I'm calling it: DDG is the best we've ever had

Still Schmeichel.
But he is getting as good as VDS, if not already better.
 
Earthquake said:
Hard to compare across eras though, I'm interested though, how everyone thinks he compared to Neuer? Might be complete bias, but I think he's been better than him this season.
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I think that he has been slightly better than Neuer for two last seasons - but, as someone rightly said, it's very hard for a goalkeeper to overcome the reputation - for De Gea to be considered the best goalkeeper in the world (as in better than Neuer), the latter has to do a high-profile mistake or De Gea has to play on a completely different level than Neuer (which is pretty much impossible as Neuer is also almost flawless).

If we don't count form than it's Neuer + De Gea on the same level (De Gea has better shot-stopping skills, Neuer has his awesome sweeping and organizing skills on a different level to Dave) and then Courtouis, Navas, Bravo etc on the next step
 
harms said:
I think that he has been slightly better than Neuer for two last seasons - but, as someone rightly said, it's very hard for a goalkeeper to overcome the reputation - for De Gea to be considered the best goalkeeper in the world (as in better than Neuer), the latter has to do a high-profile mistake or De Gea has to play on a completely different level than Neuer (which is pretty much impossible as Neuer is also almost flawless).

If we don't count form than it's Neuer + De Gea on the same level (De Gea has better shot-stopping skills, Neuer has his awesome sweeping and organizing skills on a different level to Dave) and then Courtouis, Navas, Bravo etc on the next step
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Aye, Neuer has the odd clanger in him, but not really in big games. You get away with it when you loose like 2 games a season, heh.
 
Dans said:
And aged 26, it's quite possible he is no longer a United player.
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That actually seems very likely, especially now that LVG has turned United into a pile of rotting canine excrement. There's no reason at all now for Dave to remain at Old Trafford unless we sack LVG the day after the season end and we hire Jose to sort this shit out. Even then, it's probably time for him to leave.
 
Don't think he's even been that great this season, last night was as good it ever gets though. Last season he was having to pull these off every 2 weeks.
 
On the point about organizational skills, we really have to keep in mind the defenders and midfielders each keeper had/has to deal with.

Schmeichel had world class defenders and midfielders to organize, whereas De Gea has had defenders and midfielders who are so poor I doubt a single one of them would make into Arsenal's bench, let alone being anywhere near world class.

Schmeichel had Keane; De Gea has Carrick. Schmeichel had Stam; De Gea has Smalling. To state that the quality of the defenders each keeper had/has is not even close vastly understates the chasm between them.
 
Red_toad said:
Vidic, Rio, Evra & Rafael
Over Nev, Irwin, Pallister & Johnsen any day for me!

United had a far superior midfield, but let's not make out Blind & Rojo have been the only defenders De Gea has played behind!
We had a few donkeys back in the day, it wasn't all Stam, Nev, Irwin during Petes time.
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But no one is comparing the De Gea of 4 seasons ago to Schmeichel at his peak. Dave had great defenders that season but even then those three were hardly at their peak.

For the last three seasons De Gea has had to deal with makeshift backlines on a weekly basis. And we're not talking just about Blind and Rojo, who have done a decent job under the dire circumstances of serial injuries. Carrick, Young, Valencia, Jones, Bo-Jack...the list goes on and on with players who either aren't proper defenders or never will be. Shaw has genuine world class potential but last season he was a bit patchy and this season he had only had one month of outstanding form before he was cut down. Smalling had a good first half of the season but he's tailed off very badly over the last three months.

I don't recall Pete ever having to deal with anything like what Dave has had to deal with.
 
Question : If for midfielders, defenders and attackers we aren't convinced of them being the best until they've done it against the very best in high-pressure games on route to winning big trophies, then why doesn't the same apply to De Gea and keepers in general?

