I’m gonna go all out on yes. We need to reduce the average of the team. There are several players around the same age who could possibly all start losing a bit of their game at the same time.
Good post. Expectations are killing us@sullydnl good thread.
I remember when Alex Ferguson left I was hoping beyond hope we didn't start making the same mistakes AC Milan did in the 90's/00's. That is to say, that once their star faded a bit, instead of trying to go after hungry young players they instead bought way too many aging star players to keep their fans happy. Of course Kaka changed that but that's part of the overall point I think.
It's sort of a way of chasing your losses - the reason we signed Zlatan, Cristiano, and Sanchez wasn't -exactly- to improve our squad, though I'm sure the management that signed them thought they might. It was partly a dearth of ideas, resources, and a desperate need to prove that we are still a "big club" to the fans and get excitement generated - when the reality is that big players come with huge paychecks and similarly sized ego's, and no longer feel the need to improve within a team - they've done it already, what do THEY have to prove after all?
And our transfer strategy ironically in Ole's first season with Amad and Pellestri is probably the best way forward - and not the one after with Ronaldo and Varane. We need to be patient and build a real team from the ground up again, but the fans especially on Redcafe won't accept that as a strategy long term - see the underwhelmed responses to the signings above compared with Ronaldo etc. So we have to play a sort of careful balance in order to appease the fans AND move forward.
I’m gonna go all out on yes. We need to reduce the average of the team. There are several players around the same age who could possibly all start losing a bit of their game at the same time.
Yes but all key positions - Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen & you could argue DeGea is declining as he gets older not maturing in the same way VDS didThe average age of our team is around the middle of the league. People are acting as if we have an old when we don't. The average age of United in 2023 is 26-something years old.
Marcus Rashford | 25 years (October 31, 1997) |
Alejandro Garnacho | 18 years (July 1, 2004) |
Casemiro | 31 years (February 23, 1992) |
Harry Maguire | 30 years (March 5, 1993) |
Antony | 23 years (February 24, 2000) |
Wout Weghorst | 30 years (August 7, 1992) |
Bruno Fernandes | 28 years (September 8, 1994) |
Lisandro Martínez | 25 years (January 18, 1998) |
Marcel Sabitzer | 29 years (March 17, 1994) |
Jadon Sancho | 23 years (March 25, 2000) |
David de Gea | 32 years (November 7, 1990) |
Raphaël Varane | 30 years (April 25, 1993) |
Christian Eriksen | 31 years (February 14, 1992) |
Anthony Martial | 27 years (December 5, 1995) |
Luke Shaw | 27 years (July 12, 1995) |
Scott McTominay | 26 years (December 8, 1996) |
Aaron Wan-Bissaka | 25 years (November 26, 1997) |
Phil Jones | 31 years (February 21, 1992) |
Facundo Pellistri | 21 years (December 20, 2001) |
Diogo Dalot | 24 years (March 18, 1999) |
Tyrell Malacia | 23 years (August 17, 1999) |
Victor Lindelöf | 28 years (July 17, 1994) |
Anthony Elanga | 21 years (April 27, 2002) |
Donny van de Beek | 26 years (April 18, 1997) |
Zidane Iqbal | 20 years (April 27, 2003) |
Fred | 30 years (March 5, 1993) |
Kobbie Mainoo | 18 years (April 19, 2005) |
Jack Butland | 30 years (March 10, 1993) |
Brandon Williams | 22 years (September 3, 2000) |
Tom Heaton | 37 years (April 15, 1986) |
Marc Jurado | 19 years (April 13, 2004) |
Nathan Bishop | 23 years (October 15, 1999) |
Radek Vítek | 19 years (October 24, 2003) |
Yes but all key positions - Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen & you could argue DeGea is declining as he gets older not maturing in the same way VDS did
not against the odd one brought in but definitely need to keep it in the back of our minds
Looking at Casemiro-Eriksen, they are both 32 in February. It’s crucial we get younger legs in there
Unless we're going out an limb to renew Fred, Phil Jones, Heaton, and Weghorst, Sabitzer, Butland. We don't really have that aging a squad. Maguire is likely to leaving. We could see our team average age dropped despite players are an year older.For context;
