As the manager.
How would you use Fellaini?
- Thread starter Walters_19_MuFc
- Start date
Would you agree Fellaini can also be caught out of position easily? I noticed there was a moment where he charged after the ball carrier and by doing so left a hole behind him which WBA exploited but it came to nothing. He just seems to get attracted to the play a bit too much. He can make good interceptions but seems to be exposed against better opposition and struggle when put under pressure.
It will be interesting to see if what you mention and what Brwned mention is highlighted more against the higher quality of liverpool this weekend
It depends on what kind of midfielder we're going to buy this summer. According to the transfer rumors, we are are looking to sign someone who is equally comfortable in a deep-lying playmaker position, where he can pick the ball up from the centre-halves, or in a slightly more advanced, more traditional central midfield spot. Kroos, Koke, Marchisio (players linked with us) fit the bill.
We don't seem to be looking for a defensive midfielder. I guess Moyes is going to use Fellaini and Carrick in the role in front of the back four, and when Carrick retires in 2-3 years time, he'll become our first choice in that position.
Imo he's not good enough to play in either position, right now. He is rather slow and he doesn't protect the back four enough to genuinely prosper as a defensive midfielder. His positioning and his passing are below average and he doesn't consistently close players down to be considered a good option as a box to box midfielder.
If this poll had been held at the start of the season, i believe most people would have picked the DM option. His physical presence and aerial ability and his 80% success rate in tackling seemed to be what we needed to strengthen our midfield defensively. The fact that we're struggling to create chances this season has made a lot of fans think that he could be more useful in an advanced role. But his goals and assists for Everton came when he played behind Jelavic.
It's not easy to answer this one. There is something too static about the Carrick-Fellaini duo in our midfield. I believe Fellaini would become a good defensive midfielder with a player like Kroos or Koke beside him.
We don't seem to be looking for a defensive midfielder. I guess Moyes is going to use Fellaini and Carrick in the role in front of the back four, and when Carrick retires in 2-3 years time, he'll become our first choice in that position.
Imo he's not good enough to play in either position, right now. He is rather slow and he doesn't protect the back four enough to genuinely prosper as a defensive midfielder. His positioning and his passing are below average and he doesn't consistently close players down to be considered a good option as a box to box midfielder.
If this poll had been held at the start of the season, i believe most people would have picked the DM option. His physical presence and aerial ability and his 80% success rate in tackling seemed to be what we needed to strengthen our midfield defensively. The fact that we're struggling to create chances this season has made a lot of fans think that he could be more useful in an advanced role. But his goals and assists for Everton came when he played behind Jelavic.
It's not easy to answer this one. There is something too static about the Carrick-Fellaini duo in our midfield. I believe Fellaini would become a good defensive midfielder with a player like Kroos or Koke beside him.
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I think Fellaini's attacking contribution at united shouldn't be too elusive - we put in lots of crosses and he's absolutely massive
It depends imo on Liverpool's pressure, our spacing and the flow of the game
@TheRedDevil'sAdvocate the issue with Carrick and Fellaini is there's still a relative lack of mobility,offensive thrust and creativity with this duo. Carrick can play some creative passes but he is tasked with other responsibilities that we dont really see this side of his game. In the event Carrick, Fellaini are put under pressure, either would most likely concede possession rather than beat the pressure on the dribble.
Thats the one thing we lack in our CM, a player who can beat a man on the dribble and does so in each game. We are relying on passing patterns to get player overloads but dont have the variety of centrally beating a man with dribbling to create overloads. So we can be very predictable in the center of the pitch.
aye but even the passing patterns dont seem to be helping in terms of overloads or asserting any control in midfield.
Had to choose box to box because its closer to the truth but I dont want to see him in either of the roles.
As a DM, I dont think he has the defensive nous to play the role. Doesnt seem to track runners well and positionally isnt great. Wouldnt want him to be the man to screen the back 4.
