Can't wait for him to become PM. It will be a riot, even literally.
India politics thread
- Thread starter Shiva87
- Start date
Crazy. And here I was thinking the actual cases were 5 times more, at the most.
Can someone explain the Bhil Tribe and their relationship with the Gujarat's government? Has it always been this sour?
My very limited knowledge extends to the fact they have worked on our family land and home for nearly a century (Gujarat). The Bhil community as I remember as a child and going back since is basically a community who lives on the outskirts of villages and generally live for the day and get merry at night. Very peace-loving and never any issues that I have ever heard.
They are now slowly getting to understand their rights and know the fields cannot be cultivated by the landowners without their aid.
They're labour and land cultivating skills is massively in demand and get better financial benefits (Most landowners "Patel's" are now abroad and not many able-bodied available to cultivate the land).
The Bhil community basically works on family lands or alternatively go to cities and look for labour work paying around 300 Rupees a day. The link below referencing Narbada Dam is basically a few kilometres from where I was born, and yes, they have lost their ancestral homes and land and had to set-up in villages around the river.
Apologies, I'm not sure about their relationship with the Gujarat government. If I had to make a guess they would not get an ear from anyone in office unless an NGO took up their case.
https://asiatimes.com/2018/02/indias-bhil-tribe-struggles-cope-modernization/
Is there any country which went towards an autocratic regime and managed to save itself? I don't consider US as a good example (assuming Trump goes) since their independent institutions have not completely bent over.
I'm struggling to find any source of optimism. It is stunning how a majority of population has just given up on facts, judiciary and law and order.
I'm struggling to find any source of optimism. It is stunning how a majority of population has just given up on facts, judiciary and law and order.
India 1975-77 
Interesting qs is if Modi did the same forced sterilisations that Indira and Sanjay did, would he lost popularity? After what happened with demonitisation I don't know.
Also what if she didn't call elections in 77, I have no idea what would have happened.
Interesting qs is if Modi did the same forced sterilisations that Indira and Sanjay did, would he lost popularity? After what happened with demonitisation I don't know.
Also what if she didn't call elections in 77, I have no idea what would have happened.
“This is an insidious attempt to malign a community”: Extraordinary observations by Supreme Court as it restrains Sudarshan TV from Islamophobic broadcast on ‘inflitration of Muslims’ in civil services
http://www.jantakareporter.com/ente...-inflitration-of-muslims-in-civil-ser/304911/
http://www.jantakareporter.com/ente...-inflitration-of-muslims-in-civil-ser/304911/
"If things were so hunky-dory, we wouldn't have to see what we see on TV every day": 13 remarks made during the "UPSC Jihad" hearing in SC
The Supreme Court's hearing in the plea filed against Sudarshan TV's show on "UPSC Jihad" today witnessed several interesting exchanges touching upon the permissible limits of free speech, journalistic ethics, and the Court's role in such areas.
Here are some of the interesting comments made today during the hearing presided over by the Bench of Justices DY Chandrachud, Indu Malhotra and KM Joseph.
1. "We need to look at the ownership of the visual media. Entire shareholding pattern of the company must be on the site for the public. The revenue model of that company should also be put up to check if the government is putting more ads in one and less in another." - Justice KM Joseph
2. "Media can't fall foul of standards prescribed by themselves. Next, in debates, one needs to see the role of the anchor, how one listens when others speak. Check in the TV debates the percentage of time taken by the anchor to speak. They mute the speaker and ask questions." - Justice KM Joseph
3. "Power of electronic media is huge. Electronic media can become the focal point by targeting particular communities or groups." - Justice DY Chandrachud
4. "The anchor's grievance is that a particular group is gaining entry into the civil services. How insidious is this?...Such insidious charges also put a question mark on the UPSC exams. Aspersions have been cast on UPSC. Such allegations without any factual basis, how can this be allowed? Can such programs be allowed in a free society?" - Justice DY Chandrachud
5. "Freedom of the journalist is supreme... It would be disastrous for any democracy to control press...There is also a parallel media other than electronic media where a laptop and a journalist can lead to lakhs of people viewing their content." - Solicitor General Tushar Mehta
6. "We are not on social media today. We cannot choose not to regulate one thing because we cannot regulate all." - Justice Chandrachud, in response to SG Mehta's concerns
7. "When we talk about journalistic freedom, it is not absolute. He shares the same freedom as other citizens. There is no separate freedom for journalists like in the US. We need journalists who are fair in their debates." - Justice Joseph
8. "Your client is doing a disservice to the nation and is not accepting that India is a melting point of diverse culture. Your client needs to exercise his freedom with caution." - Justice Chandrachud to Shyam Divan, who appeared for Sudarshan TV
