Dr. Dwayne
Self proclaimed tagline king.
Racist thread.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-answered-by-the-rbi/articleshow/55320904.cms
The govt and RBI are doing many things to ensure very minimal impact for all sections. Still those who are left, that guy with twitter handle can launch an initiative along with similar minded friends, find out all these people who have no ID of any kind, no account but supposedly have piles of cash in 500 and 1000 denomination and are now going to suffer for life and then collect that money, deposit in own account and return their share back to them. We need such visionaries to do something instead of being keyboard warrior.
That's great for the English-speaking class that reads the ET. Do you really think that in these busy banks poor people who rely on others for all documents will find time away from their jobs to file all the paperwork for a new account? Acceptable photo ID? JDY accounts: millions are lying dormant, many were opened by regional bank managers without the actual account holder knowing about it.What if I don't have any bank account?
You can always open a bank account by approaching a bank branch with necessary documents required for fulfilling the KYC requirements.
What if, if I have only JDY account?
A JDY account holder can avail the exchange facility subject to the caps and other laid down limits in accord with norms and procedures
Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
Swaraj Abhiyan leader Yogendra Yadav tweeted: Positive move against counterfeit currency. Govt overplaying impact on black money. Opposition overplaying transitional problems.
Someone who knows a lot more than me and whose opinions I respect.
BIG GAME!! Food for thought??
Did Mukesh Ambhani already know about this currency change? He invested billions in Jio & made it free till Dec 30th? Ironic...
& now,the currency exchange will only be allowed till Dec 30th & from Jan 2017 he will start getting returns all in white money!!
a real masterstroke by a visionary businessman or a trick by a fraudster...
only time will tell..
no wonder the Present RBI governor was a financial advisor to Ambani's Reliance group & an inside man..!!
Conspiracy Theories!
WHAT A GAME...Hats off !
Someone who is also a politician.
The Govt's agenda with this exercise is also to target counterfeit notes in the market, conservative estimate of which is 5000 crores.
..and if they live 'salary-to-salary' those savings are likely to be not so big that amount of 4K person can't be exchanged. That too if they have that much of amount in 500 or 1000 denomination which is key point. The amount of 4K is per person so people can pool or take help of friends or family who have account.No-one is saying they have piles of cash - if they did they wouldn't be without bank accounts or ID. They live from salary-to-salary and any savings they have are likely to be in cash.
I was expecting this question, wanted to answer in earlier post but thought will wait for it to come up . From yesterday I hv got fwds of two pdfs in hindi. There will be details in newspapers too. For illiterates and those are too poor, again who are carrying 500-1000 denomination notes, some help will be needed. Given the window is for 2 months, you can't possibly expect a person to go on with life, doing transactions with people and not find out about this for that long. There are colour TVs with dish antennas in houses of poor who live in badly assembled tin or cardboard huts thanks to corrupt politicians who buy their votes this way so that is another way for people to find out. Unless someone lives under rock for 2 months in country or is a sadhu in Himalayan caves (who doesn't need money anyway ), I can't think why they will not find about this at all.hat's great for the English-speaking class that reads the ET.
..and if they live 'salary-to-salary' those savings are likely to be not so big that amount of 4K person can't be exchanged. That too if they have that much of amount in 500 or 1000 denomination which is key point. The amount of 4K is per person so people can pool or take help of friends or family who have account.
I was expecting this question, wanted to answer in earlier post but thought will wait for it to come up . From yesterday I hv got fwds of two pdfs in hindi. There will be details in newspapers too. For illiterates and those are too poor, again who are carrying 500-1000 denomination notes, some help will be needed. Given the window is for 2 months, you can't possibly expect a person to go on with life, doing transactions with people and not find out about this for that long. There are colour TVs with dish antennas in houses of poor who live in badly assembled tin or cardboard huts thanks to corrupt politicians who buy their votes this way so that is another way for people to find out. Unless someone lives under rock for 2 months in country or is a sadhu in Himalayas caves (who doesn't need money anyway ), I can't think why they will not find about this at all.
In the end, all said and done it is a great initiative. For almost all of independence, we have assumed and expected corruption, black money etc as part of our lives. Even common people in UPA-II had ceased to be surprised at new scandals every few months and had accepted that nothing can be done about black money, this will always be in our system. People had reached such stage where they were saying, "we are OK with politicians taking some cut from public funded money if they at least give us something value added from it." Finally a govt is doing something about it and with concrete steps. So, the desperate attempts like in those tweets do nothing. As I said above and in post on previous topic, we, the educated people should try to help people in our capacity starting from domestic helps at our houses. For rest, again, that keyboard warrior should launch an initiative and help all those who are getting affected 'badly.' He may get award on Republic day for it if done well.