Good goalscoring records are always analyzed from the point of view of importance of games, "doing it in a CL semi final" or "importance in winning the league". The greatness of midfielders is often decided by their ability to dominate the biggest of games. So shouldn't de gea show more in title wins and CL wins and ties, to be the best in the world, or our best ever? I think all he has in this regard is 12/13 and we strolled to the title that season. Otherwise he's been a hero for a struggling team.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Question : If for midfielders, defenders and attackers we aren't convinced of them being the best until they've done it against the very best in high-pressure games on route to winning big trophies, then why doesn't the same apply to De Gea and keepers in general?

Good goalscoring records are always analyzed from the point of view of importance of games, "doing it in a CL semi final" or "importance in winning the league". The greatness of midfielders is often decided by their ability to dominate the biggest of games. So shouldn't de gea show more in title wins and CL wins and ties, to be the best in the world, or our best ever? I think all he has in this regard is 12/13 and we strolled to the title that season. Otherwise he's been a hero for a struggling team.
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It's probably to do with the fact that while keepers can prevent you loosing games, they can't exactly put other teams to the sword.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Question : If for midfielders, defenders and attackers we aren't convinced of them being the best until they've done it against the very best in high-pressure games on route to winning big trophies, then why doesn't the same apply to De Gea and keepers in general?

Good goalscoring records are always analyzed from the point of view of importance of games, "doing it in a CL semi final" or "importance in winning the league". The greatness of midfielders is often decided by their ability to dominate the biggest of games. So shouldn't de gea show more in title wins and CL wins and ties, to be the best in the world, or our best ever? I think all he has in this regard is 12/13 and we strolled to the title that season. Otherwise he's been a hero for a struggling team.
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The side is poor and that is why he cant show it on biggest stages, but look at his performances in big games: RM in Fergie's last year- 1st leg I think MOTM, vs Bayern-excellent, arsenal, Pool- MOTM, Chelsea(1-1 last season)- Great. You wont find errors in his big games and that's all he can show with our side
 
anant said:
The side is poor and that is why he cant show it on biggest stages, but look at his performances in big games: RM in Fergie's last year- 1st leg I think MOTM, vs Bayern-excellent, arsenal, Pool- MOTM, Chelsea(1-1 last season)- Great. You wont find errors in his big games and that's all he can show with our side
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Could a Suarez really be the best in the world while playing great against top 4 sides whilst chasing 4th place, and quarter finals of CLs, and without producing plenty of big trophy winning performances and the big games on the way to them? Everyone would say he needs to do it at a bigger team like Barcelona or Madrid.

Have to clarify that I do think de gea is one of the best. He obviously is.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Could a Suarez really be the best in the world while playing great against top 4 sides whilst chasing 4th place, and quarter finals of CLs, and without producing plenty of big trophy winning performances and the big games on the way to them? Everyone would say he needs to do it at a bigger team like Barcelona or Madrid.

Have to clarify that I do think de gea is one of the best. He obviously is.
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I do agree with what you said, just replied to someone's post that said he hasn't won the UCL and more leagues than Schmeichel which prevent him from being our best GK
 
Spock said:
But no one is comparing the De Gea of 4 seasons ago to Schmeichel at his peak. Dave had great defenders that season but even then those three were hardly at their peak.

For the last three seasons De Gea has had to deal with makeshift backlines on a weekly basis. And we're not talking just about Blind and Rojo, who have done a decent job under the dire circumstances of serial injuries. Carrick, Young, Valencia, Jones, Bo-Jack...the list goes on and on with players who either aren't proper defenders or never will be. Shaw has genuine world class potential but last season he was a bit patchy and this season he had only had one month of outstanding form before he was cut down. Smalling had a good first half of the season but he's tailed off very badly over the last three months.

I don't recall Pete ever having to deal with anything like what Dave has had to deal with.
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i wasn't comparing the 2's defenses, simply responding to a point of view, that kinda made out Pete played behind great defenders.
Personally I see no part of De Gea's play, aside he's slightly more comfortable with the ball at his feet, that is better than Schmikes. Big Pete commanded his area better, a vastly greater presence, better on crosses, just as agile & superb reflexes. As I've said previously I believe Neuer to be better.
Our current team would most likely be a better team with young Schmikes in it, he was a genuine leader, I do not see that trait in De Gea, our side badly lacks leaders. I don't see De Gea improving the Uniteds of the 90's.
 
