India politics thread

:confused:
I think something corrupt happened and will be happy if it can be proven.

Doesn't matter. Unless the courts intervene and impeach the ruling party, it wouldn't matter at all.

All the negative stuff about Modi has been completely ignored by our populist media and the sheep like public. The bhakt propoganda machine is working wonderfully well.

It was proven that Modi lied on his election applications, completely ignored his wife for decades without divorcing her, made stupid comments about global warming, and probably lied about his educational qualification, yet he is the greatest Indian ever according to millions of Indians.
 
Unfortunately the original source is something called Catch News, with 2 reporters I've not heard of. It's good that they have the screenshots, but it's hard to trust their quotes. Has anyone else carried this story?
It would be :drool: if a selective leak could be proven though.

Have you seen the video of Sanjeev Chaurasia, a BJP MLA from Bihar, in which he claims that BJP bought lands in Bihar and in other states just before Modi's "surgical strike"? He also said that they are merely the signatory authorities and the money came from the party. Isn't that a solid proof for us to understand what really happened? Also another BJP MLA from Rajastan was claiming that Ambani, Adani and the leaders were already informed about the currency ban and so they took necessary measures before the announcement.

This has all the ingredients of the biggest scam ever happened not just in India, but all over the world. Indians are taken for a ride here...
 
My colleagues (2 white folks have just returned from India) have been laughing and perplexed about this entire episode. They told me that there are long queues, vendors refuse to give change and they could only exchange half of the amount they wanted (they were carrying some bank notes from their previous visits). So I refuse to believe anyone who says that the situation on the ground is much better and that the queues are lessening and what not.

Groundbreaking evidence. If there is anyone who can actually shed light on the whole issue, it has to be two white guys who were visiting the country. Please tell us more.
 
Groundbreaking evidence. If there is anyone who can actually shed light on the whole issue, it has to be two white guys who were visiting the country. Please tell us more.
:lol:

When there are desperate attempts to show legitimate land buys as "biggest scam ever" you have to stop expecting sense from Modi haters.
 
Groundbreaking evidence. If there is anyone who can actually shed light on the whole issue, it has to be two white guys who were visiting the country. Please tell us more.
:lol:

I'm anyway going to look at it from my perspective. I have read reports from both sides saying the transition have been smooth and also claiming the contrary. But to have folks from outside the country laugh about the entire episode (and govt and the country) is embarrassing to say the least. And it's just not them, there are other citizens as well who have faced troubles during this entire exercise. But to sugarcoat the entire episode is well, borderline blindness to say the least.
 
:lol:

When there are desperate attempts to show legitimate land buys as "biggest scam ever" you have to stop expecting sense from Modi haters.
When there are desperate attempts to show this exercise as if it's the first time ever and would remove all corruption/black money, you have to stop expecting sense from Modi suckers.
 
When there are desperate attempts to show this exercise as if it's the first time ever and would remove all corruption/black money, you have to stop expecting sense from Modi suckers.
OK, carry on.
 
OK, carry on.

Yes, let it be. Don't bother with such lot. You have people wanting to prove that the government in corrupt and is actually hoping that the government is corrupt and you have others sitting in around the globe and cribbing about the ground situation in India.

Almost any individual will accept that the process had flaws in terms of causing extra trouble to the common man and things certainly could have been handled better, no doubt about it. But there's no point in discussing this with people who actively want this to fail due to their political leanings and hatred.
 
@coolredwine the tragedy here is that none of this affects your life in any big way. But that won't stop you from moaning about it over and over again. Whereas, the people whose daily lives are being affected, are more patient and understanding of the whole issue than you'll ever be.
 
@coolredwine the tragedy here is that none of this affects your life in any big way. But that won't stop you from moaning about it over and over again. Whereas, the people whose daily lives are being affected, are more patient and understanding of the whole issue than you'll ever be.

You didn't pull that out of your arse hopefully. I mean you have real accounts of people who are genuinely distressed but are all sacrificing for the 'greater good'.
 
What's embarrassing about some foreigner laughing about the country being disrupted/affected by much a huge decision? Personally, I was more embarrassed when our politicians did feck all and actually engaged in exploiting the system to generate more black money.

Seriously, @Akash said it very well in the last page. The reaction of some sections have been really eye opening. Everyone has made a huge hue and cry for years about black money, corruption, counterfeiting etc but at the first sign of change which always becomes with an adaption period which will be tough, people are clamoring for the status quo to be set again. We don't want change, meh, we just want our lives not to be a adversely affected in any way for a short time even for long term good. Statements like "but this will not eradicate black money" are just mind boggling. No shit.
 
It would be droolworthy if our politicians could be proven corrupt? Wut?

The implementation looks to have been a downright disaster starting from the the PM and RBI down the banks themselves but some of the posts on here can only be described as plain sad. Makes me question how receptive our country is to change and whether some of us are simply more interested in jumping down the throats of every politician who tries to do something. Or of course you could simply be one of those weirdos who are staunch followers of a political party like it's a fecking sports team.
Quoting and bolding the parts that resonate with me.
 
Is this like, emotional blackmail or something?

Piss off :lol: Emotional blackmail on a football forum. Telling someone to not bother having a discussion with someone who already has his agendas set is emotional blackmail. Have a word.
 
You didn't pull that out of your arse hopefully. I mean you have real accounts of people who are genuinely distressed but are all sacrificing for the 'greater good'.

Which of course would not measure up to redwine's colleagues who faced so much trouble.

Edit: 2 American Colleagues to be precise.
 
What's embarrassing about some foreigner laughing about the country being disrupted/affected by much a huge decision? Personally, I was more embarrassed when our politicians did feck all and actually engaged in exploiting the system to generate more black money.

