ICC Cricket World Cup 2019

AshRK said:
And I answered your damn question that you are just choosing to observe Indians being bitter when in the same social media there are lot of Indians who have also congratulated this English side and in fact were supporting your england over Australia in the semis. Also, if you go to the the ICC official twitter handle and check the replies from yesterday you will see a lot of people (even freaking non indians) are upset that NZ were hard one and no one is saying take the trophy away from Morgan or are upset because mighty England won.

Like I said if Aus or Ind won in the similar way people from england would have been upset for NZ. That does not mean all english people are bitter towards India. It's how rivalry in sports work. Maybe if you look at things with open mind you will see the true light. :cool:
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No, you keep saying that it's one person or dismissing the fact that the vast majority of people being bitter about it online are Indian. I haven't denied there are plenty of Indians congratulating England, just suggesting that there's a section of Indian fans who seem unhappier than most at the England win. I might well be wrong, hence why it was a fecking question I asked.

Maybe, but I doubt many England fans would be spamming twitter to say Australia robbed NZ, Australia cheated etc. I never once suggested 'all' Indian fans were bitter towards anything, just asked why it appears a large number of Indian fans are seriously upset (more than other nationalities) about England winning.

Had I straight up said 'oh my god Indians are so bitter about England what a bunch of losers' you'd have a point, but I didn't .. I just asked if there was some sort of big rivalry because it appears that way to someone who isn't big on cricket.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Why were so many Indians supporting New Zealand/are salty England won?

Is there some sort of Anti-England agenda amongst Indian fans?
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Why not? They are one of the nicest teams and for many people they are second team. Usually them and South Africans.

When Aussies played against England, most of Indians supported England, doesn't mean they are Anti Australians. It's just picking a side.
 
Zlatattack said:
British people need to understand that there are still people suffering the consequences today of the decisions of the Briitsh empire. For those people, the evil of empire doesn't end - because the suffering caused by it hasn't ended.

I'm not saying this particular cricketing rivaly is down to that, it might just be that the person involved considers England India a sporting rivalry - but I think the political history adds a bit to it. Like England Germany or England Scotland.
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Understand that and you're absolutely right that the consequences are still there, but in general I'm not huge on holding grudges for the sins of people's ancestors.

I also think our rivalry with Germany is silly when it extends beyond friendly banter, some of our footie fans can be right cnuts about it. Germans now aren't responsible for the crimes of the Nazis.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
They're a strong outfit. Warner and Smith are back and I feel that'll cause a few problems for you.

I think this is the strongest Aussie side since 2005 (tours to UK).
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Think they'll be outdone by any swing and their inability to play a moving ball.

It'll be close, but I fancy us to edge it again.
 
roonster09 said:
Why not? They are one of the nicest teams and for many people they are second team. Usually them and South Africans.

When Aussies played against England, most of Indians supported England, doesn't mean they are Anti Australians. It's just picking a side.
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From what I've seen on social media, a lot of it seems to go significantly beyond just supporting the underdog. Again, just an observation from looking at various social media platforms.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
From what I've seen on social media, a lot of it seems to go significantly beyond just supporting the underdog. Again, just an observation from looking at various social media platforms.
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Maybe that's the problem. All the toxic cnuts are on twitter abusing everyone and everything.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
No, you keep saying that it's one person or dismissing the fact that the vast majority of people being bitter about it online are Indian. I haven't denied there are plenty of Indians congratulating England, just suggesting that there's a section of Indian fans who seem unhappier than most at the England win. I might well be wrong, hence why it was a fecking question I asked.

Maybe, but I doubt many England fans would be spamming twitter to say Australia robbed NZ, Australia cheated etc. I never once suggested 'all' Indian fans were bitter towards anything, just asked why it appears a large number of Indian fans are seriously upset (more than other nationalities) about England winning.

