Icardi offered to Man Utd

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devilish said:
Sure, the likes of Batigol and Shearer would be second fiddle to Vardy and Rashford
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They’d be different types of players if they came through today, they’d have to be; they’d still be superb players, albeit slightly different. Gary Lineker was a phenomenal player in the 80s, but he couldn’t play that way today because tactics have evolved. He’d probably be an inverted winger, or playing the role Sterling does at City.
 
SilverPaper on the Breeze said:
They’d be different types of players if they came through today, they’d have to be; they’d still be superb players, albeit slightly different. Gary Lineker was a phenomenal player in the 80s, but he couldn’t play that way today because tactics have evolved. He’d probably be an inverted winger, or playing the role Sterling does at City.
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If you think that these players could survive playing alongside the likes of Ince, Simeone, Batty, Keane and co by simply lazing around then think again. These players worked very hard in a football were defenders were actually allowed to be physical without seeing red. The results to that is quite evident. Van Basten ruined his career on the pitch while Batistuta can barely walk these days. Having said that, when you've got someone whose ridiculously good in scoring goals then its only fair that you play him as close to the small box as possible. That's because it only took 1 1/2 chance for them to score a goal and goals do matter in football. Take RVP for example. He took an extremely average side to Premier league victory and he wasn't even as good as Shearer or Batistuta were. Harry Kane does pretty much the same and he's nowhere near as good as Shearer or Batistuta were let alone Van Basten. That was the golden age of strikers and they had to be like that because it conceded to the golden age of defenders. I mean if Harry Kane can end up in Smalling pockets then imagine how he would fare against Maldini, Baresi etc.

So if you think that the likes of Rashford, Vardy or Firminio would keep Shearer, Batistuta or Van Basten on the bench then you're deeply mistaken.
 
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devilish said:
If you think that these players could survive playing alongside the likes of Ince, Simeone, Batty, Keane and co by simply lazing around then think again. These players worked very hard in a football were defenders were actually allowed to be physical without seeing red. The results to that is quite evident. Van Basten ruined his career on the pitch while Batistuta can barely walk these days. Having said that, when you've got someone whose ridiculously good in scoring goals then its only fair that you play him as close to the small box as possible. That's because it only took 1 1/2 chance for them to score a goal and goals do matter in football. Take RVP for example. He took an extremely average side to Premier league victory and he wasn't even as good as Shearer or Batistuta were. Harry Kane does pretty much the same and he's nowhere near as good as Shearer or Batistuta were let alone Van Basten. That was the golden age of strikers and they had to be like that because it conceded to the golden age of defenders. I mean if Harry Kane can end up in Smalling pockets then imagine how he would fare against Maldini, Baresi etc.

So if you think that the likes of Rashford, Vardy or Firminio would keep Shearer, Batistuta or Van Basten on the bench then you're deeply mistaken.
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I’m not suggesting they’d “keep them on the bench”, I’m saying they’d be different players because, as you allude to, the game is very different. Batistuta and Shearer, the examples you cite, were very good all round players which you can see from the variety of goals they scored. If Shearer were playing today, I imagine he’d play a lot like Harry Kane; hold the ball up, drop deep at times, use his passing range.

The players that I’m comparing the likes of Icardi and Lukaku to are more one dimensional than that. Ian Wright, Michael Owen, Darren Bent etc The majority of their goals coming from getting on the shoulder, being played through and finishing. They all had good scoring rates but they wouldn’t get into a top side now. That sort of player can take you so far (see Lukaku at Everton) but you don’t see the best sides playing with that kind of striker anymore. They’re too tactically limiting; you need to offer more than just goals.
 
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SilverPaper on the Breeze said:
I’m not suggesting they’d “keep them on the bench”, I’m saying they’d be different players because, as you allude to, the game is very different. Batistuta and Shearer, the examples you cite, were very good all round players which you can see from the variety of goals they scored. If Shearer were playing today, I imagine he’d play a lot like Harry Kane; hold the ball up, drop deep at times, use his passing range.