When the new season kicks off a few of them will be a year older
Marcus Rashford 25 years (October 31, 1997) Alejandro Garnacho 18 years (July 1, 2004) Casemiro 31 years (February 23, 1992)
Harry Maguire 30 years (March 5, 1993) Antony 23 years (February 24, 2000) Wout Weghorst 30 years (August 7, 1992) Bruno Fernandes 28 years (September 8, 1994) Lisandro Martínez 25 years (January 18, 1998) Marcel Sabitzer 29 years (March 17, 1994) Jadon Sancho 23 years (March 25, 2000) David de Gea 32 years (November 7, 1990) Raphaël Varane 30 years (April 25, 1993) Christian Eriksen 31 years (February 14, 1992) Anthony Martial 27 years (December 5, 1995) Luke Shaw 27 years (July 12, 1995) Scott McTominay 26 years (December 8, 1996) Aaron Wan-Bissaka 25 years (November 26, 1997) Phil Jones 31 years (February 21, 1992) Facundo Pellistri 21 years (December 20, 2001) Diogo Dalot 24 years (March 18, 1999) Tyrell Malacia 23 years (August 17, 1999) Victor Lindelöf 28 years (July 17, 1994) Anthony Elanga 21 years (April 27, 2002) Donny van de Beek 26 years (April 18, 1997) Zidane Iqbal 20 years (April 27, 2003) Fred 30 years (March 5, 1993) Kobbie Mainoo 18 years (April 19, 2005) Jack Butland 30 years (March 10, 1993) Brandon Williams 22 years (September 3, 2000) Tom Heaton 37 years (April 15, 1986) Marc Jurado 19 years (April 13, 2004) Nathan Bishop 23 years (October 15, 1999) Radek Vítek 19 years (October 24, 2003)
Very important. If you want to build a side that can contend for a decade or more, the entire spine of the team has to be young. The greatest sides (I mean sides that contended and won for 5+ years) all had young cores.
Whilst what you’re saying about the squad is true, it’s not addressing Varane, Casemiro Eriksen all key positionsUnless we're going out an limb to renew Fred, Phil Jones, Heaton, and Weghorst, Sabitzer, Butland. We don't really have that aging a squad. Maguire is likely to leaving. We could see our team average age dropped despite players are an year older.
Replacing DDG has been a topic for several years now. Eriksen should have been a rotation option, that maybe addressed in coming window. Really if this squad looks aging, then we may as well stop buying players and only use academy players.
So you want everyone in starting line up to be under 30 then?Whilst what you’re saying about the squad is true, it’s not addressing Varane, Casemiro Eriksen all key positions
So you want everyone in starting line up to be under 30 then?
That leaves 2 positions in starting line up. That's the same as Man City freaking out about Kyle Walker and KDB, Gundogan, all started against Real Madrid. As I said Eriksen should only be a rotation option, and may as well. For a team behind in rebuild, age wise, we have a decent balance.
Everyone are aware of their age when they're signed. We didn't sign them for one season (or two in Varane case). We would try to get most out of their contract length, which if every game run well with recruitment should be enough time to have succession plan for them.
Where did I say that? Does it not concern anyone that the middle of our team are literally the same age (different by 2 weeks), which means that unless we start planning now, there will be a huge hole to fill in 2 years at bestSo you want everyone in starting line up to be under 30 then?
That leaves 2 positions in starting line up. That's the same as Man City freaking out about Kyle Walker and KDB, Gundogan, all started against Real Madrid. As I said Eriksen should only be a rotation option, and may as well. For a team behind in rebuild, age wise, we have a decent balance.
Everyone are aware of the mentioned players' age when they're signed. We didn't sign them for one season (or two in Varane case). We would try to get most out of their contract length, which if everything run well with recruitment there should be enough time to have succession plan for them.
2 of those in modric and Pirlo probably saved a year or 2 on their careers by playing in less physically demanding leaguesAnd those succession plan could easily include players that are around 28-30 years old. People forget that the likes of Modric, Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, Fernandinho and I don't know who else were brought around those ages to have great careers.