Nope, 30th Dec.Isn't the window for conversion only till the end of this week?
1) These workers will also be spending so at announcement of yesterday shouldn't carry many 500+ notes. It could have been broken into lower denomination. More importantly than these "what-ifs" though, I don't understand why a NREGA worker is having no ID card. To exchange up to 4K, you don't need bank account as well.The reason I think they will have 500/1k notes: "daily-wage" labour in India means their payment is for no. of days work, not per month. However, they get their salary monthly/as a lumpsum from the contractor after work is finished. How much will they get? NREGA daily wage is 160, but often gets underpaid. Let' assume 80. Because of NREGA, landed farmers and building contractors have had to raise their wages. Let's say 75. 75/day >500/week. So you can safely assume they are paid in 500+ notes.
Again, on one hand you are talking about extremely poor who likely have no or very little savings and then asking hypothetical question on what they will do with the higher denomination notes? Also all these people have no ID card?And that is because of the vast numbers of people who do irregular, migratory work, who live in tribal areas, etc. For a snapshot of their lives: 26:00 - 29:00 here. Every year as the number of full-time agricultural labourers goes down by millions, manufacturing jobs stay stagnant, and urban service jobs aren't enough to compensate, these people are forced to start doing a series of part-time migratory jobs.
Yep, plenty of time to do this.Window is actually open till end of March. Just that you will have to go through more red tape after end of December
There are a lot of people for whom 500 and 1000 is an unbelievably big amount as well. There's nothing mental in it and it's high time a larger currency to 1000 was introduced. People come up with this nonsense every single time a new currency note is introduced.Off Topic - I just think the idea of a 2000 Rupee note to be mental. Imagine going out and losing one of those. You'd be seriously pissed off.
Nope, 30th Dec.
I've spent the last 6 years on and off working in Bangladesh. The govt introduced a BDT 1000 note and years later people still bitch about it...it is completely impractical.There are a lot of people for whom 500 and 1000 is an unbelievably big amount as well. There's nothing mental in it and it's high time a larger currency to 1000 was introduced. People come up with this nonsense every single time a new currency note is introduced.
Not true. For the absolute majority of those involved in black money, it's stocked in cash for most parts. Gold and investments are part of the mix ofcourse but the bulk is still cash.
In any case, it's not as if a step like this will simply eradicate black money from the country. A problem that big can never be solved in 1 step. A step like this is a welcome start though.
Even though my immediate family is entirely working class, my extended family is almost entire business class and the sheer amount of cash they stock up is absolutely incredible. There's no doubt this is a big kick in the balls.
I didn't go in that as the section of society we are talking about will struggle with red tape. Or it will be the argument.Window is actually open till end of March. Just that you will have to go through more red tape after end of December
Cool, then what is this Monday? I got confused because I know my mother is travelling and doesn't have a card (apart from ATM) so she's in trouble right now and she mentioned Monday.
About the rest: NREGA workers have ID and accounts because after 2008/9 all NREGA payments have been to the account to curb leakages. But this was done over a few months and even then many people didn't get their salary on time.
No, I referred to NREGA as a reference for daily wage levels, to explain why poor people may also have these notes. Even people with a total monthly income <2000 (which is a rough estimate from my assumptions) will get paid with 500 notes, so you can be both extremely poor and have these notes (as part of your savings not necessarily for daily use).
What are the top ways for people earn 'black money', where does it come from? Is it just bribes etc or another form of corruption or illegality?
- I am guessing pumping it into a bank account? Or atleast a small part of it.A friend just told me about a begger who approached his uncle with the dilemma that he has 13lakh in cash and he doesn't know what to do.
Pay the taxhe has 13lakh in cash and he doesn't know what to do.
There's no option anymorePay the tax
Easily. More than that in all probability.I once heard that there's enough wedding gold hidden away in south Asia to cover the national debt of India, pakistan and bangladesh
Unaccounted sales.What are the top ways for people earn 'black money', where does it come from? Is it just bribes etc or another form of corruption or illegality?
and 200% penalty.Pay the tax
There's no option anymore
and 200% penalty.
Which would be almost equal to the entire amount deposited in the bank
Govt had a scheme in place until September 30 of this year wherein you could disclose your unaccounted/black money, pay the tax on it and bring it into the system. This move now is basically a feck you by the government to people who could and should have declared their unaccounted income when the opportunity was given to them.What will happen to the money? it supposedly just disappears from the economy?
Woulnt it have been better to make the black money merchants spend the money, to get it into the global economy in a way that also strengthened India? I cant think of a way, but Ive not thought about it. Im sure a bunch of Indian economists could spend a couple of weeks and crack a win win system.
