Hunting

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Wibble said:
Is it? What particular biological cycle are you talking about? Or are you likening our actions to a simple biological instinctive response? If so social systems are part of biology (and a result of evolution BTW) and ethics are an intrinsic part of a social system. Therefore human ethics connected to the treatment of animals are just as big a part of our evolved biology as is this odd idea you have of us as some sort of rampaging ethics free alpha beast.
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Who says ethics are part of our social system. I've you've lived a life then you'll know that there is constant war, carnage, contempt for human and animal life (or blatant disregard for it), which is something that is present in a lot of humans. And what I am saying when I say "cycle", is that humans are constantly killing animals, and you probably eat them, as Elizabeth may, too, yet this all this arguing over hunting comes from some ethical or moral background which you two have developed over the graceful years of your lives, correct?

It's about the hypocrisy in all of you protesting about the hunting of animals, yet coming home to a big steak for dinner.

Hunting animals is normal, it is nothing that makes a person psychologically unkempt, and shouldn't be a reason for people to insult someone on an internet forum. It's got nothing to do with an "alpha beast", as you so eloquently put it, but with the fact that humans are born within a liberal nature, and so their actions, unless they can find a reason that is moral or ethical NOT to do them, are based upon animal instinct

It's like taking a child that was raised by baboons to go out into Colchester and be human. Thus when someone hunts for any animal, no ethical or moral barrier should prevent them from killing the animal, as it's perfectly normal
 
Wibble said:
a) What interation is there between Badgers and Cattle? Do you know that this is the main source of cattle infectiosn?
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I know enough about cattle farming, it is something I have lived with all my life. We are lucky that we don't have a large badger population, our main problem is foxes (although there is no organised hunt in our farm's area, so we have to pay for dealing with the feckers).

Wibble said:
b) even if it is perhaps some sort of immunisation program is in order,
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As you will read if you pick up on my other posts, they are developing a vaccine. The problem is current vaccines affect yield and quality. It has been suggested the perfected vaccine will be available and affordable in 5-10 years.

Wibble said:
and,
c) studies have shown that 10 years of culling (not hunting mind) have only had a limited efffect on cattle TB and has actually increased infections in non-culled areas by 25%, by displacing badgers.
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I would be interested to see this study. As I am sure you will find if you read through my posts, I support culling as the most effective method currently available. I will happily alter that opinion when there is something better.
 
Suprah™ said:
Who says ethics are part of our social system. I've you've lived a life then you'll know that there is constant war, carnage, contempt for human and animal life (or blatant disregard for it), which is something that is present in a lot of humans. And what I am saying when I say "cycle", is that humans are constantly killing animals, and you probably eat them, as Elizabeth may, too, yet this all this arguing over hunting comes from some ethical or moral background which you two have developed over the graceful years of your lives, correct?

If foxes were a food item and they were farmed/hunted/whatever in the most humane way possible I wouldn't have a problem. I don't think the meat industry is anywhere near as humane in it's methods as it could be.

What ever "wrongs" humans may do it doesn't mean that this makes torturing animals for fun right. Which is what hunting is. The idea that the huge costs in time and money that constitutes a hunt is primarily for controlling fox numbers is so absurd as to be laughable. It is a pastime/sport for those who take part.


It's about the hypocrisy in all of you protesting about the hunting of animals, yet coming home to a big steak for dinner.

It is nothing of the sort. Foxes aren't hunted for food or for biological control. They are nothing more than fancied up cock fighting, dog fighting or bear baiting. A huge difference.

Hunting animals is normal, it is nothing that makes a person psychologically unkempt, and shouldn't be a reason for people to insult someone on an internet forum.

Normal? What are you on about?

Animals "hunt" for food and not for pleasure. If it was the best way of betting food i wouldn't have much of an issue.

It's got nothing to do with an "alpha beast", as you so eloquently put it, but with the fact that humans are born within a liberal nature, and so their actions, unless they can find a reason that is moral or ethical NOT to do them, are based upon animal instinct

You aren't being very clear. You are hinting that we are natural born hunters and that therefore we should hunt anything for any reason. Is that what you are saying?

A very poor and odd argument to justify the entertainment that is fox hunting.

It's like taking a child that was raised by baboons to go out into Colchester and be human. Thus when someone hunts for any animal, no ethical or moral barrier should prevent them from killing the animal, as it's perfectly normal
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I sympathise with your disadvantages in life but what has that got to do with fox hunting as entertainment?

Or are you suggesting that we shouldn't be prevented from acting on any urge we ever have on the basis that it is "instinct"?

