India v Australia, Tests and ODI's

Donaldo

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So it kicks off tomorrow.

Not expecting much from India although they can spring a surprise.

I predict a 1-0 to the Aussies.First test to be a dull draw...Hayden make a double ton.India on the field for three days...(hope not!) ;)
 
ok..aussies 1-0 up..we played some of the worst stuff iv seen for ages..no commitment..mindless cricket..things arent that bad. :(
The papers are going really hard on the players...its a good thing.. awful stuff from our batsman...some of them get paid 50 lakh per year, they ought to put in more.. yuvraj and sehwag should be dropped.. they continiously make the same mistakes time and time again... its the biggest problem in indian cricket.. selectors need to gather the balls to drop the big name players.
 
DONADO said:
Yeah..I mean..its not like I'm Indian by birth is it?
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and? Most Indians, change their support during a match. They love teams that win.
 
Sachin is doubtful for the whole fecking series, i don see us beating aussies without him, even with him in the team it will be a uphill task.
looking gloomy:(
 
Spoony said:
and? Most Indians, change their support during a match. They love teams that win.
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i hope your not being serious..cos that sounds mightey idiotic... you havent a clue what cricket means to us indians... its prob bigger than football is in england.. and that change in support thing is only in football... mainly becos most of those people dont really support your english clubs.. they just take an interest in something 'cool' but its just an interest. Dont mistake that with the support for the cricket team which runs in the blood of most indians.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
its prob bigger than football is in england..
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clueless :wenger: :wenger: :wenger: as ever? How many times have you paid to watch a First Division or a Ranji Trophy match? Are you atleast aware of the ticket prices?

and that change in support thing is only in football...
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Still Iam yet to come across a football fan who changes his support season after season .

mainly becos most of those people dont really support your english clubs.. they just take an interest in something 'cool' but its just an interest.
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who said so? You are totally clueless.Majority of the old Indian football fans support their local clubs and Brazilian national team. Even if they support a foreigh club they dont look beyond United and Pool. In the Union territories you can find supporters of French and Portuguese national teams. Arsenal started to attract fans only in the late 90's -before that none were bothered about them. Now Real Madrid are catching up.


How old are you today. If my guess is right you must either 16 or 17 years old.
 
So whats going on ? whos winning the series or whatever it is ?
 
vijay said:
clueless :wenger: :wenger: :wenger: as ever? How many times have you paid to watch a First Division or a Ranji Trophy match? Are you atleast aware of the ticket prices?




Still Iam yet to come across a football fan who changes his support season after season .



who said so? You are totally clueless.Majority of the old Indian football fans support their local clubs and Brazilian national team. Even if they support a foreigh club they dont look beyond United and Pool. In the Union territories you can find supporters of French and Portuguese national teams. Arsenal started to attract fans only in the late 90's -before that none were bothered about them. Now Real Madrid are catching up.


How old are you today. If my guess is right you must either 16 or 17 years old.
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god youv got serious issues... theres a reason why the term glory hunters came up..its becos of part time so called supporters from mainly asia... there are lots of people here in india i know who begin to take interest in a team becos its what they think is happenning... as soon as that team begins to fail they stop watching the team.. its really becos these people never really supported the club.. Its just one of their many interests.. its pretty common here, sadly.
Im 18, but im not sure what you have against me...this is a fact..there are supporters like that here.
About cricket...i dont goto the stadiums and watch cricket games too often..just once infact... wev had financial problems of late and plus the delhi stadium is being rebuilt. No there isnt much interest in the ranji trophy in indians..why should there be when the national team plays week in week out.. unlike in england where the national team plays rarely(majour competitions are of imp. only) and people support their clubs and watch their games weekly. So obviously the division 1,2 clubs would also have good support.
Anyways forget the debate...i want to know what you have against me? its odd..its not like i offended you
 
amolbhatia100 said:
god youv got serious issues... theres a reason why the term glory hunters came up..its becos of part time so called supporters from mainly asia... there are lots of people here in india i know who begin to take interest in a team becos its what they think is happenning... as soon as that team begins to fail they stop watching the team.. its really becos these people never really supported the club.. Its just one of their many interests.. its pretty common here, sadly.
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:lol: I've come across lots of fans across Asia who started supporting pool in the 80's and still supporting them. Glory Hunter is a term used created by some inward looking Englishmen who are unable to accept their team's failures and its not directed at Asian fans. These kinds of arguments dosent hold crediblity any more. I reckon you are supporting United for the past three or four seasons. Are you a glory hunter?

