Zidane, all day long.
Iniesta vs Zidane
- Thread starter TheNewEra
- Start date
This sums it up.
As good as Iniesta was/is, he's nowhere near the maestro. Plus, imho, he was a bit boring to watch at times.
I can understand people arguing "X is better than Y" or whatever but "Iniesta was boring to watch" is an outright vile opinion. Bloody phillistines.
Cant help but wonder if Iniesta is overshadowed by playing in the Messi Ronaldo era. He was an amazing player, but if one of your teammates is Messi you're not going to get a lot of attention.
I will forever hate him for 2010 though.
I will forever hate him for 2010 though.
People get overly swayed by the one off moments of brilliance. To each their own, but that's the only reason why... Actually, nvm
Not only that, there’s almost a feeling that a lot of people can’t seperate him from the package (playing next to Xavi for the majority of his career).
He was a brilliant footballer and a match winner in his own right.
Zidane, I'll give you. Thing is from 2003 he was more of a relic and his reputation was based on previous achievements. No one really considered him as good as before during that period. Scholes, just no. No one where I'm from mentioned him at all, let alone in that breath. United's fairly lacklustre performance in Europe from 2003-2006 hardly helped.
Xavi would have a very strong case of being the BPTIW from the age of thirty to thirty two, thing is there were certain Messi and Ronaldo to compete with. Pit Zidane against them, the result would have been the same. Zidane's competitors, as good as they were at the time, simply are nowhere near these two, it's that simple.
Yep.
If we use the years in and around his three appearances in the top three places for the Ballon D'Or as the mark of Zidane's "peak", his fellow competitors at that time were the likes of Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Figo, Mijatovic, Suker, Beckham, Shevchenko, Owen, Raul, Kahn. Quality players though they are, few on that list would really rival Zidane/Xavi imo.
Whereas in the years in and around Xavi's three appearances in the top three he was almost exclusively competing with Messi, Ronaldo and Iniesta, players who either do compare with Zidane/Xavi or are actively better than them. I think Torres might have popped up once maybe at his very best?
Del Piero was without question the most important player for Juventus from 1996 to 1998. When Del Piero did his knee in November 1998, Juventus went from 1st to 6th in Serie A. Guess what? Zidane was still playing that season.
When Zidane left Juventus, they replaced him with Nedved who did everything Zidane did plus more. From 2001-2006, Nedved scored more goals, more assists, and had superior defensive workrate to Zidane from 1996-2001. Nedved was objectively better for Juventus that Zidane was.
Number of chances created at the World Cup (Opta):
Xavi (2010) - 30
Pirlo (2006) - 24
Zidane (1998) - 14
Zidane (2006) - 12
There's a reason Iniesta started his career with Barcelona instead of Albacete or Malaga. It's not like he was born in the Camp Nou and somehow a random coach adopted him.
And to the second point, surely Iniesta isn't as good as Zidane and Xavi was never rated as one of the best players, but somehow once both of them clicked there's 100 points leagues, UCL titles and 3 international trophies in a row for Spain. It's like saying Jack Daniels and Coca Cola are "not that special" but when mixed they're absolutely the best drink in the history of mankind.
Zidane for me. He was magical at times. This is probably an opinion based on nostalgia but I loved watching him on channel 4 for Juve and after that for real.
Also his performance in World Cup 2006 was one of the best performances I have ever seen in an international tournament. Possibly the best tournament of anyone over the age of 30 in a World Cup. Shame about the headbutt. France would have won with him on the pitch.
Also his performance in World Cup 2006 was one of the best performances I have ever seen in an international tournament. Possibly the best tournament of anyone over the age of 30 in a World Cup. Shame about the headbutt. France would have won with him on the pitch.
Unpopular opinion: Cannavaro was 32 in 2006 and he actually had a better World Cup than Zidane.
He wasn't. Juve had Boksic who was a monster, and also a young Vieri who was very good. Boksic and Vieri were the preferred starters. For example, Del Piero came on a second half substitute in the CL final vs. Dortmund. In 98, Vieri was sold for a record fee to Atletico and Inzaghi was brought on, and Del Piero was progressively taking on more duties. However, Zidane was still the regista. He made the team click.
As for Juve's collapse in 98, it due to many factors - Lippi had moved on and Ancelotti was cutting his teeth and generally had no clue. He didn't know what to do with Henry for example (sold him to Arsenal, after playing him as a winger) and surrendered two subsequent scudettos whilst being in the lead. He was fired afterwards.
As for Nevded, he was good, but Zidane was miles better. Juve sold Inzaghi / Zidane and bought Nedved, Thuram and Buffon. In terms of style of play it was Capello 101 - a combative, rigid, and much uglier team. I used to follow Juve, and couldn't warm up to that team.
feck that juiced up motherfecker.
Materazzi was better than Cannavaro - tied the final and got Zizou off.
I disagree. Scholes and Iniesta are the best two I've seen. No problem with those rating Iniesta higher, but I'd never agree to "head and shoulders above Scholes". To each their own, though!
