How important is it for us to avoid buying older players?

I’m gonna go all out on yes. We need to reduce the average of the team. There are several players around the same age who could possibly all start losing a bit of their game at the same time.
 
@sullydnl good thread.

I remember when Alex Ferguson left I was hoping beyond hope we didn't start making the same mistakes AC Milan did in the 90's/00's. That is to say, that once their star faded a bit, instead of trying to go after hungry young players they instead bought way too many aging star players to keep their fans happy. Of course Kaka changed that but that's part of the overall point I think.

It's sort of a way of chasing your losses - the reason we signed Zlatan, Cristiano, and Sanchez wasn't -exactly- to improve our squad, though I'm sure the management that signed them thought they might. It was partly a dearth of ideas, resources, and a desperate need to prove that we are still a "big club" to the fans and get excitement generated - when the reality is that big players come with huge paychecks and similarly sized ego's, and no longer feel the need to improve within a team - they've done it already, what do THEY have to prove after all?

And our transfer strategy ironically in Ole's first season with Amad and Pellestri is probably the best way forward - and not the one after with Ronaldo and Varane. We need to be patient and build a real team from the ground up again, but the fans especially on Redcafe won't accept that as a strategy long term - see the underwhelmed responses to the signings above compared with Ronaldo etc. So we have to play a sort of careful balance in order to appease the fans AND move forward.
Good post. Expectations are killing us
 
Glad that there's some tangible evidence that signing so many older players to be the main men on your team is not the best way to go. I've been against this policy for a while now.
 
I’m gonna go all out on yes. We need to reduce the average of the team. There are several players around the same age who could possibly all start losing a bit of their game at the same time.

The average age of our team is around the middle of the league. People are acting as if we have an old when we don't. The average age of United in 2023 is 26-something years old.
 
The average age of our team is around the middle of the league. People are acting as if we have an old when we don't. The average age of United in 2023 is 26-something years old.
Yes but all key positions - Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen & you could argue DeGea is declining as he gets older not maturing in the same way VDS did

not against the odd one brought in but definitely need to keep it in the back of our minds
 
For context;

When the new season kicks off a few of them will be a year older

Marcus Rashford
25 years (October 31, 1997)
Alejandro Garnacho
18 years (July 1, 2004)
Casemiro
31 years (February 23, 1992)
Harry Maguire
30 years (March 5, 1993)
Antony
23 years (February 24, 2000)
Wout Weghorst
30 years (August 7, 1992)
Bruno Fernandes
28 years (September 8, 1994)
Lisandro Martínez
25 years (January 18, 1998)
Marcel Sabitzer
29 years (March 17, 1994)
Jadon Sancho
23 years (March 25, 2000)
David de Gea
32 years (November 7, 1990)
Raphaël Varane
30 years (April 25, 1993)
Christian Eriksen
31 years (February 14, 1992)
Anthony Martial
27 years (December 5, 1995)
Luke Shaw
27 years (July 12, 1995)
Scott McTominay
26 years (December 8, 1996)
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
25 years (November 26, 1997)
Phil Jones
31 years (February 21, 1992)
Facundo Pellistri
21 years (December 20, 2001)
Diogo Dalot
24 years (March 18, 1999)
Tyrell Malacia
23 years (August 17, 1999)
Victor Lindelöf
28 years (July 17, 1994)
Anthony Elanga
21 years (April 27, 2002)
Donny van de Beek
26 years (April 18, 1997)
Zidane Iqbal
20 years (April 27, 2003)
Fred
30 years (March 5, 1993)
Kobbie Mainoo
18 years (April 19, 2005)
Jack Butland
30 years (March 10, 1993)
Brandon Williams
22 years (September 3, 2000)
Tom Heaton
37 years (April 15, 1986)
Marc Jurado
19 years (April 13, 2004)
Nathan Bishop
23 years (October 15, 1999)
Radek Vítek
19 years (October 24, 2003)
 
Yes but all key positions - Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen & you could argue DeGea is declining as he gets older not maturing in the same way VDS did

not against the odd one brought in but definitely need to keep it in the back of our minds

We need to keep everything in the back of our mind, including age management but we shouldn't avoid to buy older players when our team isn't old. You can replace a 32 years old De Gea with a better 29-32 years old goalkeeper, there would be no issue for United to replace Maguire with a player that has roughly the same age but is a better fit.