Seriously, @Akash said it very well in the last page. The reaction of some sections have been really eye opening. Everyone has made a huge hue and cry for years about black money, corruption, counterfeiting etc but at the first sign of change which always becomes with an adaption period which will be tough, people are clamoring for the status quo to be set again. We don't want change, meh, we just want our lives not to be a adversely affected in any way for a short time even for long term good. Statements like "but this will not eradicate black money" are just mind boggling. No shit.

Easy to get carried away by the cynical nature of the newscycle. As I've mentioned in my previous post, majority of us are more understanding and patient than how the media wants to portray us.
 
:lol:

When there are desperate attempts to show legitimate land buys as "biggest scam ever" you have to stop expecting sense from Modi haters.

I meant the whole process, not just the land deals. Day by day new revelations are coming out. One thing is sure now, this was not done at the best interest of the nation. And if the whole process was a scam, then it's definitely the biggest scam in the world cheating 125 crore citizen.

Hmmm, "legitimate land buys"... i see where that coming from.
 
Yes, let it be. Don't bother with such lot. You have people wanting to prove that the government in corrupt and is actually hoping that the government is corrupt and you have others sitting in around the globe and cribbing about the ground situation in India.

Almost any individual will accept that the process had flaws in terms of causing extra trouble to the common man and things certainly could have been handled better, no doubt about it. But there's no point in discussing this with people who actively want this to fail due to their political leanings and hatred.

Seriously, @Akash said it very well in the last page. The reaction of some sections have been really eye opening. Everyone has made a huge hue and cry for years about black money, corruption, counterfeiting etc but at the first sign of change which always becomes with an adaption period which will be tough, people are clamoring for the status quo to be set again. We don't want change, meh, we just want our lives not to be a adversely affected in any way for a short time even for long term good. Statements like "but this will not eradicate black money" are just mind boggling. No shit.

I was so excited to hear this news on Nov 8th. But then i heard about the possible intentions behind the move and started to watch the events closely. Surely the implementation was horrendous, no doubt about it. But was it a politically motivated move as well? I have three concerns regarding this move.

1) What was the real reason behind this move? Was it a genuine attempt to curb black money and fake currency? Or was this a move with a lot of political agendas?
2) Government is pressuring the citizens to use plastic currency. How practical it is to implement such a huge change within a very short time in a country like India where at least 30% of citizens are illiterate? Most of the people in remote areas doesn't even have a bank account, forget about debit and credit cards. So, if the government is pushing for such a huge change, what will happen to those people who are illiterate without any knowledge on banking procedures and online transactions?
3) The concept of plastic currency itself is to be debated. I believe that one of the main reasons why India was able survive the global recession is that in India most of the transactions are made in cash payments. The markets were mostly dependent on physical cash rather than cards and online payments. This is a unique feature of Indian economy. I agree that the use of physical cash has some disadvantages. But the concept of plastic currency doesn't seems to fit the fundamentals of Indian economy. A move to plastic currency will unsettle Indian economy and will make it extremely dependent and vulnerable to external factors. I think a balance of physical and electronic payment system is necessary to keep Indian economy growing and at the same time to keep it safe from external factors.

It would be very helpful to understand the intentions of the Indian government behind this move if someone could answer me the following questions which i found on social media (please answer it with some valid proofs, not just for the sake of answering). I think these questions are serious enough to demand a detailed reply from the authorities. (The questions were addressed to the PM of India, i am not going to edit all of it)

1) Is it really worth inconveniencing 125 crore people if the total black money in currency is less than 6%? Imagine, just 6%!!!! Means, even if the total black money in currency is destroyed/seized, 94% of black money is still out there. And we all know that even half of that 6% currency can't be destroyed by this action. Black money holders are easily converting their currencies through many ways. So, is it really worth the struggles of 125 crore people? Is it really worth 70+ precious life's of your citizen? Is it really worth the 70% reduction in the daily business? Is it really worth the considerable slowing down of the economy? Is it really worth the weakening of Indian Rupee? Is it really worth the loss of manpower and productivity caused by this decision?

2) Could you have raided and collected more taxes by going after some of the super rich, who we all know are unethical in their business practices?

3) When you know that 80% of the wealth of this country is with less than 15% people, does your actions are really justified?

4) How about those Swiss accounts you so heroically were mentioning in your election campaigns? Do you have guts to even touch on that? Not just the names, even the Swiss bank account numbers are also available in the public domain? That was your election promise to the nation, you promised that the black money holders will suffer. But now all we see is the suffering of common man. Black money holders are still in the safe zone.

5) Why did you not start with abolishing black money funding to political parties? Do you have the guts to disclose who (which businessmen) gave how much money to your campaign? Who are you trying to protect by going after the common man?

6) Why was Vijay Mallya allowed to fly out our country when the entire defense and immigration departments in your hands? You can track poor NGO workers and stop them from leaving the country but you cannot catch a fraudster who has cheated thousands of crores?

7) What reply do you have on the loan wavering of corporate's including Vijay Malya's when the common man is running madly to legalise their hard earned money?

8) When you clearly knew that around 40% of Indian's still don't have a bank account and 30% of them are illiterates who either don't know or don't have facilities to legalise their hard earned money, was this the right action? It is also possible that millions of citizens in the very remote areas doesn't even know about these measures taken by you, meaning, their life savings will become just piece of papers by the end of coming month.