Big Pete was the best in my lifetime

Verbal command of his box, plucking balls out of the air one handed, those long throws more accurate than long passes, flicking balls over the heads of incoming strikers before calmly volleying it away, improbable saves and scored goals! Seriously go and watch the DVDs again and tell me ddg is better.

Ddg is great but schmeichel was a god
 
Red_toad said:
i wasn't comparing the 2's defenses, simply responding to a point of view, that kinda made out Pete played behind great defenders.
Personally I see no part of De Gea's play, aside he's slightly more comfortable with the ball at his feet, that is better than Schmikes. Big Pete commanded his area better, a vastly greater presence, better on crosses, just as agile & superb reflexes. As I've said previously I believe Neuer to be better.
Our current team would most likely be a better team with young Schmikes in it, he was a genuine leader, I do not see that trait in De Gea, our side badly lacks leaders. I don't see De Gea improving the Uniteds of the 90's.
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We start with agreement that Schmeichel was fantastic, one of the great keepers of all time. Anyone who questions that is not credible.

But I think we also have to agree that Pete had much better defenders and midfielders to work with than De Gea ever has. Rio and Vidic were well past their prime in De Gea's first season and Dave has never had a midfield that came close to Pete's midfield. That really does matter when it comes to organizing your defenders. Keane and Pallister are United legends and Stam is arguably the greatest defender United ever had. Pete organized them well but these three were among the greatest footballers in their roles of their generation. Dave has almost literally had no one of note to organize, certainly at least after that rocky first season.

On a point by point basis, let's absolutely grant that Schmeichel organized his defenders better than De Gea has. And I'll grant that Pete handled crosses better than De Gea, let's even say by a mile. But after that it's De Gea on every count.

Shot stopping. De Gea, easily.
Distribution. De Gea, easily.

And then there's the two last points, which tip it to De Gea. We're evaluating De Gea on the basis of his play in his early 20s to Schmeichel's play in his late 20s. We're still 3-4 years away from seeing Pete's best play and yet De Gea has already earned a conversation with Pete's peak play, however one comes down on it. And De Gea has had to deal with sides that are vastly inferior sides to the sides Schmeichel played with in the late 1990s. I can't even imagine the decimation the 98/99 side would put this side to, yet one can easily imagine that De Gea would keep the final score somewhat respectable.
 
Are there any stats out there about how he deals with penalties compared to the other two? Impression is that VDS is the best of the three there but likely only because he had some very high profile shoot-outs.
 
golden_blunder said:
@Spock distrubution, really?

Nothing is more accurate than a schmeichel throw
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There's is...De Gea's passing.

We're comparing a keeper at peak form -- Schmeichel between the ages of 30-35 -- and a keeper in the first third of his professional career -- De Gea between the ages of 20-25. I'd really like to see footage of Schmeichel at 23 or 25 years old before he came to United when he was 28. There isn't a snowball's chance that Pete was the keeper at 25 that De Gea is now.
 
Red_toad said:
i wasn't comparing the 2's defenses, simply responding to a point of view, that kinda made out Pete played behind great defenders.
Personally I see no part of De Gea's play, aside he's slightly more comfortable with the ball at his feet, that is better than Schmikes. Big Pete commanded his area better, a vastly greater presence, better on crosses, just as agile & superb reflexes. As I've said previously I believe Neuer to be better.
Our current team would most likely be a better team with young Schmikes in it, he was a genuine leader, I do not see that trait in De Gea, our side badly lacks leaders. I don't see De Gea improving the Uniteds of the 90's.
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I agree that Pete was better overall, but I think DDG shot stopping reflexes are a level above Pete. I'd still choose Schmikes overall though.
 
Spock said:
There's is...De Gea's passing.