9. "Gautam Bhatia has a blog which I read too. He has a statutory warning too (smiles). But that cannot be compared to profit-making entities. An intellectual blog on academic interests is very different than such organizations..." - Justice Chandrachud in response to SG Mehta's claim that electronic and print media cannot be compartmentalised
10. "As the Supreme Court of the nation, we cannot allow you to say that Muslims are infiltrating civil services. You cannot say that the journalist has absolute freedom doing this." - Justice Chandrachud
11. "We need to ask you if you exist apart from the letter head. What do you do when a parallel criminal investigation goes on in the media and reputation is tarnished?" - Justice Chandrachud to counsel for News Broadcasters Association
12. "The edifice of a stable democratic society and observance of constitutional rights and duties is based on the coexistence of communities. Any attempt to vilify a community must be viewed with disfavour." - Justice Chandrachud, in the order passed today
13. "Really? If things would have been so hunky-dory, then we would not have to see what we see on TV every day." - Justice Chandrachud responding to Press Council of India's submission that it had regulations in place
Following today's hearing, the Court has passed an interim order injuncting Sudarshan TV from airing any more episodes of their "UPSC Jihad" show. The matter will be heard next on September 17.
https://www.barandbench.com/news/litigation/supreme-court-13-remarks-during-upsc-jihad-hearing
The Supreme Court's hearing in the plea filed against Sudarshan TV's show on "UPSC Jihad" today witnessed several interesting exchanges touching upon the permissible limits of free speech, journalistic ethics, and the Court's role in such areas.
Here are some of the interesting comments made today during the hearing presided over by the Bench of Justices DY Chandrachud, Indu Malhotra and KM Joseph.
1. "We need to look at the ownership of the visual media. Entire shareholding pattern of the company must be on the site for the public. The revenue model of that company should also be put up to check if the government is putting more ads in one and less in another." - Justice KM Joseph
2. "Media can't fall foul of standards prescribed by themselves. Next, in debates, one needs to see the role of the anchor, how one listens when others speak. Check in the TV debates the percentage of time taken by the anchor to speak. They mute the speaker and ask questions." - Justice KM Joseph
3. "Power of electronic media is huge. Electronic media can become the focal point by targeting particular communities or groups." - Justice DY Chandrachud
4. "The anchor's grievance is that a particular group is gaining entry into the civil services. How insidious is this?...Such insidious charges also put a question mark on the UPSC exams. Aspersions have been cast on UPSC. Such allegations without any factual basis, how can this be allowed? Can such programs be allowed in a free society?" - Justice DY Chandrachud
5. "Freedom of the journalist is supreme... It would be disastrous for any democracy to control press...There is also a parallel media other than electronic media where a laptop and a journalist can lead to lakhs of people viewing their content." - Solicitor General Tushar Mehta
6. "We are not on social media today. We cannot choose not to regulate one thing because we cannot regulate all." - Justice Chandrachud, in response to SG Mehta's concerns
7. "When we talk about journalistic freedom, it is not absolute. He shares the same freedom as other citizens. There is no separate freedom for journalists like in the US. We need journalists who are fair in their debates." - Justice Joseph
8. "Your client is doing a disservice to the nation and is not accepting that India is a melting point of diverse culture. Your client needs to exercise his freedom with caution." - Justice Chandrachud to Shyam Divan, who appeared for Sudarshan TV
9. "Gautam Bhatia has a blog which I read too. He has a statutory warning too (smiles). But that cannot be compared to profit-making entities. An intellectual blog on academic interests is very different than such organizations..." - Justice Chandrachud in response to SG Mehta's claim that electronic and print media cannot be compartmentalised
10. "As the Supreme Court of the nation, we cannot allow you to say that Muslims are infiltrating civil services. You cannot say that the journalist has absolute freedom doing this." - Justice Chandrachud
11. "We need to ask you if you exist apart from the letter head. What do you do when a parallel criminal investigation goes on in the media and reputation is tarnished?" - Justice Chandrachud to counsel for News Broadcasters Association
12. "The edifice of a stable democratic society and observance of constitutional rights and duties is based on the coexistence of communities. Any attempt to vilify a community must be viewed with disfavour." - Justice Chandrachud, in the order passed today
13. "Really? If things would have been so hunky-dory, then we would not have to see what we see on TV every day." - Justice Chandrachud responding to Press Council of India's submission that it had regulations in place
Following today's hearing, the Court has passed an interim order injuncting Sudarshan TV from airing any more episodes of their "UPSC Jihad" show. The matter will be heard next on September 17.
https://www.barandbench.com/news/litigation/supreme-court-13-remarks-during-upsc-jihad-hearing
He’s like a demi-god for the majority. He can even sell shit on a stick to them.India 1975-77
Interesting qs is if Modi did the same forced sterilisations that Indira and Sanjay did, would he lost popularity? After what happened with demonitisation I don't know.