Had I straight up said 'oh my god Indians are so bitter about England what a bunch of losers' you'd have a point, but I didn't .. I just asked if there was some sort of big rivalry because it appears that way to someone who isn't big on cricket.
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Similarly, I have not encountered any Indian fans in social media, be it twitter or facebook calling England cheats. People might be blaming ICC and their rules but I have not seen people from India saying ENgland cheated their way to winning this WC.

Also, England are not India's main rivals. It's Pakistan and Australia, so to answer your question there is no huge rivalry. We are rivals but not like one you have with Arsenal.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
They're a strong outfit. Warner and Smith are back and I feel that'll cause a few problems for you.

I think this is the strongest Aussie side since 2005 (tours to UK).
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I really like the Aussie seam attack. Their Batsman have been pathetic against the swinging ball on recent tours though. Tough series to call.
 
roonster09 said:
Maybe that's the problem. All the toxic cnuts are on twitter abusing everyone and everything.
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True, but it just seems like .. a lot of Indians specifically on social media doing it. Hence why I asked if there was some sort of fierce rivalry involved.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
True, but it just seems like .. a lot of Indians specifically on social media doing it. Hence why I asked if there was some sort of fierce rivalry involved.
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Not sure. I'm on twitter (just to follow transfers) and I barely see anything. Maybe I don't follow many lunatics.
 
AshRK said:
Similarly, I have not encountered any Indian fans in social media, be it twitter or facebook calling England cheats. People might be blaming ICC and their rules but I have not seen people from India saying ENgland cheated their way to winning this WC.

Also, England are not India's main rivals. It's Pakistan and Australia, so to answer your question there is no huge rivalry. We are rivals but not like one you have with Arsenal.
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Really? Just looking through a few of the twitter threads it's full of Indians full on crying about the result: . Blaming the ICC and it's rules is one thing, but a lot of them are just coming off as seriously salty about it.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Really? Just looking through a few of the twitter threads it's full of Indians full on crying about the result: . Blaming the ICC and it's rules is one thing, but a lot of them are just coming off as seriously salty about it.
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With a billion+ population, you can get a twitter sample for anything you wish to convey. As AshRk says, lots of Indians did root for NZ, but at the end, it's still a neutral game.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Really? Just looking through a few of the twitter threads it's full of Indians full on crying about the result: . Blaming the ICC and it's rules is one thing, but a lot of them are just coming off as seriously salty about it.
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Yes there are plenty salty about it. It amplifies when we have a billion with access to twitter. But I would still say, majority were rather miffed with rules and ICC and feeling bad for NZ. But in the end, I don't blame you for your perception. England won and deservedly. Congrats. Ignore Twitter but if it makes you feel good about it, then carry on as well. What is sport without mindless tribal rivalry.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Really? Just looking through a few of the twitter threads it's full of Indians full on crying about the result: . Blaming the ICC and it's rules is one thing, but a lot of them are just coming off as seriously salty about it.
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Just quickly glanced towards some of the comments. Again coming to the original point, not one tweet where any one called England as cheats. People are upset because NZ were very close and actually in the game of cricket something like this had never happened and that to at the Finals so people will naturally feel sympathy towards the underdogs in NZ.

Also, the reason you find most tweets from indians is because India has the second largest population so every other tweet will be from indians, but if you scroll down some you will see similar comments from Pakistan supports, Sri Lankan supporters. Put India in place of england you would see much more salty comments from other nationalities with comments like ICC= BCCI being the most popular. Similarly if it was Aus instead of NZ and they had lost liek that same indian fans would have trolled the aussies. It is how it works in every sport.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Understand that and you're absolutely right that the consequences are still there, but in general I'm not huge on holding grudges for the sins of people's ancestors.

I also think our rivalry with Germany is silly when it extends beyond friendly banter, some of our footie fans can be right cnuts about it. Germans now aren't responsible for the crimes of the Nazis.
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With all due respect, that judgement call isn't one for you to make. It's complicated and messy, and personally as a Pakistan fan, I'm not particularly fussed re the sporting aspect, though can understand anyone who does still have those hang-ups. Especially if they are from the Indian Subcontinent. Look at the bloodshed caused by partition and the subsequent wars over Kashmir and Bangladesh, or the Bengal Famine, or how the British literally grew richer off the backs of India when at the time the East India Co came round, India was one of the richest countries in the world. Those are just a few examples of how the impacts of colonialism are still felt to this day.