The players that I’m comparing the likes of Icardi and Lukaku to are more one dimensional than that. Ian Wright, Michael Owen, Darren Bent etc The majority of their goals coming from getting on the shoulder, being played through and finishing. They all had good scoring rates but they wouldn’t get into a top side now. That sort of player can take you so far (see Lukaku at Everton) but you don’t see the best sides playing with that kind of striker anymore. They’re too tactically limiting; you need to offer more than just goals.
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When someone is as good in finishing as players like Owen or Shearer were then you'll want them as close to the opponent's goalkeeper as possible. In reality its not football that changed but more the players in question. Top quality finishers like Shearer, RVN or Batistuta don't exist anymore. Hence why teams had to adapt to the situation of having strikers who might not be as good in that area but who can alternatively compensate in other ways. That's exactly what Sir Alex did with Andy Cole.
 
Sure Inter will have something lined up for him after spending that big fee on Lukaku.
 
devilish said:
When someone is as good in finishing as players like Owen or Shearer were then you'll want them as close to the opponent's goalkeeper as possible. In reality its not football that changed but more the players in question. Top quality finishers like Shearer, RVN or Batistuta don't exist anymore. Hence why teams had to adapt to the situation of having strikers who might not be as good in that area but who can alternatively compensate in other ways. That's exactly what Sir Alex did with Andy Cole.
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Aguero was getting dropped for Jesus until he changed his game to be more involved.
 
tenpoless said:
This Wanda girl is not even hot and She has almost all the things I could possibly hate on a girl.

Icardi deserves her.
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To be perfectly honestly, and this is just me, but I wouldn't date a girl who has a child, no less 3 children and if I did, I probably wouldn't marry her a few months after she just broke up with the father of those kids, especially if the father of those kids was a really good mate of mine, and even then, if, and that's a big IF, I did decide to be with her and marry her, I wouldn't go and get a tattoo of those three kids on my arm. Not when I'm a high-profile footballer for a top team.


In fairness, I'm surprised Icardi is still able to stand up straight carrying around all that baggage.
 
devilish said:
When someone is as good in finishing as players like Owen or Shearer were then you'll want them as close to the opponent's goalkeeper as possible. In reality its not football that changed but more the players in question. Top quality finishers like Shearer, RVN or Batistuta don't exist anymore. Hence why teams had to adapt to the situation of having strikers who might not be as good in that area but who can alternatively compensate in other ways. That's exactly what Sir Alex did with Andy Cole.
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Have you any thoughts or insights into why that is? Do they literally not exist anymore or are they just not as effective due to modern tactics neutralising their effectiveness?

I feel like Lukaku marks the true death of the traditional #9 in a United shirt, but I can't really get my head around why.
 
SCJY said:
Have you any thoughts or insights into why that is? Do they literally not exist anymore or are they just not as effective due to modern tactics neutralising their effectiveness?

I feel like Lukaku marks the true death of the traditional #9 in a United shirt, but I can't really get my head around why.
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Those great numbers 9s from the past could at least control a ball. I’m surprised Lukaku has made it as far as he has with such limited basic skill set.
 
devilish said:
When someone is as good in finishing as players like Owen or Shearer were then you'll want them as close to the opponent's goalkeeper as possible. In reality its not football that changed but more the players in question. Top quality finishers like Shearer, RVN or Batistuta don't exist anymore. Hence why teams had to adapt to the situation of having strikers who might not be as good in that area but who can alternatively compensate in other ways. That's exactly what Sir Alex did with Andy Cole.
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Harry Kane isn't one of those top finishers?
Lewandowski?
 
SCJY said:
Have you any thoughts or insights into why that is? Do they literally not exist anymore or are they just not as effective due to modern tactics neutralising their effectiveness?

