Stop embarrassing yourself.. even Muslims have been participating in this thread. I doubt they would have if it was as Islamophobic as you think it is. The fact is a good number of people do link these terrorists directly with Islam, so it is a legitimate question to explore. Repressing such debates only makes thing worse.
How peaceful is Islam?
- Thread starter Momochiru
- Start date
haha..its fine..i know its tricky
You can condemn ISIS, without blaming the whole of Islam. You can condemn particular problematic, regressive interpretations of Islam, and still acknowledge many other interpretations that have millions of other Muslims living ordinary, peaceful lives like yourself.
when you write - is islam peaceful- you are in a way leaving room for the assertion that islam inherently is not peaceful...
its fine..you can have your little discussion peacefully ive said my piece
Yes... and that's what we're debating in this thread if you hadn't noticed. The one that you're attempting to shut down.
you are debating the possibility that islam is inherently violent.?
That's as silly as suggesting its peaceful.
People are contributing their thoughts and opinions on the subject 'how peaceful is Islam?'. As @crappycraperson and @Raoul have said it's a legitimate question to explore. There may be some people who do think Islam is inherently violent and will give their reasons for thinking so, but we'll never know if there are people that hold that view, if as soon as the question is asked any discussion is stopped straight away.
that was a question..i didnt suggest anything. by your statement i gather you think islam is inherently not peaceful? im asking.
as you can see that there are people (unitedinred) who do think islam is inherently violent. if that isnt being bigoted i dont know what is. its surprising that the caf would allow such bigotry.
Maybe going slightly off topic here but I think maybe people are forgetting here that this conflict runs just a little bit deeper than merely being a religious conflict. To reduce the issues of ISIS and Jihadi movements at the moment to being about the faith of Islam is a game of narrowing the narrative.
On the one hand it is true to say that there is a complex and dangerous idealogoy of 'revivalist Islam' which has grown since the 1970s and is ardently anti-western and can be best compared to the puritanical moevent of Christianity. Unfortunatelty the territories where this regressive idealogy (from my perspective) took hold happened to also become finincaially affluent ie Saudi Arabia. The Saudis actually pumped a lot of petrodollars into the building of mosques and the supporting of conservative Muslim organisations globally. Essentially this minority strain of Islamic thinking and philosophy become propogated by a financial stimulus. I suppose you could compare it to any minority Christian denomination being able to expand its interpretations through financial implements.
Now of course Wahabism or Salafism has grown over the course of the last few years on the back of the constant interventions in the gulf, it has leeched off of the turmoil in Syria and Iraq and has grown into a very disturbing and public strain of Islam which has become very visible to the West. We must remember that this is a new age of media, that war atrocities are recored by the perpatrators and beamed to the eyes of the sheltered. We would be wrong to assume the babarity of these Jihadis is any worse than actions of the SS or indeed Serbs or Bosnians in the 1990s. The problem is that we are able to view it so readily and it is disturbing and it grows a further feeling of 'otherness'. But one needs to be aware that this is par for the course in a region so blighted by sectarianism and conflict, this is demonstrated throughout human history.
I think there is such a great number of factors which are creating the horrors we see today. But we must be very careful to avoid looking at this as a reflection on the majority. It would be like looking at the actions of the Westboro baptist church and feeling it as reflective of Christianity.
I say all of this, and yet I am patently aware that the problem is indeed growing, but partly it is growing because we are cultivating it. The schisms futher created by the acts of war by Jihadi groups are causing the spread of these extreme idealogies. By fighting back we are also creating more supporters. The scenario is remnisicent of the surge in Irish Repulican paramilitary enrollment after Bloody Sunday.
We sit at a very dangerous moment in modenrity. Whereby this idelaogy is like a parasite we are unsure how to kill, and we are potentially adding to its strength with our current actions.
