If ten Hag was sacked tonight, who would you have as an interim?

[Andycoleno9]

Im sure you both love Jose and hate Ole with passion, no wonder you keep making excuses for whatever little Ole has achieved.

Wrong. I rate Jose. And i don't rate Ole. Hate is strong word there.

I wonder; you support Man Utd. You had pleasure to watch best manager in history. Also last ten years you watch how other top managers do great job in other clubs. So you know what top manager can do.
So, how come you can say that former Molde and Cardiff manager was right for this job? And not see during his tenure how limited he was? I don't get that.

 

[roonster09]

It's honestly not my fault your understanding of really basic English isn't great mate. What I said was very obvious? I've then went to the bother of clarifying it for you. Yet, here we are...

I've tried to deesculate this a-few times now, but your hostility is bordering on weird tbh. I'm still not sure what your issue is but happy to clarify anything further.

FFS

Where is the hostility, so I have to cry that you are hostile because you posted "Strawman" in couple of posts?

 

[roonster09]

Wrong. I rate Jose. And i don't rate Ole. Hate is strong word there.

I wonder; you support Man Utd. You had pleasure to watch best manager in history. Also last ten years you watch how other top managers do great job in other clubs. So you know what top manager can do.
So, how come you can say that former Molde and Cardiff manager was right for this job? And not see during his tenure how limited he was? I don't get that.

Let me ask you this,

you support ManUtd and watched glorious years for 10-15 years where finishing 2nd was a failure (even by a point or GD) and league cup was seen as a tin pot cup, so much that we always used to play very young and fringe players. Playing in Europa was seen as punishment for not being good.

So how come you rated and supported manager who finished 6th, 2nd with a 18 point gap against first placed team and then was fighting with Bournemouth.

I really don't get that. Without bringing Ole into this, I would like to see genuine answer for this.

 

[Robbie Boy]

FFS

Where is the hostility, so I have to cry that you are hostile because you posted "Strawman" in couple of posts?

Well yeah, the strawman that I said a poster said that Ole shouldn't have been sacked...

When, what I actually done was called out the absurdity of the rationale behind fans who wanted Ole sacked "getting it horribly wrong" because ETH is shite. By that utterly ridiculous rationale, no manager should ever be sacked because the next man might do worse. I mean, that's as clear as I can be.

I'm going to level with you: If you don't have the awareness to see how hostile you've been during this exchange, then wow. That's actually worrying mate. I'm not going to reply further. You are just arguing with yourself at this point and I have no idea what about...

 

[Leftback99]

Did @Leftback99 argue Ole shouldn't have been sacked?

Nope, not in 2021-22.

The idea that I think Ole is great is from when I correctly defended him before his 2020 turnaround (the spell where he had to work with a forward line of James, Pereira and Lingard).

When he was sacked I still predicted we'd do no better without better recruitment. And here we are...

 

[Robbie Boy]

Nope, not in 2021-22.

The idea that I think Ole is great is from when I correctly defended him before his 2020 turnaround (the spell where he had to work with a forward line of James, Pereira and Lingard).

Ole done a decent job at one point, as did Jose as did ETH. Holistically, all their tenures were failures.

 

[roonster09]

Well yeah, the strawman that I said a poster said that Ole shouldn't have been sacked...

When, what I actually done was called out the absurdity of the rationale behind fans who wanted Ole sacked "getting it horribly wrong" because ETH is shite. By that utterly ridiculous rationale, no manager should ever be sacked because the next man might do worse. I mean, that's as clear as I can be.

I'm going to level with you: If you don't have the awareness to see how hostile you've been during this exchange, then wow. That's actually worrying mate. I'm not going to reply further. You are just arguing with yourself at this point and I have no idea what about...

So I asked you for a clarification that if @Leftback99 said Ole shouldn't be sacked and you called that strawman, then again called strawman and then questioned my comprehension skills but I'm the hostile one and you are the victim.

And then you have the balls or lack of brain to talk about awareness. fecking hell.

Edit: Also I didn't say you said it, I asked whether @Leftback99 said it. There is a difference and you are the one to talk about comprehension skills.