Yep!Xavi below Iniesta and ScholesI have heard it all now.
Oh, yes!Not this nonsense again......
Juve were a clusterfeck that season. The reason, aside from losing Del Piero, was the managerial situation. Once thy sacked Lippi and got Ancelotti in(about 6 months earlier than planned), they turned it around. Just not enough, and too late. They also, quite literally, became a 2 men team. Zidane+Davids+9
Except this is also bs. Nedved played in better teams, with better players, and never had the kind of impact or importance to the team as Zidane. In those seasons you're talking about: 01/02 Nedved was abysmal. He was considered the biggest dud of the year until the final two weeks. 02/03 he was indeed fantastic. 03/04 check out juventus' season...04/05 and 05/06, Ibra was their best player, by far. When it wasn't Ibra, it was Del Piero
Euro 2008, his breakthrough onto the world stage, Spain's team had Casillas (Real) Capdevilla (Villareal), Marchena(Valencia), Puyol (Barcelona), Ramos (Real), Iniesta (Barca) Xavi (Barca) Senna (Villareal) Silva (Valencia) Torres (Liverpool) Villa (Valencia) so 5 players from the top 2 in Spain.
Please note that Xavi is 6 years younger than Scholes and 8 years the junior of Zidane. why would he be mentioned in the same breath when he comes from a completely different generation? comparing 32 year old players who have a whole career behind them to someone in their 20's. Makes sense.
Better scouting systems in the 90's compared with the 80's allowing for top young players to be snapped up sooner?
Iniesta will go down as one of the greatest ever players for sure and you make a great point about Jack Daniels. How could he not go down as one of history's greats when he helped dominate football at club level, internationally and in europe for years. history will look at him much kinder in say 20-30 years.
And there's a reason Zidane started at Cannes. France didn't have a single club on the level of Barcelona when it comes to the academy.
Also your point is silly, countless players went through Barcelona and turned out bang average too, It's not like It's a feat to get into the academy.
Iniesta definitely wasn't as good as Zidane.
Xavi was never rated world class before 2008/09. At 28 he was just another good player in the eyes of the world, It's Pep and Messi that took his career to the next level.
Getting 90+ points became the standarts in the early 2010s, Madrid and Barca started consistently doing it with even Atletico reaching 90 points in 2014.
Barca literally won a treble with Xavi being a bench player, you are vastly overrating his importance to Barca's success.
The key factor is Messi, It's always been Messi, he is the one scoring 50+ goals every season and getting 15/20 assists on top of that.
Spain dominated without Messi. The key regular feature for both club and country who was always one of the top2 performers was Xavi. Madrid fan by any chance?
You can draw a parallel between Xavi's peak years, including his eventual decline, with the success and fall of both Spain and the possession game of Barcelona. Spain became the most successful international team of all time in winning three consecutive major trophies between 2008 and 2012 when Xavi was at his peak. That period of dominance started before he'd kicked a ball for Guardiola when he was player of the tournament at Euro 2008, in a system which was more fluid and direct than that what followed. And since he declined after 2012, Spain have been nowhere on the international scene. At club level, few people would argue with Barcelona 2008-2011 being one of if not the greatest club sides of all time and once again those years mirror Xavi's peak. Once he declined, Barcelona weren't the same force and, despite their best efforts, couldn't replicate his role in their system. So much so that they had to switch to a more transition-based style of play to become successful in the Champions League again. And at both club and international level, even within those peak years, you can pinpoint the odd game where Xavi was missing and see the clear disjoint in the system and the reduced performance level that followed. Spain become notorious for losing their shit when he wasn't available, despite having a plethora of central playmaking midfielders to call upon. Xavi wasn't just successful because of the system Guardiola developed. He was the system.
All the greatest players have atleast one outstanding worldcup..
Some starred in more than one
Pele..58....70
Maradona..86..
Cruyff 74..
Backenauer 74
Zidane...2006
Platin..82.86
I dont think players like iniesta..xavi..are in that catagory.
Some starred in more than one
Pele..58....70
Maradona..86..
Cruyff 74..
Backenauer 74
Zidane...2006
Platin..82.86
I dont think players like iniesta..xavi..are in that catagory.
Iniesta was pretty boring. Even if he was the best player in the world I’d think he was boring. It’s just that whole era of Barca dominance was a very boring style of play. They just passed it in triangles and topped it off with a goal.
I have this feeling certain United and English fans literally go out of their way to put down scholes in comparison to Iniesta. I don’t know what it is if it makes them feel more “critical” and “knowledgeable” but any Barca fan I’ve talked to will rate scholes really high. Obviously they’d pick Iniesta but it wouldn’t be a joke or anything to them.
After all Iniesta was asking scholes for his shirt in the final of the champions league.
After all Iniesta was asking scholes for his shirt in the final of the champions league.
Some people have no appreciation for beauty. *shakes head sadly*
Iniesta accomplished nothing with Spain that Zidane didn't do with France so how is it relevant to the debate exactly?