Where did I say that? Does it not concern anyone that the middle of our team are literally the same age (different by 2 weeks), which means that unless we start planning now, there will be a huge hole to fill in 2 years at best
2 of those in modric and Pirlo probably saved a year or 2 on their careers by playing in less physically demanding leagues
You have been implying it all along, and here you just double down on it.Where did I say that? Does it not concern anyone that the middle of our team are literally the same age (different by 2 weeks), which means that unless we start planning now, there will be a huge hole to fill in 2 years at best
No it’s not but as they get older they will decline quicker than those playing in Spain for exampleOkay but is the PL too demanding for 30 years old players?
Personally, I’d make an exception for a CF, but I don’t think I’d throw another ‘older’ player into the midfield conundrumI see your point but it's not really the topic. We should plan and that plan can include "older" players.
Was reading this article earlier which looked at the make-up of the last 10 Champions League finalists' starting elevens. It notes that:
- The average player joined their team for €30.6 million at 22.8 years of age.
- More than 80% of the players who started the Champions League final were acquired by their clubs before their 27th birthday.
- Only two players were acquired in their 30s, namely Keylor Navas and Thiago Silva.
- Of the forwards, only two were signed over the age of 25. Namely Di Maria and Mahrez, both signed at 27.
This got me thinking about City's transfer business over the period they've been dominating the league. And again there we see signings heavily focused towards younger players.
Since Guardiola arrived they've made two significants signings aged 29 or older, namely Nolito and Bravo. Whereas we've made six, namely Casemiro, Eriksen, Ronaldo, Sanchez, Ibra and Cavani. So not only more signings in that age bracket, but much more prominent and costly signings.
And notably of those six signings four were forwards, the one position no CL finalist team over the last half decade has started a player bought after the age of 27. With our reported main target this summer again being a 30 year old striker reported to cost us somewhere between £80-100m.
With all of that in minds, how important do you think the actual age of the players we buy from now on is? Should we be operating in line with these sides and avoid signing ageing players, especially for big money? Or is it a non-issue?
No it’s not but as they get older they will decline quicker than those playing in Spain for example
In general success is built and sustained on players aged between 22-25. So most successful sides sign in that age bracket. It keeps the balance between young and hungry, peaked and experiencedWas reading this article earlier which looked at the make-up of the last 10 Champions League finalists' starting elevens. It notes that:
- The average player joined their team for €30.6 million at 22.8 years of age.
- More than 80% of the players who started the Champions League final were acquired by their clubs before their 27th birthday.
- Only two players were acquired in their 30s, namely Keylor Navas and Thiago Silva.
- Of the forwards, only two were signed over the age of 25. Namely Di Maria and Mahrez, both signed at 27.
This got me thinking about City's transfer business over the period they've been dominating the league. And again there we see signings heavily focused towards younger players.
Since Guardiola arrived they've made two significants signings aged 29 or older, namely Nolito and Bravo. Whereas we've made six, namely Casemiro, Eriksen, Ronaldo, Sanchez, Ibra and Cavani. So not only more signings in that age bracket, but much more prominent and costly signings.
And notably of those six signings four were forwards, the one position no CL finalist team over the last half decade has started a player bought after the age of 27. With our reported main target this summer again being a 30 year old striker reported to cost us somewhere between £80-100m.
With all of that in minds, how important do you think the actual age of the players we buy from now on is? Should we be operating in line with these sides and avoid signing ageing players, especially for big money? Or is it a non-issue?
You need a blend always. Our attack is way too young, so by that logic an experienced head like Kane makes sense. Midfield is way too old, need younger guys to balance it and have natural successors. Defence is a good blend though
Also, one of the main arguments I've seen in favour of signing the older Kane over younger players is that "the likes of Casemiro and Varane won't be at their peak for that much longer, we can't afford to wait another few years".
Which in itself points to an issue of targeting players in that Varane/Casemiro age bracket. It's not a good thing if the relatively short shelf life of key signings prompts you to feel we need to think shorter term about further key signings.
Is that actually the main argument? I would assume that the main argument is that we need to improve our striking options and that a world class player like Kane fits the bill, that argument would be valid whether we have a team full of under 25 years old players or not.
One of the main arguments, not the main one.