive right backs and his international performances reflected that. At RCB, or RB, he was a defensive right back first and foremost.

Whereas with Thuram, the 98 version played in a diamond/Xmas tree and the full backs were relied upon to provide width and he provided GOAT class width (scoring key goals) and getting forward. So I don't think comparing it to Bergomi makes sense. No chance Bergomi would be found in the positions Thuram was (or be able to execute those finishes in all fairness haha!)

 

[Enigma_87]

@Theon it wasn't supposed to be a bashing or critique of any sort mate. If the RCB position is something you associate someone with that's Thuram. It's not like you would be sporting him outside position or anything. I was purely making comments on the base of his 1998 WC and his contribution and style of play, not that he can't play at RCB or making some dig at you guys. Far from it.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Bergomi lined up as a right back in 1988 (and roamed all over the pitch, with Ferri and Baresi central) but you played him as a RCB in your last game

Nah you've got it the other way around. It was Ferri who played the roaming role with Bergomi playing the tucked in RCB role to perfection. Slots in seamlessly in Raees/Invictus's side.

Bergomi played both the CB and RCB roles with Ferri functioning as a roaming CB (Gentile/Picchi) of sorts, plugging in gaps and doubling up on players out wide etc. Throughout the match you'd find Bergomi-Baresi being the central pair with Ferri roaming and Maldini as the LB. Or a settled back 4 of Maldini-Baresi-Ferri-Bergomi with Bergomi as the RCB. So there is no reason to not use him as a CB here as he did, more often than not, function as one for Italy in Euro 1988 although in a typically convoluted style that the damn Italian defenses seem to employ.

Bergomi played both the CB and RCB roles with Ferri functioning as a roaming CB (Gentile/Picchi) of sorts, plugging in gaps and doubling up on players out wide etc. Throughout the match you'd find Bergomi-Baresi being the central pair with Ferri roaming and Maldini as the LB. Or a settled back 4 of Maldini-Baresi-Ferri-Bergomi with Bergomi as the RCB. So there is no reason to not use him as a CB here as he did, more often than not, function as one for Italy in Euro 1988 although in a typically convoluted style that the damn Italian defenses seem to employ.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

What's happening?

@harms you missed Campbell

He'd have made it if he was white

 

[Physiocrat]

This is taking longer than the tax man takes to give you a rebate.

 

[Gio]

@Raees When do you want to play?

 

[Joga Bonito]

This is taking longer than the tax man takes to give you a rebate.

 

[Raees]

@Raees When do you want to play?

Write up will be submitted by today, so anytime tonight or tomorrow. Have you finished yours/submitted?

 

[Gio]

Write up will be submitted by today, so anytime tonight or tomorrow. Have you finished yours/submitted?

Aye that's fine with me.

 

[Enigma_87]

He'd have made it if he was white

Didn't look it from that angle.

 

[Physiocrat]

Final time!

 

[harms]

@Gio has the first pick? Would've been far more entertaining for the neutrals if @Enigma_87 had the first one

 

[Annahnomoss]

International Peak Draft

Final teams:

Enigma 1. G. Müller 2. B. Moore 3. P. Maldini 4. Didi 5. H. Stoichkov 6. M. Amoros 7. Z. Boniek 8. C. Makélélé 9. S. Campbell 10. M. Ballack 11. U. Fillol 12. G. Hagi 13. R. Ayala 14. C. Ronaldo 15. Pelé 16. E. Figueroa 17. F. Beckenbauer
18. G. Facchetti
Gio/Theon 1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Sammer 3. Z. Zidane 4. R. Carlos 5. D. Džajić 6. B. Schweinsteiger 7. J. Zanetti 8. P. Schmeichel 9. C. Gamarra 10. C. Vieri 11. G. Buchwald 12. Leonidas 13. J. M. Moreno 14. T. Silva 15. L. Ronaldo 16. F. Cannavaro 17. Cruyff 18. L. Thuram

Reminder: Please don't hesitate to leave your pick to somebody (Annah, GreenSmiley or somebody else) if you expect to be busy while your turn is coming up.

Players available for reinforcements:

EAP 3. L. Messi 4. J. Masopust 5. B. Schuster 6. U. Seeler 7. O. Ruggeri 8. F. Collovati 9. H.P. Briegel 10. N. Stiles 11. D. Zoff 12. D. Forlan 13. S. Busquets 14. D. Da Guia 15 J. Neeskens 16. R. Gullit

Sjor/Physio 3. A. Iniesta 4. L. Figo 5. P. Lahm 6. M. Coluna 7. J. Nasazzi 8. T. Cubillas 9. G. Batistuta 10. L. Yashin 11. N. Hidegkuti 12. Y. Zhirkov 13. A. Giresse 14. Julinho

Isotope 2. E. Davids 3. R. Baggio 5. D. Passarella 6. C. Gentile 7. A. Nesta 8. I. Netto 9. L. Júnior 10. G. Banks 11. J. Angloma 12. D. Deschamps 13. A. Tarantini 14. A. Vidal

2Mufc0 2. P. Rossi 3. R. Rivellino 4. R. Koeman 5. Dunga 6. G. Zambrotta 7. A. Pirlo 8. E. Abidal 9. T. Müller 10. M. Neuer 11. HG Schwarzenbeck 12. S. Pluskal 13. A. Sanchez 14. A. Shearer

Pat Mustard 4. M. Kempes 5. B. Lizarazu 6. P. Elkjaer 7. P. McGrath 8. S. Lerby 9. A. Ghiggia 10. J. Chilavert 11. L. Fernandez 12. J. Schiaffino 13. Jorginho 14. T. Hassler

