If United had played to their fullest potential this season, what should we have achieved?

What's potential?

We all seems to think that Rashford is a highly potential player, so does Ravel, greenwood, Laird, etc etc.

Maybe they're just not that good to start with, and maybe we're just biased as fans to think our player is the next real deal. The last time someone we thought has potential and actually fulfiling it to the fullest was Ronaldo. Hell we even thought Fletcher is a crock. We're a collective shit at judging potential.
 
Was this when Ole was in charge? All I remember about his time here us getting slapped every week by elite teams like City, Liverpool and Watford. Don't quite remember when anything was "all there for us" this season?

Under Rangnick. We were 4th, a few points off third while Chelsea were at the World Cup. Of we had won against the likes of Villa, Watford, Saints, Burnley around that time instead of drawing we’d have been comfortably 3rd by the time Chelsea kicked a ball again.
 
Sure, but that's without taking into account the fact that they have to keep focusing on latter stage of CL and the league fixture at the same time.

And they finish higher than us this season too, didn't they?

We can't just assume we played to our fullest potential while other teams don't. Has to be on fair ground.

It isn’t taking it into account because it isn’t something to be taken into account. Strong teams expect to be active on both fronts. If you cannot, then you are just a cup side, of which there have been many. And we’ve also been in the latter stages of the Europa League during this spell.

And I said before this current season. This will be the first time they finish ahead of us since Conte left. Given that we are all playing in the same league, that cannot be dismissed as irrelevant because they have done well in cup competitions. People have been too easily talking of them as a better side during a period where we finished ahead of them 3 seasons straight.
 
When you see how good City and Liverpool are, I'd have to say no more than 3rd in the league. We certainly have way more to give, but we do have limitations in our squad even if every gave their maximum. Definitely could have had a cup run, no reason we couldn't have won one of those. I feel like quarter finals of the champions would be our highest ceiling unless very lucky in the draw.
 
We will never know how it would have went without signing Ronaldo. Started with a thrilling 5-1 victory. We didn't score 5 goals again all season. 7 points in the first 3 games. I was excited. By the 4-2 defeat to Leicester, I knew it was going to be a tough season.
 
We should have comfortably finished 3rd. It was all there for us in January, then we just couldn’t win a game, and then injuries and loss of confidence/belief set in.
Don't forget the Greenwood thing which was a big part. Losing essentially the equivalent of a 100m asset (and our main future attack plan) and given Rashfords struggles on the left, losing him as a wide forward on the right was pretty big.
 
It isn’t taking it into account because it isn’t something to be taken into account. Strong teams expect to be active on both fronts. If you cannot, then you are just a cup side, of which there have been many. And we’ve also been in the latter stages of the Europa League during this spell.

And I said before this current season. This will be the first time they finish ahead of us since Conte left. Given that we are all playing in the same league, that cannot be dismissed as irrelevant because they have done well in cup competitions. People have been too easily talking of them as a better side during a period where we finished ahead of them 3 seasons straight.
They are better side than us when they are playing in their fullest potential, their CL trophy is the proof of that. We are no way near to that level in the past many years or whatsoever.

We managed to finish higher than them in the league last seasons because we are happened to be more consistent than them in the league over the season.

But when the question is about playing in fullest potential", consistency factor shouldn't be regarded, otherwise its not by definition the "fullest potential".
 
They are better side than us when they are playing in their fullest potential, their CL trophy is the proof of that. We are no way near to that level in the past many years or whatsoever.

We managed to finish higher than them in the league last seasons because we are happened to be more consistent than them in the league over the season.

But when the question is about playing in fullest potential", consistency factor shouldn't be regarded, otherwise its not by definition the "fullest potential".

I respectfully disagree. In the same period, we’ve gone to the Etihad and played City off the park for example, more than once. I can put that as our ‘fullest potential’ and say that is better than Chelsea. It doesn’t work like that. If Chelsea, over a three year period, cannot better us in the same league, it is a massive stretch to say they are the better side. Even head to head they have struggled against us. Ole beat them like 4 times in a year, and even in this poor season they have failed to beat us twice.