We're comparing a keeper at peak form -- Schmeichel between the ages of 30-35 -- and a keeper in the first third of his professional career -- De Gea between the ages of 20-25. I'd really like to see footage of Schmeichel at 23 or 25 years old before he came to United when he was 28. There isn't a snowball's chance that Pete was the keeper at 25 that De Gea is now.
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My biggest concern with DDG is that the majority of his strength are actually due to his age. He reminds me a lot of a young Casillas in terms of shot stopping, reflexes etc. Personally, I think he is going to follow a similar career path when it comes to his eventual decline at a not so old age for a keeper.
 
Spock said:
There's is...De Gea's passing.

We're comparing a keeper at peak form -- Schmeichel between the ages of 30-35 -- and a keeper in the first third of his professional career -- De Gea between the ages of 20-25. I'd really like to see footage of Schmeichel at 23 or 25 years old before he came to United when he was 28. There isn't a snowball's chance that Pete was the keeper at 25 that De Gea is now.
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Sorry why are we comparing at the age? Schmeichel didn't join us until he was 26. The OP states that ddg is the best that ever played for us, not who was better at whatever age
 
I'm not sure why people are bringing up lineups to discredit VDS and Schmeichel. If both of those played in this squad they would do just as well as DDG.

It's not like a striker, where you getting poor service. Both Schmeichel and VDS are capable of pulling off world class saves. They didn't have to do it as much as DDG, but that isn't really their fault.
 
In their time Schmeichel, Casillas, Buffon and VdS could easily take the captain's armband and lead their defense towards bigger focus.

I would love Maureen to test De Gea as future captain. He already is a pillar, he may be as well a vital inspiration for every player on the field.
 
Red_toad said:
Big Pete by far the best keeper United have ever had. Excellent shot stopping, a real leader & organiser. Also scared the shite of opposing player in those 1 on 1's.
De Gea isn't as good, though he is an excellent keeper in his own right.

Big Pete would improve our defence with his ability to communicate with his back 4. De Gea lacks in the area.
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I think DDG is excellent his shot stopping is absolutely superb, and he has plenty of time to work on those aspects of his game that he needs to build on, I imagine a much more tightly contested debate at the end of DDG's career.
 
De Gea's lightning reaction saves combined with Schmeikel's beastly organizational presence combined with Gary Bailey's academic qualifications combined with Ewin van der Saar's calming nose combined with the decency of Jim Leighton's parents combined with Fabian Barthez's willingness to go back to France is the best ever United goalkeeper.
 
I think's he's our best ever, it is hard though, as the other candidates had massive success but probably less to do to. We just have to hope he stays, he truly is world class.
 
For those who think he still hasn't surpassed the VDSes and the Schmeichels, wait till he's gone to Madrid, and single-handedly starts winning them cup finals and derbies.
Even the Neuer arguments will stop. He is simply the very best.
 
For me it is:
1. Pete
2. DDG
3. VDS

Damn we've been extremely lucky with world class keepers. What other teams have had 3 so close together? Chelsea (Cech/Curtois) and Bayern (Neure/Kahn) at 2.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
For those who think he still hasn't surpassed the VDSes and the Schmeichels, wait till he's gone to Madrid, and single-handedly starts winning them cup finals and derbies.
Even the Neuer arguments will stop. He is simply the very best.
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Schmikes was up there with the best ever, to suggest DDG is already there is ridiculous. He may surpass and become the best ever, but he's not there yet. Schmikes at his peak vs DDG now, I'd take Schmikes all day long.
 
Still Schmeichel for me and by quite a long way.
Schmeichel is the best keeper I have seen and it will take something special to get ahead of him.
DDG is not there, he will get there sadly I suspect he will not be in our team when he is in his prime.
 
senorgregster said:
For me it is:
1. Pete
2. DDG
3. VDS

Damn we've been extremely lucky with world class keepers. What other teams have had 3 so close together? Chelsea (Cech/Curtois) and Bayern (Neure/Kahn) at 2.
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Bayern is fairly similar to us - it's hard to decide which one was the better keeper out of Maier, Kahn and Neuer
 
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