There goes criminal law for a start.
 
Suprah™ said:
Well that's no reason for it to be legal, is it, Mr. Angel?
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Where did I suggest that I had any objection to banning fishing solely as a sport?

I think it is impractical to ban it in many countries since much of the catch is eaten. I'd ban big game fishing and the like in a flash.
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
As you will read if you pick up on my other posts, they are developing a vaccine. The problem is current vaccines affect yield and quality. It has been suggested the perfected vaccine will be available and affordable in 5-10 years.

vaccinating badgers would make far more sense and I believe there is a large scale trial going on in the UK now.

I would be interested to see this study. As I am sure you will find if you read through my posts, I support culling as the most effective method currently available. I will happily alter that opinion when there is something better.
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It is all over the UK press. It was a study in Wales I think. Google News it and it should be there. Culling disruptd the social system of Badgers and causes them to migrate thus spreading the disease.
 
Suprah™ said:
Who says ethics are part of our social system.
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Animal behaviour scientists amongst others.

Ethics are just another name for sections of a social system. All animals have ethics even if you don't recognise them.
 
Suprah™ said:
Yes, and you have the proof from where?

from watching hunts from a few feet away


So based upon the caf's views no one else supports animal hunting? :lol: What unadulterated shit. Why are you correlating humans and animals again? They are a completely different species, and one is greater than the other in almost every sense (that is the power of mind, the power to discern; ergo, to live without basing their lives solely on biological instinct). So because no one supports his "hunting tales" on an internet forum it's a bad hobby and he's "bloodthirsty"?

Yes,its a cruel way to die and if he gets off on that he's blood thirsty



Is that meant to make me feel something? What's with all this sentimental garbage that you keep throwing at people?I don't care about your grandparents, just like none of you care about mine, and frankly posting that your grandparents are dead doesn't make you special. My grandparents are dead too, so does that mean I have to start posting some "show my granddaddy and grandmommy some respect" statements all over the place?

Theres an unwritten rule about showing respect.Ignoring it shows your ingnorance-Id not disrespect your grandparents and you dont do it to mine



Maybe it's because you're the one who instigated the Animal Warrior Brigade in this thread

Back to the tits thing?its a defenseless animal anyone can see that
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:boring:
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
Potentially, yes, however, there are people (and note, I have not at any point in this thread agreed or disagreed to this point) who do enjoy going on a hunt. Not particularly for the hunt itself, but it is a time when riders from different stables in the area meet and socialise. The meet is one of the most splendid things I have witnessed, beautiful horses, and very welcoming people.
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Why can't they meet under less barbaric circumstances? You may have already mentioned this but the thread is long so I can't be bothered to trawl through it but why were you there then? Were you commissioned to take photos or did you just happen to sell them?
 
Ivor Ballokov said:
Why can't they meet under less barbaric circumstances? You may have already mentioned this but the thread is long so I can't be bothered to trawl through it but why were you there then? Were you commissioned to take photos or did you just happen to sell them?
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I was originally "commissioned" (more a paid favour) by my Mum and the stables she keeps her horse at. After speaking with the head of the hunt, he asked if I could forward them on for their literature. I have also done a report on it for my Student Union paper.

And the continual use of emotive language throughout this thread is amusing me.
 
Wibble said:
vaccinating badgers would make far more sense and I believe there is a large scale trial going on in the UK now.
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Great, if it is in trial, that doesn't mean it will be a success. The process of vaccinating every badger in the UK will be hard and expensive.

Wibble said:
It is all over the UK press. It was a study in Wales I think. Google News it and it should be there. Culling disruptd the social system of Badgers and causes them to migrate thus spreading the disease.
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Not what I read in the Farmer's Guardian.
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
I was originally "commissioned" (more a paid favour) by my Mum and the stables she keeps her horse at. After speaking with the head of the hunt, he asked if I could forward them on for their literature. I have also done a report on it for my Student Union paper.

And the continual use of emotive language throughout this thread is amusing me.
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Would you attend again then if you weren't taking photo's?

It is a subject that does evoke emotional response so it isn't exactly suprising.
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
Great, if it is in trial, that doesn't mean it will be a success. The process of vaccinating every badger in the UK will be hard and expensive.

Given that 10 years of culling has been a huge failure it can't do worse. Badgers don't migrate that much if left alone so area by area vaccination has a very high chance of working I'd say as long as the practical difficulty of immunising a sufficient proportion of the population can be overcome.



Not what I read in the Farmer's Guardian.
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Funny that.