Cup form is no measure of anything. At our ‘full potential’ we can beat City or Madrid in a one-off game too, which is what they did to win it.
 
4th.

This current squad is not good enough to challenge the league. Best they can do is challenging top 4. We saw what happened last season when there was glimps of challenging the league when Liverpool slipped, they couldn't handle the pressure to play consistently. As a result, City managed to take advantage of it. This season is the same, Varane and Ronaldo joined, another pressure to challenge the league and those same players from last season still couldn't handle it again.
 
Liverpool and city are playing a different sport at this stage. We are the 3rd/4th best team on paper but we were bottom of the league for work rate for far too much of the season. Just the manifestation of doing everything possible wrong with the kind of money we’ve been spending. This isn’t the first time some of these lads have stopped playing either. Stopped for Jose, Ole and Ralf. They are losers paid as if they are the best. No pride. They clearly don’t care about the fans or the club. It’s their little boys fashion and social media club.
 
In retrospective its easy to say 3rd or 4th, but go back to last august when Varane, Sancho and Cristiano were confirmed it seemed like a perfect summer. I expected us to actually challenge for the league, maybe not win it but to be around 85-90 points.

What a mess this turned out to be.
 
Probably 4th and we’d have probably binned off Solskjaer by the end of it if we were trophyless.
 
Assuming nothing mental/motivational comes into play we signed 3 top players and should have really kicked on. I’d say at peak we’d be fighting for 3rd but not in the top 2.
 
This team, the manager, and the surrounding footballing organisation were fundamentally flawed. It took the wheels coming off the wagon for this to be fully exposed which, with the subsequent suffering involved, ensured changes were made (or at least attempted, even superficially).

We have the semblance of a modern structure in place, with excellent footballing people seemingly being added (Paul Mitchell would be ideal for recruitment) and we have the most exciting 'young' manager in Europe joining in the summer, bringing with him a coaching staff and a footballing philosophy that, if not matching, at least attempts to mirror what Klopp and Pep are implementing. Our team is barely playing the same sport as Man City and Liverpool atm; Ten Hag will demand we make the attempt.

Ole, for all his positives and qualities as a person, would never have helped us close the gap. But if he, and the team, had 'played to their fullest potential this season' we would've easily secured 4th, potentially overtaking Chelsea in the process, while remaining comfortably adrift of the top 2. And comfortably adrift of the top 2 is where we would've stayed season after season. I don't think there's a single United fan who would be happy with that but the Glazers sure as shit would be. The security of Champions League football without any of the discomfort of the transformation needed to actually win the thing? The Glazer dream. It took the pain and misery of the implosion we've experienced this season, politely but unintentionally exacerbated by Ralf's inability (or refusal) to adapt to the players, to force their hand and to allow control of the club to move towards people who have football, rather than commercialism, as their primary focus.

The squad has also been exposed as not good enough, seemingly even from the perspective of caring, and Ten Hag will come in with a clean slate to do whatever he pleases, in terms of selection and transfers, without any rumbling of supporter opposition. Every single fan is ready for a comprehensive rebuild and they're happy for the manager to sacrifice whoever he wants to achieve that. We've hit rock bottom so many times performance wise this season that the term has lost its meaning. There's no curtain of PR and spin the squad can hide behind anymore because they've squandered all credibility. Ralf has, without meaning to, absorbed all the negativity and petulance the more troubled players were drumming up. I think with the benefit of hindsight he'll act as a sacrificial lamb to Ten Hag. If by December next season the team still can't press and there's press leaks of 'incompetent coaching' or 'an inability to transfer from the Eredivisie to the Premier League' emerging, who in their right mind is going to actually blame Ten Hag?

This doesn't excuse Ralf's tenure, as he has failed and proven wholly ineffective as a manager, but he clearly remains an expert on how a club should be run and what a modern team looks like. The 6 months in charge will have given him an understanding of the team that should prove invaluable in its rebuild and he'll be a brilliant confidant to Ten Hag on why/how/what/who/when etc. it went wrong; this can only increase the chances that Ten Hag gets it right.