Also what if she didn't call elections in 77, I have no idea what would have happened.
Unbelivable that the majority of the populace supports this. Empathy is dead.
Our govt silently surrenders land whilst pretending to be a nationalist govt and no questions raised by the media who also pretends to be nationalist! Rather anyone who raises the issue is labelled a traitor.
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Thread
A crying shame what parts of India has become over the last few years. A measure of a country is how it treats it minorities.
Tear inducing video.
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Now they are opening a military base in the Maldives. For what? The Maldivan public is in an uproar and the hashtag indiaout is the most popular one in Maldives now.
I thought it was a US military base in agreement with the Maldivian government and tacit collaboration with India.
It is bound to happen, If not an US one, then the Chinese will built one within the next 3 years considering they've already made much inroads into China during the previous regime.
The twitter rage from the likes of DereK O Brein, Ra Ga and Tharoor amounts to nothing. If they don't dare to use their influence/money and get people on the ground to protest, there won't be any democracy to save.
Again, why should BJP care about democracy or about opposition. They have been given a free hand to do whatever they can with the country. All the 4 pillars are compromised and filled in with a bunch of yes men.
Chakka jam = sedition in India 2020
*Wah re NaMo..*
*Deep blows*
*Awesome trick…*
*Agriculture Bill is Demonetization Part 2.*
*As demonetisation had destroyed the black money hoarders*
*Similarly, two heavy weights of Punjab and Maharashtra were ruined by this bill.*
*Sukhbir Badal of Punjab and Sharad Pawar of Maharashtra.*
*Sukhbir Agro of Sukhbir had an income of at least 5000 crores annually. He was the commission agent between FCI and farmers. His company used to get 2.5% commission. All the warehouses belonged to him.* *No farmer could sell a ton of wheat to the FCI without the tag of Sukhbir Agro.*
*All wasted in one stroke.*
*Sharad Pawar's daughter Supriya Sule in Maharashtra used to show agricultural income of 10000 crores*
*It was the control of the entire family onion, chilli and grape trade*
*This bill left Pawar nowhere.*
*Modi cuts the root, does not cut the branches.*
*Akali Dal and NCP will be seen begging in next election.*
*#Wah re Namo*
*Deep blows*
*Awesome trick…*
*Agriculture Bill is Demonetization Part 2.*
*As demonetisation had destroyed the black money hoarders*
*Similarly, two heavy weights of Punjab and Maharashtra were ruined by this bill.*
*Sukhbir Badal of Punjab and Sharad Pawar of Maharashtra.*
*Sukhbir Agro of Sukhbir had an income of at least 5000 crores annually. He was the commission agent between FCI and farmers. His company used to get 2.5% commission. All the warehouses belonged to him.* *No farmer could sell a ton of wheat to the FCI without the tag of Sukhbir Agro.*
*All wasted in one stroke.*
*Sharad Pawar's daughter Supriya Sule in Maharashtra used to show agricultural income of 10000 crores*
*It was the control of the entire family onion, chilli and grape trade*
*This bill left Pawar nowhere.*
*Modi cuts the root, does not cut the branches.*
*Akali Dal and NCP will be seen begging in next election.*
*#Wah re Namo*
India 1975-77
Interesting qs is if Modi did the same forced sterilisations that Indira and Sanjay did, would he lost popularity? After what happened with demonitisation I don't know.
Also what if she didn't call elections in 77, I have no idea what would have happened.
Modi's emergency looks decidedly different than Indira's. Emergency hit the rural and poorest the hardest while upper/middle class loved it and saw the sterilisation attempts as necessary to control population explosion amongst poor. Similarly I still hear some middle aged folks talking positively about Sanjay Gandhi as to how he empowered bureaucrats like Jagmohan to clean up cities of illegal construction.
