In Fergie we Rust.

Carl

has permanently erect nipples
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
45,846
I am, of course, only joking.

I heard someone coin that phrase on one of the post match radio phone ins. He was a bit mental but he did make the point of just how much our squad has declined in 2 years.

I still think we have a good side, but the decline has been rather rapid and very visable.

Discuss.
 
Ronaldo - Wanted to leave, got an extra year out of him
Tevez - kicked up a stink, we never really had him in the first place

Who else major has left? Silvestre? Saha?

This whole stuff is really boring me now.
 
Hardly rapid is it? 2nd last season and a couple of months into the new season.
 
The same thing happened after we won the treble in 1999, the team declined and we brought in a load of players not up to the job (Kleberson etc). It seems we might end up going through a similar thing post 2008.
 
All this talk of decline is idiotic

May I remind everyone that we were 1 point away from winning an unprecendented 4 in a row last year and not too far off a 3rd CL Final in a row either.

Decline my arse.
 
Xander45 said:
Ronaldo - Wanted to leave, got an extra year out of him
Tevez - kicked up a stink, we never really had him in the first place

Who else major has left?
Click to expand...

The fact we haven't replaced them adequately and a fair few player's have declined for various reasons in the last couple of years is the reason for our relative mediocrity.

The fact that "only" Ronaldo and Tevez left, is a shite argument as they are big factors and along with some player's being past their peak, has left us well short of those standards.
 
Xander45 said:
Ronaldo - Wanted to leave, got an extra year out of him
Tevez - kicked up a stink, we never really had him in the first place

Who else major has left? Silvestre? Saha?

This whole stuff is really boring me now.
Click to expand...

No-one else major has left.

Leg-End said:
Hardly rapid is it? 2nd last season and a couple of months into the new season.
Click to expand...

We may have been second in the table but there was a big difference in our performances. How many games did we lose?
 
Rood said:
All this talk of decline is idiotic

May I remind everyone that we were 1 point away from winning an unprecendented 4 in a row last year and not too far off a 3rd CL Final in a row either.

Decline my arse.
Click to expand...

There has been an obvious decline. It's not as bad as most make out, but denying there has been one is simply sticking your head in the sand.
 
WireRed said:
The fact we haven't replaced them adequately and a fair few player's have declined for various reasons in the last couple of years is the reason for our relative mediocrity.

The fact that "only" Ronaldo and Tevez left, is a shite argument as they are big factors and along with some player's being past their peak, has left us well short of those standards.
Click to expand...

How could we replace Ronaldo? That arguement i don't get, who could we replace him with that would have the same impact on the team in terms of goals and presence?

And Valencia had a damn good first season for us and started this one well until the injury.
 
Xander45 said:
How could we replace Ronaldo? That arguement i don't get, who could we replace him with that would have the same impact on the team in terms of goals and presence?
Click to expand...

Your right, it's nigh on impossible to replace him like for like, but we could have used the proceeds of the sale to address the midfield aswell as to sign some quality attacking players to make up for the loss of Tevez and Ronaldo. Basically, we should have done what Juventus did after they sold Zidane, make the team as a whole stronger.
 
cw1984 said:
There has been an obvious decline. It's not as bad as most make out, but denying there has been one is simply sticking your head in the sand.
Click to expand...

Well it is all relative I suppose - the 2008 squad is the best we have ever had and after Ronaldo left it was inevitable that there would be some negative impact. We did a lot better than all the transfer muppets thought last season and will do again this season.

There are no big problems in the squad - I have said for a while now that we are 1 top midfielder away from a great squad and I stand by that.
 
Of course we are in decline - we had our worst League season for 4 years last season finishing behind a team we'd been 7 points clear of the previous year, we had our worst Champions League campaign for 4 years, our worst FA Cup campaign for about 25 years. In anyone's books thats a decline, but that's not even the main reason one could say it. If we had won the League and reached a 3rd Champions League Final last season it would have papered over the cracks massively.

We are obviously weaker in a vast majority of positions since 2009, I would say Goalkeeper, the entire defence, the central midfield, and right wing are all significantly worse than they were, while only the left wing and one striker could really be described as stronger. The squad depth is also weaker, whereas in previous years we could put Ronaldo or Tevez upfront when Rooney is available, we are now reduced to Owen or Macheda. We are hugely reliant on Rooney, our season totally disintegrated when he was injured/out of form last season, and we've been shit this season when he's out of form as well. God knows what we are going to do if he leaves.
 
Rood said:
Well it is all relative I suppose - the 2008 squad is the best we have ever had and after Ronaldo left it was inevitable that there would be some negative impact. We did a lot better than all the transfer muppets thought last season and will do again this season.

There are no big problems in the squad - I have said for a while now that we are 1 top midfielder away from a great squad and I stand by that.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of that.
 
The Valencia injury has put pressure on us go exactly the same way that a similar injury to Ronaldo in 2007 would have done.

