How does this Keane fiasco effect us? Discuss
- Thread starter ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC
- Start date
He's about self motivation and not team .
It's in everything he says and the way he says it IN MY OPINION .
Just an opinion for Chrisakes
It's in everything he says and the way he says it IN MY OPINION .
Just an opinion for Chrisakes
Jopub, if you care to read all the other threads concerning Keane you would find that not everyobdy has given their unquestioning support despite what nickm says. The point is however, that nickm holds his opinion and it does indeed belong to the majority who support Keano. Now why should you question that actually? It's his right (you seem keen on this rights business). Don't label us all until you've read it all. Then consider your posts more carefully before you press the add reply button. And stop telling everyone what's right and wrong as it's merely your opinion, an opinion that as I predicted is becoming more and more unwanted it appears.
Forget all this bickering shit, everyone can have their opinion right or wrong, all you have to do is ignore the idiots.
Jopub says feasible things that he is entitled to say. He is definitely not in the minority with what he says.
Back to the subject - one thing that has stuck with me for years.
Kanchelskis was one of my fave players way back when. I remember he scored this cracking goal and Lee Sharpe ran up to him to celebrate, KanKan was facing the crowd his arms outstretched in that familiar way and Sharpe was looking infield with this big grin, arm around kan's shoulders.
Then Sharpe see's something and his face goes from big-grin to "Shit, I'm outta here, none of my business" and his head goes down and he promptly walks in the opposite direction.
Kanchelskis turns infield and his smile turns to a look of fear as Keano grabs him by the neck with both hands and his face is contorted with rage. Why? No idea. Keano starts shouting something at him and KanKan just stands there, his neck grappled by this monster.
A few fans look worried but most of them are still cheering thinking nothing is wrong.
What do you guys think of that for captain material? Is that how someone treats his team mates?
I'm not knocking him, but KanKan was my fave player and I felt for the guy just after he scored a great goal. I know arguments are common place but being throttled by someone? I dont know...
Jopub says feasible things that he is entitled to say. He is definitely not in the minority with what he says.
Back to the subject - one thing that has stuck with me for years.
Kanchelskis was one of my fave players way back when. I remember he scored this cracking goal and Lee Sharpe ran up to him to celebrate, KanKan was facing the crowd his arms outstretched in that familiar way and Sharpe was looking infield with this big grin, arm around kan's shoulders.
Then Sharpe see's something and his face goes from big-grin to "Shit, I'm outta here, none of my business" and his head goes down and he promptly walks in the opposite direction.
Kanchelskis turns infield and his smile turns to a look of fear as Keano grabs him by the neck with both hands and his face is contorted with rage. Why? No idea. Keano starts shouting something at him and KanKan just stands there, his neck grappled by this monster.
A few fans look worried but most of them are still cheering thinking nothing is wrong.
What do you guys think of that for captain material? Is that how someone treats his team mates?
I'm not knocking him, but KanKan was my fave player and I felt for the guy just after he scored a great goal. I know arguments are common place but being throttled by someone? I dont know...
So Shao, you reckon we should strip Keano for the captancy, or maybe even sell him?
No I wouldn't say that. I just hope that he is not disruptive. If he is then we can replace him.
I would rather have the other players playing 100% than have Keano kicking and screaming whilst everyone else sort of carries themselves through gritting their teeth.
Other teams get along just fine without Keano and characters like him. Team spirit is essential to success and any obstacle needs to be removed. Liverpool and Arsenal's team spirit is way above ours right now, you can see it in the way they play. Thats what I'm worried about most of all. To be honest I dont know what the point of this thread was except to explore possibilities.
I would rather have the other players playing 100% than have Keano kicking and screaming whilst everyone else sort of carries themselves through gritting their teeth.
Other teams get along just fine without Keano and characters like him. Team spirit is essential to success and any obstacle needs to be removed. Liverpool and Arsenal's team spirit is way above ours right now, you can see it in the way they play. Thats what I'm worried about most of all. To be honest I dont know what the point of this thread was except to explore possibilities.
I am looking at our failings as a team, not the silverware in our cupboard. I know the reasons for us having a bad season. One being disbanded team spirit and disorganisation. Things that cant be purchased or trained - therefore very difficult to remedy. Keane may be contributing to this.