Should we sign a bunch of 35 years old players that are semi retired? No, but there is no issue with United doing what Real Madrid did with Rudiger or Alaba. Things aren't as rigid as the caf thinks, some players will be older and others youngers.
 
Looking at Casemiro-Eriksen, they are both 32 in February. It’s crucial we get younger legs in there

Younger than them but the point made is about signing older players in general, not older players in comparison to the players that they are replacing.
 
For context;

When the new season kicks off a few of them will be a year older

Marcus Rashford25 years (October 31, 1997)
Alejandro Garnacho18 years (July 1, 2004)
Casemiro31 years (February 23, 1992)
Harry Maguire30 years (March 5, 1993)
Antony23 years (February 24, 2000)
Wout Weghorst30 years (August 7, 1992)
Bruno Fernandes28 years (September 8, 1994)
Lisandro Martínez25 years (January 18, 1998)
Marcel Sabitzer29 years (March 17, 1994)
Jadon Sancho23 years (March 25, 2000)
David de Gea32 years (November 7, 1990)
Raphaël Varane30 years (April 25, 1993)
Christian Eriksen31 years (February 14, 1992)
Anthony Martial27 years (December 5, 1995)
Luke Shaw27 years (July 12, 1995)
Scott McTominay26 years (December 8, 1996)
Aaron Wan-Bissaka25 years (November 26, 1997)
Phil Jones31 years (February 21, 1992)
Facundo Pellistri21 years (December 20, 2001)
Diogo Dalot24 years (March 18, 1999)
Tyrell Malacia23 years (August 17, 1999)
Victor Lindelöf28 years (July 17, 1994)
Anthony Elanga21 years (April 27, 2002)
Donny van de Beek26 years (April 18, 1997)
Zidane Iqbal20 years (April 27, 2003)
Fred30 years (March 5, 1993)
Kobbie Mainoo18 years (April 19, 2005)
Jack Butland30 years (March 10, 1993)
Brandon Williams22 years (September 3, 2000)
Tom Heaton37 years (April 15, 1986)
Marc Jurado19 years (April 13, 2004)
Nathan Bishop23 years (October 15, 1999)
Radek Vítek19 years (October 24, 2003)
Unless we're going out an limb to renew Fred, Phil Jones, Heaton, and Weghorst, Sabitzer, Butland. We don't really have that aging a squad. Maguire is likely to leaving. We could see our team average age dropped despite players are an year older.

Replacing DDG has been a topic for several years now. Eriksen should have been a rotation option, that maybe addressed in coming window. Really if this squad looks aging, then we may as well stop buying players and only use academy players.
 
It's one of a few things we have to do better. Kane is the only player I might make an exception for, but I'd probably only do that if we can sign him on a free next season now.

The other thing we have to be careful with is the contracts we hand out. Both in terms of the value we attach to them, and holding on to players too long. De Gea and Eriksen are two examples of first team players I reckon we'll keep well past their sell by.
 
Very important. If you want to build a side that can contend for a decade or more, the entire spine of the team has to be young. The greatest sides (I mean sides that contended and won for 5+ years) all had young cores.
 
In our case, I don't think the age of players was the main problem. Maguire, Sancho, Pogba, Lukaku etc. we're all young enough when signed but they don't have the correct mentality. However, now with ETH I think a core of younger players will be important so he can more easily shape them into the players that fit his team.
 
Very important. If you want to build a side that can contend for a decade or more, the entire spine of the team has to be young. The greatest sides (I mean sides that contended and won for 5+ years) all had young cores.

You have little control of that. What you described is a very dangerous strategy that rarely works especially if you are talking about transfers. You don't control players beyond their first contract and players don't actually last that long either because they don't want to stay or their club don't want to keep them. Also young players don't develop linearly.
 
Interesting stats.

The challenge for us is that we’ve not had a long term strategy and so are always looking for quick fixes that can make an immediate impact.