Did @Leftback99 argue Ole shouldn't have been sacked?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Lvg was best post Fergie manager who we had. Tactically wise.
Jose had most success.
Moyes was out of depth.
Erik had solid first season and ruined that in second season.
Ole was Championship quality manager who got the job because of his legendary status. And was utter failure.

Everything else empty talk.

 

[roonster09]

Lvg was best post Fergie manager who we had. Tactically wise.
Jose had most success.
Moyes was out of depth.
Erik had solid first season and ruined that in second season.
Ole was Championship quality manager who got the job because of his legendary status. And was utter failure.

Everything else empty talk.

So all big talk and then chickened out?

 

[VP89]

Maybe learn to read first.

Ah *at*
You still talked bollocks though. Tell me more about how that's punching at our weight.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Let me ask you this,

you support ManUtd and watched glorious years for 10-15 years where finishing 2nd was a failure (even by a point or GD) and league cup was seen as a tin pot cup, so much that we always used to play very young and fringe players. Playing in Europa was seen as punishment for not being good.

So how come you rated and supported manager who finished 6th, 2nd with a 18 point gap against first placed team and then was fighting with Bournemouth.

I really don't get that. Without bringing Ole into this, I would like to see genuine answer for this.

For me, trophy is a trophy. Of course that CL and PL are above others but every trophy counts. Why is Man Utd one of two biggest clubs in England ? Why is Real biggest club in the world? Because of number of trophies. Simple as that. So how to not rate someone who won everything and everywhere?

Jose won stuff with us. That first season was by far best season which we had in last 10 years. EL trophy was only trophy which we didn't had so it was achievement on its own. Plus LC and charity cup.
Hate which he gets is astonishing.

Now give me answer by what merits Ole deserved this job?

 

[VP89]

So at least you agree that season on season teams change? So you can't just compare ppg across seasons?

It wasn't me that began comparing tenures across seasons. But if you're going to do it, ppg is the objective first place to start than shots conceded

Now to the next point, are you really arguing that injuries to couple of players is the reason why we can't string 2 passes together or can't stop teams having 20+ shots in every game?

No - go back and look at what I've debated. You keep getting rattled by small points within an overarching argument, and forget what is being debated.

Did concentrated injuries hamper our season - yes.
Is it the sole excuse for us playing this poorly - no.
Would we have fared better if we didnt have so many injuries concentrated in defence - yes.
Does the injuries alone absolve Ten Hag - no.
Is Ten Hag better than Ole - yes.

Here are my views. Just to be clear.

 

[roonster09]

For me, trophy is a trophy. Of course that CL and PL are above others but every trophy counts. Why is Man Utd one of two biggest clubs in England ? Why is Real biggest club in the world? Because of number of trophies. Simple as that. So how to not rate someone who won everything and everywhere?

Jose won stuff with us. That first season was by far best season which we had in last 10 years. EL trophy was only trophy which we didn't had so it was achievement on its own. Plus LC and charity cup.
Hate which he gets is astonishing.

Maybe you didn't understand the question, let me ask again with relevant bits highlighted. From 2nd as a failure to rating, supporting manager who finished 6th and was fighting with Bournemouth in 6th or 7th position. After watching glorious SAF years where only first was considered as success and second as failure, how did you let your standards slip so low that you supported manager who finished 6th .

Also ManUtd is one of the two biggest clubs with Liverpool and Real Madrid are the biggest club in the world because of league title and champions league title, not league cup or Kings cup.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Wow, roonster got wound up eh?

That hard just to say Ole was shite along with the rest of them.
What a bizarre bunch our fans are that seem so desperate for “their man” to be a little bit less shit than another failed manager.

 

[Livvie]

Wrong. I rate Jose. And i don't rate Ole. Hate is strong word there.

I wonder; you support Man Utd. You had pleasure to watch best manager in history. Also last ten years you watch how other top managers do great job in other clubs. So you know what top manager can do.
So, how come you can say that former Molde and Cardiff manager was right for this job? And not see during his tenure how limited he was? I don't get that.