I always believe farmers interpretation of scientific data over the experts. ;)
 
Wibble said:
Funny that.

I always believe farmers interpretation of scientific data over the experts. ;)
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To put that point into some context, those that right for the FG are the ones involved in the collection of scientific data.

As for the vaccinations, yes, you are right, and if the trials prove a success, as per my previous posts, my stance on culling will alter. Until then, culling is the best method available.
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
I wouldn't rule out going to the meet again, there are some superb sites to see.
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This smacks of enjoying the spectacle of the hunt to me but I will give you the chance to explain.

Saints RL MUFC said:
Well, maybe you could vary the vocabulary a little bit?
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If the vocabulary is adequate there is no need to alter it and stop trying to side track the conversation.
 
Ivor Ballokov said:
This smacks of enjoying the spectacle of the hunt to me but I will give you the chance to explain.
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The meet and the hunt are not the same while involved in the same event. At the meet, you will get between 200-300 people who go to see the hunters off. There is a free buffet and a chance to discuss matters and meet new people.

Then the riders split, and go off to hunt, most of the meet who aren't riding will go home, some will follow to witness the hunt from nearby roads.


Ivor Ballokov said:
If the vocabulary is adequate there is no need to alter it and stop trying to side track the conversation.
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And the vocabulary is also tired. Get a thesaurus, there are lots of other words you can use.
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
The meet and the hunt are not the same while involved in the same event. At the meet, you will get between 200-300 people who go to see the hunters off. There is a free buffet and a chance to discuss matters and meet new people.

Then the riders split, and go off to hunt, most of the meet who aren't riding will go home, some will follow to witness the hunt from nearby roads.
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But it all surrounds the killing of the foxes like some kind of glorification. If fox hunting was banned would nobody in the countryside talk to each other? Of course not.

Saints RL MUFC said:
And the vocabulary is also tired. Get a thesaurus, there are lots of other words you can use.
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I think I will stick to cnut, cnut
 
Ivor Ballokov said:
But it all surrounds the killing of the foxes like some kind of glorification. If fox hunting was banned would nobody in the countryside talk to each other? Of course not.
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It is you that draws the association of people meeting up to go on killing foxes, half the people there aren't there for that reason at all.

Ivor Ballokov said:
I think I will stick to cnut, cnut
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Fair enough.
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
To put that point into some context, those that right for the FG are the ones involved in the collection of scientific data.
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helping collect the data means nothing regarding the analysis and interpretation of the data. The farmers disagree with the scientists because they don't want what the data shows to be true. Which it still is no matter hard they wish.
 
Unbelievable thread, why is this not in the CE anyway? ... I usually ignore threads in there on principle.

Gotta say that this Supah is a bit of a confrontational arsehole, there are better ways of arguing a point, like this Saints fella for example. Who started off like a bit of a cocky toff but now seems to have toned it down a bit, seems like he's holding his stance on principle really and spouting pro-hunting rhetoric but nothing more...

Saints, you say you are not into the hunt as a sport, you only take part for ... what is it again? anyway are there better things you could be doing with your time? Hunting seems like the sort of pass time that your not going to be involved in unless you are completely for it.
 
It was started in the entertainment forum. Since i think it's primary purpose is entertainment I'm not going to move it :)
 
lynchie said:
Ah hunting! Pissed blokes on horseback, starting at the pub in the morning, then going out with their ninja trained hounds that always, ALWAYS kill the fox within 2 seconds of getting to it (after a 10 minute chase that terrifies foxes to the point of heart failure), then back to the pub to talk about how terrible all the townies are for not understanding.

But if they didn't do it, the country would be covered in foxes, right? Except it isn't, and it wouldn't be, because eco-systems control themselves. But sensationalism and exaggeration sell car stickers.

And I've lived in the countryside for 15 years, and know plenty that are against hunting, including farmers. Justify it all you like, it's wrong, and you're a cnut.
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Just a tad disappointed that Saints didn't address this one... :(

Also, Suprah, you've clearly not realised that the thrust of this thread is about hunting foxes with dogs, as evidenced by your constant talk of shooting. If you can't even comprehend this fundamental difference, I don't think you should get too involved.
 