100% this.Possibly the largest 'legit' money laundering operation in the subcontinent is the real estate business and that's from personal experience.
Businesses(including private clinics run by doctors) dealing in cash(without bills), real estate where you pay a huge portion via cash(off the books), bribes, commissions, etc. Basically any earning that these guys have where they don't show the income and thus avoid tax.What are the top ways for people earn 'black money', where does it come from? Is it just bribes etc or another form of corruption or illegality?
I didn't go in that as the section of society we are talking about will struggle with red tape. Or it will be the argument.
Banks were closed today and will probably be tomorrow and ATMs were going to be closed for a day. Maybe she mentioned Monday for the time she assumed she can go to bank next but banks are going to be open on Saturday and Sunday. Plus ATMs should be active again from tomorrow.
Having 500 notes is not a problem even if one doesn't have bank account. They can get it exchanged from tomorrow/day after provided they have ID.
nothing wrong with that lol serves the evaders right.Govt had a scheme in place until September 30 of this year wherein you could disclose your unaccounted/black money, pay the tax on it and bring it into the system. This move now is basically a feck you by the government to people who could and should have declared their unaccounted income when the opportunity was given to them.
Some of us in India have paid, what I call, the ‘honesty tax’ for decades. Our money is salaried, there is nothing on top, we pay our taxes, keep our accounts clean, pay for large spends by card, do real estate deals in white and become the guys who obey traffic signals while others in bigger cars zoom away with a smirk. We pull out our cards and carry home our small shopping bag. The guy in the next aisle pulls out a brick of cash and thumbs out a lakh in notes to take home the high-value gadget. We drive our Maruti home with the EMI (equated monthly instalment) sitting in the backseat, the luxury SUV guy comes with a sack of cash and scrapes our car out of his way. We wait to buy a house with white money, don’t get the choice set, pay more and end up feeling like losers for being honest.
For decades, the honest have felt like fools in a nation that runs on graft. The complicity, and active encouragement, of the political leadership gave feet, legs and body to this parallel economy. There is a saying that in any organisation 25% of the people will be honest, always; 25% will be corrupt, always; and the middle 50% will look at the boss and do what he does. The political boss has spoken in India finally, giving teeth to the war against corruption by making currency notes of Rs500 and Rs1,000 worthless overnight.
Why will this help? It makes the current stash of undeclared cash useless. Those who did not take the government seriously and did not declare their unaccounted income by 30 September, by paying a 45% tax plus penalty, now see a 100% loss rather than a partial loss. Those who converted their cash into gold, art and real estate—the three sumps of black money—will sit on their assets for a while. When they do sell, the deal is likely to be completed electronically rather than in cash. With buyers unable to pay with old stashes of cash, how will the sellers sell? They will either barter or be forced to use a bank to route the money. Barter may work: in 2008, during the financial crisis, certain kinds of art became currency, after the price inflation in gold made it a bubble. Something similar may happen here too. Is it the end of black money? No. This is about raising the cost of keeping unaccounted for cash. There will be an underground market for sure: already you hear of a Rs1,000 note selling for Rs300 in the Mumbai grey market, but it just gets tougher to keep it black.
What about conversion to gold and real estate? Yes, conversion to gold will happen. But think it through— will you see a guy pull out five gold coins to buy an iPad at a mall? The government is just making the use of black money difficult. Why give just 4 hours? What would have happened in a month? It may have made the transition easier. Two things. One: cash would have been converted to gold and high-value purchases over the month. Already there are reports of brisk sales by jewellers till early morning of 9 November. Cash hoarders would have found ways to convert their money.
Two: cash that was about to die, would have found its way to the weakest in the food chain: those who don’t know they have to, or don’t have the power to, say no to getting paid with such notes.
End note
It’s not as if Prime Minister Narendra Modi has not taken a risk—both personal and political. The move to demonetise currency notes, to suck out black money, will upset BJP’s key constituency: traders, realtors and small businessmen. The ground speak is that this government doesn’t know how to do dhanda (business)—who pays 30% tax anyway? It is unlikely that the party cadres preparing for election were prepared with Rs100 currency notes. If other parties have lost money, so has the BJP cadre. This is a big political risk. Modi is probably calculating that things would settle down in the next 18 months before the next general election. Modi also risks short-term growth by removing cash from the market. This cash pays for jewellery, high-value cars, gadgets, clothes, hotel bills. By suddenly making the stashes of cash useless, he risks offtake of goods from the market, which could affect the economy.
So the risk is real. Modi has taken a calculated gamble and we’re all hoping that it pays off. No transition is painless. He is pressing the reset button on corruption. We, who had so desperately wanted to kill corruption, now need to support this bold move by the government.