I wonder if things would have been different if Fergie had supported bringing Jose to the club right at the beginning. Being 3rd choice probably rankled. I think he would have jumped at it in the beginning. By the time he did come, the 'damage' was done and it was more of an uphill climb. If he'd followed Fergie, we might have seen the old Jose, and not the dour shadow of what he was. As it turned out, his results weren't bad, but the style of play was boring as feck. Ole's tenure exploded in his latter games, but surely no-one can deny that overall, we were more entertaining and more Fergie like with OGS. He seems especially good (as does Jose) now, because nothing has been as bad as this season, and regardless of winning a trophy last season, we weren't that great then either - grinding out results and rarely showing any dominance. This season, though, takes the biscuit for consistent dross. It's been a shambles from day one.

 

[roonster09]

It wasn't me that began comparing tenures across seasons. But if you're going to do it, ppg is the objective first place to start than shots conceded
\\
No - go back and look at what I've debated. You keep getting rattled by small points within an overarching argument, and forget what is being debated.

Did concentrated injuries hamper our season - yes.
Is it the sole excuse for us playing this poorly - no.
Would we have fared better if we didnt have so many injuries concentrated in defence - yes.
Does the injuries alone absolve Ten Hag - no.
Is Ten Hag better than Ole - yes.

Here are my views. Just to be clear.

Correct, ppg is objective than shots conceded, likewise league position is at higher level than ppg?

Arguments takes weird turns because you keep digging bigger hole with every argument and then shifts goal posts.

So your argument is all down to league cup, EtH is better because he won league cup? Because apart from that I see nothing that he did that was better than what Ole did.

 

[roonster09]

Wow, roonster got wound up eh?

That hard just to say Ole was shite along with the rest of them.
What a bizarre bunch our fans are that seem so desperate for “their man” to be a little bit less shit than another failed manager.

Ofcourse it's achievement. 3rd and cup, how can it be not an achievement.

You should understand what's achievement and what's success. 2nd, 3rd and cup win is an achievement (Good one too). Is there tenure success? No. They all failed.

And bore off with your agenda nonsense. It's tedious.

Maybe not as hard to read.

Wasn't it you who posted PPG to prove EtH was little less shit? What a strange bunch we have who are desperate.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

After watching glorious SAF years where only first was considered as success and second as failure, how did you let your standards slip so low that you supported manager who finished 6th .

I’ll support our manager next season in fairness if he wins us the league cup and Europa League double whilst losing only 5 in the league. (Our lowest since Fergie).
He also ended up on 69 points which betters Ole’s first season also.
Ole for what it’s worth lost that many (5) in just 7 games when he got fired

That said, it’s be a shite second season for a manager mind, but as a first season, it’d be a start.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Maybe not as hard to read.

Wasn't it you who posted PPG to prove EtH was little less shit? What a strange bunch we have who are desperate.

No, I proved just how fecking shite Ole is, because if this current shite manager out performs you, well…. You’re turd.

 

[VP89]

Correct, ppg is objective than shots conceded, likewise league position is at higher level than ppg?

Arguments takes weird turns because you keep digging bigger hole with every argument and then shifts goal posts.

So your argument is all down to league cup, EtH is better because he won league cup? Because apart from that I see nothing that he did that was better than what Ole did.

I'm not shifting shite. I'm not the one starting debates about Ole vs Ten Hag. Another poster did because theyre so fixated on Ole they cant help drive a shitty false narrative.

My argument is that ETH is better because 1) He has more silverware, and he hit 2 finals in 2 seasons, 2) he has a better ppg & yielded a better overall point tally than Ole's best attempt in 3.5 years within 1 season and 3) in spite of having such concentrated injuries, he will still land up either better than or the same as Ole's final season.

Pick any of the 3, I don't care. The fact that you have form for burying your head in the sand about Ole's frailties and want to berate other posters for "worshipping" Ten Hag shows you have no sensible view on the matter.

 

[RatPack]

Make Rashford the coach. Just make sure his contract states he is not a playing coach.

 

[roonster09]

No, I proved just how fecking shite Ole is, because if this current shite manager out performs you, well…. You’re turd.