9) Your own party MLA from Rajasthan was claiming on video that this news was already leaked to the likes of Ambani, Adani and other leaders and they took required measures before your announcement. (I have personally verified the contents of the said video)

10) There were multiple reports that in Gujrat, your own party president, Mr. Amit Shah's team was actively involved in exchanging of old currencies to newer once on 67-33% basis through the cooperative banks ruled by your own party. Means if you give them 1 crore rupees (100 lakh) worth old notes, they will give you 67 lakh worth new notes. Have you looked into these allegations? (Allegation was made by Mr. Yatin Ojha, right had of Modi while he was the Gujrat CM. He claimed that he got video proof and challenged Modi to prove him wrong)

11) It was widely reported that Ambani invested around 150,000 lakh crores on Jio Sim. All the calls and data transfer using this sim are totally free till December 31. December 31st is also the final day to exchange the old notes. Is there any truth in the claims that Ambani is legalizing his black money through this?

12) Why did you appoint Mr. Urjit Patel as the new RBI Governor when it was obvious that the former Governor Mr. Raghuram Rajan was doing a fine job? Why did you not extend the term of Mr. Raghuram Rajan? Is it because Mr.Urjit Patel was the finance manager of Mr. Ambani? Don't you think that there will be a conflict of interest? Even if you had to change Mr. Raghuram Rajan, you had many other better option with much better CV's than that of Mr. Urjit Patel's. So, was this all pre-planned?

13) You were also saying that the currency printing process started 6 months before. If that's true, then why every new currency has the signature of the new RBI Governor? If the currency started to print before 6 months, then the signature on the currency must be of the the then RBI Governor Mr. Raghuram Rajan. Are you lying to the nation? (True)

14) A BJP MLA from Bihar said that days before Prime Minister's announcement, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) bought land worth crores of rupees. His won words, “Land was being bought everywhere… In other places too, along with Bihar… We are merely the signatory authority; the money came from the party… the plots were bought for building party offices and other purposes. They were bought up to the first week of November.” The news agency which broke this news even have the names of the new owners and the amount of money spend for these lands. What reply do you have regarding this? (I have personally verified the contents of the said video)

15) How did your party leader and their relatives got bundles of 2000 note even 2 days before your announcement?

16) How come an ex-minister of your party was able to conduct a 500 crore wedding just 2 days after your announcement? From where he got that kind of new currency? Or was he pre-paid all the payments, meaning he knew about this currency ban in advance? (Was all over the media, this was at a time when people can only withdraw a maximum of 20k from their accounts)

17) Did you know that the wife of a businessman in Gujrat purchased 20 crore valued gold just few hours before your announcement on 8th of this month? (
Allegation was made by Mr. Yatin Ojha, right had of Modi while he was the Gujrat CM. He claimed that he got an eyewitness to the above incident and challenged Modi to prove him wrong)

18) Why was your party bank accounts in UP and Bengal were credited with lakhs and crores of rupees worth 500 and 1000 notes just before your announcement? (The screen shot of the account statement of Bengal BJP bank account is available in the social media)

19) When all the other political parties are mostly in silent mode coz of the lack of money, you and your party is able to conduct huge election rallies and conferences in many states without any trouble? How is it possible? Was this the real intention behind the demonetisation move?

Answer these questions with honesty, I will happily stand in line for 24 hours to get my cash. When you run a political party and run a very expensive extravagant campaign with black money of rich and powerful, you cannot justify your intentions or actions. You are just harassing people. Clean up with filth in your house (i.e., corrupt political parties) before you launch a missile on the common man of this country.
 
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Kudos for writing such a long post, but unfortunately you aren't going to get a reply. This is too much to digest for some.
 
Allow me to answer some of your queries if not all and share my opinion as well. Also there's no argument to have regarding the fact that the implementation could have been better. Having said that, an adaptation period was always on the cards as well.

I was so excited to hear this news on Nov 8th. But then i heard about the possible intentions behind the move and started to watch the events closely. Surely the implementation was horrendous, no doubt about it. But was it a politically motivated move as well? I have three concerns regarding this move.

1) What was the real reason behind this move? Was it a genuine attempt to curb black money and fake currency? Or was this a move with a lot of political agendas?
Even if we think that there was indeed a political agenda, surely with all the negativity surrounding the move now and people talking about ground reality, it is a net negative for the incumbent government. So are you suggesting that the incumbent government has deliberately caused inconvenience to the public to lose the upcoming state polls.

2) Government is pressuring the citizens to use plastic currency. How practical it is to implement such a huge change within a very short time in a country like India where at least 30% of citizens are illiterate? Most of the people in remote areas doesn't even have a bank account, forget about debit and credit cards. So, if the government is pushing for such a huge change, what will happen to those people who are illiterate without any knowledge on banking procedures and online transactions?

The incumbent government has been pushing for citizens to open bank accounts for 2 years now at no cost and with zero balance accounts and to be fair it has yielded results. I would like to know what other efforts were made over the last 60 years of independence to bring people into the banking system and what point would you consider a government could make such a move?

Also a plastic card is also not always a necessity. With payment services like UPI, you don't even need a card. Of course, there should be awareness programs for bringing these into light.

I have a slightly different opinion to yours about the villages in our country as well. People are smart now. They are well aware of the situation and are more than willing to adapt if it means they can lead a better life. Also the idea should be to motivate people to get literate and show them the opportunities of literacy not perpetually keep them in their current state (as has been Congress' modus operandi for the last 60 years)

3) The concept of plastic currency itself is to be debated. I believe that one of the main reasons why India was able survive the global recession is that in India most of the transactions are made in cash payments. The markets were mostly dependent on physical cash rather than cards and online payments. This is a unique feature of Indian economy. I agree that the use of physical cash has some disadvantages. But the concept of plastic currency doesn't seems to fit the fundamentals of Indian economy. A move to plastic currency will unsettle Indian economy and will make it extremely dependent and vulnerable to external factors. I think a balance of physical and electronic payment system is necessary to keep Indian economy growing and at the same time to keep it safe from external factors.