Some people can’t accept beauty is subjective
It's because a number of united fans have severed all contact with reality when it comes to Scholes, preferring to build up a mythology based on hearsay, player comments and a fuzzy conglomeration of longevity, fusing all the best of his 20 seasons into one and then multiplying that by 20. But when it comes to actually looking at his body of work and personal achievements, you know the way all other players except scholes are actually evaluated, they can't name seasons where he stood anywhere near the piedestal he stands on in his mythologised version nor point to individual achievements that reflect it either. When people go out of their way to refute it, it is simply a healthy reaction to a kind of collective insanity and the threat that it might spread to a wider sphere.
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I get that people found Xavi boring but there can be no doubt that his peak as a midfielder was a sustained period of dominance that no other midfielder has ever come close to replicating. For a period of six years, he dominated midfield in every single game he played. For club and country. There has never been a midfielder in history like him where midfield dominance was a foregone conclusion in every game he played. No one could ensure this in such an emphatic and consistent manner before his peak and when his peak dwindled, so did the emphatic dominance that came with him. I can't think of any midfielder in history capable of besting him in midfield.
Also probably the only player I've ever seen who simply couldn't be forced into making a mistake.
Also probably the only player I've ever seen who simply couldn't be forced into making a mistake.
Kind of like Xavi then. There are no stepovers, bicycle kicks, fancy tricks or curling strikes in his highlight reel. It's tough to point out any one season or game where he was the glittering star, but everyone who knows football knew he was the one who brought together all the stars in Spain and Barcelona and allowed them to do what they do. Why dribble past one player when you can take half the team out with a first touch and a pass? Scholes was the same for Manchester United, although obviously he couldn't get the better of Xavi and we couldn't get the better of Barcelona. He had the measure of every other team in Europe though.
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You perhaps have a point regarding Del Piero, but not by fecking Inzaghi
So now Iniesta is boring?
In that case, never watch another 90 minute game of football and just stick to 6 minutes or less highlight videos.
Probably one of the most outright wrong and idiotic things I’ve ever read concerning football. Fortunate enough to have been able to see him play live half a dozen times and boring is at the completely opposite end of the spectrum in terms of how he made me and the 90,000 fans around me feel. Guys a fecking joy to watch.
So boring.
In that case, never watch another 90 minute game of football and just stick to 6 minutes or less highlight videos.
Probably one of the most outright wrong and idiotic things I’ve ever read concerning football. Fortunate enough to have been able to see him play live half a dozen times and boring is at the completely opposite end of the spectrum in terms of how he made me and the 90,000 fans around me feel. Guys a fecking joy to watch.
So boring.
Not to the same level of dominance of Xavi. Definitely in England though.
There is some sort of overcompensation on both sides when it comes to Scholes with English fans. Most fans elsewhere wouldn't have any issues putting him in that caliber, even if he ranks behind most of the mentioned names.
They won 2 Euros and 1 World Cup in 4 years without Messi...
Euro 2008 happened before Pep too
Going by that logic, Messi and C.Ronaldo aren’t 2 of the greatest players in the history of the sport.
For years Xavi and Iniesta dominated every team they’ve come up against on a club level as well as on a national level, they’ve made very good and great teams look like sunday league sides week in week out, and that is beyond impressive.
Messi is still going strong and Barcelona as well as Spain still have a great group of players, but they simply can’t do that anymore.
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Agreed.
I won’t say that any of Platini’s campaigns was better than Xavi’s or Iniesta’s 2010.
I don't know how anyone could find Xavi boring and then turn around and enjoy Scholes.
2009 CL final (the one when Rooney said Messi and Ronaldo are not the 2 best in the world, as it's as Xavi and Iniesta, directly after we couldn't get near to them)
2011 CL final - see above
in terms of seasons when Xavi was the glittering Star, please see below;
Individual
- La Liga top assist provider: 2008–09, 2009–10
- World Soccer Player of the Year: 2010
- UEFA European Championship Player of the Tournament: 2008
- UEFA Best Player in Europe Award Second place: 2011
- Ballon d'Or/FIFA Ballon d'Or Third place: 2009, 2010, 2011
- FIFA World Player of the Year Third place: 2009
- UEFA Champions League top assist provider: 2008–09
- UEFA Club Midfielder of the Year: 2008–09
- IFFHS World's Best Playmaker: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
- La Liga Breakthrough Player of the Year: 1999
- La Liga Spanish Player of the Year: 2005
- Trofeo Alfredo Di Stéfano: 2nd place 2010, 3rd place 2011
- La Liga Midfielder of the Year: 2009, 2010, 2011
- FIFA World Cup Dream Team: 2010[92]
- UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 2008, 2012
- FIFA FIFPro World XI: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
- FIFA FIFPro World XI 3rd team: 2014[93]
- UEFA Team of the Year: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
- ESM Team of the Year: 2008–09, 2010–11, 2011–12
- Don Balón Team of the Decade: 2010
- FIFA Club World Cup Silver Ball: 2011
- FIFA Club World Cup Bronze Ball: 2009