Raina is supposed to be a proper batsmen though which he's not unfortunately. You can't be a pinch hitter batting at #5.
I dare say had he not had a strike rate of 50 with more 30 balls faced we wouldn't have needed the six in the first place.
India vs Australia - Limited over series
- Thread starter KM
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Raina is supposed to be a proper batsmen though which he's not unfortunately. You can't be a pinch hitter batting at #5.
I dare say had he not had a strike rate of 50 with more 30 balls faced we wouldn't have needed the six in the first place.
Brilliant innings by Pandey. Well done.
Brilliant innings from Pandey.
Dhoni's recent struggles aside, when dust settles (i.e. he retires), he is 2nd best ODI player of India, all-time, to me. After Sachin. Probably Virat will most likely take him over in future but for now, Dhoni is 2nd, even ahead of Ganguly.
I think that caution had something to do with him being so easily dropped. And Dhoni is always that sort of man isn't he. Keeps the team in it till the last 1-2 overs before letting it go.
The best ever captain India has ever had for sure. The way he revolutionized captaincy was incredible. I don't think even Kohli could get there. But as for player, I still think a couple would sneak in ahead of him. But he's a terrific player. Deserves as much ovation as Sachin when he does call it time.
Ganguly is the one that revolutionised us. Got the belief back in the team. Better captain than Dhoni in my book.
One won us the WC, the other lost it in the final to the best Australian team there was.Dhoni or Ganguly who is the best Indian captain
Kohli's already better. Dhoni's claim to fame is his chasing ability and Kohli's better at that than him. Sachin, Kohli, Dhoni & Ganguly for me. Ganguly the best captain with Dhoni a close 2nd.
Sachin
daylight
Kapil, Ganguly, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Kohli.
in my opinion.
daylight
Kapil, Ganguly, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Kohli.
in my opinion.
I think the belief was always there. Dhoni I think managed to get the most out of his players and always backed them to the full tilt. And I always loved he earlier unorthodox stlye of field placements, bowler choices etc. Some worked, others didn't. I don't think Ganguly took it to that level, but I might be wrong. But who gives a feck, I love them both.
Dhoni ahead of Ganguly for me. That said Ganguly should be credited with bringing aggression in India's play. With that shirt waving at Lords etc and the way he supported youngsters then, it was a different India to the often meek one before. Dhoni's on pitch demeanour was lot calm compared to Ganguly but he took the aggressive play to another level and of course won us important trophies.Dhoni or Ganguly who is the best Indian captain
Not really. He plays higher up in the order sometimes (esp in t20) but he doesnt have the ability to patiently build an innings and therefore he will not be a test regular. He can always score quickly at better than run a ball and is dependable to easily score a quickfire 30-40 batting at 5 or 6. Last year he scored a 100 in the WC and alongwith Dhoni helped us to a successful chase when we were struggling at 4 down. Even the game against Pakistan, he changed the gear and scored 70 from 50 or something. There isnt anyone else better than him at what he does though.
I am looking at Dhoni's captaincy role as well. Including the support to youngsters. Kohli as a batsman is well ahead of course but total package, Dhoni's achievements and contribution is higher. Eventually Kohli will likely move ahead.
Dhoni the best captain for me. Ganguly a very close second. The rest are miles of. Hopefully Kohli will get there one day, but I still don't see him overtaking either of those two even if he is the more talented of those three players.
Scoring at better than a run a ball is easy when all you do is slog it around. A #5 is expected do a lot more than that in my book and do it in all conditions.
Ganguly was an incredible captain. Changed the attitude. Played a pivotal role in developing Sehwag, Yuvraj, Zaheer and Harbhajan.
As far as batsmen go Sachin in the 90's was just another level.
As far as batsmen go Sachin in the 90's was just another level.
1996-2003. Nothing in the history of ODIs compares to that.
Well said and it Dhoni for me,Ganguly got belief,aggression, induced lot of youngster into the team may be loosing last hurdle(world cup) will put him behind Dhoni.
Ganguly had a settled side with a number of players hitting their stride at the same time. For Dhoni's early years it was quite similar and I don't think either had to do too much. Things took care of themselves.
It's around 2010 when things started changing. The impending retirements had to be sorted but none of the seniors were willing to call time so drafting in new blood was stop-start. And then the team were losing often so knee jerk reactions were plenty.
It's around 2010 when things started changing. The impending retirements had to be sorted but none of the seniors were willing to call time so drafting in new blood was stop-start. And then the team were losing often so knee jerk reactions were plenty.
Yeah, both have been great for us. Matter of personal preference I suppose. I loved Ganguly's aggression and will always credit him for bringing the belief back into the team.I think the belief was always there. Dhoni I think managed to get the most out of his players and always backed them to the full tilt. And I always loved he earlier unorthodox stlye of field placements, bowler choices etc. Some worked, others didn't. I don't think Ganguly took it to that level, but I might be wrong. But who gives a feck, I love them both.