You are incorrect. The reason recession in 2008 didn't affect us so much when compared to other countries, is not because we had better cash flow but more because our Banking system is quite stable and well controlled by the RBI. I don't want to get into the technicalities of it, but to cut a long story short it has more to do with our Banks (both public and private) being more responsible in how they give out loans and not dealing in sub-prime mortgages.

It would be very helpful to understand the intentions of the Indian government behind this move if someone could answer me the following questions which i found on social media (please answer it with some valid proofs, not just for the sake of answering). I think these questions are serious enough to demand a detailed reply from the authorities. (The questions were addressed to the PM of India, i am not going to edit all of it)

1) Is it really worth inconveniencing 125 crore people if the total black money in currency is less than 6%? Imagine, just 6%!!!! Means, even if the total black money in currency is destroyed/seized, 94% of black money is still out there. And we all know that even half of that 6% currency can't be destroyed by this action. Black money holders are easily converting their currencies through many ways. So, is it really worth the struggles of 125 crore people? Is it really worth 70+ precious life's of your citizen? Is it really worth the 70% reduction in the daily business? Is it really worth the considerable slowing down of the economy? Is it really worth the weakening of Indian Rupee? Is it really worth the loss of manpower and productivity caused by this decision?

Once again this is incorrect.I am assuming you are pointing to the below article when you make the assertion that there is only 6% of total black money in cash.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...me-tax-data/story-JfFuTiJYtxKwJQhz2ApxlL.html

The data presented that only 6% of black money could be recovered from tax raids. This doesn't mean that there's only 6% black money in currency. In fact no one actually knows the total amount of black money stored in cash because you know its unaccounted money which doesn't flow through the system, so anyone giving these numbers is bringing it up out of their arse. At best you can make a guess estimate, but clearly 6% is bullshit.

2) Could you have raided and collected more taxes by going after some of the super rich, who we all know are unethical in their business practices?
First of all not every 'super rich' has got his wealth through unethical practices. They could be law abiding citizens and paying taxes. This idea that anyone who's super rich automatically implying them as being corrupt must go. It feels more like something stemming out of jealousy than reality.

Also if the government went after the super rich and done tax raids some people would have claimed that it was all part of a vilification campaign and gone to court.With how the courts in our country function, good luck trying to get a judgement.

Even if there were such raids conducted, the amount you recover would still be significantly less than a wholesome effort.

3) When you know that 80% of the wealth of this country is with less than 15% people, does your actions are really justified?
It depends on how you look at this move. If you take this move in isolation, then its certainly not enough. But if its followed up by more such moves, including digitization of all government offices, guaranteed services at government offices without hassle, then its certainly worth it.

I don't wish to judge this move in isolation whereas you do, while I respect your opinion, I would wait a little more to pass an opinion on this move.

4) How about those Swiss accounts you so heroically were mentioning in your election campaigns? Do you have guts to even touch on that? Not just the names, even the Swiss bank account numbers are also available in the public domain? That was your election promise to the nation, you promised that the black money holders will suffer. But now all we see is the suffering of common man. Black money holders are still in the safe zone.

http://www.firstpost.com/business/b...k-ac-data-from-sept-2018-onwards-3119422.html

Well this was one of the moves made by the current government. There have been other similar moves made with countries like Mauritius as well which have been considered as tax havens. Of course, you could then make an argument that people will simply move that money to other tax havens, while that is indeed true I am sure there would be efforts made towards finding out these as well.

About the bolded bit, not every guy having black money is holding his cash in Switzerland. For example a government employee who takes bribes on a regular basis and has unaccounted money worth 10-20 crores isn't going to stash his money in Switzerland. Its those politicians who have shit load of money that do it.

So you are wrong when you say black money holders are in safe zone, they aren't. I know of guys who are currently sweating trying to find ways to dispatch off their unaccounted wealth without losing it and they aren't exactly relaxing.

5) Why did you not start with abolishing black money funding to political parties? Do you have the guts to disclose who (which businessmen) gave how much money to your campaign? Who are you trying to protect by going after the common man?

All political parties are same in this issue including AAP who's donors list Mr.Kejriwal had promised will be put up publicly on his website. Well guess what it hasn't been working for ages.

The current rule is that any party donation which is below 20000 need not be shown to the EC. If there's a change needed, then it must be put up in the Lok Sabha. Good luck with that.

Interesting anecdote, BSP has all its donations below 20000 and I mean ALL.

6) Why was Vijay Mallya allowed to fly out our country when the entire defense and immigration departments in your hands? You can track poor NGO workers and stop them from leaving the country but you cannot catch a fraudster who has cheated thousands of crores?

The government issues Look out notice. It doesn't send a goon squad to the airport and wait for Mallya's arrival every day. How would you know if it was an issue at the airport level. Could it not be that a corrupt officer took bribe and let him go? How are you 100% certain that the government was complicit in this?

7) What reply do you have on the loan wavering of corporate's including Vijay Malya's when the common man is running madly to legalise their hard earned money?

Sigh....It isn't a waive off it is a write off. There's a huge difference between a write off and a waive off. This is normal accounting practice, and guess what, has been happening for ages. I would suggest you read up the difference between a write off and a waive off.

This was a case of misreporting by media and sadly many including you fell for it. In fact this wasn't even the first time such misreporting was carried out. See below RBI's clarification issued way back in Feb when such a report was carried out.

https://rbi.org.in/Scripts/rbi_clarification.aspx

8) When you clearly knew that around 40% of Indian's still don't have a bank account and 30% of them are illiterates who either don't know or don't have facilities to legalise their hard earned money, was this the right action? It is also possible that millions of citizens in the very remote areas doesn't even know about these measures taken by you, meaning, their life savings will become just piece of papers by the end of coming month.

Where is this 40% number coming from? Could you please provide a source? Was this data recent or from prior to 2014?

I will get to the remaining when I have more time. Or maybe someone else can help out with this.
 