Modi on the other hand is definitely leaning on ever increasing populist schemes to maintain his popularity amongst rural folks. Be it may that most of the schemes are superficial in nature but the lesson he learnt from the much hyped Gujarat development model was that only the perception matters. Demonetisation successfully built up the perception that he is targeting black money, surgical strikers did the same with respect to National security. That is why he is not behaving like your standard right wing strong man when it comes to the confrontation with China, he knows that chances of selling the idea of beating China would be impossible if India side suffers huge casualties in a direct conflict. That is also the reason why he is not necessarily pushing the the kind of reformist economic policies you saw during Vajpayee's Govt. Though crony corruption to benefit a select few like Adani is still on-going. But it seems the Modi does not care about projecting India as a big economic story anymore and instead would be happy to turn back clock to the age of license Raj if it mean more direct contract and credit over the benefits being delivered to rural India. Upper class/Upper middle class is not impacted by current economic crisis and would happily support Modi/Shah for communal agenda, keep rural happy with populist schemes and then you can feck the middle class/lower middle class. It would cost them some cities like Delhi but allow them to capture bigger states.
BTW till date the most plausible theory behind Indira calling elections is that she lost the support of the army.
^^^^ Above why I am for unmitigated freedom of speech rights. I would rather some loony right wing channel ran whatever communal diatribe than come up with some provision to empower Govt to ban more things. This seems like a perfect trap set by Govt to censor likes of scoll, wire, newslanudry etc. When would lefties learn that once you open up any possibility to censor for "right" reasons, ultimately it will be used for nefarious purposes also.
This thought crossed my mind but I dont think they can censor internet publications. That just won't fly under 19(1)(a)
For the bolded part - after the various labour laws he and state govts are trying, and now the farm bill, not sure that that is true.
Yes for sure, they already arrested some Wire people in UP.
You think this is because of the laws as they exist on paper, I think this is because the laws are just a rubber-stamp. In the US they can do crazy things on national security grounds (our sealed cover supreme court still has nothing on a FISA court) despite the blanket protection of the 1st amendment. And when free speech and really powerful state interests collide (during the first red scare for example), it was not the paper but the power that wins.
Yes, US today has much better speech protections than India today. But IMO the difference made by a more blanket Art.19 is minor. The court's understanding of the same consitution changes depending on if you look at 1975-77 and 2014-2020 or some other time (not that there haven't been awful judgements otherwise too, but I think the trend is clear now).
Besides, one can argue that it is the communal diatribes that have brought us to this moment, but that is very difficult to prove of course.
I felt the lawyer argued that point pretty well, despite the gaslighting by the channel and the govt.
But industry in general is also not happy with his overall policies. The Govt is definitely trending towards levying higher taxes to over come the slow growth. Heck middle class is going to be distraught budget and budget when Govt does not change tax slabs for tax benefits. They came up with some nonsensical change last time just to get some PR for giving benefits to some when in reality none were provided.
Not disagreeing with your points. Unless you are in a utopia, it is impossible to have perfect freedom of speech law enforced anywhere. Even Scandinavian countries were at loss over the right thing to do when the protests over cartoons erupted. So there will always be such examples for a place like US also.
Similarly for India, all kinds of written laws and policies are openly flouted or not followed. But I do believe it is still important to preserve a certain level sanity in actual codified laws so that there is a baseline of normalcy to return to after events like Indira's emergency or Modi's authoritarian rule. This allows some level of press scrutiny despite Govt's attempts to muddle all dissent. Otherwise you are heading to a permanent situation like this - https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/22/asia/china-ren-zhiqiang-xi-jinping-intl-hnk/index.html.
The UPSC Jihad show is outrageous and pretty much qualifies as hate speech IMO. But I would still err on the side of caution rather than codify power of govt to regulate media. I recognise fully well that I am able to take this stance due to privilege of not being under immediate threat posed by misinformation or hate speech spread by such media channels. In long term, even the marginalised communities would be worse of with such regulation since Govt will use it to censor all kinds of media.Just look at the normalcy of censorship of work of arts in India- books, movies etc. Even if precedent for same had not been established, this or any other Govt might have started doing it anyway but the act of doing it over so many decades by different Govts has given legitimacy to this kind of censorship which is now used by all political leaders to ban anything they don't like. So even if you defeat Media this remains an accepted facet of democracy in India. Same will be true of media regulation.
First destroy economy, create unemployment and then kill off the middle class and poor.
Inb4 anti-nationals and getting slapped with UAPA and NSA
Anti-national CAG flagging government misdoings 