I really don't think we miss Tevez at all. Berbatov is playing as good if not better than Tevez ever did; we're missing Rooney though that's for sure.
 
WireRed said:
Your right, it's nigh on impossible to replace him like for like, but we could have used the proceeds of the sale to address the midfield aswell as to sign some quality attacking players to make up for the loss of Tevez and Ronaldo. Basically, we should have done what Juventus did after they sold Zidane, make the team as a whole stronger.
Click to expand...

Sadly it's not as easy as that. Who could have foresaw the loss of form of Carrick? The stall of Anderson/his long term injury? Hargreaves never healing?

I feel that the only position we needed to really invest in was a quality left winger. And i think we still do, centre midfield we just need a return of people to form and fitness. An in form Carrick would help us no end, and i thought he started to look like his old self against West Brom.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
The Valencia injury has put pressure on us go exactly the same way that a similar injury to Ronaldo in 2007 would have done.

I really don't think we miss Tevez at all. Berbatov is playing as good if not better than Tevez ever did; we're missing Rooney though that's for sure.
Click to expand...

That's a very sensible comment. If we had shed loads of quality waiting to take his place then maybe we could be blase about the whole affair...fact is on the evidence of the last few games we badly need our most talismanic figure back
 
Rood said:
Well it is all relative I suppose - the 2008 squad is the best we have ever had and after Ronaldo left it was inevitable that there would be some negative impact. We did a lot better than all the transfer muppets thought last season and will do again this season.

There are no big problems in the squad - I have said for a while now that we are 1 top midfielder away from a great squad and I stand by that.
Click to expand...

I disagree - I think SAF has a lot less options with this squad than he's had for a while. He's reliant on a 40 year old VdS - can't really afford for him to start showing signs of decline or leave him out if he does.

Injury to Valencia means we're reliant on Nani and Giggs - and Park and Obertan to an extent. A 37 year old Giggs and Nani, who is still not the finished article - that's the weakest pair of wingers United have had in a long time and certainly not the wingers of a championship winning side.

If Rooney leaves he'll be down to Berbatov and a very unconvincing supporting cast up front - a far cry from the riches he's been privileged to rotate up front for United over the last 15 years.

It certainly pales in comparison with Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney up front together so how on earth can you argue there's 'no decline'?

I'm not blaming Fergie but you've got to admit he has less resources to husband than he's had previously under his tenure.

I agree with Mike - there's real echoes of the early 2000's squads appearing.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I disagree - I think SAF has a lot less options with this squad than he's had for a while. He's reliant on a 40 year old VdS - can't really afford for him to start showing signs of decline or leave him out if he does.

Injury to Valencia means we're reliant on Nani and Giggs - and Park and Obertan to an extent. A 37 year old Giggs and Nani, who is still not the finished article - that's the weakest pair of wingers United have had in a long time and certainly not the wingers of a championship winning side.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? We started this season with Nani, Valencia, Giggs and Park as our four wingers. That's as good, if not better, than the wingers at any other club in the country and no worse than the wide men we've had in plenty of title-winning teams from the past. You seem to be massively under-rating Nani's form this calendar year. Have you any idea how productive he's been in 2010?

If Rooney leaves he'll be down to Berbatov and a very unconvincing supporting cast up front - a far cry from the riches he's been privileged to rotate up front for United over the last 15 years.

It certainly pales in comparison with Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney up front together so how on earth can you argue there's 'no decline'?

I'm not blaming Fergie but you've got to admit he has less resources to husband than he's had previously under his tenure.

I agree with Mike - there's real echoes of the early 2000's squads appearing.
Click to expand...

This is true, if Rooney isn't replaced.

If a world class replacement can be found, I wouldn't say selecting four strikers for next season from "new guy", Berbatov, Hernandez, Welbeck, Owen and Macheda will be a major source of concern for Fergie.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I disagree - I think SAF has a lot less options with this squad than he's had for a while. He's reliant on a 40 year old VdS - can't really afford for him to start showing signs of decline or leave him out if he does.

Injury to Valencia means we're reliant on Nani and Giggs - and Park and Obertan to an extent. A 37 year old Giggs and Nani, who is still not the finished article - that's the weakest pair of wingers United have had in a long time and certainly not the wingers of a championship winning side.

If Rooney leaves he'll be down to Berbatov and a very unconvincing supporting cast up front - a far cry from the riches he's been privileged to rotate up front for United over the last 15 years.

It certainly pales in comparison with Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney up front together so how on earth can you argue there's 'no decline'?

I'm not blaming Fergie but you've got to admit he has less resources to husband than he's had previously under his tenure.

I agree with Mike - there's real echoes of the early 2000's squads appearing.
Click to expand...

Im not worried about VDS - he is still playing well and when he retires he will be replaced.

I note that last season that many people were talking of Nani and Valencia as the best wing pairing in the league!
However, I agree that the Valencia injury is a big blow for us and leaves us a bit weak on the wing with Giggs out as well - Park can fill in but it looks like we will find out sooner than expected if Obertan/Bebe are upto the task.
However Nani is now delivering on a weekly basis so not sure why you are still doubting him.

