If Rashford hits another purple patch, will it change your mind on him?

A lot of people are misunderstanding the context of the thread.

Yes of course I'll be happy that Marcus is in another one of his purple patches, and it may help us win more games. Great, fantastic.

But I won't "care" insofar as in my mind, any uptick in form from Marcus will be only be temporary, and he'll once again fall back into his sulky, broody, wasteful ineffectiveness.

So I'll be thinking "thanks Marcus, but my mind's already made up on you"
 
Borys said:
That's true - partially. First of all, when he receives a ball and is against 4 players, the "lack of space" is not an excuse to run at them and lose the ball easily. What he needs to do in that situation is to revert back to "basics", and he doesn't seem capable of doing so what is a big problem.
Secondly, He was against one CP defender a few times last game, but he's clearly in bad form right now as he did nothing with this.

Both him and Bruno focus too much on getting through on goal in the simplest, fastest way.
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This is not just in response to your post, but;

The thing is, he's actually 8th in the Premier League in Shot-creating actions, and he's tops in the Premier League in take-ons that lead to a shot, with 9. Nobody else has more than 6. In other words, he is by some distance the best player in the league when it comes to taking on a defender and getting a shot out of it. He's tied for third in successful take-ons - in other words, only two players in the league have been getting past defenders more frequently than he has.

You wouldn't have thought that was the case from reading this thread, and it seems slightly absurd to me to portray him as a player who is prone to aimless and badly judged take-ons that result in nothing. He is, demonstrably, pretty much the opposite of that. He does it very well, and he makes it count. It absolutely is debatable whether in a given situation he ought to have done something different, but it's not like he's not accomplishing anything with what he's currently doing. It's basically the goals that are missing, other than that there is really not much to complain about in his game. Well, maybe his defensive work a bit too.
 
For me, he has never had a true purple patch. I'd consider a purple patch a spell of complete performances and he has never bothered his arse to help his fullback. Wish we'd get rid of these lazy players but instead we make them posterboys.
 
I know what you mean, he's streaky as feck so it will be hard to trust the next time is the time it all comes together and just continues. It probably won't.

I've kind of checked out until the Glazers have fecked off in terms of caring about any of the details like this. But yeah, a Marcus purple-patch would come in quite handy at this point. Just for the fact I do hope ETH is still around by the time we have competent owners in charge.
 
garelo said:
forget about goals, i want him to be a team player more. Giggs didnt score as much but i'd take him over Rashford any day of the week simply because he was a player who can bring everyone into the game.
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This for me - We need someone who benefits the team. A winger should dribble of course, but look at City - they mostly do it when the odds are good for a dribble or a shot.

They don't take 4 touches and try to dribble 3 defenders in front of them. Get the ball moving fast and run a lot off the ball (the whole team) until there's actual space to do something.

When that is done, you either cross or you take on the 1 or 2 players in front of you, not the opposite way around. Somehow we think as a team we should just pass it to Rashford. He suffers from our way of thinking too.
 
justsomebloke said:
This is not just in response to your post, but;

The thing is, he's actually 8th in the Premier League in Shot-creating actions, and he's tops in the Premier League in take-ons that lead to a shot, with 9. Nobody else has more than 6. In other words, he is by some distance the best player in the league when it comes to taking on a defender and getting a shot out of it. He's tied for third in successful take-ons - in other words, only two players in the league have been getting past defenders more frequently than he has.

You wouldn't have thought that was the case from reading this thread, and it seems slightly absurd to me to portray him as a player who is prone to aimless and badly judged take-ons that result in nothing. He is, demonstrably, pretty much the opposite of that. He does it very well, and he makes it count. It absolutely is debatable whether in a given situation he ought to have done something different, but it's not like he's not accomplishing anything with what he's currently doing. It's basically the goals that are missing, other than that there is really not much to complain about in his game. Well, maybe his defensive work a bit too.
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No shit when everything runs into you and you're too selfish to even share it with your teammate
 
I've said it in his performance thread, he is a streaky player, there is even an article about it in the Athletic.

I've accepted it, and I hope EtH has the balls to drop him sometimes so he can lit a fire up his bum so he can at least be bothered when playing.
 
Honestly this place matches RAWK at its worst when the team is struggling. Will happily ignore the the issues and hound out every player they irrationally don't like.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
If he would only pass it our magical possession play would create a far better chance every time, like it does when we progress the ball down the right
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:)

And I'd mention that his expected assists this season is better than any United attacker not called Bruno.

Not that he's much of a playmaking winger - that's not his game, never has been. Probably never will be. Probably shouldn't be, given how effective he actually is with the game he does have.
 
Of course i'd care, we need to win games and we need to score goals to do so. A purple patch like last year's would get us a good run of wins.

I think the obvious difference is that we cannot afford to go into next season with him as our main goal scorer. We need multiple players with a high goal threat. Right now it seems we have none.
 
justsomebloke said:
This is not just in response to your post, but;

The thing is, he's actually 8th in the Premier League in Shot-creating actions, and he's tops in the Premier League in take-ons that lead to a shot, with 9. Nobody else has more than 6. In other words, he is by some distance the best player in the league when it comes to taking on a defender and getting a shot out of it. He's tied for third in successful take-ons - in other words, only two players in the league have been getting past defenders more frequently than he has.

