I think the current squad is better suited to cope with a season long injury to Valencia than the 2008 squad was to coping with a similar injury to Ronaldo; Giggs is just as good as he was then and will probably be able to play a similar number of games, and Nani is three times the player he was two years ago; i reckon the only real negative now in comparison to then is Park being out of form. Take either winger out of the equation - Valencia this season or Ronaldo two years ago - and it puts pressure on the wings; you can't say that being unlucky with injuries evidence of a decline.
In Fergie we Rust.
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I think the current squad is better suited to cope with a season long injury to Valencia than the 2008 squad was to coping with a similar injury to Ronaldo; Giggs is just as good as he was then and will probably be able to play a similar number of games, and Nani is three times the player he was two years ago; i reckon the only real negative now in comparison to then is Park being out of form. Take either winger out of the equation - Valencia this season or Ronaldo two years ago - and it puts pressure on the wings; you can't say that being unlucky with injuries evidence of a decline.
What more could he do?
Personally I don't think we'll ever see him here anyway...... unless he's with Real Madrid.
Agreed, and I don't see him staying there beyond three seasons.
I think youve gone and got quality and quantity all mixed up there Rood.
Do you even understand what 4th/5th choice means? Apparently not
Agree with all of that.
I also think we have better options out wide in terms of wingers currently playing for our reserves.
In 2008, once you got past Ronaldo, Park, Giggs and (a vastly inferior version of) Nani we were down to the likes of Lee Martin, who was never much cop. Obertan, Bebe and Cleverley are much more interesting prospects.
Explain?
Can we slate Gibson now please? And then we can move onto having a go at Evra and Fletch before finishing with some Bebe bashing.
Well done. The tag was a joke caused by myself ripping someone else for wanting recognition on an internet forum. I couldnt care less mate.
Play well, hold the ball up a lot better, link up better, show better ball control, just little, unimportant things like that
He's a great finisher but his all round game leaves a lot to be desired IMO, he's failed to really improve his game from the time he first burst onto the scene, from what I've seen.
I'm sure a lot of folks will disagree with that, but I'm just not convinced he'll turn out as good as people believe he will.
Don't dismiss Owen so quickly. He's scored 3 goals for us in only 200mins on the pitch. That's virtually the equivalent of 1.5 goals per game.
Three, actually.
We were mainly playing 433 in 2008 though, with Rooney on the left, meaning we had more options there than you're suggesting.
I'm a huge fan of Valencia and think he was a brilliant signing. I also think his injury and the effect it might have on our season has been underplayed here. I still think, however, that we will struggle to compensate for his absence this season and that lack of real, true United quality options highlights the lack of options SAF has open to him in 2010.
I'm not saying he should have those options open to him, I'm not saying we should sign Benzema and Kaka, and I'm certainly not criticising Alex Ferguson, I'm just pointing out that we're worse equipped to cover for a single player's absence than we have been in the past and that this reflects a general decline in the overall strength of our squad.
Thanks I've amended my post.
I think that's right.
You look at any team in any sport, and a moment or season of great success like we had in 1999/2008 is nearly always followed by a decline and then a lul. It's no different this time and I doubt it'd matter who the manager was...in fact Fergie's better placed than anyone else as he's got the experience of needed from 1999.
Thank you. Although I still have a headache.
People underestimate just how much Valencia's consistent performance brought to the team last season. He was huge in terms of elevating Rooney's form. (although someone probably could make the argument that Rooney's skyrocketing ego might have contributed to the more problematic rocket situation down below)
Damn you, Valencia.
bebashing.
Lets not forget, we lost the league by a point last season and really we SHOULD have beaten Munich who of course got to the final of the champions league.
Decline? We're not Liverpool. We've just been sloppy. We have young talent at the club who could make a world of difference in a year or two. Losing Giggs experience on Saturday was a massive blow but this is when the likes of Carrick especially HAVE to show their experience because we have Anderson, Gibson...
Scholes comes on but really it's a short term solution. I think we lack a bit of guts in the middle but we're not on the decline. Anyone that thinks we are is a moron.
Decline? We're not Liverpool. We've just been sloppy. We have young talent at the club who could make a world of difference in a year or two. Losing Giggs experience on Saturday was a massive blow but this is when the likes of Carrick especially HAVE to show their experience because we have Anderson, Gibson...
Scholes comes on but really it's a short term solution. I think we lack a bit of guts in the middle but we're not on the decline. Anyone that thinks we are is a moron.
If Rob Smyth comes up with this shite, he becomes a pantomime villain.
wow - that's better then when we won the treble. 2 of 3 only midfielders who can pass the ball straight are well over their 30s. That's a concern isnt it?
If RR has to explain then it's clearly beyond your scope of understanding
Seriously though, taking a step back from our obvious rose tinted bias on all things United if you take Rooney out of this squad what and how many genuine top level attacking players do we really possess at the moment?