Wow, roonster got wound up eh?

That hard just to say Ole was shite along with the rest of them.
What a bizarre bunch our fans are that seem so desperate for “their man” to be a little bit less shit than another failed manager.

What a bizarre bunch eh

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What a bizarre bunch eh

Aye, only one is claiming them all shite.

I’ll ask you straight out then:

Is ETH doing shite?
Was Ole shite?
Was Mourinho shite?

I say yes to all, in varying degrees, each did something ok, each did plenty of shite. Ultimately all of them were awful expensive failures.

You though?

 

[roonster09]

I'm not shifting shite. I'm not the one starting debates about Ole vs Ten Hag. Another poster did because theyre so fixated on Ole they cant help drive a shitty false narrative.

My argument is that ETH is better because 1) He has more silverware, and he hit 2 finals in 2 seasons, 2) he has a better ppg & yielded a better overall point tally than Ole's best attempt in 3.5 years within 1 season and 3) in spite of having such concentrated injuries, he will still land up either better than or the same as Ole's final season.

Pick any of the 3, I don't care. The fact that you have form for burying your head in the sand about Ole's frailties and want to berate other posters for "worshipping" Ten Hag shows you have no sensible view on the matter.

fecking hell, how can you argue that when one manager finished in better league position, much better undelying numbers and also completely ignore the cup runs, like the draws for the cup runs. On top of that make a weird claim that Ole finished 2nd only because it was closed stadium and then argue that other poster doesn't have sensible view on the matter. The lack of self awareness is staggering.

 

[roonster09]

Aye, only one is claiming them all shite.

I’ll ask you straight out then:

Is ETH doing shite?
Was Ole shite?
Was Mourinho shite?

I say yes to all, in varying degrees, each did something ok, each did plenty of shite.

You though?

You are the only one who claimed them all shite? No shit sherlock, everyone did. Everyone called all 3 of them a failure.

All you did was what "bizarre bunch" did, arguing who was less shit.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

fecking hell, how can you argue that when one manager finished in better league position, much better undelying numbers and also completely ignore the cup runs, like the draws for the cup runs. On top of that make a weird claim that Ole finished 2nd only because it was closed stadium and then argue that other poster doesn't have sensible view on the matter. The lack of self awareness is staggering.

Oh, here he is again.

 

[VP89]

fecking hell, how can you argue that when one manager finished in better league position, much better undelying numbers and also completely ignore the cup runs, like the draws for the cup runs. On top of that make a weird claim that Ole finished 2nd only because it was closed stadium and then argue that other poster doesn't have sensible view on the matter. The lack of self awareness is staggering.

Wow - it's astounding how poorly you've comprehended not just my posts, but 2-3 others here as well. You're having a mare today.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You are the only one who claimed them all shite? No shit sherlock, everyone did. Everyone called all 3 of them a failure.

All you did was what you accused others of being a bizarre bunch, arguing who was less shit.

Ha ha, brilliant bit of gaslighting.

 

[roonster09]

Ha ha, brilliant bit of gaslighting.

Or your inability to read posts.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Or your inability to read posts.

Give it a rest fella, you’ve got yourself in a bizarre crusade here again against multiple posters and all just because you can’t just accept that Ole was absolutely terrible and a massive waste of the longest managerial stint since Fergie.

Some things are worth the effort, Ole’s 3 years as manager just aren’t.

 

[roonster09]

Oh, here he is again.

Lack awareness?

Wow - it's astounding how poorly you've comprehended not just my posts, but 2-3 others here as well. You're having a mare today.

So tell me what was wrong there. Did you not make excuse for Ole's league position saying it was because of lack of crowd.

If you are arguing PPG, isn't better metric league position?

Again talking about sensible views, isn't a sensible view to say Ole did better than EtH which is measure using lot of metrics, like possession, better xGD, better goal difference, better league position, more goals, less conceded. How can you ignore everything and then accuse others of not holding a sensible view.

All you are doing is being a caveman view, PPG, league cup, 20 shots conceded per game doesn't matter.