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9) Your own party MLA from Rajasthan was claiming on video that this news was already leaked to the likes of Ambani, Adani and other leaders and they took required measures before your announcement. (I have personally verified the contents of the said video)

There are 2 ways to look at this, first let me assume that the MLA indeed is speaking the truth. Even if Ambani,Adani and other leaders knew the truth, do you believe that all of the unaccounted money that exists in this country is with them and as a result the demonetization will have absolutely zero affect on all hoarders. If you believe that to be the case then I can tell you right away that you are inaccurate because even an electrical engineer working in the state government's office has unaccounted money and he's sweating right now.

Also even the government and the prime minister himself said that this is only the start and there are more measures that will be taken. Also Ambani and Adani won't be the guys hiding a few crores in cash under their bed if they have unaccounted money. It would be in God knows which tax haven. Even you were saying the same in this very post earlier weren't you? So which one is it?

Now assuming he was lying, he could just be a butt hurt MLA whining about losing money which he had stashed up.

10) There were multiple reports that in Gujrat, your own party president, Mr. Amit Shah's team was actively involved in exchanging of old currencies to newer once on 67-33% basis through the cooperative banks ruled by your own party. Means if you give them 1 crore rupees (100 lakh) worth old notes, they will give you 67 lakh worth new notes. Have you looked into these allegations? (Allegation was made by Mr. Yatin Ojha, right had of Modi while he was the Gujrat CM. He claimed that he got video proof and challenged Modi to prove him wrong)

You mean the same Yatin Ojha who had joined AAP, who's party President by the way has been against this move since Day 1. You didn't know Yatin Ojha had left BJP did you? Anyway if he does have indeed video proof why not release it? After all his current Party President Kejriwal loves a drama and could do a press conference on it.

11) It was widely reported that Ambani invested around 150,000 lakh crores on Jio Sim. All the calls and data transfer using this sim are totally free till December 31. December 31st is also the final day to exchange the old notes. Is there any truth in the claims that Ambani is legalizing his black money through this?

Do you remember the first time way back in the 2000s when Dhirubhai Ambani had come up with Reliance mobile? Well all customers who had the phone had received calls and data transfer free for 6 months back then as well? So what were Reliance doing then? Converting black money to white? They are just using a strategy that they used and proved quite effective at that point of time again.

This is nice to talk about as a conspiracy theory though for sure.Also I hear that Reliance would be extending the service till March.Maybe that's a conspiracy too eh?

12) Why did you appoint Mr. Urjit Patel as the new RBI Governor when it was obvious that the former Governor Mr. Raghuram Rajan was doing a fine job? Why did you not extend the term of Mr. Raghuram Rajan? Is it because Mr.Urjit Patel was the finance manager of Mr. Ambani? Don't you think that there will be a conflict of interest? Even if you had to change Mr. Raghuram Rajan, you had many other better option with much better CV's than that of Mr. Urjit Patel's. So, was this all pre-planned?

Urjit Patel has been a deputy governor in the RBI since January 2013. How is that he's an Ambani stooge now and not an Ambani stooge since 2013? Maybe its because its easier to spin the narrative into a collusion theory now than it was back then eh? Also when you are looking at successors usually you look to promote someone from within. And in this case perhaps the same was done. If you bring someone from the outside completely, then chances are that people from within the organization will feel disillusioned.

When it comes to Raghuram Rajan, I am not quite sure why there was such a big hue and cry over the government's decision to not extend his term.Since when did the media care about RBI governors so much? How many RBI governors do people/media remember from the previous years?

Maybe he was a good governor maybe he was a bad one. I am sure I don't have the right to judge his performance because what do I know about the operations undertaken by a RBI governor. I won't pretend that I have the knowledge to ascertain whether he was a good governor or not. Certainly won't based on some puff pieces written by the media.

13) You were also saying that the currency printing process started 6 months before. If that's true, then why every new currency has the signature of the new RBI Governor? If the currency started to print before 6 months, then the signature on the currency must be of the the then RBI Governor Mr. Raghuram Rajan. Are you lying to the nation? (True)

Could it be that the process of appointment of a new governor was already pre-decided as it would give enough time for the new guy to transition into the new role?

14) A BJP MLA from Bihar said that days before Prime Minister's announcement, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) bought land worth crores of rupees. His won words, “Land was being bought everywhere… In other places too, along with Bihar… We are merely the signatory authority; the money came from the party… the plots were bought for building party offices and other purposes. They were bought up to the first week of November.” The news agency which broke this news even have the names of the new owners and the amount of money spend for these lands. What reply do you have regarding this? (I have personally verified the contents of the said video)

I would like to see the source of this news as I haven't seen this news being carried out in the mainstream media. The prime minister himself said that benami properties are his next target so even if they had bought these properties up could it be that they will be caught.

Also quite funny that they claim that they are merely signatory authorities, so innocent and cute.

15) How did your party leader and their relatives got bundles of 2000 note even 2 days before your announcement?

Oh you mean the fake propaganda spread by the Congress IT cell. Oh do read up on the below if you could spare a minute.

http://www.opindia.com/2016/11/congress-it-cell-caught-spreading-lies-on-twitter-again/

16) How come an ex-minister of your party was able to conduct a 500 crore wedding just 2 days after your announcement? From where he got that kind of new currency? Or was he pre-paid all the payments, meaning he knew about this currency ban in advance? (Was all over the media, this was at a time when people can only withdraw a maximum of 20k from their accounts)

What new currency? Do you mean that fake picture on Whatsapp? Please do post the article I would love to see it.