Im 18, but im not sure what you have against me...this is a fact..there are supporters like that here.
About cricket...i dont goto the stadiums and watch cricket games too often..just once infact... wev had financial problems of late and plus the delhi stadium is being rebuilt. No there isnt much interest in the ranji trophy in indians.. So obviously the division 1,2 clubs would also have good support.
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Your point was cricket is bigger in India than soccer in England. Its completely daft. First class cricket in India attracts poor crowds/less publicity compared to the first class cricket played in the English counties.


why should there be when the national team plays week in week out.. unlike in england where the national team plays rarely(majour competitions are of imp. only) and people support their clubs and watch their games weekly.

Cricket or football? :confused:
 
vijay said:
:lol: I've come across lots of fans across Asia who started supporting pool in the 80's and still supporting them. Glory Hunter is a term used created by some inward looking Englishmen who are unable to accept their team's failures and its not directed at Asian fans. These kinds of arguments dosent hold crediblity any more. I reckon you are supporting United for the past three or four seasons. Are you a glory hunter?:
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yes there are lots of loyal supporters as well..i didnt say there wernt.. i have been supporting united united for 3 years now...and that doesnt mean im a glory hunter.. but there are tons of people who change their focus of interest lets say.. becos i dont believe they really supported the club in the first place..i dont believe its really possible for one to support a club one day and then support another the next... they are just merely taking interest. But IMO its not really a critisism of anyone.. becos im sure if it was the other way round it would be the same.. if we had the most popular league of the most famous sport in the world and the english were crap at it...there would be lots of english fake support coming in... its just natural really.





vijay said:
Your point was cricket is bigger in India than soccer in England. Its completely daft. First class cricket in India attracts poor crowds/less publicity compared to the first class cricket played in the English counties.


why should there be when the national team plays week in week out.. unlike in england where the national team plays rarely(majour competitions are of imp. only) and people support their clubs and watch their games weekly.

Cricket or football? :confused:
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Do you agree that cricket is more popular in india than it is in england?? thats an easy one. Yet, as you say the english county generates more interest and crowds than our domestic cricket. So scrap that theory.

Cricket in india is huge as you prob know... but its completely concentrated on the national team...the fall from international cricket to domestic cricket in india is just too big.. our domestic cricket is really poor..the infrastructure,standard of play,publicity etc. Therefore, its given very little attention...plus maybe its also the indian mindset.. domestic rivalry in sport means feckall to most indians.. for the common indian or the even the people living on the streets cricket means everything.. But international cricket..

On the last part.. basically i was replying to the fact that division 1 and 2 matches easily attract greater crowds than indian ranji trophy games.. most people dont bother with their state teams...the national team only as iv mentioned is of importance.. whereas obviously in football your national team is in the spotlight really during major tournaments which come around once in awhile.. therefore club support is a big thing. And everyone supports his/her own club wheather theyr in Div 1 or Div 2 or the premiership..so thats a completely different matter.
 
India slightly in front.

Australia lead by 150, will be hard to chase anything over 200 on this wicket.

especially with the greatest bowler of all time bowling all day at ya.
 
mjdj said:
India slightly in front.

Australia lead by 150, will be hard to chase anything over 200 on this wicket.

especially with the greatest bowler of all time bowling all day at ya.
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Bit rich that, calling Warney the greatest EVER.There may be doubts in certain minds about that.I mean..look at his dismal showing in India all this time!nd supposedly on spin friendly pitches.He still has to prove himself, unfortunate though it may sound after 537 wickets...
India could get to 229 I feel. But the important batsman here would have to be not Dravid or that crappy, stuck-on-the-crease-i-am VVS, but SC Ganguly.
 
DONADO said:
Bit rich that, calling Warney the greatest EVER.There may be doubts in certain minds about that.I mean..look at his dismal showing in India all this time!nd supposedly on spin friendly pitches.He still has to prove himself, unfortunate though it may sound after 537 wickets...
India could get to 229 I feel. But the important batsman here would have to be not Dravid or that crappy, stuck-on-the-crease-i-am VVS, but SC Ganguly.
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I dont think many people would deny he is the greatest spin bowler of all time.
 