 

[roonster09]

Give it a rest fella, you’ve got yourself in a bizarre crusade here again against multiple posters and all just because you can’t just accept that Ole was absolutely terrible and a massive waste of the longest managerial stint since Fergie.

Again terrible waste of post because of your incapability to read post or see things beyond black or white.

Just to repeat, no shit sherlock, you are not the only one who said all of them were shit. Lot of us, me included wanted Ole gone long before he was sacked and I wanted him going in his first full season. Doesn't mean I have to do mental gymnastics to prove the shit show that is today is better than Ole's tenure.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Ha ha, brilliant bit of gaslighting.

It's that or, an absolutely appalling comprehension of what people are actually saying. I'm really not sure which it is.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

All you are doing is being a caveman view, PPG, league cup, 20 shots conceded per game doesn't matter.

Out of interest, how many shots did we concede when Ole got fired mid-season for being so awful?

I know we conceded like 21 in 12 games but no idea how his season was stacking up except that it was bad, and likely to get much worse.

 

[roonster09]

It's that or, an absolutely appalling comprehension of what people are actually saying. I'm really not sure which it is.

Stop being so hostile.

Or again lack of comprehension. I asked you a simple question, because you read it wrong, you went on a rant on how I'm being hostile.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's that or, an absolutely appalling comprehension of what people are actually saying. I'm really not sure which it is.

His head has clearly gone, it’s like he’s in the middle of a pub throwing punches at everyone in sight and blaming them for forcing him to.

 

[roonster09]

Out of interest, how many shots did we concede when Ole got fired mid-season for being so awful?

I know we conceded like 21 in 12 games but no idea how his season was stacking up except that it was bad, and likely to get much worse.

I don't have stats for that, someone should go game by game and tally up the stats.

Would be very surprised if it was anything close to this.

 

[roonster09]

His head has clearly gone, it’s like he’s in the middle of a pub throwing punches at everyone in sight and blaming them for forcing him to.

Take a step back and think ffs.

You accuse others as bizarre bunch because they are arguing who was less shit, you went on to do the same thing in every post.

Do you guys seriously lack self awareness? Or you guys don't even read what you post.

 

[VP89]

So tell me what was wrong there. Did you not make excuse for Ole's league position saying it was because of lack of crowd.

I think what Ole acheived in year 2 was impressive, but there has to be context with empty stadiums attached to that, because there was a narrative of choking around his squad. Entering cups, reaching the semis or the finals and losing them. I think he generally was a terrible manager for instilling winning mentality and let standards slip massively in training. That very good year 2 was sandwiched between a poor debut season and a terrible final season, despite having half a season's head start before.

We came back from behind to salvage a lot of games in the standout year, and it was never sustainable. We also overperformed the XG metrics in a bunch of those games, but weirdly people don't want to revisit the underlying stats there near as much.

If you are arguing PPG, isn't better metric league position?

No standalone metric is good enough - generally comparing across seasons is dicey because injuries, other team situations and other external factors can affect it. That's why I wasn't the one who started the point. But for me its clear Ole is worse than Ten Hag because of all the things I've mentioned.

Again talking about sensible views, isn't a sensible view to say Ole did better than EtH which is measure using lot of metrics, like possession, better xGD, better goal difference, better league position, more goals, less conceded. How can you ignore everything and then accuse others of not holding a sensible view.

All you are doing is being a caveman view, PPG, league cup, 20 shots conceded per game doesn't matter.

Ten Hag last season was very good. Ten Hag this season is terrible. Ole's final season was terrible. But Ole's final season did not have the concentrated injuries that our manager has. I think we'd be much, much worse if he was dealt with the same defensive problems.

Ole's last season was hands on hips football and players outright not bothering, that for me was more damning and embarrassing to watch than seeing our players fail to execute an ambitious system but still giving 100% for the most part.

 

[Robbie Boy]

His head has clearly gone, it’s like he’s in the middle of a pub throwing punches at everyone in sight and blaming them for forcing him to.

Making out anyone is "worshipping ETH" when it's clear who has their little favourite. Then when I clarify things repeatly, the gaslighting and weird tangents start.

This race to find the least shit post-Fergie manager is quite something.