Him transitioning into a CM capable of playing in a midfield 2 at the very end of his career is really something else
How good was Ryan Giggs?
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Him transitioning into a CM capable of playing in a midfield 2 at the very end of his career is really something else
One of those players who by today’s metrics would be more ‘talented’ than ‘good’ - but he was incredibly naturally gifted. Longevity kind of skews assessment a bit. If you could freeze any moment in time of his career, he was rarely considered the best player or often even one of the best few - however, the cumulative level tips it massively in his favour. His best version for me, as a winger, was probably in his first few seasons. After that, was generally flashes, and was probably fortunate in terms of his own reputation to have been playing in the winning team more often than not. When you win, history deletes your flaws and you become a highlight reel of everything you were good at.
don’t disagree that he had his flaws….Wasteful at times with unnecessary flicks round the corners… and he never suited that No10 role Fergie tried him in for a few years… but both early on the wing, and part of a midfield 3, even a 2 at times later on, he was a top, top player.
The fact that he would rarely be mentioned in anyone’s top 3 players current players list is more a demonstration of how amazing the squads he played in were. Had he played in his prime for us over the last decade, he would have stood out as elite.
1990's WInger Giggs at full flight is still the most exciting player I've ever seen at United.
You don't see players start to backtrack and panic a little when kdb or mo salah gets the ball in the middle of the park. Giggs did that in epl and Europe for many many years. Sheer monster and a rare rare breed similar to robben and figo.
Completely different players. Pace vs Precision. Penetration vs Coverage. How lucky were we to have seen these two bomb the wings for so long. Those were the days.
‘Top, top, player’ is a bit of an undefined metric though. He was very good in midfield, but was he ‘the best’? Was he good but considered even more impressive due to the fact that he’s Ryan Giggs in central midfield?
And I don’t even mean at United. I mean in the league or more broadly speaking. Always hard to compare with players because the argument is almost as if a player needs to have been a top player for 20 years to qualify. Which is a skewed metric. At different times, I’d say Robert Pires, Overmars, Robben were as good if not better. Even Harry Kewell for a period at Leeds. Damian Duff may also argue for himself. But of course, with the benefit of hindsight, we judge the entirety of their careers rather than peaks. I’m personally always more interested in comparing the peaks of players.
He was fecking good...
I remember watching him that 92/93 season with my mum and dad in absolute awe. Jaw dropping he was.
He moved with an absolutely incredible technique. He was just unplayable at times.
He moved with an absolutely incredible technique. He was just unplayable at times.
I think we underestimate how exceptional Ryan Giggs was.
By the standards of any era Giggs was an elite football player, in my opinion. Genuinely one of the best players I've seen in a United shirt and undoubtedly blessed with outstanding naturally footballing ability, balance, and technique.
Even if Ryan Giggs was having an 'off' day, he could still produce a telling pass or contribute something to a goal. Yes, he could be a little frustrating, but that was Giggs - he took risks in possession and backed his ability to provide a goal or assist.
I still cannot get my head around the fact that he was booed, but it was probably more a measure of how spoilt fans were back then and how accustomed they were to seeing brilliance week in, week out from the team in general. Booing Ryan Giggs is like booing Roger Federer for having a bad performance. It just doesn't have any kind of logic or justification.
Giggs initially built a reputation as a winger capable of running at breakneck speed, but for me what always stood out was his footballing intelligence and technical ability. He didn't use skills so much as balance to get past players. Running at speed, he could change direction so easily.
Hands down one of the best three players I've seen play for this club. When I've spoken to Spanish and Italian football fans, it is Giggs they talk about.
By the standards of any era Giggs was an elite football player, in my opinion. Genuinely one of the best players I've seen in a United shirt and undoubtedly blessed with outstanding naturally footballing ability, balance, and technique.
Even if Ryan Giggs was having an 'off' day, he could still produce a telling pass or contribute something to a goal. Yes, he could be a little frustrating, but that was Giggs - he took risks in possession and backed his ability to provide a goal or assist.
I still cannot get my head around the fact that he was booed, but it was probably more a measure of how spoilt fans were back then and how accustomed they were to seeing brilliance week in, week out from the team in general. Booing Ryan Giggs is like booing Roger Federer for having a bad performance. It just doesn't have any kind of logic or justification.
Giggs initially built a reputation as a winger capable of running at breakneck speed, but for me what always stood out was his footballing intelligence and technical ability. He didn't use skills so much as balance to get past players. Running at speed, he could change direction so easily.
Hands down one of the best three players I've seen play for this club. When I've spoken to Spanish and Italian football fans, it is Giggs they talk about.
even by peak solely you're way off
Harry Kewell had a season, before he joined Liverpool, where he was ridiculous and unplayable for me. Hit like 16 league goals, many of them spectacular and had every top club in Europe after him. Didn’t last 20 years though so hey.