Are you justifying Keane's actions? I for one think its disgusting that he should trottle his team mate and it points to a darker side of Keane that no one knows about. The recent events also point to it. I'm not exactly plucking at straws here.
I just want to hear what other people feel about these things - what if Keane did disrupt the team? 5% is enough. Would you still want him here to the other players detriment? I still remember the look on Sharpe's face - that wasn't respect.
These aren't speculations. These are facts - maybe not ALL the facts, but its not rumours or anything.
Its a fact he grabbed kan's throat and its a fact that the man said it himself, he has not traded phone numbers with his team mates and does not 'hang out' with them or participate in social activities. I heard the words from his mouth and still have the events on video. Its a fact that he slams team mates in public, Man Utd and Ireland alike. Whats his bloody problem?
Evidently no one cares, as long as he carries on huffing and puffing in midfield, I suspect everyone will be happy. Dont know about the players though.
Are you justifying Keane's actions? I for one think its disgusting that he should trottle his team mate and it points to a darker side of Keane that no one knows about. The recent events also point to it. I'm not exactly plucking at straws here.
I just want to hear what other people feel about these things - what if Keane did disrupt the team? 5% is enough. Would you still want him here to the other players detriment? I still remember the look on Sharpe's face - that wasn't respect.
These aren't speculations. These are facts - maybe not ALL the facts, but its not rumours or anything.
Its a fact he grabbed kan's throat and its a fact that the man said it himself, he has not traded phone numbers with his team mates and does not 'hang out' with them or participate in social activities. I heard the words from his mouth and still have the events on video. Its a fact that he slams team mates in public, Man Utd and Ireland alike. Whats his bloody problem?
Evidently no one cares, as long as he carries on huffing and puffing in midfield, I suspect everyone will be happy. Dont know about the players though.
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>Dont know about the players though.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Precisely, we don't know! Which is why it's still a question whether Keane is disruptive or not. Interesting points raised in discussion, but IMO I am more than happy to see a player gives 110% to the club like Keane does. And once again,at some of the comments made here by the same person who started off well with his opinions and ended up abusing other posters.
I question him because I still see a negative side of his personality in the Ireland fiasco - hence the topic - come on man.
I thought the captaincy changed him, red cards come much less etc.
I dont know what the players think, I can only speculate on what would improve performances. You've still not answered my question - is it ok for a guy (captain of the greatest club in the world no less) to throttle someone and lambast his team mates whenever, whereever he wants as if he was King? I just cant see that it is.
Do you think his actions/comments effect the team? If so then would we be better off without those effects? Or is his very presence worth the trouble? Cos I dont think theres any way whatsoever that the other players dont retreat to some corner somewhere and get pissed off at their captain for blasting them publically all the time. You'll notice that no other player does that. Not even Fergie.
This topic is not about me so stop going on about me. You probably thought the Irish players worshipped Keane until they issued a statement saying they dont want him back. But the damage is done isnt it?
I thought the captaincy changed him, red cards come much less etc.
I dont know what the players think, I can only speculate on what would improve performances. You've still not answered my question - is it ok for a guy (captain of the greatest club in the world no less) to throttle someone and lambast his team mates whenever, whereever he wants as if he was King? I just cant see that it is.
Do you think his actions/comments effect the team? If so then would we be better off without those effects? Or is his very presence worth the trouble? Cos I dont think theres any way whatsoever that the other players dont retreat to some corner somewhere and get pissed off at their captain for blasting them publically all the time. You'll notice that no other player does that. Not even Fergie.
This topic is not about me so stop going on about me. You probably thought the Irish players worshipped Keane until they issued a statement saying they dont want him back. But the damage is done isnt it?
> You've still not answered my question - is it
> ok for a guy (captain of the greatest club in
> the world no less) to throttle someone
> and lambast his team mates whenever, whereever
> he wants as if he was King? I just cant see
> that it is.
Well, yes sometimes I think it is OK. If, for example, a player is clearly the 'standard setter' and another player is constantly falling below that standard, it is necessary to remind that player what the standards are, sometimes assertively.
It is *not* OK if that player is, as you suggest, making a noise for reasons of ego, or grandstanding, or being a prima donna. But I don't think Keane is doing it for those reasons.