Skizzo 2. Rivaldo 3. Ronaldinho 4. A. Cabrini 5. 6. T. Burgnich 7. M. Tardelli 8. G. Buffon 9. M. Senna 10. M. Olsen 11. Maicon 12. T. Zagorakis 13. H. Szymaniak 14. R. Milla

Onenil 3. R. Krol 6. W. van Hanegem 7. B. Laudrup 8. P. Vieira 9. E. Gerets 10. M. Overmars 11. D. Seaman 12. K. Poborský 13. P. Gascoigne 14. H. Myung-bo

Mazhar/Arbitrium 1. Jairzinho 3. Zico 4. 5. Gérson 6. W. Schulz 7. D. Villa 8. M. Bossis 9. C. Puyol 10. Neymar 11. Gilmar 12. Denilson 13. Clodoaldo 14. L. Eyzaguirre

Joga Bonito 3. P. Falcao 4. B. Charlton 5. K. Rummenigge 6. B. Vogts 7. KH Förster 8. Z. Czibor 9. J. Klinsmann 10. 11. H. Schumacher 12. B. Conti 13. W. Overath 14. Careca

DownCast 1. J. Fontaine 2. R. Kopa 3. T. Henry 4. L. Blanc 5. G. Netzer 6. KH Schnellinger 7. Zito 8. J. L. Andrade 9. H. Rahn 10. F. Albert 11. L. Mazurkiewicz 12. M. Khurtsilava 13. A. Ancheta 14. R. Perfumo 15. P. Breitner

Tuppet 1. M. Garrincha 2. Romario 3. N. Santos 4. F. Puskas 5. J. Bozsik 6. V. R Andrade 7. J. Santamaria 8. M. Zagallo 9. J. Mascherano 10. A. Shesternyov 11. S. Maier 12. E. Francescoli 13. F. Redondo 14. R. Orsi 15. M. Platini 16. S. Kocsis

Moby 1. Xavi 2. G. Scirea 3. C. Alberto 4. L. Suárez Miramontes 5. G. Meazza 6. G. Lato 7. L. Monti 8. J. Stam 9. R. Rensenbrink 10. S. Marzolini 11. W. Zenga 12. D. Suker 13. P. Littbarski 14. R. Ferri


Raees/Invictus 1. Eusébio 2. A. Brehme 3. M. Desailly 4. O. Varela 5. J. Tigana 6. G. Bergomi 7. P. Nedvěd 8. A. Robben 9. H. Chumpitaz 10. O. Kahn 11. L. Suárez 12. Zizinho 13. M. Kaltz 14. G. Sárosi 15. D. Maradona 16. F. Baresi 17. M. van Basten 18. Cafú

Annahnomoss 1. K. Hamrin 2. N. Liedholm 3. G. Nordahl 4. G. Gren 5. L. Skoglund 6. O. Bergmark 7. E. Nilsson 8. B. Gustavsson 9. S. Andersson 10. B. Rosengren 11. K. Svensson 12. P. Kock 13. K. Rosén 14. A. Simonsson 15. F. Rijkaard 16. V. Voronin 17. Kohler 18. Djalma Santos

 

[Annahnomoss]

Group 1

1. Gio/Theon
2. Enigma

 

[Enigma_87]

@Gio has the first pick? Would've been far more entertaining for the neutrals if @Enigma_87 had the first one

Think we shouldn't overlap in our picks but you never know.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Gio is in the final for another draft? Dude needs to be banned or auto kicked out at Semi's hereon.

 

[harms]

Gio is in the final for another draft? Dude needs to be banned or auto kicked out at Semi's hereon.

We can start having non-Gio winners - just award whoever finished as a runner up

 

[Enigma_87]

@Gio picking any time soon lads as I might call it a day in hour or so?

 

[Gio]

@Enigma_87 When do you want to play?

 

[harms]

I like how well-thought that decision was.

And I was genuinely curious - given a chance, would @Enigma_87 have passed up on him? Or use 1958 Pele and Müller ahead of him? We'll never know now, it's obvious that he'll just add Baresi to Beckenbauer, Figueroa and Moore

 

[Moby]

it's obvious that he'll just add Baresi to Beckenbauer, Figueroa and Moore

 

[Theon]

I like how well-thought that decision was.

And I was genuinely curious - given a chance, would @Enigma_87 have passed up on him? Or use 1958 Pele and Müller ahead of him? We'll never know now, it's obvious that he'll just add Baresi to Beckenbauer, Figueroa and Moore

I don't think Enigma would have picked Maradona, but as a general comment Maradona behind Pele and Muller would be pretty much the perfect front three. I don't quite buy all of the criticisms that get thrown around in these drafts about having 'too many cooks' or 'overlapping roles' etc, but at the same time it's clear that those three would be particularly complimentary.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I like how well-thought that decision was.

And I was genuinely curious - given a chance, would @Enigma_87 have passed up on him? Or use 1958 Pele and Müller ahead of him? We'll never know now, it's obvious that he'll just add Baresi to Beckenbauer, Figueroa and Moore

Those 3 would have been great together imo in Enigma's set up. Didi-Maradona wouldn't have been optimal imo but yeah, the forward trio would have worked quite nicely with the directness of the 58 Pele, the selfless Müller and of course Maradona given full responsibility and freedom to strut his stuff without another playmaker potentially stepping on his toes.

 

[Enigma_87]

I like how well-thought that decision was.

And I was genuinely curious - given a chance, would @Enigma_87 have passed up on him? Or use 1958 Pele and Müller ahead of him? We'll never know now, it's obvious that he'll just add Baresi to Beckenbauer, Figueroa and Moore

Scirea sounds very tempting

I thought picking Maradona of course, but will have had to use the 58 version of Pele so it would be one peak player instead of the other and generally I'm not a fan of peak Pele and peak Maradona on the same pitch it's one or the other.

Will pick shortly mulling over Eusebio and van Basten.