Hopefully we are starting to see a move away from that but it needs stability from the coach/manager, if EtH doesn’t stand the rest of time we’ll be back to bringing in player(s) for the short term.
 
Unless we're going out an limb to renew Fred, Phil Jones, Heaton, and Weghorst, Sabitzer, Butland. We don't really have that aging a squad. Maguire is likely to leaving. We could see our team average age dropped despite players are an year older.

Replacing DDG has been a topic for several years now. Eriksen should have been a rotation option, that maybe addressed in coming window. Really if this squad looks aging, then we may as well stop buying players and only use academy players.
Whilst what you’re saying about the squad is true, it’s not addressing Varane, Casemiro Eriksen all key positions
 
Whilst what you’re saying about the squad is true, it’s not addressing Varane, Casemiro Eriksen all key positions
So you want everyone in starting line up to be under 30 then?

That leaves 2 positions in starting line up. That's the same as Man City freaking out about Kyle Walker and KDB, Gundogan, all started against Real Madrid. As I said Eriksen should only be a rotation option, and may as well. For a team behind in rebuild, age wise, we have a decent balance.

Everyone are aware of the mentioned players' age when they're signed. We didn't sign them for one season (or two in Varane case). We would try to get most out of their contract length, which if everything run well with recruitment there should be enough time to have succession plan for them.
 
So you want everyone in starting line up to be under 30 then?

That leaves 2 positions in starting line up. That's the same as Man City freaking out about Kyle Walker and KDB, Gundogan, all started against Real Madrid. As I said Eriksen should only be a rotation option, and may as well. For a team behind in rebuild, age wise, we have a decent balance.

Everyone are aware of their age when they're signed. We didn't sign them for one season (or two in Varane case). We would try to get most out of their contract length, which if every game run well with recruitment should be enough time to have succession plan for them.

And those succession plan could easily include players that are around 28-30 years old. People forget that the likes of Modric, Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, Fernandinho and I don't know who else were brought around those ages to have great careers.
 
Any big transfer over 28 is just a massive turn off. Big money should only be spent in the 19-26 range.
 
So you want everyone in starting line up to be under 30 then?

That leaves 2 positions in starting line up. That's the same as Man City freaking out about Kyle Walker and KDB, Gundogan, all started against Real Madrid. As I said Eriksen should only be a rotation option, and may as well. For a team behind in rebuild, age wise, we have a decent balance.

Everyone are aware of the mentioned players' age when they're signed. We didn't sign them for one season (or two in Varane case). We would try to get most out of their contract length, which if everything run well with recruitment there should be enough time to have succession plan for them.
Where did I say that? Does it not concern anyone that the middle of our team are literally the same age (different by 2 weeks), which means that unless we start planning now, there will be a huge hole to fill in 2 years at best
 
And those succession plan could easily include players that are around 28-30 years old. People forget that the likes of Modric, Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, Fernandinho and I don't know who else were brought around those ages to have great careers.
2 of those in modric and Pirlo probably saved a year or 2 on their careers by playing in less physically demanding leagues
 
Where did I say that? Does it not concern anyone that the middle of our team are literally the same age (different by 2 weeks), which means that unless we start planning now, there will be a huge hole to fill in 2 years at best

I see your point but it's not really the topic. We should plan and that plan can include "older" players.
 
2 of those in modric and Pirlo probably saved a year or 2 on their careers by playing in less physically demanding leagues

Okay but is the PL too demanding for 30 years old players?
 
Where did I say that? Does it not concern anyone that the middle of our team are literally the same age (different by 2 weeks), which means that unless we start planning now, there will be a huge hole to fill in 2 years at best
You have been implying it all along, and here you just double down on it.

When we signed them, we should have been aware of them already 30/ approaching 30. Only a fool expect a full 4-5 years of absolute prime from these players, and waited until it's too obvious until planning to replace them. There are enough rumour linking us to different CB, CM.
 