I personally wasn't fussed who won yesterday but if I was to choose, it would have been NZ. Not because of colonialism, but because of how NZ should have won it last time out, how they conduct themselves, how they beat India in the semis, and also most importantly, because of how the big three of the ICC are utter cnuts and have screwed the game over as a whole for their own greed and selfish benefit.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
He's not British, my man.
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Best World Cup final ever. Ben Stokes showed he’s a big game player, props to him. Without him England would’ve been thrashed for sure.

I do feel sad for New Zealand. ICC should find better ways to settle tied matches. A second super over or sudden death would’ve been much better. I mean if super over is tied, each team faces one ball and whoever scores more on that ball wins.
 
AshRK said:
Just quickly glanced towards some of the comments. Again coming to the original point, not one tweet where any one called England as cheats. People are upset because NZ were very close and actually in the game of cricket something like this had never happened and that to at the Finals so people will naturally feel sympathy towards the underdogs in NZ.

Also, the reason you find most tweets from indians is because India has the second largest population so every other tweet will be from indians, but if you scroll down some you will see similar comments from Pakistan supports, Sri Lankan supporters. Put India in place of england you would see much more salty comments from other nationalities with comments like ICC= BCCI being the most popular. Similarly if it was Aus instead of NZ and they had lost liek that same indian fans would have trolled the aussies. It is how it works in every sport.
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You think those comments are just upset because it was close? Maybe, it comes off as far more bitter than that to me, but we all perceive things differently I guess.

India having such a large population/being so invested in cricket makes sense as an explanation. It's just from what I was seeing it seemed like there was some huge rivalry between the two countries in cricket, but it seems like that isn't necessarily the case.
 
Dans said:
Whilst I am ecstatic we won, I think he has a point. I did wonder why NZ's 8 didn't trump our 10 outs.
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It depends how you look at it, the wickets are there for you to use to maximise the score, not to save. NZ had 2 wickets in hand which they could have used to be a bit more adventurous in the final couple of overs and avoid this whole situation. Instead you have things like batsmen ducking a ball in a World Cup final. Not saying they deserved what they got at all but they had resources at the end to push a little harder. A little harder might have been all they needed.
 
rotherham_red said:
With all due respect, that judgement call isn't one for you to make. It's complicated and messy, and personally as a Pakistan fan, I'm not particularly fussed re the sporting aspect, though can understand anyone who does still have those hang-ups. Especially if they are from the Indian Subcontinent. Look at the bloodshed caused by partition and the subsequent wars over Kashmir and Bangladesh, or the Bengal Famine, or how the British literally grew richer off the backs of India when at the time the East India Co came round, India was one of the richest countries in the world. Those are just a few examples of how the impacts of colonialism are still felt to this day.

I personally wasn't fussed who won yesterday but if I was to choose, it would have been NZ. Not because of colonialism, but because of how NZ should have won it last time out, how they conduct themselves, how they beat India in the semis, and also most importantly, because of how the big three of the ICC are utter cnuts and have screwed the game over as a whole for their own greed and selfish benefit.
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I get why people would hold grudges, what England/the British Empire did to India (and other countries, obviously) during the colonial era was horrendous and should forever be something the country reflects on as one of it's darkest periods.

I just think it's a shame that politics etc have to leak over in to sport.
 
rotherham_red said:
With all due respect, that judgement call isn't one for you to make. It's complicated and messy, and personally as a Pakistan fan, I'm not particularly fussed re the sporting aspect, though can understand anyone who does still have those hang-ups. Especially if they are from the Indian Subcontinent. Look at the bloodshed caused by partition and the subsequent wars over Kashmir and Bangladesh, or the Bengal Famine, or how the British literally grew richer off the backs of India when at the time the East India Co came round, India was one of the richest countries in the world. Those are just a few examples of how the impacts of colonialism are still felt to this day.