As a box to box mid, I dont think he has the engine to perform the role. Not in terms of stamina but the pace and agility to go up and down effectively.
What I want to see is him being a supporting mid of sorts. Helping out in both phases but just being there to spread the ball to attackers further forward and holding his place behind the front 4 on most occasions while going further forward when we are up against weeker opposition.
As a DM, I dont think he has the defensive nous to play the role. Doesnt seem to track runners well and positionally isnt great. Wouldnt want him to be the man to screen the back 4.
As a box to box mid, I dont think he has the engine to perform the role. Not in terms of stamina but the pace and agility to go up and down effectively.
What I want to see is him being a supporting mid of sorts. Helping out in both phases but just being there to spread the ball to attackers further forward and holding his place behind the front 4 on most occasions while going further forward when we are up against weeker opposition.
Does it have to be one or the other ? He's clearly got attributes to be good at both.
As some have said (particularly Brwned), Fellaini doesn't demonstrate to me that he can read the game well, block of passing lanes, slow down opposition attacks, and cover up gaps. Ultimately, he's not that great at reading the game, defensively. More often than not, when he's back defending, more often than not, he gets out of position and leaves up gaps that seems like his partner should cover. This shows me that Fellaini isn't a defensive midfielder, at all. First and foremost, defensive midfielders must be able to close down open gaps and spaces. Fellaini fails at that often (not all the time, though). Second, they must be able to block passing options (something Fellaini fails in very often). Third, they must slow down opposition counter-attacks and allow the team to regroup (does this by fouling the opposition players, which is very risky). Ultimately, he needs to read the opposition and understand what they are going to do, which Fellaini ultimately fails in.
On the plus side, he's great at winning the ball, quickly, and unsettling the ball-holder. He's very strong, physically, and has excellent stamina. He's great at keeping the ball under pressure by using his strength and balance. He's able to pop up, everywhere, and link up with players out wide and in the middle. His short passing is neat and allows for quick interplays with the wide and central players. His physical strength makes it tough for the opposition to deal with him. Plus, he very good in the air, so he's a threat at set pieces and also a third man (i.e. a late runner into the box).
Based on my assessment, he's best as a box-to-box midfielder, currently. Unless he instills some discipline into his game, he'll never be a capable defensive midfielder. Plus, why hinder his goalscoring and link-up ability by keeping him deep? Also, he's a great complement to a two-striker system as he's very good at coming into those gaps that defenders leave when marking the two strikers in the box.
Even then, he'll still need to improve his defensive discipline in order to be a great box-to-box midfielder. With Carrick unable to cover as much ground as he used to and Cleverley not suited to the more defensive role, Fellaini can't get away with his defending. He'll need someone like Fletcher to complement him from the deep if he can recover. Otherwise, he'll need a new central midfielder who's better, defensively, than he is.
On the plus side, he's great at winning the ball, quickly, and unsettling the ball-holder. He's very strong, physically, and has excellent stamina. He's great at keeping the ball under pressure by using his strength and balance. He's able to pop up, everywhere, and link up with players out wide and in the middle. His short passing is neat and allows for quick interplays with the wide and central players. His physical strength makes it tough for the opposition to deal with him. Plus, he very good in the air, so he's a threat at set pieces and also a third man (i.e. a late runner into the box).
Based on my assessment, he's best as a box-to-box midfielder, currently. Unless he instills some discipline into his game, he'll never be a capable defensive midfielder. Plus, why hinder his goalscoring and link-up ability by keeping him deep? Also, he's a great complement to a two-striker system as he's very good at coming into those gaps that defenders leave when marking the two strikers in the box.
Even then, he'll still need to improve his defensive discipline in order to be a great box-to-box midfielder. With Carrick unable to cover as much ground as he used to and Cleverley not suited to the more defensive role, Fellaini can't get away with his defending. He'll need someone like Fletcher to complement him from the deep if he can recover. Otherwise, he'll need a new central midfielder who's better, defensively, than he is.