Duff last season at Blackburn and first at Chelsea was up there. I was there at the time. Everyone wasn’t saying how Giggs was miles better than him. Again, didn’t last 20 years and now he’d be considered nowhere near Giggs. But when he was hot, Giggs was also a PL winger, and there was no such gap.
Peak Giggs was one of the best wingers in the world, only one or two would've have been ahead. Duff was definitely after Giggs' peak, but even he, I would say was a really good player during his relatively short peak - probably one of the best wingers at the time himself (just a notch below Giggs)
My personal view is Kewell was never as good as the peak levels of both Giggs and Duff as a pure winger. He's one of those I feel would have played a bit more centrally in this day and age
He was awesome, iirc he had sides like AC Milan (who were a giant at the time) offering £15m - world record fee about 3-4 years before Shearer actually went for that amount
What would you say that peak of Giggs’ was? For me, it was his first few seasons in the 90s. He was a phenom then.
Fair enough on Kewell. I rate a particular version of him at Leeds very highly, and certainly a better player than Damian Duff, but I agree he was not a classic winger as such. He was a forward, and in that particular season, the best one in the league I reckon.
There are of course different types of wingers. Robert Pires at his best was the best of the lot from that sort of era for me. A better player than Giggs. Giggs was more exciting as he used to run past full backs, but Pires was ‘better’ IMO.
The defensive work wingers had to do back then make it difficult to give him a direct comparison to today's players. Its a different style of play.
He would've got into any team in world football, that alone made him world class at the time in my view.
He would've got into any team in world football, that alone made him world class at the time in my view.
Brilliant footballer, a natural player, gifted and settled with the ball, brave, resilient and a match-winner. An outstanding club player, fans player and manager's player. Fantastic ability.
For those who haven't seen it, watch his debut goal scored against Spurs. It's a devastating goal, players rarely score the likes of which today.
Nothing but love for Ryan Giggs. Brilliant footballer.
For those who haven't seen it, watch his debut goal scored against Spurs. It's a devastating goal, players rarely score the likes of which today.
Nothing but love for Ryan Giggs. Brilliant footballer.
For a period in the 90s he was the most famous footballer in the country. You always felt he was going to beat his man and deliver the end product whether that be moving the play forward , assisting or a goal. That goal against Arsenal is still one of the most iconic Utd goals ever. Especially how he embarrassed several Arsenal players from that team and the iconic celebration. Just after one of the most iconic saves from big Pete saving Bergkamps penalty which would have ended the treble.
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Magnificent footballer. I get that some might look at his stats now and go maybe he didn't have that one incredible season and crazy numbers but that wasn't the game then and Giggs was too selfless a footballer (whatever you think of him as a man) to play for individual awards. His prime physical years were always interrupted by hamstring injuries, had to be carefully managed but in big games, especially in Europe, he was the one that gave Utd the edge. Other players may have had better seasons but their very top level was not at his, Pires is the only one to have an argument domestically.
Game-changer, and the most exciting Utd player of my lifetime, but hey the stat heads don't seem to understand that a LW in a 4-4-2 does not have the same job as a wide forward of now. One is a creator, the other is the modern poacher. Guess Figo was also overrated with his inferior goal record as well.
Damien Duff compared to him? Duff was a very good player for a few years, hard worker, good balance and dribbling ability but he had nowhere near Giggs's creativity, passing ability and all round game.
He played to 2014 and was very good to very late, some talk as if he was a relic of the 90's, dude was playing against and schooling guys who are still playing now.
Game-changer, and the most exciting Utd player of my lifetime, but hey the stat heads don't seem to understand that a LW in a 4-4-2 does not have the same job as a wide forward of now. One is a creator, the other is the modern poacher. Guess Figo was also overrated with his inferior goal record as well.
Damien Duff compared to him? Duff was a very good player for a few years, hard worker, good balance and dribbling ability but he had nowhere near Giggs's creativity, passing ability and all round game.
He played to 2014 and was very good to very late, some talk as if he was a relic of the 90's, dude was playing against and schooling guys who are still playing now.
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Giggs coming through today would be frightening. People say he scored 1 in 6 but people forget football was very different when Giggs came through. Wingers essentially where assisters not goalscorers. If he was coming through now he wouldn't have stayed out wide like he did, he'd come inside a lot more and he would take on more shots and inevitably score more goals.
I also think that he'd have found life much easier nowadays when on the ball as he wouldn't be worried about 2 foot lunges and in general hard tackles. He would just run past defenders knowing they are unable to commit.
I think Giggs is one of those players from the 90s who could have transitioned into modern game quite comfortably.
I also think that he'd have found life much easier nowadays when on the ball as he wouldn't be worried about 2 foot lunges and in general hard tackles. He would just run past defenders knowing they are unable to commit.