I personally wasn't fussed who won yesterday but if I was to choose, it would have been NZ. Not because of colonialism, but because of how NZ should have won it last time out, how they conduct themselves, how they beat India in the semis, and also most importantly, because of how the big three of the ICC are utter cnuts and have screwed the game over as a whole for their own greed and selfish benefit.
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Blaming Britain for a lot of that is biased though. The partition was a multi-partisan affair, the split based on religious lines was pushed by the leaders of India and Pakistan at the time. The Bangladesh independence war was caused by Pakistan - and the massacre of millions and rape of hundreds of the thousands lies solely with them. India may have been rich (though I'm not sure if that's true and I'll take your word for it), but the industrial revolution happened in the UK in the 1700 and 1800s that saw a huge gain in productivity in the western world.

And then there's the other side to the coin - the legal system introduced, educational schools built, trains and infrastructure. My point is, whilst Britain did primarily make money from India, it isn't a one sided affair.
 
Dans said:
Whilst I am ecstatic we won, I think he has a point. I did wonder why NZ's 8 didn't trump our 10 outs.
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Don’t think he has any point just on the basis of what you mention. The rules were pre set. However shitty they might be, time to discuss that is not after the tournament. It is unfair on England to retroactively use that as a stick.
 
AshRK said:
Just quickly glanced towards some of the comments. Again coming to the original point, not one tweet where any one called England as cheats. People are upset because NZ were very close and actually in the game of cricket something like this had never happened and that to at the Finals so people will naturally feel sympathy towards the underdogs in NZ.

Also, the reason you find most tweets from indians is because India has the second largest population so every other tweet will be from indians, but if you scroll down some you will see similar comments from Pakistan supports, Sri Lankan supporters. Put India in place of england you would see much more salty comments from other nationalities with comments like ICC= BCCI being the most popular. Similarly if it was Aus instead of NZ and they had lost liek that same indian fans would have trolled the aussies. It is how it works in every sport.
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This.

SquishyMcSquish said:
You think those comments are just upset because it was close? Maybe, it comes off as far more bitter than that to me, but we all perceive things differently I guess.

India having such a large population/being so invested in cricket makes sense as an explanation. It's just from what I was seeing it seemed like there was some huge rivalry between the two countries in cricket, but it seems like that isn't necessarily the case.
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Yup, people root for underdog, and are perfectly fine with accepting defeat if the favourites win by a convincing margin. The closer the game gets, the more bitter are the supporters of the underdog.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
You think those comments are just upset because it was close? Maybe, it comes off as far more bitter than that to me, but we all perceive things differently I guess.

India having such a large population/being so invested in cricket makes sense as an explanation. It's just from what I was seeing it seemed like there was some huge rivalry between the two countries in cricket, but it seems like that isn't necessarily the case.
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If you feel people moaning about ICC rules is being bitter about england winning then you can have that. I am no one to change your perception. Like I said such instance in cricket had never happened and the moment it happened it was always going to become the main focus. Maybe when the excitement settles in and people move on , people from England will also say the rules are bit off and needs to be more decisive. But that does not take anything away from your victory.
 
Moonred said:
Don’t think he has any point just on the basis of what you mention. The rules were pre set. However shitty they might be, time to discuss that is not after the tournament. It is unfair on England to retroactively use that as a stick.
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Not beating England at all. I wasn't aware that wickets were irrelevant. I agree, the umpiring error aside, we won by the rules fair and square.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I get why people would hold grudges, what England/the British Empire did to India (and other countries, obviously) during the colonial era was horrendous and should forever be something the country reflects on as one of it's darkest periods.