17) Did you know that the wife of a businessman in Gujrat purchased 20 crore valued gold just few hours before your announcement on 8th of this month? (
Allegation was made by Mr. Yatin Ojha, right had of Modi while he was the Gujrat CM. He claimed that he got an eyewitness to the above incident and challenged Modi to prove him wrong)

Right. Touched on this earlier. Yatin Ojha. AAP. Kejriwal. Conspiracy. Need I say more? In any case even if someone purchases gold of 20 crore they have to provide their PAN number. Not a new rule implemented on 8th of this month by the way. Has been there for some time.

18) Why was your party bank accounts in UP and Bengal were credited with lakhs and crores of rupees worth 500 and 1000 notes just before your announcement? (The screen shot of the account statement of Bengal BJP bank account is available in the social media)

Right. You know someone has to be really stupid to bring in black money and deposit into a bank thinking he's safe because he's done it just before demonetization. Because the moment its in the bank regardless of when it was deposited, means that it is in the system, which means if its acquired through ill gains and unaccounted for, then the IT department will know about it. All they have to do is simply compare the Income declared in the previous financial year to the current financial year. Any disparity will be looked into. So lets see what the IT department does come the end of the current financial year.

19) When all the other political parties are mostly in silent mode coz of the lack of money, you and your party is able to conduct huge election rallies and conferences in many states without any trouble? How is it possible? Was this the real intention behind the demonetisation move?

Have they been really conducting so many election rallies? Because the only 2 rallies I know of in the last few days are the ones in Goa and Punjab, and even Kejriwal did rallies there. The rest were conferences which were already pre scheduled. If you know of other huge election rallies done do let me know.
If the move was really bad and the common man is suffering in any case the rallies won't have an affect right? They will lose anyway so it wouldn't matter. No?

Answer these questions with honesty, I will happily stand in line for 24 hours to get my cash.

I have shared my opinion and hopefully answered some of your questions.

When you run a political party and run a very expensive extravagant campaign with black money of rich and powerful, you cannot justify your intentions or actions. You are just harassing people. Clean up with filth in your house (i.e., corrupt political parties) before you launch a missile on the common man of this country.

I have a problem with the above statement. You know its easy to state cleaning up of filth, but the lure of money is such that it is hard for many to resist it. Corruption and any form of it needs a root and branch level cleanup. There is a reason subsidies are being linked to Aadhar and the process of filing IT returns, PF, Passport acquisition etc..have been digitized. It is to prevent corruption at these places which has been happening for many many years.

I am hoping that the current government does more in this area and bring digitization into all central and state departments especially in the property registration offices. Also probably bring in a Service Guarantee Act which would set timelines at various central and state department offices on the various services, such an act will ensure that citizens don't have to bribe their way to get work done at these offices.

As I mentioned earlier demonetization alone won't suffice, it should be viewed only as a first step. If the government fails to follow up with subsequent measures, then we will be back to status quo and the current effort will be in vain and deserves criticism. I will wait to see what the government's next move is in this area and pass judgement a year on from now. For me its too soon to tell, maybe its not the same for many and I understand and respect that. The alternate view also cannot be ignored.
 
Groundbreaking evidence. If there is anyone who can actually shed light on the whole issue, it has to be two white guys who were visiting the country. Please tell us more.
my sister and brother in law have just completed a North India holiday covering Delhi, Agra, Jodphur and Udaipur

They said the issues were a nightmare across the entire region. Even as they drove through smaller Rajasthani towns, they saw queues which were 20 deep and money changers were only giving around 60INR:£1 as opposed to the exchange rate of 85INR:£1

Every local Indian they spoke to has been negatively affected by the implementation of this: either through lack of access to currency, through increased prices (not getting ay change from cash purchases) or simply shops being closed.

I think its quite obvious that this remains a clusterfcuk and has had a major impact across the economy and society.
 
@newgiz
I'd never heard of that daughter, but this is from a BJP leader's own twitter feed on 5 Nov



Radhika Ramaseshan is a journalist who has been covering UP for decades and for the last 8 years was attached to the BJP HQ in Delhi (many of her articles are reproduced on amitshah.co.in though she is personally anti-BJP).
She and her colleagues have said that on speaking to most people, they think there will be short and medium term pain but because Modi said it will benefit them they believe it's a good move. They believe the rich are suffering even more (what Modi said about poor sleeping well and rich need pills) and eventually they will get a lot of money out of this. So politically it is still a good move, especially since BSP/SP are crippled. But if the pain continues into Jan, maybe not so much.

About Jan Dhan: it is a rebranding and acceleration of an existing scheme. And there is evidence that the growth in accounts and their use was not all legitimate.

Recession: IIRC we were ok because of many things: the lower ratio of bad loans, and maybe more importantly that our system wasn't allowed to have much exposure to outside banks. I'm sure a cash-based economy also helped a little.


Targeting the rich: For the last 30ish years, symbolically starting with the PUDR vs Union of India case, our courts have been generally less sympathetic to rich people. In fact the SC has been pushing both the UPA and NDA to do more on black money in Switzerland and to publish the names of account holders and those with large bad loans. I think it's pretty clear that actions against them would have been supported by the SC. The recent move announced after years of judicial pressure, unlike demonitisation, gives plenty of time, years instead of days, for money to be moved out. Panama papers investigation seems to be going nowhere despite Indians on that list.


How much black money is cash: Why do you think 6% is BS? It would make much more sense to park the money in property or abroad. Even if it is 18%...think about the differences between a move targeting foreign account holders vs benami property owners vs demonitisation. The 1st wouldn't inconvenience 99% of Indians at all. The 3rd would disrupt the entire economy. The 2nd would lead to huge problems in rural areas, where land pattas are inaccurate or missing, but would still affect less people, at least in the short and medium term, than demonitisation. Even if you carried out demonitisation of only 1000 not 500 notes, the disruption would be much less severe.