Warne should nt be considered the greatest spinner of all time/
Why?
Because he couldnt prove him self against the beat players of spin in the world of cricket, he still has 5 innings to do so.
 
crappycraperson said:
Warne should nt be considered the greatest spinner of all time/
Why?
Because he couldnt prove him self against the beat players of spin in the world of cricket, he still has 5 innings to do so.
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Eh?
 
Red Sea said:
Eh?
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He has yet done well against INDIA , as Indians are reknown to be the best players of spin , surely the best spinner of all time must do well against them?
 
crappycraperson said:
He has yet done well against INDIA , as Indians are reknown to be the best players of spin , surely the best spinner of all time must do well against them?
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Yes India are well known for their ability to play spin, but they aren't the best players in the world or the best he has ever bowled at, nor would I guess are they the best indian team he has played against.

If he was to never take another wicket his record is second to none in most peoples books. And I don't know his record against India in India but his record around the world is fantastic. He has mastered all types of wickets in all types of conditions against the best bowlers in the world.
 
Red Sea said:
Yes India are well known for their ability to play spin, but they aren't the best players in the world or the best he has ever bowled at, nor would I guess are they the best indian team he has played against.

If he was to never take another wicket his record is second to none in most peoples books. And I don't know his record against India in India but his record around the world is fantastic. He has mastered all types of wickets in all types of conditions against the best bowlers in the world.
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Admittedly warne has done really well against the likes of NZ, England, SA, WI etc.
But these countries' players don really play spin that well, and any medicore spinner like mcgill could take a bagful against these lot, and i think mcgill's record will suggest he did. So i don think performing great against these teams makes warne the best.

His true test was/is against Indian players who ARE the best players of SPIN in the cricket world. In the past he has failed misreably to gather any sort of advantage over INDIA
Surely you have to overhaul the best opposition in order to be considered the best.
 
I agree the opposition counts what about Sri lanka, Pakistan are you saying his record is poor against them? And when you talk about opposition, a career that has spanned such a long period where he has taken on and beaten the best batsmen in the world is surely a better marker than a few tests against India. Have you got Warne's bowling record to hand against India?

And who is a better spin bowler?
 
I have just read that he has only played 6 tests before in India, and he was also injured. It is hardly fair to judge a player off 6 matches and ignore a career.
 
SK Warne's bowling statistics against INDIA
Matches (Innings) Balls Maidens Runs Conceded Wickets
13 (23) 3700 129 1926 39

Average Strike Rate Wickets per Match Runs per Over
49.38 94.87 3.00 3.12




Best Figures (innings) Best Figures(match) 5w Innings 10w Matches
6-125 6-113 1 0



overall
SK Warne's bowling statistics
Matches (Innings) Balls Maidens Runs Conceded Wickets
114 (212) 32104 1495 13743 537

Average Strike Rate Wickets per Match Runs per Over
25.59 59.78 4.71 2.57

Best Figures(innings) Best Figures(match) 5w Innings 10w Matches
8-71 12-128 28 8
 
So he has played 13 matched against INDIA home and away
average rises from 25.59 to 49.38
And SR 60 to 95 approx.

So you will agree he has failed against INDIAN players
As I said he has to atleast make some sort of impact against his toughest opponents in order to be termed as THE BEST.
 
Taken from http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3070597a10133,00.html

Warne turned in his best performance against the world's best players of spin, taking 6-125 from 42.5 overs, during which he became Test cricket's leading wicket taker, with 537 scalps to Muttiah Muralitharan's 532. While his Chennai haul was accumulated over more than a day, statistically his two Tests this time have been far better than his previous efforts in India.

In his previous six Tests here, played while he carried injuries to his spinning finger and bowling shoulder, Warne had scraped up just 20 wickets at a profligate 52 runs each, and a bleak strike rate of a wicket every 95 balls. Elsewhere, the leg-spinner had averaged just 24, with a strike rate of 59, through 471 wickets in 101 Tests.

On this tour, he is Australia's leading wicket taker with 10 of India's 30 wickets to have fallen, at 31 runs apiece and a rate of one every 61 balls.
 
And no I wouldn't say he has failed against India, his record at home in Australia is perfectly acceptable for a spinner. In fact it is very good. I do not know the type of pitches he played on.