On the one hand it is true to say that there is a complex and dangerous idealogoy of 'revivalist Islam' which has grown since the 1970s and is ardently anti-western and can be best compared to the puritanical moevent of Christianity. Unfortunatelty the territories where this regressive idealogy (from my perspective) took hold happened to also become finincaially affluent ie Saudi Arabia. The Saudis actually pumped a lot of petrodollars into the building of mosques and the supporting of conservative Muslim organisations globally. Essentially this minority strain of Islamic thinking and philosophy become propogated by a financial stimulus. I suppose you could compare it to any minority Christian denomination being able to expand its interpretations through financial implements.
Now of course Wahabism or Salafism has grown over the course of the last few years on the back of the constant interventions in the gulf, it has leeched off of the turmoil in Syria and Iraq and has grown into a very disturbing and public strain of Islam which has become very visible to the West. We must remember that this is a new age of media, that war atrocities are recored by the perpatrators and beamed to the eyes of the sheltered. We would be wrong to assume the babarity of these Jihadis is any worse than actions of the SS or indeed Serbs or Bosnians in the 1990s. The problem is that we are able to view it so readily and it is disturbing and it grows a further feeling of 'otherness'. But one needs to be aware that this is par for the course in a region so blighted by sectarianism and conflict, this is demonstrated throughout human history.
I think there is such a great number of factors which are creating the horrors we see today. But we must be very careful to avoid looking at this as a reflection on the majority. It would be like looking at the actions of the Westboro baptist church and feeling it as reflective of Christianity.
I say all of this, and yet I am patently aware that the problem is indeed growing, but partly it is growing because we are cultivating it. The schisms futher created by the acts of war by Jihadi groups are causing the spread of these extreme idealogies. By fighting back we are also creating more supporters. The scenario is remnisicent of the surge in Irish Repulican paramilitary enrollment after Bloody Sunday.
We sit at a very dangerous moment in modenrity. Whereby this idelaogy is like a parasite we are unsure how to kill, and we are potentially adding to its strength with our current actions.
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I don't think it's peaceful, no. I don't think any religion is peaceful by nature. Followers ? Well yes, there are human beings, each interpreting the teachings differently. Some are peaceful, some are not and varying degrees in between.
As I've already mentioned, you can report posts you feel are offensive and/or break the rules of this forum. I'm sure the staff here will look at the material posted and will act accordingly by deleting posts and banning people should they feel they need to. Remember though, just because you personally think a viewpoint is bigoted or are offended by something a poster has said it doesn't necessarily mean that action will be taken.
if the religion is violent then how can the people following it be peaceful. there are many sects of islam - would you mind going through sufism and finding me something inherently violent?
im aware of that. but arent we encouraging such bigotry by discussing a topic in THIS way? trying to debate if islam is inherently violent or not isnt at all constructive imo.
Eh?
You do know its really not that simple. Peaceful or violent? Were jot talking about a person here, we are talking about an idea, a belief. Frankly it can be just about whatever you want, if you have the influence, you can make your beliefs the primary form of that particular religion.
Anyway, the fact Islam claims to be the religion of peace sort of suggests that according to Islam, other religions are violent. Certainly inferior, perhaps uncivilised.
Please, for the love of Allah, Jesus, Moses and Thor, use a fecking capital letter once in a while!
If I am being objective trying to put an historians hat on, I feel that story to be little more than just that, a story. With so much of that history disputed and how far back in time these events occurred, that the Sunni's have the finer points of that event, events that read like they are scripted for a film with noble heroes embroiled in circumstantial tragedies, I am hugely sceptical of the accuracy there within.
On the flip side, those teachings don't appear to promote violence and seem benign enough. They just don't feel credible to me in an historical context.
Sufism isn't a doctrine, it's a spiritual way of fulfilling an adherent's relationship with God. There are, and have been throughout history, Sufis who have believed Islam sanctions violence to one degree or another in certain situations.
No, I don't agree. By having an open debate, it gives people a chance to table their views on a subject no matter how abhorrent or offensive other people find them. We can discuss what people think and analyse the merits of each point using critical thinking. Blocking any such dialogue doesn't allow people to expand their knowledge and closes them off from exploring different possibilities to draw a conclusion and shape their view. So long as the debate remains civil and stays within the rules I can't see what the problem is.
you sound like you know nothing about islam. theres no point discussing anything with you. id be wasting my time. enjoy hating.
sufism is still a school of thought which is part of islam..even though its more a way of living rather than a separate sect.
that way no one should be be banned for anything since its just an opinion and it shouldnt matter if it offends people.