About Mallya leaving: believe me, if the govt really wanted him in, it could have made sure. If the officer knew the threat was of a bad transfer or losing his job if he let him leave. And Mallya himself is quite unmistakable, he can't sneak around unnoticed.

About BJP buying land: more reliable outlets have been carrying the catchnews story @Hisha linked to. TBF, it did have screenshots of the property names and owners. BJP's official explanation is that they did buy and but it was a pre-planned move and all transactions are in the public domain. But we do know that the cash part often simply isn't reported.
I don't believe the conspiracy theories about Jio at all. And that Oza stuff looked as unreliable as any whatsapp forward, so thanks for clearing it up.

I think Rajan became a rockstar for many reasons: prestigious professor at a famous economics univ, media-friendly, and was looked at as the guy pushing through good moves in the shithole that was UPA-2's later years. That continued into Modi's time, and his outspoken-ness made him more of a celeb. So that's why pushing him out when he might have stayed became a suddenly big event. I agree that it normally doesn't happen for RBI governors. But it seemed to fall into a pattern of the govt removing everyone from power who wasn't a strict loyalist.

There were multiple rallies in UP (Agra and Kanpur, and one planned for Lucknow which was cancelled on Thursday because of poor crowd at Agra). I agree that it doesn't prove anything by itself, but, all parties are known to have buses and trains for supporters, if not cash directly. For reference BSP changed its entire strategy and instead of big rallies addressed by Mayawati is now switching to small gatherings at the block level. That shows that at least for a certain section, demonitisation was a surgical strike.


Broadly, I feel that there were more efficient and far less painful ways to go after black money. That if they were serious about political corruption the centre could just follow the CIC's directive and put parties under RTI - only AAP supports this. But I think Modi has managed to create a patriotic fervour, starting with the cross-border raid, which matches 1962 when people gladly gave up their gold for the nation. Starting investigations and arresting a few businessmen months later would never have had the same impact in terms of political mobilisation.




Btw, about Urjit Patel: Ambanis have owned Pranab Mukherjee since the 80s, are good friends with Modi, so it's a good bet they like the new RBI guy too :p
 
my sister and brother in law have just completed a North India holiday covering Delhi, Agra, Jodphur and Udaipur

They said the issues were a nightmare across the entire region. Even as they drove through smaller Rajasthani towns, they saw queues which were 20 deep and money changers were only giving around 60INR:£1 as opposed to the exchange rate of 85INR:£1

Every local Indian they spoke to has been negatively affected by the implementation of this: either through lack of access to currency, through increased prices (not getting ay change from cash purchases) or simply shops being closed.

I think its quite obvious that this remains a clusterfcuk and has had a major impact across the economy and society.

The cities you've mentioned are tourist hotspots. Most of the local businesses, due to the cyclical nature of their work deal mostly in cash to avoid having to report their actual income to the govt. This is after the current govt spent the last few years pushing the banks to open free bank accounts to local farmers and businesses to protect them. No one here is arguing that it was brilliantly implemented. After all, we are talking about a country with a population of over 1.2billion. Just like any govt policy, it takes time for it to be properly implemented and once its done people will reap the benefits in the long term.
 
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@newgiz
I'd never heard of that daughter, but this is from a BJP leader's own twitter feed on 5 Nov


Firstly we don't see the picture of the guy who is holding the currency. Secondly pictures of the Rs.2000 currency note had been circulating on facebook even before the announcement. Does that mean whoever shared the picture already owned a 2000 rupee note? Could it not be that this was a picture taken at the printing press?

Radhika Ramaseshan is a journalist who has been covering UP for decades and for the last 8 years was attached to the BJP HQ in Delhi (many of her articles are reproduced on amitshah.co.in though she is personally anti-BJP).
She and her colleagues have said that on speaking to most people, they think there will be short and medium term pain but because Modi said it will benefit them they believe it's a good move. They believe the rich are suffering even more (what Modi said about poor sleeping well and rich need pills) and eventually they will get a lot of money out of this. So politically it is still a good move, especially since BSP/SP are crippled. But if the pain continues into Jan, maybe not so much.

So you agree then that if the current incumbent government fecks up then its a bad move politically. So it is a risky move yes?

About Jan Dhan: it is a rebranding and acceleration of an existing scheme. And there is evidence that the growth in accounts and their use was not all legitimate.

And what was the name of the existing scheme and how is it that it had never received the coverage the Jan Dhan accounts received and never proved to be effective? The Jan Dhan Yojana led to the opening of 25 crore accounts an unprecedented number.

The evidence you quote shows that some of these accounts have been misused by banks to fulfill their targets but it doesn't question the fact that these accounts have been legitimately opened by actual people. So would you agree that the scheme has brought in more people into the system or not?

Recession: IIRC we were ok because of many things: the lower ratio of bad loans, and maybe more importantly that our system wasn't allowed to have much exposure to outside banks. I'm sure a cash-based economy also helped a little.

The reason we did better despite the slow down is because there is less dependency on the housing sector, less bad loans, less exposure of our banks' investments to global markets and a strong RBI. What is this cash-based economy helping out argument? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

Targeting the rich: For the last 30ish years, symbolically starting with the PUDR vs Union of India case, our courts have been generally less sympathetic to rich people. In fact the SC has been pushing both the UPA and NDA to do more on black money in Switzerland and to publish the names of account holders and those with large bad loans. I think it's pretty clear that actions against them would have been supported by the SC. The recent move announced after years of judicial pressure, unlike demonitisation, gives plenty of time, years instead of days, for money to be moved out. Panama papers investigation seems to be going nowhere despite Indians on that list.

I don't disagree here. But this was the first government to setup an SIT on black money which the SC had asked the previous governments to do for many years. So there's intent in the current incumbent government than the previous ones wouldn't you agree?

Lets see what they do with regards to publishing of names though, as I don't think this government is doing enough and I agree with you on this.