I think Giggs is one of those players from the 90s who could have transitioned into modern game quite comfortably.
They were the days and my 2 favourite players, obviously. Beckham more. Never crossed my mind who was better both were so different.
He scored on his debut. Wasn't called Giggs though. 17
I'd imagine that must make rewatching the 99 treble season an enjoyable experience for you.
Despicable human being. Fanfeckingtastic footballer. Not a very unusual combination these days. Well he was both end of the spectrum.
One can stretch the wings, the other can ping a 60 yard cross fields. One can take 2 man head on at full speed, the other can curl a 30 yard corner to the hair follicle of your best header. There is very little you can do, if you take care of one flank with a structured defence, the other will be free to run the game. That is if you ignore a certain midget midfielder and his not so subtle box to box midfield partner. And don't even get me started with the strikers and a certain supersub. Dude i hate threads like this and the nostalgia.
He was breaking ankles when he was 17,27 and 37.
It did seem for a while that when he cut his hair he lost some pace, but he reinvented himself in 2006.
He would have more assists and goals in today's game, but that doesn't take anything from him. Just ask Zanetti and other defenders.
It did seem for a while that when he cut his hair he lost some pace, but he reinvented himself in 2006.
He would have more assists and goals in today's game, but that doesn't take anything from him. Just ask Zanetti and other defenders.
His assist numbers were great. He had a goal contribution every other game on average over his career which is incredible for someone who played for 23 years at the highest level.
World class. One of those sublime talents like Bobby Charlton who resisted offers from the top continental clubs and stayed through his career.
This might be a weird way to put it but I would have him as the GOAT left winger in a 442 without an attacking full-back behind him. Genuine width provision, goal threat, creativity and defensive work rate.
Alwas hard to compare eras and styles but he was consistently excellent. Ask the opposition, most will say he was a nightmare for them.
Truly a legend. Would say he gets less mentions as his skills/career deserved due to the fact he played in a truly legendary Utd team with the likes of Scholes.
I honestly believe that if he had played for England they would have won the WC, and people would rate him in the very top top bracket.
I honestly believe that if he had played for England they would have won the WC, and people would rate him in the very top top bracket.
He has stated that he deliberately reduced his pace (I.e. never sprinted at 100%) after his problems with his hamstring. If you remember the 90s, he seemed to have constant issues with his hamstring. I remember reading an interview in which he said the last time he sprinted at top speed was 1997.
Even then, he still had injury problems (famously in the 98 season run-in, which played a role in United throwing away the title). As he matured and redefined his role, he seemed to run less and less.
I think this is true. Even though I thought he stopped sprinting at his top speed a bit later (around 2001). But maybe my memory is playing games.
Around 2000 he also stopped buying and switching between new/sports cars because the low driving angle and clutch on those was stiffer and was causing him problems with his hamstring.
Over rated in my book. His final ball was lacking at times which was a shame after all the hard work but a good 60% of his crosses ended up failing to hit the target.
He was a good player but not world class and to compare him to George Best is ridiculous Best and Ronaldo far better players, Giggs however a far better servant to the club.
He was a good player but not world class and to compare him to George Best is ridiculous Best and Ronaldo far better players, Giggs however a far better servant to the club.
Do you consider anyone in our current squad world class? Giggs would absolutely show everyone up. Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro and Martinez are the only ones that could hold a candle to him on the pitch. Even then he'd be comfortably our best player.
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In terms of pure raw talent is he up there with the best players to ever play the game in my opinion. Same with longevity, not many have been able to adapt and keep a relatively high level of performance into the latter stages of their career as he has.
However 168 goals and 259 odd assists in 963 games is not a world class winger output by any stretch of the imagination.
People who say he is overrated I think is massive hyperbole, or i've seen quotes saying he is lucky he just appeared when we had a dominant team. The reality is you don't get your debut at 17 years old and you aren't a mainstay of a dominating football team unless you are a really good player, which he was.
Giggs at his best would absolutely destroy the wingers we have at the club right now... Garnacho is a fantastic talent but if you were to ask me if I would take 18 year old Giggs over 18 year old Garnacho right now the answer would be Giggs everyday, this isn't even a question when it comes to Sancho, Antony etc.
So then why are there question marks about his footballing performance, one could argue inconsistency, or him never having a truly world class season like Ronaldo did for us despite Giggs' talent. I always felt that Giggs was always outshone by other players, he was the new kid on the block with the brand deals and so on when he first emerged but then Beckham quickly established himself and took all the attention, even though I think Giggs was supremely more talented than him. I don't think his National team exploits helped him either.