If Rooney leaves then he will be replaced so along with Berba, Chicha, Owen, Macheda, Welbeck - we have more than enough options.

SO basically I dont agree with you at all.
 
Meh, its just another cycle we are going through. We'll be back. Some of you never learn writing Ferguson off.
 
Rood said:
Im not worried about VDS - he is still playing well and when he retires he will be replaced.

I note that last season that many people were talking of Nani and Valencia as the best wing pairing in the league!
However, I agree that the Valencia injury is a big blow for us and leaves us a bit weak on the wing with Giggs out as well - it looks like we will find out sooner than expect if Obertan/Bebe are upto the task.
However Nani is now delivering on a weekly basis so not sure why you are still doubting him.

If Rooney leaves then he will be replaced so along with Berba, Chicha, Owen, Macheda, Welbeck - we have more than enough options.

SO basically I dont agree with you at all.
Click to expand...

Are you serously putting your faith in Owen?
 
Rood said:
Im not worried about VDS - he is still playing well and when he retires he will be replaced.

I note that last season that many people were talking of Nani and Valencia as the best wing pairing in the league!
However, I agree that the Valencia injury is a big blow for us and leaves us a bit weak on the wing with Giggs out as well - Park can fill in but it looks like we will find out sooner than expected if Obertan/Bebe are upto the task.
However Nani is now delivering on a weekly basis so not sure why you are still doubting him.

If Rooney leaves then he will be replaced so along with Berba, Chicha, Owen, Macheda, Welbeck - we have more than enough options.SO

basically I dont agree with you at all.
Click to expand...

Of all those forwards you've put forward, only Berba and possibly Hernandez can be relied on to deliver the goods. Owen isn't good enough anymore, Welbeck seems to spend more time on the flanks than up top, and Macheda has never convinced me that he's going to be a regular here despite the hype and his immediate impact.

If Rooney goes we need two forwards of a high calibre IMO, one of them preferably with an ability to play wide in a 4-3-3 such as Pato.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Are you serious? We started this season with Nani, Valencia, Giggs and Park as our four wingers. That's as good, if not better, than the wingers at any other club in the country and no worse than the wide men we've had in plenty of title-winning teams from the past. You seem to be massively under-rating Nani's form this calendar year. Have you any idea how productive he's been in 2010?
Click to expand...

I don't agree. It's also misleading to just list Giggs in that list as if he can contribute as much as he did 10 years ago.

Following Valencia's injury Giggs will now play far more games than Ferguson would have liked him to this year and as such I'd imagine that the quality he's able to offer in those games will suffer as a result.

It says a lot about this squad that just one injury means we become further reliant on a 37 year old. I've no problem acknowledging Nani's vast improvement over the last 12 months but he's not the player I'd like to see us relying on as our main winger - I don't doubt he can become that but I wouldn't describe him as being a finished article yet.

I was responding to a post saying our squad hasn't declined at all since 2008. I think it clearly has and I think that following Valencia's injury we really are relying on a comparatively weak set of wingers in comparison with the riches previous squads have boasted.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Are you serously putting your faith in Owen?
Click to expand...

Owen was one of five strikers he named plus a likely replacement; that's hardly 'putting [his] faith in owen'; they'll be no more burden on Owen than there is today and he's doing a good job for us when called upon.

I don't know why any of this is relevant; does anyone actually believe these shit tabloid rumours about Rooney?
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Owen was one of five strikers he named plus a likely replacement; that's hardly 'putting [his] faith in owen'; they'll be no more burden on Owen than there is today and he's doing a good job for us when called upon.

I don't know why any of this is relevant; does anyone actually believe these shit tabloid rumours about Rooney?
Click to expand...


Maybe some do maybe some don't. The fact that enough people are willing to comment on a forum leads one to believe that people do believe "shit tabloid rumours" not to mention a few broadsheets,

You can't dispute that there is something not quite right with Rooney and Utd.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Owen was one of five strikers he named plus a likely replacement; that's hardly 'putting [his] faith in owen'; they'll be no more burden on Owen than there is today and he's doing a good job for us when called upon.

I don't know why any of this is relevant; does anyone actually believe these shit tabloid rumours about Rooney?
Click to expand...

Exactly Cider

Unfortunately the Rooney stuff seems to be a bit more than just tabloid rumours - however it doesnt mean he is out of the door just yet.
 
Rood said:
You are right - we should have Kaka as 4th choice and Benzema as 5th choice - only then will we possibly have enough options :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'd take them over Owen any day but hey you're the football expert, let's see if the almighty Michael Owen can set us on winning ways again
 
If Rooney goes, we'll never see Mourinho at United. I don't think Fergie will want to retire anywhere else but with United at the top and I don't see Mourinho waiting for Fergie for that long.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.