Mind boggling. Didnt xavi get 30 odd assists from cm in the 08/09 season ? He ran club and country for years, special player barca and spain havent been able to impose their possesion game as good without him.
Iniesta vs Zidane
- Thread starter TheNewEra
- Start date
Not this nonsense again......
I firmly believe everyone outside of Greater Manchester is aware of this.
Don't get me started. Xavi was voted Spains best ever midfielder and won La Liga midfielder of the year 3 seasons running ahead of.......Iniesta on 2 separate occasions.
Dunno what season you were watching.
He did for Spain in Euro 2008 where he was the player of the tourney. much more impressive than what Scholes has done. United controlled game vs lower level EPL teams.
Only on the Caf.
Dude, I don't know if Paul Scholes killed your dog or had an affair with your missus or what but I'm sick and tired of you attacking him in every thread in which anyone dares to call him world class or even great or dares compare him to other greats of the game.
Anyone who doubts what I'm saying should take a look at the "how good was Paul Scholes" thread where this guy "Stacks" pops in every other day to trash Scholes (and United in general) and has pretty much derailed that thread singlehandedly. I have no problem if someone doesn't rate Scholes - that's their opinion but to go after him time after time is getting real tiresome.
Last edited by a moderator:
He could have had half the amount of assists and that quote would have been just as baffling. I don't even know where to start to refute that post, although I'm still stuck on someone saying Zidane strangled La Liga in one season.
Football is dynamic not static. Tactics change, evolve opposing teams adapt. Possession for possession's sake is not what's all about. In any case, I'd say Barca's possession numbers had more to do with change in coaches post Pep than Xavi's waning influence.
I was being tongue in cheek.
That said, I think Xavi comfortably sits one tier above Zidane, Scholes, Pirlo... he's the greatest midfielder of this century.
Yep. I said it.
Xavi has the consistency at the league, CL and international level, that Zidane does not have.
I didn't even respond to him. He clearly "knows his football" and Xavi was carried by Messi and has 'never' turned up for Spain.
I just don't understand what the feck is going on in this thread, or in the heads of some of the posters in it.
Xavi at his best was better than any other CM I've seen in my lifetime and quite comfortably so.
Whatever about his younger days, there was no sterile risklessnes to his passing when he was at his peak. The notion that he could chalk up 30+ assists in 08/09 whilst playing like that just because he had Messi in his team is silly. He could and regularly did carve teams apart with his passing, even whilst being the key player in their possesion stranglehold. A remarkable player.
Whatever about his younger days, there was no sterile risklessnes to his passing when he was at his peak. The notion that he could chalk up 30+ assists in 08/09 whilst playing like that just because he had Messi in his team is silly. He could and regularly did carve teams apart with his passing, even whilst being the key player in their possesion stranglehold. A remarkable player.
Yes, Xavi “average before 29” Hernandez is a tier above every midfielder to play this century.
‘Let’s compare apple and oranges’
He wasn't average before 29. He just was on another level after then.
I can't think of a game where a midfield with Xavi got dominated in his prime. It was the opposite.
Xavi was incredible long before turning 29.
Xavi played in better teams than Zidane, doesn't make him a better player, let alone a tier above. Xavi was a nobody on the world stage until the ripe age of 28 let's not hype up his consistency eh.
Some of you plebs, never saw Zidane at his pomp. Here's some reminders - potato quality of the video shouldn't detract from his absolute greatness.
Fair few people who quite clearly didn’t watch Xavi between 2001-2006 pre messi.
I see many posters on this forum commenting that Zidane had a higher peak. That might be true (IMO it's debatable), but as far as I am aware, that wasn't what this topic was about.
Zidane was elegant and nice to watch and he could make the difference in a match, but he didn't reach those heights that often.
Even in his Juventus days, he was often overshadowed by Del Piero and Inzaghi.
Out of all the top midfielders I have seen play live, when analyzing their career and achievements, here's how they rank:
1. Michael Laudrupp
2. Xavi
3. Iniesta
4. Zidane
5. Pirlo
6. Scholes
7. Lampard
8. Gerrard
9. Kaka
10. Hagi
Maradona and Zico are obviously superior to all of those I mentioned, but I've never seen them play live.
And if we're only talking about peak level, Gascoigne was bloody awesome.
Zidane was elegant and nice to watch and he could make the difference in a match, but he didn't reach those heights that often.
Even in his Juventus days, he was often overshadowed by Del Piero and Inzaghi.