That's what I should have said indeed.
Im not trying to be argumentative. There is another side to all of this and it comes down to what the coaches are asking him to do. He may be following instructions to run certain lines or to defend on the inside or outside of an attacker etc.
So when you watch Busquets play he is constantly stood in the right position all game long. He's always available in space for a pass out from the centre back and always available for a pass from Xavi/Iniesta/Fabregas whenever they need to move the ball back to get out of pressure and he moves the ball on without ever losing possession because he's seen his next pass 5 seconds before he's had to play it. Again none of this is stuff Fellaini does on a football pitch. When he gets the ball he either dwindles on it while he looks for a man in space or he plays to ball to whoever's in his line of sight when he receives the ball. Where as Busquets already knows where all the space is on the pitch so he's makes far better use of the ball in possession.
Defensively Busquets intercepts a lot because he has great positioning but he doesn't just stand in the holding role, he covers the full backs when they get forward and drops into centre back at time as well. Again, I feel like when Fellaini is in that role he just stands rooted to the spot 10 yards ahead of the centre back waiting for stray balls and even then he still seems to get caught out and not be in the right place with regularity. We've all watched a hell of a lot of 90 minutes of Busquets and I can't think of a single occasion where I've thought Busquets has been caught out of position here.
Because of his poor positioning Fellaini is always having to foul people in dangerous positions or just giving cheap free kicks away because he's been done. Busuqets loves a tactical foul sure but it's a rare occassion he has to give one away in a position where you could actually do anything with the free kick.
None of this stuff is physical ability, even though obviously Busquets has better technique. I don't think he's any faster than Fellaini or stronger. The only thing he has on Fellaini really is his intelligence, but it's so crucial to the role of holding midfielder that it means Busquets is the best holding midfielder in the world and we're having a debate about whether Fellaini can even play there at all.
Draught excluder for me.
Because that's not his job, his job is to harry the ball carrier and recover possession quickly. The last thing we need is two 'cover the gaps'/intercepting players at the base of our midfield, considering how depressingly passive it has been at times this year. We need to pair Carrick up with a presser, otherwise we'll be constantly locked in two banks of four getting pushed further and further back, as has been the case so often.
Don't you think that a player tackle because he's positioning is a bit meah?
No...? Someone opposition players have the ball and dribble. If they don't play an intercept-able pass, how exactly would you suggest the defending team recovers the ball, magic?
Anticipating the player is key especially since many players are faster than the DMs. Once a quicker player gets the ball then there's that split of a second before he either pass the ball or he outruns the defensive minded player. Under such circumtances a player can either bully the player out of the ball (a bit risky in terms of fouling, red cards etc) or wait the right moment he passes the ball to rob it away from him (risky if he doesn't pass the ball) or else tackle (very risky as it may easily result in fouls, red cards etc). The best option is to anticipate the player, followed by robbing him from the ball, bully the player from it and finally tackling. No wonder why many modern defenders are more renowned for their anticipation and football brain rather than their tackling (Rio, Maldini etc) + SAF has avoided bringing in an enforcer in the past few years.
I always felt that tackling should be a last resort thing especially with recent rules were tackling is frowned apart and can easily bring the tackler to see red.
That's the problem with stats ie they give you a thwarted picture of things. For example one should ask why Fellaini has a high passing rate. Isn't it because he's a great passer (ex like Scholes, Zidane etc) or is it because he play safe most of the time by passing it to his closest companion?.
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Here's Fellaini in a film role supporting Dick van Dyke and his 'orrible cockney accent.
jimi hendrix impersonator.
Nobody, but nobody can impersonate Jimi Hendrix.
As the microphone for stadium announcement.
As a back up defensive midfielder. He's not good enough to start anywhere at united, unless we are settling to be a mid table tema now. He's just average in most things, not excelling in anything. Like others have said, poor positioning, he always seems a bit lost and has to run around a lot to get back into position, he's not very good on the ball and is really slow and clumsy, he's not great at tackling and always gives away silly free kicks.