> ok for a guy (captain of the greatest club in
> the world no less) to throttle someone
> and lambast his team mates whenever, whereever
> he wants as if he was King? I just cant see
> that it is.
Well, yes sometimes I think it is OK. If, for example, a player is clearly the 'standard setter' and another player is constantly falling below that standard, it is necessary to remind that player what the standards are, sometimes assertively.
It is *not* OK if that player is, as you suggest, making a noise for reasons of ego, or grandstanding, or being a prima donna. But I don't think Keane is doing it for those reasons.
But Kanchelskis had just scored a goal and thats his reward? A strangle session with Keano. Plus it was in front of thousands during a bloody match. There is no way to justify that.
Blasting team mates may have been right, but he should've kept it inhouse really.
He may have been in the right but how do you think the players feel? Are they gonna pick themselves up or just take a dislike to him? It didnt work last Summer when he blasted them.
Blasting team mates may have been right, but he should've kept it inhouse really.
He may have been in the right but how do you think the players feel? Are they gonna pick themselves up or just take a dislike to him? It didnt work last Summer when he blasted them.
This throttling was the match against?
I have to say SC has voiced some of the anxieties going through my head as this whole fiaco has unraveled.
Keano seemed to have some legitimate points of complaint about the Irish preparations. The interview in which he voiced them was reasonable and well balanced in the main.. And Mccarthy's decision to have the issue out with Roy in front of the whole team appers to have been unnecessarily provocative and poor management. |The point is however that it was only poor management because Roy's reaction may be seen to be , to a degree, predictable. In other words it was not wholly surprising that Roy would lose his rag.
This is the part that worries me about the imlications for Utd. There have been signs over the last two years that something is eating away at roy.. He is clearly of the view that certain of his team mates aint pulling their weight and is not afraid to say so. He is also discontented about the irish set up and is not afraid to say so. Now if Utd don't show an enormous improvement in the early part of next year.. ( and my guess is... after the WC we'll probably make a slow start.. is roy going to sound off again. Who is it within the team that Roy thinks are not pulling their weight. I have a suspicion he is talking about people like Scholes , Giggsy and the Nevs. If my suspicion is right and Roy continues his grumbles.. are we confident that the type of explosion such has occured in Iereland will not occur. If it did this could only be conceivably good for moarle and the team if Roy iright I.e. his grumbles are because he has his finger on the pulse of the problem at OT and is being given rein by SAF to enunciate it. After the Irish fiasco, I,m not so sure that the alternative explanation, that Roy's discontent is a manifestation of some demons lurking beneath the surface ,is not the more credible.
Keano seemed to have some legitimate points of complaint about the Irish preparations. The interview in which he voiced them was reasonable and well balanced in the main.. And Mccarthy's decision to have the issue out with Roy in front of the whole team appers to have been unnecessarily provocative and poor management. |The point is however that it was only poor management because Roy's reaction may be seen to be , to a degree, predictable. In other words it was not wholly surprising that Roy would lose his rag.
This is the part that worries me about the imlications for Utd. There have been signs over the last two years that something is eating away at roy.. He is clearly of the view that certain of his team mates aint pulling their weight and is not afraid to say so. He is also discontented about the irish set up and is not afraid to say so. Now if Utd don't show an enormous improvement in the early part of next year.. ( and my guess is... after the WC we'll probably make a slow start.. is roy going to sound off again. Who is it within the team that Roy thinks are not pulling their weight. I have a suspicion he is talking about people like Scholes , Giggsy and the Nevs. If my suspicion is right and Roy continues his grumbles.. are we confident that the type of explosion such has occured in Iereland will not occur. If it did this could only be conceivably good for moarle and the team if Roy iright I.e. his grumbles are because he has his finger on the pulse of the problem at OT and is being given rein by SAF to enunciate it. After the Irish fiasco, I,m not so sure that the alternative explanation, that Roy's discontent is a manifestation of some demons lurking beneath the surface ,is not the more credible.
Red - good points.
No matter how correct Roy may be, his actions may be doing more bad than good. Is his arrogance suggesting that his public displays somehow make people accept what he says?
No matter how badly we play, going to the press wont improve anything. No matter how right you are, that TV interview would've never made MM apologise. Nor will strangling someone.