I feel like Lukaku marks the true death of the traditional #9 in a United shirt, but I can't really get my head around why.
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Football work in cycles. For example the EPL saw a gradual & constant improvement in CBs which spanned for generations. That peaked with Rio/Terry generation and we can say that the current CBs are worse then Rio, Terry or even Campbell

Traditional no 9 exist in the likes of Kane, Lukaku and Icardi. It's just that they aren't as good as the previous generation
 
giorno said:
Shearer, RvN or Van Basten :lol:

I mean...one's not like the others :lol:
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He mentioned the 90s style top finishers so here we are. It seems that they wouldn't cut it in a world where Rashford and Vardy play in

I think if you put the 90s style top finishers (Van Basten, Batistuta, Shearer) in today's football were defenders can't even sneeze towards strikers without getting a yellow card, then they'll double their goal tally.
 
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Billy Blaggs said:
I think he's in the ball park.
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I think you'll find that that guys like batistuta and van Basten scored in meaner defenses then the bundesliga. I mean we are talking of the same league we're even kagawa and Mkhitaryan scored loads of goal in
 
Ainu said:
Harry Kane hasn't been any less impressive than those guys so far in his career.
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Do you remember these guys in their prime though?

Let me show you this video. This is Van Basten at age 41 in a testimonial game. In 2006 he had long since retired, he didn't train anymore and may i remind you that he left football because of a very bad injury. He could only play for just 14 minutes and yet he scores that goal. His killer instinct is surreal, something I can't recall any of the modern strikers to have.

 
Billy Blaggs said:
Those goals were good in any league though.
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I think its one thing playing against some of the best defenders football had ever seen as compared to what you'll find in the Bundesliga were I remind you, even Kagawa and Mkhitaryan can score loads of goals
 
devilish said:
Do you remember these guys in their prime though?

Let me show you this video. This is Van Basten at age 41 in a testimonial game. In 2006 he had long since retired, he didn't train anymore and may i remind you that he left football because of a very bad injury. He could only play for just few minutes. His killer instinct is surreal, something I can't recall any of the modern strikers to have.

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The post I quoted mentions RvN and Shearer. Anyway, you mentioned top quality finishers, surely Kane is right there with those guys in terms of finishing? He doesn't have the all round ability of Van Basten, but then neither did the two you mentioned.
 
Ainu said:
The post I quoted mentions RvN and Shearer. Anyway, you mentioned top quality finishers, surely Kane is right there with those guys in terms of finishing? He doesn't have the all round ability of Van Basten, but then neither did the two you mentioned.
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I think Kane is among the best finishers in today's football and would have certainly been a good striker in the 90s. However I don't think he's a top finisher as RVN, Shearer or Batistuta were let alone Van Basten who was a notch above all the names I've mentioned. Kane is lucky to play in a league were defenders aren't as good as the 90s great. I mean there's a huge gap in quality between Van Dijk and Maguire to lets say Baresi, Maldini, Vierchowood and co. Also football has evolved in a way were strikers are given more protection then the ones in the past. Which in my opinion is a good thing as the likes of Kane would probably be able to retire without carrying debilitating injuries like the likes Van Basten and Batistuta have. The former can't even hit the gym like a normal person anymore while the latter can barely walk properly anymore. However it also means that the defenders Kane is facing have far less aces in their sleeve to stop them. That can and probably do inflate the goal tally.
 
devilish said:
I think Kane is among the best finishers in today's football however he's not as good as RVN and Shearer let alone Van Basten who was a notch above all the names I've mentioned (including Batistuta). Kane is lucky to play in a league were defenders aren't as good as the 90s great. I mean there's a huge gap in quality between Van Dijk and Maguire to lets say Baresi, Maldini and co. Also football has evolved in a way were strikers are given more protection then the ones in the past. Which in my opinion is a good thing as the likes of Kane would probably be able to retire without carrying debilitating injuries like the likes of Van Basten and Batistuta have. However it also means that the defenders Kane is facing have far less aces in their sleeve to stop them. That can and probably do inflate the goal tally.
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He played with those two defenders.
That AC Milan team was something else.
 
Window closed, thread done. Please take the discussion to a more relevant thread or create a new one.
 
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