This is probably an optimistic interpretation of events as it was most likely PR and 'saving face' that drove the organisational shift, and some of the players are still going to be whinging idiots whoever is managing them, but the motivations underlying these changes are almost trivial; we're moving in the direction of success for the first time since Ferguson retired and it wouldn't have happened without monumentally failing.
 
It's like some still don't understand the whole individual brilliance point. We were playing way beyond the talents and coaching structure of this team. That is not the baseline to use as our potential at all.

Most of the issues we've faced have been inevitable. Where would we have finished last season with Rashford done, no Greenwood, no Cavani and Bruno no longer in world class form?

A team excelling in a countering setup due to the excellence of one or two individuals losing it's counter threat is always doomed.

If we'd have brought in a decent manager last summer and had the same signings i think a top 4 fight would still be the level. This lot can play better with a proper system but not overnight. Average form top 4 fight, excellent form from a few top 2.
 
Our squad has some glaring weaknesses, but I think it is probably marginally better than Arsenal's or Tottenham's.

A 4th place finish would have been about right and in August last year, 4th is where I thought we'd end up.

I'd forget about top 4 next season (or any silverware). The club needs to focus on the rebuild and Ten Hag's goals should be based on that, rather than on a minimum league position.
 
With the addition of Sancho and 2 x Galactico class players (Varane, Ronaldo), I'd expect a title challenge.
Remember, we finished 2nd place last year (after LFC stuttered), so this year, with the addition of 3 key players, there is no reason why would not be challenging for 1st place.
 
3rd at best, but most likely 4th. We'd be nowhere near the top 2 no matter what we did or how much effort the players put in
 
3rd. Usually I’d say we could challenge, but Liverpool’s first choice midfield 3 is some next level stuff which doesn’t get the appreciation it deserves. That said they still won the CL and challenged for EPL when it was Henderson, Milner and Wjnaldon
 
Different manager and having signed a DM, a left-footed center back since Varane looked out of position in a new role and a decent RB and we could have maybe snuck 3rd because Chelsea had an off-year and Spurs were bad until Conte came and Arsenal are still rebuilding.

------------------Cristiano------
----------Bruno-----------------------------------Sancho
-------------Fred---------Pogba-------------
Shaw----------------DM-------------------------
------------LCB----------Varane----------RB
--------------------De Gea--------------------

Might have been okay. We needed Pogba to have a big season and Maguire the same, but I think only Pogba had it in him really this year in theory, though obviously not in real life. Weird thread.
 
The thread title is a great question, I’ve posted this before in another thread but from the players we had last season, adding in Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane it was only ever going to go one of two ways. As soon as we got played off the pitch by Southampton and Wolves the dye was cast really. You can’t have them players on top of what we had and be a worse team than Southampton and Wolves.

The players needed a system to fulfill their potential. A fully developed system then its impossible to tell what this team could’ve achieved but it’s too late now, it’s gone way too far.
 
Comfortable 3rd in the league at the very least and a longer run in the FA Cup at least.

We've thrown away so many stupid points this season its beyond a joke.
 
IF we had played the cowardly 4-2-3-1 counter-attack we had played under Solskjaer for the last two a bit seasons we would have finished a very comfortable 3rd.

The trouble was, that was never going to win us enough points to seriously threaten Liverpool or City. We did need to move on and try to play a more progressive or aggressive style of football, but it was so poorly implemented that we ended up completely bombing.

By the time Ralf came in, it was too late to try and reinvent the wheel in the middle of the season. I love Ralf, but part of me thinks we should have stuck with Carrick and Ole's 4-2-3-1 until the end of season, scraped into 4th and gone from there.

Still, that being said, with Woodward and Judge gone, plus Bout and Lawlor, I really do think there's finally the appetite for the real structural change we have all called for
 
Probably 4th although we could have been competitive with Chelsea for 3rd. I'm not sure much could be based on finishing 2nd last season, continually falling behind away from home and coming back was bound to be a lot harder with crowds back but our performances overall have dropped significantly.