I think that happened against City when Kanchelskis scored. It was a long time ago. If I must I will check the video again. Its on a Man Utd compliation tape (100 greatest goals ever type thing) and they tried to cut it out but you see it for like half a second, definitely. You even see Sharpe glance back in disgust/fear as he walks away. At first it looks like they are celebrating but after rewinding and pausing the look in their eyes says it aint so.
No matter how correct Roy may be, his actions may be doing more bad than good. Is his arrogance suggesting that his public displays somehow make people accept what he says?
No matter how badly we play, going to the press wont improve anything. No matter how right you are, that TV interview would've never made MM apologise. Nor will strangling someone.
I think that happened against City when Kanchelskis scored. It was a long time ago. If I must I will check the video again. Its on a Man Utd compliation tape (100 greatest goals ever type thing) and they tried to cut it out but you see it for like half a second, definitely. You even see Sharpe glance back in disgust/fear as he walks away. At first it looks like they are celebrating but after rewinding and pausing the look in their eyes says it aint so.
So you werent at the match and you saw it for brief seconds on video and you cant really remember it because it is a long time ago, and you really need to dig out the video, and as far as you can recall it was aginst city, and Keane has done this often since. Was it the Kanchelskis hat-trick. This is not really coming together is it?
You just basically made up a whole load of irrelevant details.
Yes it was a long time ago and yes its on a video. Why do I need to remember what goal or who it was against?
Do you think I'm stupid enough to IMAGINE Roy Keane STRANGLING Kanchelskis? What kind of fool do you take me for?
Those facts are irrelevent - you'll notice that I recall the actual event just fine. I explained it in alot of detail actually.
How can you expect me to keep track of the hundreds of goals scored against the hundreds of teams down the years? The only thing that stands out is that moment where Kanchelskis turns round to be stunned to find Keanes hands wrapped tightly round his throat. Ince was there aswell, screaming something in Kanchelskis general direction.
Doesnt it being on video mean its more reliable than my faded memory? Flippin 'eck!
Yes it was a long time ago and yes its on a video. Why do I need to remember what goal or who it was against?
Do you think I'm stupid enough to IMAGINE Roy Keane STRANGLING Kanchelskis? What kind of fool do you take me for?
Those facts are irrelevent - you'll notice that I recall the actual event just fine. I explained it in alot of detail actually.
How can you expect me to keep track of the hundreds of goals scored against the hundreds of teams down the years? The only thing that stands out is that moment where Kanchelskis turns round to be stunned to find Keanes hands wrapped tightly round his throat. Ince was there aswell, screaming something in Kanchelskis general direction.
Doesnt it being on video mean its more reliable than my faded memory? Flippin 'eck!
You know funny that because Keane has never been in the same team as sharpe and Kanchelskis against city when Kanchelskis scored.
Kanchelskis scored 4 in two games against city in 1994/5. Sharpe missed one game and Keane the other.
Kanchelskis left the next season.
I am really finding it difficult to follow your bright arguments.
Kanchelskis scored 4 in two games against city in 1994/5. Sharpe missed one game and Keane the other.
Kanchelskis left the next season.
I am really finding it difficult to follow your bright arguments.
It is just when you start throwing accusations around you need to be very clear. Maybe I would want to check the veracity of your facts. I dont know how straight up you are.
I know one thing though - when somebody questions you, you go a bit over the top and defend yourself in a somewhat tired and emotional manner - just like <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
So you are human then - you dont like to be questioned.
I know one thing though - when somebody questions you, you go a bit over the top and defend yourself in a somewhat tired and emotional manner - just like <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
So you are human then - you dont like to be questioned.
Who knows then.
I'm sure it was a Kanchelskis goal where Sharpe celebrates with him and Keane runs up to him.
If I'm wrong I'll admit it, but I'm sure that Keane had his hands round Andrei's neck. Theres a chance the other details are wrong, if you say Sharpe's never been on the pitch when Kanchelskis has scored then it could've been someone else. Althouh I still have a mental picture of Sharpe walking away. But theres no way I've imagined the whole thing. If your patient I'll go through the video.
But right now I have to prepare for an exam tomorrow morning.
Tomorrow I'll get back to you with the exact details if you really find it hard to believe.
I'm sure it was a Kanchelskis goal where Sharpe celebrates with him and Keane runs up to him.