What about Wahhabism. Surely they believe in the use of violence. Wasn't Saudi Arabia founded by Wahhabi Muslims through bloodshed?
There are plenty of posters here who think most if not all religions are inherently violent.
Probably not, though you never know. Liberal, passive groups have been violent in the past.
According to some religions, I'm going to burn forever in hell. That's fairly violent.
No, if the rules of the forum are broken then people can be banned and it's up to the staff to decide what is and what is not acceptable.
and plenty who think islam is to blame for ISIS as well. people here view things in black and white. its sad to see.
Islam is indoctrinated into children through the threat of the 'hellfire'. I read an interview with Yusuf Islam in Q Magazine and he was asked his greatest fear, his answer was two words 'the hellfire', it works on some adults too it seems.
unless the staff themselves dont find something offensive even though it is. they are human beings too with their own biases
Come on man thats typical. Not sure how you made the leap to me hating but cool.
Never, ever point out the hypocrisy of it all.
Imagine being a small child in 200ad and being told you will burn and suffer in a place of pure evil if you sin. Fear would be the natural feeling here.
You mean even though it is to you, different people find different things offensive. You're right that they're humans and have will be biased sometimes, but the rules are set out before you sign up and agree to follow them.
Who is to blame for Isis? In your view. Are you going to say the US, UK and Israel?
Because that would be wrong too.
The US have a huge hand in their creation. It's undeniable, and it's been discussed to death here.
The US and UK did have a big hand in it. Saudi Arabia and some of the other rich oil states too
I don't think I have seen one post on here which suggested that ISIS was solely due to Islam. There were some bigoted or hateful posts against Muslims in general by a couple of posters when the Paris news broke, and they were banned. People have generally debated whether Islamic history or texts in Quran have something to do with ISIS or not. This thread is a spin-off the same debate since some people claim that Islam has nothing to do with ISIS given violence is supposed to be a no-no in Islam according to them. A view challenged by others.
They played a part. Not a decisive one nor an intentional one.
Saudi Arabia are the primary issue in this. Followed by Iran and other states funding extremists and their own warped ideology.
If this discussion is on religion being inherently violent then why is the topic only about islam
if people are inherently violent then yes theres reason to believe that religion which is written by humans can be violent as well..thats sound logic
but linking ISIS only to islam isnt sound logic. lets get real - this discussion has started because of ISIS - so lets not beat around the bush and talk about ISIS. Why drag islam into it. Buddhist terrorism also exists in myannmar. Is Buddhism a violent religion? no. clearly this has to do with humans being violent and a myriad of other reasons such as geo political reasons, western influence etc. a privileged few will always manipulate the many uneducated jobless using any motivation and means necessary. religion is a tool not a root casue
if people are inherently violent then yes theres reason to believe that religion which is written by humans can be violent as well..thats sound logic
but linking ISIS only to islam isnt sound logic. lets get real - this discussion has started because of ISIS - so lets not beat around the bush and talk about ISIS. Why drag islam into it. Buddhist terrorism also exists in myannmar. Is Buddhism a violent religion? no. clearly this has to do with humans being violent and a myriad of other reasons such as geo political reasons, western influence etc. a privileged few will always manipulate the many uneducated jobless using any motivation and means necessary. religion is a tool not a root casue
So you don't think the US/UK invasion of Iraq and the way they left the country had a decisive part in the rise of isis?
No - they had the biggest part to play in this. Blaming KSA + others is shifting the truth. IS have US weapons, US armoury, and were physically brought together by US prisons in Iraq.
Going further, not a single IS hierarchy member (to my knowledge) is from KSA.
just like islam the rules are open to interpretation and i dont like the way they are being interpreted right now. simple. im surprised im alone.
Hmmmm.