We've shot ourselves in the foot by having 2 massively subpar managers but also by not having a midfield or full backs that are within a million miles of the top 3 which meant it was probably only doable by sticking to the counter-attacking from the last couple of years and then our attacking options, which looked pretty deep at the start of the season, have becoming massively limited as the season has progressed.
 
I think fighting for 3rd, but Chelsea have been so far behind the top 2 yet far ahead of the chasing pack I dont think we would have got it. We have been ahead of them the last two years people say, but they have a good manager and several of there bigger signings have settled much more this season individually and as a team.

I think we would have finished fourth, "potentially" the forward line could have been really good, the defence average, but our midfield is the weak point
 
I respectfully disagree. In the same period, we’ve gone to the Etihad and played City off the park for example, more than once. I can put that as our ‘fullest potential’ and say that is better than Chelsea. It doesn’t work like that. If Chelsea, over a three year period, cannot better us in the same league, it is a massive stretch to say they are the better side. Even head to head they have struggled against us. Ole beat them like 4 times in a year, and even in this poor season they have failed to beat us twice.

Cup form is no measure of anything. At our ‘full potential’ we can beat City or Madrid in a one-off game too, which is what they did to win it.
Pure delusion. We have never even come close to the football Chelsea played in 2021. They were excellent this season too until they lost James and Chilwell and had the Lukaku fiasco.

Comparing over a three year period also doesn't make sense because they are a totally different team since Tuchel joined. They've gone toe to toe with the biggest teams in the world and not looked out of place. They are comfortably better than any version of us.
 
Pure delusion. We have never even come close to the football Chelsea played in 2021. They were excellent this season too until they lost James and Chilwell and had the Lukaku fiasco.

Comparing over a three year period also doesn't make sense because they are a totally different team since Tuchel joined. They've gone toe to toe with the biggest teams in the world and not looked out of place. They are comfortably better than any version of us.

How can I be delusional when referencing the league tables? So I’m the deluded one, but the person interpreting the table differently is of course applying the most logical approach?

I can compare the last 3 years if I want, as it’s the basis pf my point. The coverage has not at all suggested that Chelsea were an inferior team to us, whereas the league table shows they have been. They are better this season, but clearly not so good that they can challenge for the league themselves, and they were far closer to being dragged into a top 4 fight with us than a title one. You have simply fallen for the same media spin and BS. The league speaks for itself. They have finally finished above us now for the first time in 4 years, yet have been part of some sort of ‘big 3’ in that period, while we are the worst team in England.
 
Would be interesting to see what the people who're predicting 3rd/4th predicted at the start of the season. I'm pretty sure there were loads of voices discussing about competing for the title back then.
 
3rd.

Really no excuse for a team packed with this talent.

But we were never a team this season. Not under Ole and definitely not under Rangnick.
 
74 points is the full potential and as best as it gets, maybe that would have been enough to get 3rd place but no way you were placing ahead of Manchester City or Liverpool, the team was already playing like crap last season so that's why I think that was as good as it could get.
 
Players replicating their best seasons, we'd be above Chelsea for sure. Who knows, we might have won a game or two vs one of the top two even. Pre season I expected a fight for 1st/2nd. Massive disappointment this group of players this season
 
4th. The match against Chelsea clearly showed they have much more quality in the team; their players have better technical skills compared with most of our players.
 
3rd a point of two off the top 2 and behind of GD. If everyone who were here at start of season would have filled their potential.
 
3rd a point of two off the top 2 and behind of GD. If everyone who were here at start of season would have filled their potential.
Not a hope. We surely could and maybe would of got 3rd but no way would we be near the top 2. We would of been close to what Chelsea are and they are 17 points off the top
 
Not a hope. We surely could and maybe would of got 3rd but no way would we be near the top 2. We would of been close to what Chelsea are and they are 17 points off the top
In an alternate universe, if all Martial, Donny and Greenwood would have stayed and been fit and done at least 80% of their expected potential, it wouldn't have been such a leap.