If I'm wrong I'll admit it, but I'm sure that Keane had his hands round Andrei's neck. Theres a chance the other details are wrong, if you say Sharpe's never been on the pitch when Kanchelskis has scored then it could've been someone else. Althouh I still have a mental picture of Sharpe walking away. But theres no way I've imagined the whole thing. If your patient I'll go through the video.
But right now I have to prepare for an exam tomorrow morning.
Tomorrow I'll get back to you with the exact details if you really find it hard to believe.
Fine that is all i ask.
I am away till we get knocked out of the world cup. Keaneless Republic of Keano. But I will check <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
I am away till we get knocked out of the world cup. Keaneless Republic of Keano. But I will check <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
I dont mind being questioned, but to accuse me of daydreaming such an extraordinary event is pretty annoying. Although funny.
I will check it now since I need a break. Give me awhile. Its 300 goals not 100.
I will check it now since I need a break. Give me awhile. Its 300 goals not 100.
And by the way wasnt your favourite player somebody whose mates threatened to shoot the manager? Well adjusted role model.
I was a kid at the time buddy.
You could also say that Keane and Ince once beat Kanchelskis up in the dressing room.
The kind of rumours that aren't worth mentioning.
I tried to look for it but the video was very bad quality. I have since been kicked off the video player and told to revise.
Tomorrow I will go home (I'm not home now) and I will use the better video player to watch it closely. I found one event resembling it but I wont talk about that until I am for sure.
But give me til tomorrow, the video was attrocious. If I dont find it then all is lost!!!
Joke - I'll just have to be content with my own memory of what I saw.
You could also say that Keane and Ince once beat Kanchelskis up in the dressing room.
The kind of rumours that aren't worth mentioning.
I tried to look for it but the video was very bad quality. I have since been kicked off the video player and told to revise.
Tomorrow I will go home (I'm not home now) and I will use the better video player to watch it closely. I found one event resembling it but I wont talk about that until I am for sure.
But give me til tomorrow, the video was attrocious. If I dont find it then all is lost!!!
Joke - I'll just have to be content with my own memory of what I saw.
Just a thought for you when you continue to malign Keane.
From Fergusons Autobiography
Keane the "Menace"
Regarding his injury after Leeds 1997
"he proved to be the perfect patient... providing an inspiring example for one of the younger members of the staff, Terry Cooke, who was the victim of the same type of injury. They were good company for each other on the hard road back to fitness"(page 398)
(Keane the whinging prima dona superstar)
Re Turin 1999
" The minute he was booked and out of the final, he seemed to redouble his efforts to get the team there. It was the most emphatic display of SELFLESSNESS I have ever seen on a football field. Pounding every blade of grass, competing as if he would rather die of exhaustion than lose, he inspired all around him. I felt it an honour to be associated with such a player" (page 429)
(Keane the selfish prima dona)
I wont quote what it says about Kanchelskis.
From Fergusons Autobiography
Keane the "Menace"
Regarding his injury after Leeds 1997
"he proved to be the perfect patient... providing an inspiring example for one of the younger members of the staff, Terry Cooke, who was the victim of the same type of injury. They were good company for each other on the hard road back to fitness"(page 398)
(Keane the whinging prima dona superstar)
Re Turin 1999
" The minute he was booked and out of the final, he seemed to redouble his efforts to get the team there. It was the most emphatic display of SELFLESSNESS I have ever seen on a football field. Pounding every blade of grass, competing as if he would rather die of exhaustion than lose, he inspired all around him. I felt it an honour to be associated with such a player" (page 429)
(Keane the selfish prima dona)
I wont quote what it says about Kanchelskis.
Hey - dont start thinking this is some sort of Keane vs Kanchelskis battle - that would be childish.
I liked KanKan for his great footballing ability. I still like Keane as a great player and a great captain.
But this is a discussion on the possiblilties that Keano is not quite alright and he effects team morale.
Fergie obviously loves Keane. Fergie himself is not faultless and he certainly knows what to make public and what not to make public.
I'm sure if you got Hitler's autobiography, the Nazi's would actually seem pretty damn decent.
But re: Keane, of course he has his plus points. You dont need to preach to me mate. The players are probably all in love with him and love playing with him. But this thread is to discuss the situation and that includes all possibilities.