It's kind of hard to pinpoint really... I'm mostly going to chalk it up to recency bias though, there's a lot of wild opinions these days on how a lot of footballers from many moons ago, of the 90's and so on, just aren't that good anymore compared to footballers of today. Hell there was a twitter thread going around the other day about how Rio Ferdinand wouldn't make it in todays modern game, which of course we all know is a joke.
The fact remains is that Giggs made his debut at 17, had amazing technical and physical abilities a lot of players can only dream of having, he chalked up over 900 appearences for the club, won almost everything there is to win on a professional level, multiple times, and all this in a Manchester United side that remained pretty dominant for a good chunk of his time at the club. Was he lucky? No he was an important cog in that machine.
However 168 goals and 259 odd assists in 963 games is not a world class winger output by any stretch of the imagination.
People who say he is overrated I think is massive hyperbole, or i've seen quotes saying he is lucky he just appeared when we had a dominant team. The reality is you don't get your debut at 17 years old and you aren't a mainstay of a dominating football team unless you are a really good player, which he was.
Giggs at his best would absolutely destroy the wingers we have at the club right now... Garnacho is a fantastic talent but if you were to ask me if I would take 18 year old Giggs over 18 year old Garnacho right now the answer would be Giggs everyday, this isn't even a question when it comes to Sancho, Antony etc.
So then why are there question marks about his footballing performance, one could argue inconsistency, or him never having a truly world class season like Ronaldo did for us despite Giggs' talent. I always felt that Giggs was always outshone by other players, he was the new kid on the block with the brand deals and so on when he first emerged but then Beckham quickly established himself and took all the attention, even though I think Giggs was supremely more talented than him. I don't think his National team exploits helped him either.
It's kind of hard to pinpoint really... I'm mostly going to chalk it up to recency bias though, there's a lot of wild opinions these days on how a lot of footballers from many moons ago, of the 90's and so on, just aren't that good anymore compared to footballers of today. Hell there was a twitter thread going around the other day about how Rio Ferdinand wouldn't make it in todays modern game, which of course we all know is a joke.
The fact remains is that Giggs made his debut at 17, had amazing technical and physical abilities a lot of players can only dream of having, he chalked up over 900 appearences for the club, won almost everything there is to win on a professional level, multiple times, and all this in a Manchester United side that remained pretty dominant for a good chunk of his time at the club. Was he lucky? No he was an important cog in that machine.
I think what some fail to understand is Giggs role changed a bit and he sacrificed that for the team. He could've continued being the version he was in the early and mid 90s on another team but at United he was the ultimate team player.
There were too many mouths to feed which is why we never really were a team so dependant on one player in attack after Cantona left until RVN and even then Scholes and Ole scored a bunch too.
During the period of the video below is where people often think Giggs lost some of his magic but please have a look at how many goals he created a season in these years. Giggs primary role was to create and destroy fullbacks in these teams and he did it as well as anyone in his position. Its a bit sad when people look at his goals record and judge him based off that. He scored a modest amount but it was creating that was his biggest gift and what made SAF value him so much.
Some of these assists were filthy. A player that could create at this rate today would be worth a fortune.
There were too many mouths to feed which is why we never really were a team so dependant on one player in attack after Cantona left until RVN and even then Scholes and Ole scored a bunch too.
During the period of the video below is where people often think Giggs lost some of his magic but please have a look at how many goals he created a season in these years. Giggs primary role was to create and destroy fullbacks in these teams and he did it as well as anyone in his position. Its a bit sad when people look at his goals record and judge him based off that. He scored a modest amount but it was creating that was his biggest gift and what made SAF value him so much.
Some of these assists were filthy. A player that could create at this rate today would be worth a fortune.
Mate, if 40% of a wingers crosses were hitting the target, a teammate, then that guy would be the best crosser of all time.
And also for the goal record people here is a list of other overrated players that didn't score enough
Pavel Nedved, 1 in 5 guy outside of the Czech leagues
Luis Figo, near 1 in 6 with pens
Zinedine Zidane 1 in 5.5, with pens
Rui Costa, 1 in 7
Marc Overmars, once considered fairly prolific for a wide player, 1 in 5.5
David Ginola, 1 in 7 in England
Beckham, 1 in 5.5 with every freekick and a fair number of pens
Steve McManaman 1 in 7
Iniesta, 1 in 10, nearly 1 in 12 at Barca, only 3 times did he score more than 3 league goals in a season.
It is almost as if roles have changed.
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There is probably nothing scarier for a defender than a pacey player with great ball control running at him. That made the younger Giggs so special but after a while he just couldn't do it anymore and remain fit.
There were periods during which it was almost as if he took the shackles off and ran at full pace. And it would always go the same - he'll be electric for a few games, unplayable, win matches on his own... and eventually start limping because he pulled or torn his hamstring and not be seen again for weeks of months. That 1998 injury you mentioned was one of those cases. There was another around Christmas of 2004.