Out of all the top midfielders I have seen play live, when analyzing their career and achievements, here's how they rank:
1. Michael Laudrupp
2. Xavi
3. Iniesta
4. Zidane
5. Pirlo
6. Scholes
7. Lampard
8. Gerrard
9. Kaka
10. Hagi
Maradona and Zico are obviously superior to all of those I mentioned, but I've never seen them play live.
And if we're only talking about peak level, Gascoigne was bloody awesome.
Zizou was the better player, hands down.
I've been watching football since 1984, so I wouldn't go out of my way not to watch a player.
My opinion was that Xavi was a good player, but nothing extraordinary in the period 2001-2006.
Here's a clip from France - Spain 2006, see if you can spot Xavi affecting the match in any meaningful way. He was 26 in the clip, Zidane was 34.
Xavi will rank as one of the great central midfielders, but to me Zidane and Iniesta were far better and more clutch.
What's prime, 29 and older?
Zidane played in a fantastic Juve team that played in 3 straight CL finals winning 1 of them and were the dominant side in Italy at the time after Milan waned. Then he moved to the Galactico's Real and during that time played for a NT that was Euros and WC winners full of fantastic players.
Xavi's probably the greatest CM ever.
Nedved was better for Juventus, but Zidane was overall the better player.
He really wasn't. It's like saying Giggs or Scholes were better players for United than Cristiano
Foot ball is also about the aesthetic. Zidane was lovely to watch, iniesta not a million miles behind ... xavi not in the same ball park.
Hard to argue that zidane was a legendary midfielder in terms of effectiveness, but who cares
Hard to argue that zidane was a legendary midfielder in terms of effectiveness, but who cares
It's insane, this people have no clue. . There was a poster above who said, and I shit you not "Zidane was often overshadowed by Del Piero and Inzaghi". How Inzaghi, who's got below average technique for a footballer can overshadow Zizou it's a huge mystery to any intelligent human being.
How so?
i don’t judge players solely by their technique, but more by their effectiveness and importance to the team.
I’m not an expert on Juventus, but I was watching plenty of Serie A back in the late 90s and early 00s, just from my memory Nedved was more consistently effective for Juventus than Zidane was, Zidane was better for France than he was for any of his clubs imo.
Is it so far fetched to say that Raul was better for Madrid than Zidane was? Doesn’t mean he was literally a better footballer.
I said that, but you probably misunderstood what I was trying to say. Yes, Inzaghi was an average footballer at best if we analyze his technique, but I wasn't implying the fact that Inzaghi was a better footballer than Zidane, far from it.
My point was that often Zidane went missing from games and Del Piero and Inzaghi were the ones who shined in those matches (by scoring, assisting, creating chances, etc) and won vital points for Juventus.
To be fair I've heard many Juve fans sharing that thought. Nedved was more consistent for Juve, although Zidane had the "higher ceiling".
I also think there’s Zidane before the WC final of 1998, and there’s Zidane after the final.
I don’t think many people rated him higher than Del Piero before that, and before Del Piero’s injury issues started happening, if anything Del Piero was the superstar of Juventus back then, wasn’t he?
I don’t think many people rated him higher than Del Piero before that, and before Del Piero’s injury issues started happening, if anything Del Piero was the superstar of Juventus back then, wasn’t he?
Iniesta : one of the best players of his generation
Zidane : one of the best players of all time.
As simple as that.
Zidane : one of the best players of all time.
As simple as that.
Juve bet big on Del Piero, in fact they let a certain Roberto Baggio go because they had a young up and coming Del Piero. So yeah, Del Piero was amazing in a short period, but I also remember him post injury when he had entire meh seasons. He lost about a yard of pace and it was sad to see him week in week out not being able to do what he could do. I think it was 98 - 2001 when he was clearly playing so-so. Juve stuck by him and to be fair Alessandro turned it around, but he never reached those highs again and I'm talking roughly 2001 - retirement) and Zizou was gone by then. By the way Avvocato Agnelli nicknamed Del Piero "Godot" because they were always waiting for him.
Zidane started very slow, in fact Agnelli was on record questioning Platini who had insisted on Juve buying the player. Once established, he was undoubtedly the best player at Juve - in terms of effectiveness, because he was so important everything had to go through him, so it was easy for other teams to neutralize Juve by doubling up on Zidane. It happens to teams where one player is unquestionably the star player - stop that player and you've stopped 70% of the threat. He was the main tenor, and he needed an orchestra which at Juve he didn't quite have, but at France he did. Juve's other midfielders were functional, hard working players, but hardly world class... we're talking Conte, Di Livio, Edgar Davids (who's a destroyer not a creative), Deschamps, Tachinardi so Zidane had to recycle everything. Both at France and Real he was surrounded by better players.