How much black money is cash: Why do you think 6% is BS? It would make much more sense to park the money in property or abroad. Even if it is 18%...think about the differences between a move targeting foreign account holders vs benami property owners vs demonitisation. The 1st wouldn't inconvenience 99% of Indians at all. The 3rd would disrupt the entire economy. The 2nd would lead to huge problems in rural areas, where land pattas are inaccurate or missing, but would still affect less people, at least in the short and medium term, than demonitisation. Even if you carried out demonitisation of only 1000 not 500 notes, the disruption would be much less severe.

Could you please re-read the article on HT on how they came up with the 6% number? They basically said that the IT department mentioned that only 6% of black money could be recovered every year. I have explained on why the 6% cash is a completely wrong assumption. i am amazed someone would fall for that to be honest.

Also like I said earlier, I view demonetization as a first step that must be followed up. Even Nitish Kumar thinks its a good move and mentioned today that benami properties should be the next target (which PM had already mentioned earlier). Lets see how things go.

As per the inconvenience, I don't see how this move wouldn't have affected people regardless of when it was carried out because at some point of time this had to be done anyway to flush out the unaccounted cash.

About Mallya leaving: believe me, if the govt really wanted him in, it could have made sure. If the officer knew the threat was of a bad transfer or losing his job if he let him leave. And Mallya himself is quite unmistakable, he can't sneak around unnoticed.

I didn't say he sneaked out of the country in some covert style to be honest.:D. I am not sure when the look out notice was issued and if the information had been cascaded to all airports at the right time. I am sure his lawyers had advised him to get the feck out of India while he had the chance. The government could have been caught napping as well.

About BJP buying land: more reliable outlets have been carrying the catchnews story @Hisha linked to. TBF, it did have screenshots of the property names and owners. BJP's official explanation is that they did buy and but it was a pre-planned move and all transactions are in the public domain. But we do know that the cash part often simply isn't reported.

If they have mentioned that the move was pre-planned and the transactions are in the public domain it means that the money is accounted for. No? And if indeed they had given cash as part of the deal, I am sure the sellers would have already filed a petition in court by this time No?

I don't believe the conspiracy theories about Jio at all. And that Oza stuff looked as unreliable as any whatsapp forward, so thanks for clearing it up.

Cool

I think Rajan became a rockstar for many reasons: prestigious professor at a famous economics univ, media-friendly, and was looked at as the guy pushing through good moves in the shithole that was UPA-2's later years. That continued into Modi's time, and his outspoken-ness made him more of a celeb. So that's why pushing him out when he might have stayed became a suddenly big event. I agree that it normally doesn't happen for RBI governors. But it seemed to fall into a pattern of the govt removing everyone from power who wasn't a strict loyalist.

There is the answer. This was the first governor who was in the news quite frequently and maybe the current incumbent government didn't want someone who attracted so much media attention. Besides, its not like they fired him straight away. They just didn't extend his tenure.

There were multiple rallies in UP (Agra and Kanpur, and one planned for Lucknow which was cancelled on Thursday because of poor crowd at Agra). I agree that it doesn't prove anything by itself, but, all parties are known to have buses and trains for supporters, if not cash directly. For reference BSP changed its entire strategy and instead of big rallies addressed by Mayawati is now switching to small gatherings at the block level. That shows that at least for a certain section, demonitisation was a surgical strike.

Broadly, I feel that there were more efficient and far less painful ways to go after black money. That if they were serious about political corruption the centre could just follow the CIC's directive and put parties under RTI - only AAP supports this. But I think Modi has managed to create a patriotic fervour, starting with the cross-border raid, which matches 1962 when people gladly gave up their gold for the nation. Starting investigations and arresting a few businessmen months later would never have had the same impact in terms of political mobilisation.

I would love the CIC directive to be put in place, but you and I know very well that none of the current political parties would agree for it. Also I will wait for AAP to fix their donor list page first before I take anything they say regarding them wanting the CIC directives to be carried out seriously.

Their leader is a guy who posts drivel on twitter and resorted to rumor mongering and tried to create panic right from the first day of this move while other chief ministers were trying their best to actually help their citizens.
 
"In the long term, all of us are dead." - Manmohan Singh/ John Kenyes. :D

Yes a prime minister known for his inaction, endorsing.......inaction, because we were all going to die anyway so what's the point. Lovely.
 
Yes a prime minister known for his inaction, endorsing.......inactio-n, because we were all going to die anyway so what's the point. Lovely.

That quote by Keynes is the opposite of an endorsement of inaction.

The Greek minister is on a visit to India and thus he was interviewed. That's as standard as it gets.


And of-course it is a risky move, but I think based on the evidence we have so far it is a politically beneficial move, economics-wise it's bad short-term, probably bad medium term, unknown long term and in terms of getting black money out it's not the most effective move.

You're reading the HT article wrong about 6%. Quoting:
Cash recovery has been less than 6% of the undisclosed income seized from tax evaders, shows an HT analysis of data from tax raids from financial year 2012-13 onwards
This is not that only 6% of black money has been recovered by IT. It says that of all the black money recovered, 6% was in cash. So they are extrapolating this to unrecovered black money too. That's why I was super generous in my estimate of 18%. It's still nowhere near enough to justify this disruption.
Some pages back I had posted a long pdf dating from 2013 from the IT dept about possible measures to tackle black money, and it too mentioned that the cash percentage was not as high as the others.

See, you can say that his media savvy was the only reason Rajan was famous, I will say it's one of many reasons. It's a matter of opinion. So is omst fo the rest of the posts: you are giving the govt/BJP the benefit of the doubt, I am not (on Mallya and land transactions). And I give AAP the benefit of the doubt and you do not. That is our inbuilt bias.