It hadn't been long since the match fixing scandal had hit Indian cricket with the involved veterans getting banned. The side under Ganguly had to do with loads of fresh blood - Yuvraj, Sehwag, Zaheer, Harbhajhan and Kaif - a lot of which developed under him. It was only under him we started playing as a team and not like the one-man show that had gone on in the 90s.
Settled is really not a word I'd use to describe his tenure. Nor was anything settled when Dhoni came in, with the disappointment of 2007 WC still fresh in everyone's minds.
Michael Bevan is the best example of no.5/6,never seen batsmen like him in that position, may be Hussey close second.
I reckon Dhoni has been a better captain at shorter form of the game, and Ganguly at test matches. That's how it seems. I may be completely off the mark.
As an ODI cricketer Dhoni will always be above Ganguly for me,Dhoni would have broken a lot more records if he hadn't taken responsibility as a captain to finish matches. For years I saw India having to either play chump wicketkeepers or have Dravid keep just to get some balance so it's been fantastic to not have to worry about that for a decade.
Pretty much spot on
He scored 2 50s and a 100 in the WC down under last year. He can always find boundaries and take singles and keep scoreboard ticking. He doesnt waste balls like a lot of players do. He can slog but he also can play a responsible innings. Remember the innings agains Pakistan in 2011 WC semis where he got India to 260 having decent partnerships with tailenders. He may not be talented like Kohli or Sharma but he is an important player. He can even bowl decently and economically.
Also the one thing that I don't like when comparing captains is talking about the players they 'brought' through because that for me is completely subjective and really hard to 100% judge.
He's rarely someone who can turn a match by himself though. His WC form was very good, admittedly.
He's not though. 5 50's and 1 100 in NZ, Aus, Sa and Eng in 50 games is appalling. Out of his 5 100's 3 were against Hong Kong,Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. No doubt he's played a couple of decent knocks but that's not hard when you've played 200 odd games. Pandey's innings was better than anything Raina has ever played
This.
And on the Ganguly vs Dhoni debate, I'd always go for Ganguly. He, for me, changed more. Gave our team the fire/heart/winning mentality we needed to gain at the time (obviously along with great team mates), and that's where the India that started taking teams head on and genuine self-belief began, at least in my time of watching cricket. Maybe it had also to do with Azharuddin before him being such a docile individual, but either way he was the leader Indian cricket needed to go up a few notches. Plus, he supposedly put a lot faith in young players at the time, who all went on to do great things for the country, and it elevated us to being a very different one day side. Also, I hear people constantly going on about how Dhoni isn't the best captain tactically, and can let games drift him by.
I'm looking forward to the hit and giggle series starting Tuesday. That's when Australia Day falls and I believe a national day for India too.
Well he may not turn it in a Dhoni-esque way but many of the best innings by Virat, Dhoni and all have come with Raina at the other end. Him ticking the scoreboard with singles and a boundary here and there can enable them to play their natural game. Like that game in Australia where India needed 320 from 40 overs against SL. He came with them needing 120 from 12 or so overs iirc. And he supported Virat well to help India win the match in about 9 overs
Lol. If you read the posts I made here itself you will find more important innings than Pandey did. Under bigger situations. The QF vs Australia in WC 2011, SF vs Pakistan in 2011 were all very crucial in our wins. He may not have got a 100 or 50 in those games but those were some of the most important innings than a 100 in a 5th odi of a series that we lost 4-1. There are many matches where he was involved in match winning partnerships. You can replace Pandey. Players like Rahanefor instance can have these kind of an innings. But there are very few players who can replace Raina. With him in the side, there would have been a bigger chance to win the 4th ODI. He can score at ease in the death overs which many of our batsmen cannot. This series was a prime example of that
You must be on a wum. This is Suresh Raina we're talking about ffs.
And no it would have no different with him in the side because as has already been established the guy is shite away from home.
Are you serious? This series is proof that you need someone like Raina to come at 4 or 5 down. And that currently we have no one who can do that. We tried Pandey at 6 with no use. Pandey at 4 and he played well. Same with Rahane. Jadeja cant cut it being a batting all rounder. So no, we dont have someone like Raina. He is the closest we have to the Michael Bevan. Having no 50s and 100s doesnt qualify as shit. Sometimes a matchwinning 30 or 40 can be much important than a futile 150.
Michael Bevan? wtf?
And no Raina wouldn't have helped because he's useless away from home as has been proven time and time again. How many more failures will it take for people to realise this? Pandey has played 1 game at 6. One. Where he came in the final 4 overs or so which proves absolutely nothing. He's also played one game at 5 where scored 70 and one game at 4 where he's scored a 100. Also, Pandey is a pretty good hitter himself.
Let's see if he's any good but I'm glad we're moving away from tried and tested failures.
What failures? Because he doesnt score 50s? That game we didnt need to. All we needed was someone to stay with Jadeja and score quick runs. Even a 25 or 30 would have been suficient. Thats what we needed at that point and he has shown time and again that he can do this well. He can easily add an extra 30 or 40 runs playing in the #6. Again, just because you dont score 50s and 100s doesnt mean you are shite.
Incredible innings from Pandey!