I just think it's a shame that politics etc have to leak over in to sport.
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Yeah, definitely agree with the boldened. I just hope that the coming generations can see it this way and work to improve the situations within their countries.
 
marktan said:
Blaming Britain for a lot of that is biased though. The partition was a multi-partisan affair, the split based on religious lines was pushed by the leaders of India and Pakistan at the time. The Bangladesh independence war was caused by Pakistan - and the massacre of millions and rape of hundreds of the thousands lies solely with them. India may have been rich (though I'm not sure if that's true and I'll take your word for it), but the industrial revolution happened in the UK in the 1700 and 1800s that saw a huge gain in productivity in the western world.

And then there's the other side to the coin - the legal system introduced, educational schools built, trains and infrastructure. My point is, whilst Britain did primarily make money from India, it isn't a one sided affair.
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There is so much of this post which is false.

But answering it would totally derail this thread, so I won't provide rebuttal, except to say, just because you've typed it doesn't make any of it true.
 
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marktan said:
Blaming Britain for a lot of that is biased though. The partition was a multi-partisan affair, the split based on religious lines was pushed by the leaders of India and Pakistan at the time. The Bangladesh independence war was caused by Pakistan - and the massacre of millions and rape of hundreds of the thousands lies solely with them. India may have been rich (though I'm not sure if that's true and I'll take your word for it), but the industrial revolution happened in the UK in the 1700 and 1800s that saw a huge gain in productivity in the western world.

And then there's the other side to the coin - the legal system introduced, educational schools built, trains and infrastructure. My point is, whilst Britain did primarily make money from India, it isn't a one sided affair.
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Christ, in a thread full of garbage, this second paragraph really takes the cake.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Why were so many Indians supporting New Zealand/are salty England won?

Is there some sort of Anti-England agenda amongst Indian fans?
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Yes. Supporting an underdog in a sport is a very rare event. Great question.
 
marktan said:
Blaming Britain for a lot of that is biased though. The partition was a multi-partisan affair, the split based on religious lines was pushed by the leaders of India and Pakistan at the time. The Bangladesh independence war was caused by Pakistan - and the massacre of millions and rape of hundreds of the thousands lies solely with them. India may have been rich (though I'm not sure if that's true and I'll take your word for it), but the industrial revolution happened in the UK in the 1700 and 1800s that saw a huge gain in productivity in the western world.

And then there's the other side to the coin - the legal system introduced, educational schools built, trains and infrastructure. My point is, whilst Britain did primarily make money from India, it isn't a one sided affair.
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This is the wrong thread for this discussion, but I see it the other way obviously.

The country being divided along religious lines was definitely not something which was agitated by the unanimous majority. There was massive debate over whether it was the correct course of action from within the Muslim minority, and Gandhi himself was against it.

The Bangladesh independence war came about as a consequence of the partition drawn up by the British. It divided Pakistan in to two and separated by one of the biggest land masses on earth, and the East Pakistanis had no real kinship with the West Pakistanis other than their religion. That was a practically impossible situation for a new nation to face. In fact, the Bengalis had more in common with the Indians across their border in terms of their culture than they did the Pakistanis. Yes the Pakistan army did horrendous things during that war, and I don't blame any Bangladeshi for feeling any grievances towards Pakistan for it (though in my experience from the Bengalis I've met most of our generation don't really feel any antipathy towards each other) but the prospect of Bangladeshi agitation for independence was a logical one considering they were being ruled by and a part of a nation they did not have much/no cultural ties to and the British could have easily foreseen this when the boundaries were drawn up.

I'd suggest you read Shashi Tharoor's writings on the matter re India's wealth at the time.

I didn't say it was one-sided tbf. I said it was a mess and the consequences of it are still being felt to this day.
 
Ah this was a nice thread while it lasted :) that article on ndtv.com which has been linked to in this thread is an absolute embarrassment to the person that wrote it.
 
I'm not Indian and I was firmly cheering NZ on. They were extremely hard done by imo especially with the news that England were awarded a run too many during their chase. Typical New Zealanders won't complain because it's not in their character but they certainly have cause to feel cheated.
 
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