I see your point but it's not really the topic. We should plan and that plan can include "older" players.
Personally, I’d make an exception for a CF, but I don’t think I’d throw another ‘older’ player into the midfield conundrum
 
Was reading this article earlier which looked at the make-up of the last 10 Champions League finalists' starting elevens. It notes that:

- The average player joined their team for €30.6 million at 22.8 years of age.
- More than 80% of the players who started the Champions League final were acquired by their clubs before their 27th birthday.
- Only two players were acquired in their 30s, namely Keylor Navas and Thiago Silva.
- Of the forwards, only two were signed over the age of 25. Namely Di Maria and Mahrez, both signed at 27.

This got me thinking about City's transfer business over the period they've been dominating the league. And again there we see signings heavily focused towards younger players.

Since Guardiola arrived they've made two significants signings aged 29 or older, namely Nolito and Bravo. Whereas we've made six, namely Casemiro, Eriksen, Ronaldo, Sanchez, Ibra and Cavani. So not only more signings in that age bracket, but much more prominent and costly signings.

And notably of those six signings four were forwards, the one position no CL finalist team over the last half decade has started a player bought after the age of 27. With our reported main target this summer again being a 30 year old striker reported to cost us somewhere between £80-100m.

With all of that in minds, how important do you think the actual age of the players we buy from now on is? Should we be operating in line with these sides and avoid signing ageing players, especially for big money? Or is it a non-issue?

I'd say not as important as homegrown status for champions league.

Since 2009, a club playing in UEFA competitions must name eight homegrown players of any nationality in a 25-player squad. There are no quotas on matchday team selection. At least four of the homegrown players must have spent three years with the club between the ages of 15 and 21

Our homegrown that are actually playing;
Scott McTominay
Marcus Rashford
Jadon Sancho
Luke Shaw
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
 
There’s a tifo video about how we need to be building a team to properly compete in 3-5 years time and I would agree with the sentiment. No more signing players over 25 I would say. Signing Kane will be a huge mistake as he’s maybe only going to be elite for 3 more years.

 
No it’s not but as they get older they will decline quicker than those playing in Spain for example

Which isn't relevant in a question about avoiding to bring 28 to 30 years old players. The reality of the matter is that if you want to maintain a certain level you will have to rely on that type of players, take a look at the age of currently and consistently successful teams and you will notice that they aren't young, it's true in nearly all sports. If United was currently a successful team and had a well oiled core, I would agree on a strategy built around bringing "cheaper" young players that can learn from our core without being expected to perform and elevate the team but it's not what we have and we also don't have an old team which can't be stressed enough.

Fundamentally one of the issue with having that kind of policy is that it relies on at least two things. That the under 25 players will develop to reach the level of your current core players or higher and secondly that they will become good veterans/locker room influence both of these are wrong, most players fail at both. What we need to do is work in a more detailed and precise way, some players can and should be replaced with much younger players and others shouldn't, it's not a fancy answer but it's the actual answer.
 
Was reading this article earlier which looked at the make-up of the last 10 Champions League finalists' starting elevens. It notes that:

- The average player joined their team for €30.6 million at 22.8 years of age.
- More than 80% of the players who started the Champions League final were acquired by their clubs before their 27th birthday.
- Only two players were acquired in their 30s, namely Keylor Navas and Thiago Silva.
- Of the forwards, only two were signed over the age of 25. Namely Di Maria and Mahrez, both signed at 27.

This got me thinking about City's transfer business over the period they've been dominating the league. And again there we see signings heavily focused towards younger players.

Since Guardiola arrived they've made two significants signings aged 29 or older, namely Nolito and Bravo. Whereas we've made six, namely Casemiro, Eriksen, Ronaldo, Sanchez, Ibra and Cavani. So not only more signings in that age bracket, but much more prominent and costly signings.

And notably of those six signings four were forwards, the one position no CL finalist team over the last half decade has started a player bought after the age of 27. With our reported main target this summer again being a 30 year old striker reported to cost us somewhere between £80-100m.