Tbf, early career Del Piero was a monster. In 97/98 he was almost as good as Ronaldo
Again, no. Nedved wasn't more effective, or better. He's remembered more fondly in part because he stayed there longer and tied himself to the club more strongly, even staying with them in B. Plus recency bias: juventus won nothing in the last 3 seasons with Zidane. What is often lost is that in those 3 seasons, for various reasons, Zidane was 60% of their team, with Davids being the other 40%.
As for the Raul vs Zidane, Zizou's final two seasons were the last of his career. Zidane was better in the 02/03 and 03/04 seasons than Raul ever was for us, individually
He often didn't. He often was their best player in fact. Del Piero was indeed even better than him in the first two seasons. That version of Del Piero looked like he was going to potentially join the best player ever conversation though. Particularly in 97/98 were there was a genuine Del Piero vs Ronaldo debate and it wasn't ludicrous
Yeah. Although Zidane was already amazing for juventus pre WC 98
I don't know if Scholes is your relative but I don't care what you are sick of as your beliefs are delusional. You cannot put a good argument so you are throwing your toys out of the pram. Just because are don't fawn over him and judge him by youtube vids like you lot. I have never TRASHED scholes nor United. I am stating a logical opinion that you lot over rate him massively and I have provided evidence. Stop getting emotional and have a debate like a man. Use logic, reasoning, facts and not "such and such said this, and that ex pro said that" There is a line where I interject and it's when people make false claims like Scholes is better than Zidane or Xavi,Iniesta (or is the best CM of all time) etc when he was clearly below them. That's not trashing the guy. I support him when he makes his comments in the media because often he is correct. I get involved when hyperbole is used as there needs to be some sensible discussion and not exaggerations. Can we all just agree that Scholes was a top, top player, a true red (and Oldham fan) who perhaps did not reach the heights of some of the names in this thread, which I am sure he'll admit to?
Zidane is my alltime favourite player, only player i got goosebumps watching.
Laudrup had a bit of that elegance and swagger about him too, fantastic to watch as well.
Players like Xavi and Iniesta were fantastic as well, unbelievable consistency through games at their best, but they were still somehow quite boring to me.
Laudrup had a bit of that elegance and swagger about him too, fantastic to watch as well.
Players like Xavi and Iniesta were fantastic as well, unbelievable consistency through games at their best, but they were still somehow quite boring to me.
I don’t have any words to say how ridiculous that statement is. Xavi is head and shoulders above any CM of the last 20 years. He was an absolute genius.
Zidane, Scholes, Pirlo, Iniesta etc were great players but Xavi was better.
I did see him from 03 onwards, he was never even mentioned in the same breath as Zidane or Scholes.
He had the best national team squad in the world around him, how many players in that team made up Madrid and Barca? Puyol/Ramos/Pique/Casillas/Alba/Arbeloa/Iniesta/Alonso/Fabregas/Villa, almost the entire starting 11. And that's before you even include guys like David Silva Javi Martinez etc
He was an excellent midfielder but Iniesta had more to his game particularly in the final 3rd. If Scholes had played alongside Messi/Iniesta I wonder how this conversation would go.
I don't understand why people bring up trophies as an argument.
Iniesta is a Barcelona product, he was trained in an elite academy and made his debut in an elite team with a long history and proven track record of winning big titles.
Furthermore the kind of teams such as modern Barca/Real that would get 90-100 points consistently simply didn't exist back in Zidane's era, at least not in La Liga and Serie A that's for sure.
And Iniesta played for most of his career alongside a golden generation.
It's not really surprising Iniesta would have more trophies than someone who started out at Cannes and Bordeaux.
As a 28 year old he was not considered World Class by anyone before that 08/09 season.
At 28 Zidane was the best player in the world.
Iniesta is a Barcelona product, he was trained in an elite academy and made his debut in an elite team with a long history and proven track record of winning big titles.
Furthermore the kind of teams such as modern Barca/Real that would get 90-100 points consistently simply didn't exist back in Zidane's era, at least not in La Liga and Serie A that's for sure.
And Iniesta played for most of his career alongside a golden generation.
It's not really surprising Iniesta would have more trophies than someone who started out at Cannes and Bordeaux.
Xavi was not rated as one of the best players in the world by anyone before Messi and Pep came in.
As a 28 year old he was not considered World Class by anyone before that 08/09 season.
At 28 Zidane was the best player in the world.