Berbatov
Nani
Valencia
Giggs
...
..
.
Now were struggling, then factor in Giggs is picking up his pension next year and Valencias out for 6 months and who knows how long it will take him to get back to the level he was at and were kinda in trouble arnt we? as it stands minus Rooney weve just 2 quality attacking options which is surely extremely worrying?
Berbatov
Nani
Valencia
Giggs
...
..
.
Now were struggling, then factor in Giggs is picking up his pension next year and Valencias out for 6 months and who knows how long it will take him to get back to the level he was at and were kinda in trouble arnt we? as it stands minus Rooney weve just 2 quality attacking options which is surely extremely worrying?
Which is precisely what the vast majority of fans I spoke to after the game were saying.
The lack of quality in this present squad is what's disturbing.
Don't forget that Diouf and Welbeck are on loan and can surely be recalled.
TBF, I wouldn't even rank Valencia and Berbatov as "top level". Good player's, yes, world-class? Not at all. As for Giggs, you rightly mention his age and limited time left in the game.
Nani will become a top, top player IMO, but after him we are really scrapping the barrell when looking for top quality attacking talent within our ranks IMO
I think most people agree that given the £80m transfer kitty and the large reduction of wages (probably around 200k a week inc. Tevez), we should have strengthened other areas to compensate for the loss, not just sign a decent young winger from Wigan and a crocked striker on a freebie who never gets given a game.
It also pisses people off that the £80m has been sitting there for years now (apparently), whilst players such as Sneijder, Robben, Milito, Silva, Van Der Vaart, Ozil etc have moved clubs for reasonable - great prices, whilst Fergie has said there is no value in the market. All of which are exactly the type of player that would fit perfectly into our squad.
I do semi-agree though, replacing the best player in the world and one of the best strikers in the world in one close season would have been a monumental task, but one that we didn't even attempt to carry out.
Is this even in English?
Not really - when they retire they will be replaced with new players who can pass the ball straight
Are you talking about United or Liverpool?
Some think that they will be replaced by Gibson and co, while Welbeck can replace Rooney.
The team is in decline and some of our best players (VDS, Scholes, Giggs) are ageing. Im not saying that its all doom and gloom. Nani had been magnificent, Berba is improving and Fletch had proved solid. On the other hand lets not kid ourselves by saying that the team is getting stronger by the day, it really isnt the case.
One thing that does get forgotten is just how incredible the run we have had since Fergie took over has been. I cant think of another single manager who has had such an influence in English football. Liverpool had their great years but they were done under a succession of managers and even their burst in England doesnt match Fergies.
The point Im heading towards is that we have been incredibly spoilt and have become used to for the overwhelming vast majority of fans of all teams an unreaslistic level of expectation.
I remember the day we were relegated, there are a large number of our fans who luckily dont have that memory.
The point Im heading towards is that we have been incredibly spoilt and have become used to for the overwhelming vast majority of fans of all teams an unreaslistic level of expectation.
I remember the day we were relegated, there are a large number of our fans who luckily dont have that memory.
Who thinks that? I dont think you will find many on here who don't think we will need to buy players to replace Giggs/Scholes/Rooney/etc
And who says that? No one
Well you spent a load of money on Hargreaves, Nani, Anderson and Berbatov. Hargreaves was unfortunately injury ridden, Anderson doesn't look up to it. Berbatov's been OK and Nani looks like he could be the golden chick from four expensive eggs.
Yes indeed - money has been spent and it will be spent again when required.
Nani has stepped up a level and Berba is starting to deliver as well (2 players who a large percentage had written off this time last season) - Anderson is make or break this season. Hargo is the killer as I think Fergie has kept hoping he would be back but it hasnt happened yet.
More recently Valencia proved good value and I reckon Hernandez will prove to have been a great bargain.
Play well, hold the ball up a lot better, link up better, show better ball control, just little, unimportant things like that
He's a great finisher but his all round game leaves a lot to be desired IMO, he's failed to really improve his game from the time he first burst onto the scene, from what I've seen.
I'm sure a lot of folks will disagree with that, but I'm just not convinced he'll turn out as good as people believe he will.
Remember he's just turned 19, why does everyone expect these kids who are hyped up to be the finish article straight away. Not every prospect is as good as the Rooney's and Wilshere's at that age!
Granted his improvement hasn't been as rapid as we'd like to expect, he did have much bad luck with injuries last season so taking that into consideration this season is pretty much his first full season since he burst onto the scene. How is he meant to improve recovering from injuries all season?
Pity about Hargo's calf injury. Him on the pitch would be a nice distraction to what's going on at the moment.
Who says any of this, except your imaginary world friends?
There are people in here that think that we have the players to do well without having to dip our feet in the transfer market. Just check and see by yourself