With all of that in minds, how important do you think the actual age of the players we buy from now on is? Should we be operating in line with these sides and avoid signing ageing players, especially for big money? Or is it a non-issue?
In general success is built and sustained on players aged between 22-25. So most successful sides sign in that age bracket. It keeps the balance between young and hungry, peaked and experienced
 
You need a blend always. Our attack is way too young, so by that logic an experienced head like Kane makes sense. Midfield is way too old, need younger guys to balance it and have natural successors. Defence is a good blend though

How so? Rashford is 25, Martial 27, Antony 23, Sancho is 23, Bruno (if you count him as an attacker) is 28. It's only Garnacho who is under 23. None of those bar him are particularly young, yet alone too young.

I mean even leaving Bruno aside, that's still an average age of 23.2, 1.5 years older than the average age forwards are bought at as per the article I mentioned in the OP. And it's safe to say they'll be older again before any of them actually make it to a CL final.

What was our attack when we we won the CL in '08? I'm recalling Rooney (22), Ronaldo (23), Tevez (24), Berbatov (27) and Nani (21). Which is an average age of 23.4, almost exactly the same average age of our attack right now not including the older Bruno.

(Edit: actually we didn't sign Berbatov until summer '08, so that average drops even further).

If anything I'd argue our attack is one of the areas in the team our age profile is exactly what you'd want it to be. The players just aren't good enough.
 
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Avoid buying older players? I’d argue that without Casemiro, Varane and Eriksen we would probably be around 12th or 13th this season.

There is nothing wrong with purchasing experienced players, we just need to make sure we find a balance and know when to replace them.
 
Also, one of the main arguments I've seen in favour of signing the older Kane over younger players is that "the likes of Casemiro and Varane won't be at their peak for that much longer, we can't afford to wait another few years".

Which in itself points to an issue of targeting players in that Varane/Casemiro age bracket. It's not a good thing if the relatively short shelf life of key signings prompts you to feel we need to think shorter term about further key signings.
 
Also, one of the main arguments I've seen in favour of signing the older Kane over younger players is that "the likes of Casemiro and Varane won't be at their peak for that much longer, we can't afford to wait another few years".

Which in itself points to an issue of targeting players in that Varane/Casemiro age bracket. It's not a good thing if the relatively short shelf life of key signings prompts you to feel we need to think shorter term about further key signings.

Is that actually the main argument? I would assume that the main argument is that we need to improve our striking options and that a world class player like Kane fits the bill, that argument would be valid whether we have a team full of under 25 years old players or not.
 
Agree with the OP and I think it is obvious that we should not sign old players (especially in attack). Which is why I am against signing Kane despite that he is better than alternatives. We won’t win the league/UCL next season too, so next season should be the season where we build a strong team with players who would shine when we start competing, not with players who will be past it at the time when we should start competing. Otherwise we continue in this never-ending rebuild cycle.
 
Is that actually the main argument? I would assume that the main argument is that we need to improve our striking options and that a world class player like Kane fits the bill, that argument would be valid whether we have a team full of under 25 years old players or not.

One of the main arguments, not the main one.

The main one is that he's really very good, which is fair. But also applies to some younger strikers, Osimhen in particular.
 
One of the main arguments, not the main one.

Is it really one of the main arguments? I haven't followed the Kane talks, so if what you say is true then I'm surprised.
 
It's hugely significant. Usually what we see is it getting written off when a particular toy is wanted, i.e. Harry Kane. But ultimately it is something every club should be cognisant of. Players 30+ are inherently more risky over the length of their contracts. Whether that be susceptibility to injury, declining performance, or the cost of replacement when a second contract for such a player becomes less appealing. Any or all of those can arrive, the latter is probably inevitable.

So what do you get for taking those risks? The idea is a ready made product that will be transformative, and in my opinion you should be getting a character with the ability to influence others. Otherwise you are losing one of the main selling points for me of gaining experience. If they can't persuade or influence others and are just a player then that is a major disappointment to me.

I would say you should not have a cast iron rule to make sure you sign or don't sign 30+ players. It should be based on the squad composition and the market conditions, but always in view of what the longer term squad planning is.
 
I do think marketability has too much influence on recruitment at this club. That is because the club’s mission is to make money, above being successful at football. As such, older players are more valuable to selling shirts and gaining media coverage and clicks. Hopefully that changes soon.