Wibble said:
helping collect the data means nothing regarding the analysis and interpretation of the data. The farmers disagree with the scientists because they don't want what the data shows to be true. Which it still is no matter hard they wish.
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But as you read, I (and most farmers I know) would welcome changes that don't affect what little money made, while benefiting rural wild life. Until these are proven to be effective, our methods will remain.
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
But as you read, I (and most farmers I know) would welcome changes that don't affect what little money made, while benefiting rural wild life. Until these are proven to be effective, our methods will remain.
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So why are farmers resisting results that show that culling badgers is ineffective and even counter productive? Because they think that killing a badger is a tangible action that surely must make a difference.

Except it doesn't. Not in a good way anyway.
 
I can't be bothered to read this thread, but can I just say that any form of blood sport is cruel, unnecessary and should be banned.

If the fox was replaced with a scented robot which the hunt could follow, do you think people would still go? Of course not. The psychology of people who enjoy seeing an animal ripped apart for fun is worrying.
 
This laughable law came about when my current MP Mike Foster, as a parliamentary newcomer won the Common's lucky draw to be given the first opportunity to present a Private Member's bill on any subject of his choosing. The Wild Mammals (Hunting with Dogs) Act was introduced in 1997 with a wide parliamentary majority, but only became law 7 years later after a very hard ride. The problem was and still is how do you police it? As our friend Saints says, its not illegal to flush foxes out with dogs - how the hell do you stop them from wanting to kill them? This is a typical half-arsed law designed to appease both parties and suits neither.

Either a total enforceable ban or get rid of it.

I regard foxes as vermin, and have no problem with disposing of them in the least cruel way. I have no personal interests in hunting myself, but like a number of members replying to this thread, have witnessed hunting on many occasions, which is not the same as witnessing the kill. I lived next to a farm through most of my childhood and teens in a strong fox-hunting community (mid-Cheshire).
 
Suprah™ said:
Stop being a bitch

He loves hunting, it's a hobby. Maybe when he kills an animal he doesn't associate it with all this moral and ethical garbage that you're throwing in his face



So this isn't just some stupid subjective point of view? You're basically calling him a tap-head without giving him any valuable, scientific, mathematic, or mesurable reason why hunting animals is bad. Lacing your reply with words liek "blood thirsty" and "sick" doesn't give it any credence either, you spanner.

How do you know how the animals feel when they are shot? Maybe they are shot in their head so that they feel no pain. The thing is that you have never hunted an animal, and have never experienced it, so you aren't in a position to be throwing all this sentimental nomenclature that makes you seem like some animal warrior.
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How old are you?
So you are of the opinion, that ethic and moral are garbage you little, sick dumbhead?
And before posting shit read through the thread, otherwise something very embarassing, like saying she hadnt hunted yet, happens again to you.
 
Suprah™ said:
Who says ethics are part of our social system. I've you've lived a life then you'll know that there is constant war, carnage, contempt for human and animal life (or blatant disregard for it), which is something that is present in a lot of humans. And what I am saying when I say "cycle", is that humans are constantly killing animals, and you probably eat them, as Elizabeth may, too, yet this all this arguing over hunting comes from some ethical or moral background which you two have developed over the graceful years of your lives, correct?

It's about the hypocrisy in all of you protesting about the hunting of animals, yet coming home to a big steak for dinner.

Hunting animals is normal, it is nothing that makes a person psychologically unkempt, and shouldn't be a reason for people to insult someone on an internet forum. It's got nothing to do with an "alpha beast", as you so eloquently put it, but with the fact that humans are born within a liberal nature, and so their actions, unless they can find a reason that is moral or ethical NOT to do them, are based upon animal instinct

It's like taking a child that was raised by baboons to go out into Colchester and be human. Thus when someone hunts for any animal, no ethical or moral barrier should prevent them from killing the animal, as it's perfectly normal
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To kill animals for fun isnt "perfectly normal", silly dumbheade, its the most sick thing that you can do.
I also eat meat, and i dont give a feck about it, because the animals were killed because humans arent naturally vegetarians and so they eat meat.


But to kill animals because of fun, makes you less worth than animals.
In nature, there is no single animal that kills for fun, but humans, with so much more in their feckin heads, do it? What the heck is up with you guys defending that opinion?
Go and kill someone who has a chance against you, some of your friends or something, i dont give a feck about that, really. But dont compensate your lack of selfconfidence with killing animals, that dont even have a chance.
 
Im not really bothered either way by hunting. I am dissapointed however that the pictures were taken down by a Mod who wasnt really acting objectively...
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Im not really bothered either way by hunting. I am dissapointed however that the pictures were taken down by a Mod who wasnt really acting objectively...
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I'm sure there are other places to go and look for hunting related pictures (this is a MUFC site isn't it?), he had a flicker account ffs, why not link to that?
 
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