You wouldn't have thought that was the case from reading this thread, and it seems slightly absurd to me to portray him as a player who is prone to aimless and badly judged take-ons that result in nothing. He is, demonstrably, pretty much the opposite of that. He does it very well, and he makes it count. It absolutely is debatable whether in a given situation he ought to have done something different, but it's not like he's not accomplishing anything with what he's currently doing. It's basically the goals that are missing, other than that there is really not much to complain about in his game. Well, maybe his defensive work a bit too.
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I don't think anyone would dispute that he is still pretty good at it, but those numbers are also a result of high volume of take-ons. Watching the game, too often he goes for the impossible run instead of trying to find a safer/better option.

It always sounds bad to say "our best attacker should more often go for a safer option", but watching him play it's quite clear he is running into walls. That said, he scored quite a number of goals this way last season - running at many people and somehow squeezing behind them, so go figure. I am not going to play smart here, it's quite a conundrumwhat to do with Rashford.
 
I’m hoping PSG come in with a bid and we sell . A lazy selfish individual who plays for himself and not the team. He can feck off
 
Sky1981 said:
Go ahead, make a compilation of Rashford last 20 touch.

See for yourself
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Why on earth would I do that? Is your point that Rashford's been bad for his past 20 touches?

The point you insist on ignoring is that he's demonstrably the best player in the Premier League in creating a shot by taking on a defender. And that he's one of the very best in the Premier League at getting past a defender. Neither of which flows inevitably from being a selfish player that gets a lot of passes, and which means that he is - demonstrably - very very good at doing the sort of things he's doing, and also that those things result in tangible benefits to the team. But you don't want to see that, you just want to be angry with Marcus Rashford.
 
justsomebloke said:
Why on earth would I do that? Is your point that Rashford's been bad for his past 20 touches?

The point you insist on ignoring is that he's demonstrably the best player in the Premier League in creating a shot by taking on a defender. And that he's one of the very best in the Premier League at getting past a defender. Neither of which flows inevitably from being a selfish player that gets a lot of passes, and which means that he is - demonstrably - very very good at doing the sort of things he's doing, and also that those things result in tangible benefits to the team. But you don't want to see that, you just want to be angry with Marcus Rashford.
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:lol:
 
People complain that the team don't looked coached in attacking play, Ole-ball etc etc.

Maybe it's always just been that Rashford isn't capable of being coached into a "patterns of play" attacker and he's been the problem all along.
 
No, he has the same problems when he broke through, in fact, an 18 year old Rashford would be better right now.

It just shows the incompetency of upper management to give this guy £350k a week.

But to be fair, I said before Ten Hag got hired, that most of this team should be sold, all the new players were bringing in are just being infected by the terrible attitude of the dross that has festered at the club.
 
The problem with Rashford is he’s either a 9/10 player or a 3/10 player, there’s very rarely anything in between.
 
Borys said:
I don't think anyone would dispute that he is still pretty good at it, but those numbers are also a result of high volume of take-ons. Watching the game, too often he goes for the impossible run instead of trying to find a safer/better option.

It always sounds bad to say "our best attacker should more often go for a safer option", but watching him play it's quite clear he is running into walls. That said, he scored quite a number of goals this way last season - running at many people and somehow squeezing behind them, so go figure. I am not going to play smart here, it's quite a conundrumwhat to do with Rashford.
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Not just still pretty good at it, but actually quite a bit better at it than he was last season. He just isn't scoring. It's true he's got a high number of attempts, but as you know, you won't find many players that has both a high number of attempts and a high success rate. And in that picture, his success rate is actually pretty impressive. Of the four players who have more attempts than him, only one - Eberechi Eze - has a better success %. If you consider the 24 players who have at least 20 attempts (Rashford has 35), only four of them have a better success %. I'd say that's a pretty strong combo, which strongly indicates that this is a player who should be emphasising that part of his game.

That being said, I agree that there's obviously a balance to be struck somewhere, and you could have a debate about whether he ought to pass more and challenge less. As long as we remember that that's a matter of nuance, not the crushing indictment the OP and some posters here imagines it to be.
 
So to clarify, we now "don't care" if our players start playing well, because its more important that we can support them by slagging them off and calling them rubbish.

Ok...
 
You haven't phrased it well, but no, it won't impact my thoughts on Rashford if he scores a load of goals in the near future. I think he can be a great player, but I wouldn't be too fussed if we got someone else in that can be more consistent.

We need players with high floors and ones that are completely bought into selfless, team football. I just don't think he suits that concept. The problem is it's very hard to find players that have everything mentioned above.
 
Rockets Redglare said:
The problem with Rashford is he’s either a 9/10 player or a 3/10 player, there’s very rarely anything in between.
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That's completely wrong. In terms of performance, he is usually one of our most consistent. It's just that since he's not really a ball processer, his impact centers on a limited number of high-end involvements, so his performance tends to get rated on whether he scores or not, or in the light of one or two specific situations that people get hung up on. To an extent that's fair since that's what he brings, but it's not like there's huge swings in what he does or how well he does it.
 