If we used him as a box to box then we'd have the most bland midfield because we'd need to have a more defensive partner next to him rather then have a proper creative player in there. That's why we need both a defensive midfielder, and a creative one who is more capable of dictating tempo and running with the ball.
If we used him as a box to box then we'd have the most bland midfield because we'd need to have a more defensive partner next to him rather then have a proper creative player in there. That's why we need both a defensive midfielder, and a creative one who is more capable of dictating tempo and running with the ball.
you say that but you haven't heard his purple rain.
Don't you mean Purple Haze?
that was by prince.
Some predictable, yet hilarious replies in this thread 
Box to box. He has great body mass and has delicious touches on the ball as he has shown in the last game. Couple those attributes with the surging runs he has in him and you have a game changer.
There is more where that came from and he will prove me right in backing this signing last summer when all of redcafe were disgusted.
There is more where that came from and he will prove me right in backing this signing last summer when all of redcafe were disgusted.
It won't erase the past though, so how it can it make you right? Him being poor up until now is a fact, I appreciate there are mitigating circumstances, but overall, it is what it is.
I'd try to turn him into the next Frank Lampard
Club mascot
I know you're in the ''give him 5 matches in a shit team managed by a nothing manager to decide whether he is right for United'' brigade, but I prefer to make predictions based on the long term. Fellaini will become a crucial entity in our squad and has already started showing signs of it.
Did you not say you would ignore me? Stop following me as well.
Clearly you don't "know" that, as you are wrong, horribly so as well. I'm not quite sure why you are trying to be condescending when some of the things you suggest make me wonder if you manage to dress yourself properly. I said a while ago after noticing various silly posts that I wouldn't look out for you, quoting you once in months, isn't "following", but that's ok.
Anyway, Your prediction of him being a good signing will still not be 100% correct. Think of it this way, if he's here for 4 seasons, and has 4 good season's, he was a 100% good buy. However, the reality is his first season has been poor, due to a number of reasons, so even if it he turned it around, for what he cost, I can't imagine he'll ever confirm your theory of being a great signing. Perhaps it will come closer to your original prediction though if he starts putting in some really good performances, I hope you're right, I just don't think he'll ever be considered a "good" signing for the money/time etc. NOTE: that doesn't mean I don't think he will be handy or come into some good form, merely that it wouldn't warrant a club record signing.
I dont agree that it is a fact at all, it is only your opinion - as far as I can see he had only a couple of poor games, a couple of average ones (where he did an adequate defensive job but was lacking on the ball) and then I count at least 4 games (WBA, Palace, Everton, Sociedad) where he has done well.
There was a ridiculous amount of negativity about his performances a couple of months ago with people blaming him for all sorts of things that werent his fault in the slightest - Im glad to see a lot more positivity in general but I suppose there will always be a few who refuse to give him a fair chance because they never wanted him in the first place
So Fellaini could still be 87.512 % worth of a great signing if he plays like Roy Keane from now till the end of his career?
Your theory is an eyesore and embarrassing... no offense.
And by following, I meant that you have used the follow option on redcafe and I see you in that list. Unfollow me tout de suite.
Imperiously put.
That's great, but it's not relative, a few good, a few bad and a few ok don't equate to a club record signing, if he cost 10m, I would be singing his praises.
I think it's your inability to understand, or perhaps mine to explain clear enough... your % thing is rubbish, I was saying more that if he will be judged over all seasons, a club record signing who has had a few good, a few ok and few poor signings in his first season, I do see as nearly impossible for him ever to become a GREAT signing now. He should have done more for the amount he cost, simple.
Something I clicked ages when I noticed your first few WUM posts, however I don't think I'm against any rules to follow someone, take it as a compliment, as I haven't been "following" you or "picking on you in particular", so it shouldn't make a difference.