And all players have injury problems and do not perform at their best, if Tendulkar hasn't averaged more than 50 in one series, does that make him an average player? No of course not.

Lastly Australia are the best team in the world but have not beaten India since 1969 some countries are difficult for other nationalities to adapt to.
 
crappycraperson said:
So he has played 13 matched against INDIA home and away
average rises from 25.59 to 49.38
And SR 60 to 95 approx.

So you will agree he has failed against INDIAN players
As I said he has to atleast make some sort of impact against his toughest opponents in order to be termed as THE BEST.
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Are you saying that the Indian batsmen are the best 6 batsmen against spin in the world?
 
Red Sea said:
Are you saying that the Indian batsmen are the best 6 batsmen against spin in the world?
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They play spin the best. England, WI, NZ and SA are very poor against spin. Warney's been gifted plenty of wickets by those countries. Sri Lanka and Pakistan aren't bad, but no where near as comfortable facing spin as the Indians. That said. Indians and Sri Lankans historically aren't the greatest players of pace.....infact they've generally always been found wanting. As for nations that are poor against seamers on seaming wickets... I'd say England and Oz have the most equipt players to play on seaming pitches..... Sri Lanka, Pakistan and India the worst(over the past few decades.)
 
giggzy said:
They play spin the best. England, WI, NZ and SA are very poor against spin. Warney's been gifted plenty of wickets by those countries. Sri Lanka and Pakistan aren't bad, but no where near as comfortable facing spin as the Indians. That said. Indians and Sri Lankans historically aren't the greatest players of pace.....infact they've generally always been found wanting. As for nations that are poor against seamers on seaming wickets... I'd say England and Oz have the most equipt players to play on seaming pitches..... Sri Lanka, Pakistan and India the worst(over the past few decades.)
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So what are you trying to say that Warne isn't the best spin bowler in the world?

All 6 batesmen are not better than the best players in the world against spin and Warne's record against India in Australia is good!
 
giggzy said:
I'd say England and Oz have the most equipt players to play on seaming pitches..... Sri Lanka, Pakistan and India the worst(over the past few decades.)
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Tit.who are those well equipped batsmen from England capable of handling pace? Try to name atleast 10 players in the last 20 years. Don't include Hick and Ramaprakash
 
Red Sea said:
All 6 batesmen are not better than the best players in the world against spin and Warne's record against India in Australia is good!
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Another thing you've got to take in account - Indian pitches suit, spin bowling..... and he's yet to expoit them. I find that strange.

He's a great spinner.... sorry, I mean WAS a great spinner. Best spinner ever, though? Perhaps.
 
vijay said:
Tit.who are those well equipped batsmen from England capable of handling pace? Try to name atleast 10 players in the last 20 years. Don't include Hick and Ramaprakash
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Seaming pitches, you pratt.

Read up.
 
giggzy said:
Another thing you've got to take in account - Indian pitches suit, spin bowling..... and he's yet to expoit them. I find that strange.

He's a great spinner.... sorry, I mean WAS a great spinner. Best spinner ever, though? Perhaps.
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Then I don't understand your point, have you actually bothered to read the debate? I have never denied Indian batsmen are adept at dealing with spin bowling!
 
vijay said:
So you mean, playing spinners in seaming pitches?
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'As for nations that are poor against seamers on seaming wickets'

What part of that don't you understand?

Medium pacers who rely on the wicket for movement. Headingly, is a famous seaming wicket.
 
Red Sea said:
Then I don't understand your point, have you actually bothered to read the debate? I have never denied Indian batsmen are adept at dealing with spin bowling!
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What debate?

I'm merely pointing out, that he can't hack it in India, even though he's playing on wickets that suit his bowling.
 
giggzy said:
'As for nations that are poor against seamers on seaming wickets'

What part of that don't you understand?

Medium pacers who rely on the wicket for movement. Headingly, is a famous seaming wicket.
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Eh?.. Ok Leeds is a seaming wicket. How many times has England beaten Australia from 1989 to till date.

(Austarlia never produced tearaway fast bowler after Lillie and Thommo. In the 80's it was McDermott and Ried and now its McGrath. Gillespie and Lee are late additions.)
 
What debate? Perhaps if you read the posts before then you may have added something worthwhile.
 
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