KANCHELSKIS IS NO LONGER MY FAVE PLAYER
I liked KanKan for his great footballing ability. I still like Keane as a great player and a great captain.
But this is a discussion on the possiblilties that Keano is not quite alright and he effects team morale.
Fergie obviously loves Keane. Fergie himself is not faultless and he certainly knows what to make public and what not to make public.
I'm sure if you got Hitler's autobiography, the Nazi's would actually seem pretty damn decent.
But re: Keane, of course he has his plus points. You dont need to preach to me mate. The players are probably all in love with him and love playing with him. But this thread is to discuss the situation and that includes all possibilities.
KANCHELSKIS IS NO LONGER MY FAVE PLAYER
This fiasco has resulted in our CAPTAIN having time to recuerate and come out fighting for season 2002-2003.
Chronic, you make some good points but your conclusions are full of crap. Are you sure you aren't a scouser in disguise.
Your pointing to Arsenal and Liverpool as examples of teams not needing a Keano is laughable. Are you basing it only on this season's results? What the feck have Arsenal and Liverpool done in the time Keano has been here?
<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
Chronic, you make some good points but your conclusions are full of crap. Are you sure you aren't a scouser in disguise.
Your pointing to Arsenal and Liverpool as examples of teams not needing a Keano is laughable. Are you basing it only on this season's results? What the feck have Arsenal and Liverpool done in the time Keano has been here?
<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>
Do you think I'm stupid enough to IMAGINE Roy Keane STRANGLING Kanchelskis? What kind of fool do you take me for?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you really want me to answer that?
Originally posted by dicko:
<strong>
Steven Gerard? Isn't he a bloke who throws coins at football crowds? Can't remember Keano doing that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're spitting hairs , you know EXACTLY my meaning here.
(Between you an me RKeane to clever for that he go round the back , wait for the guy who threw outside and kick the shit out of him !!)
Now for all you protectors of The Great Capitan
Originally posted by Jopub the Gooner:
<strong>
You're spitting hairs , you know EXACTLY my meaning here.
(Between you an me RKeane to clever for that he go round the back , wait for the guy who threw outside and kick the shit out of him !!)
Now for all you protectors of The Great Capitan</strong><hr></blockquote>
THAT WAS A JOKE
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
Some of the latest posts come from fans who dont know a damn thing about football as a sport and as an industry. As long as Keane keeps doing the business for us, nothing else matters. Right?
It just becomes someone else's problem right? The people criticising him are just ABUs or "scousers" right? Bullshit. Use your brains.
When Ince was here he was adored, when he left he was hated. Same with Kanchelskis. Whilst in a Utd shirt its as if they are invulnerable to criticism but its the same people who jump on the band wagon when the shirts are off the back.
Ince hated us, he wanted to leave, Kanchelskis tried to Kill Fergie! For Gods sake women!
This is the attitude that disgusts me re: football fans.
This thread isn't me against the world either and I cant be bothered to play devils advocate anymore. Its supposed to be a discussion about various possibilities and effects not me trying to convince you guys that Kanchelskis was great and Keane is a twat.
When I find that footage I will tell. Maybe no one else has said it because Utd kept problems indoors, and any footage was mistaken as a celebration or ignored. For all I know Keane was probably shouting at him and then it was all forgotten.
See thats discussing possibilities.
It just becomes someone else's problem right? The people criticising him are just ABUs or "scousers" right? Bullshit. Use your brains.
When Ince was here he was adored, when he left he was hated. Same with Kanchelskis. Whilst in a Utd shirt its as if they are invulnerable to criticism but its the same people who jump on the band wagon when the shirts are off the back.
Ince hated us, he wanted to leave, Kanchelskis tried to Kill Fergie! For Gods sake women!
This is the attitude that disgusts me re: football fans.
This thread isn't me against the world either and I cant be bothered to play devils advocate anymore. Its supposed to be a discussion about various possibilities and effects not me trying to convince you guys that Kanchelskis was great and Keane is a twat.
When I find that footage I will tell. Maybe no one else has said it because Utd kept problems indoors, and any footage was mistaken as a celebration or ignored. For all I know Keane was probably shouting at him and then it was all forgotten.
See thats discussing possibilities.