Yes, because like him or not, Rashford is the only forward player we have who can put the ball in the back of the net with any level of consistency. He should be benched for Galatasaray because he's been rancid in the last few games and no player's place in the team should be guaranteed, but we still need him.

He isn't good enough off the ball and his decision making is poor. I don't have much hope the former will ever truly improve, the latter is partially a confidence thing. We're not in a position where we can afford to write him off though.
 
noodlehair said:
So to clarify, we now "don't care" if our players start playing well, because its more important that we can support them by slagging them off and calling them rubbish.

Ok...
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I hope we start winning matches but the likes of Rashford and everyone else in my team keep playing poorly.
 
So if Marcus goes on to have his 4th 30+ GA season for us but scores most of them between November and March, we’ve genuinely got a thread from a “fan” saying that they won’t care because he didn’t meet their expectations in the first 7 games? What a truly ridiculous forum this is.
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
Of course I'll care. We need fecking goals
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Was gonna say the same. We need goals and if McTom, Maguire or even Sancho came back in and had a purle patch of goals, then I think we would all welcome it.
Long term if Rashford doesnt have this purple patch then TH will have to drop him and look to offload him next summer. We cant carry another player just because they are on a big wage and 'pin up' player.
 
I'll care but I'll know it's not a panacea for our crap attacking play and this has always been the problem.

We need a system where Rashford (or any single player) doesn't have to be the hero in most games.
 
What's the alternative? Every time he's been out of the team or moved up front or to the right, nobody else has consistently done a better job. Sancho was as shit on the left as the right. Garnacho didn't pull up any trees when he started a couple of games. It's been so long since Martial played on the left, I don't even know if he could play there.

So in short, yes I'd really like a purple patch from Rashford.
 
On topic - yes i absolutely would care because it would mean we're picking up points but yeah, long term it shouldn't brush over his actual level.

Bif of a rant: Rashford is a fascinating case study around our club. You get some who would attack & over-criticize him (i.e. extremely underrated) & then you get others who will defend him blindly, at all costs (extremely overrated). Actually not entirely sure who is worse, in this case.

My own opinion is probably somewhere in the middle. He brings me as much joy when he is on form, as he does frustration when he's not. And "out of form" players - i have some patience for, but not the added baggage of the body language that just seems all entirely....wrong and disinterested. Yeah, I know I'm not a body language expert....it's like the one group waits for the purple patch to start creating threads mocking those who voted "sell him if a good offer comes in" and the other group waits for the purple patch to dry up to create....these threads.

My own opinion is that you'll struggle to ever win big titles - especially league titles, with players who has a "bottom level" that is so low. Highs of 8/9 out of 10, lows of 3/4 out of 10. That's a massive fall in performance. So from one week you become the teams talisman to the next when you're clearly holding the team back and costing them. Bruno is a similar case - and when your 2 most important attackers are both fairly direct but both blow this hot & cold....cue our struggles.

There are a few mitigating circumstances, granted. This issue is obviously compounded by the support cast being either new/inexperienced (Hojlund), always injured (Martial) or not providing enough/not good enough (Antony). If you think of all the big teams, they seem to have fairly "consistent" players - who provide the goods over the course of an entire season, or at least their performance levels doesn't drop to 3's and 4's often or for prolonged periods/if ever. Rooney, as an example, had quite a low bottom level from what i recall, but i doubt it ever lasted this long and i guess he always had others who could step up and bail the team out.

It's staggering how we're seemingly going backwards after all the money we've spent. I am a big fan of EtH but that faith is fast eroding this season because i will be steadfast and consistent in this: the manager must be held accountable at some point. I just fear the decision makers at the top are once again proving to be as incompetent as their predecessors, and seemingly haven't learnt a thing. And i was fairly excited when we got rid of Woodward.

Aargh, the joys of being a United fan, post SAF. So, so many false dawns.
 
Doracle said:
So if Marcus goes on to have his 4th 30+ GA season for us but scores most of them between November and March, we’ve genuinely got a thread from a “fan” saying that they won’t care because he didn’t meet their expectations in the first 7 games? What a truly ridiculous forum this is.
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Has he had 3 seasons already of 30 GA? Apart from last season I cant recall him ever hitting 30 GA in a season.
 
Would be happy of course but won't change my opinion that we should still sell him.
 
Don't think this means we won't care if he scores. More that if he gets a couple of goals we're not going back to thinking maybe we should bet the payroll on this guy being our future saviour/shining light.

I think even if he does go on run of goals - great. But we should resolve to move on from him as soon as we can.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
What evidence is there that he wields any such power. Because he starts over garnacho after scoring 30 goals last season ?
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Ole having to publicly say sorry for telling him to focus on football was ludicrous. Pretty sure reports when ETH took the job was to rebuild Rashford up, after Ralph was straight up with him and his PR machine
 
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