How does this Keane fiasco effect us? Discuss

ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC

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I started off thinking Keano is a victim. That his personality was used as a weapon against him by MM. I still do, a bit.

But its this explosive, aggressive attitude that embodies the spirit of Man Utd right? So weakness or strength?

I'm starting to worry that maybe his influence isnt quite so positive. Veron seems to find it tough to function alongside such a dominant personality, one who has to be the best on the pitch, above everyone else. RVN supposedly had a bust up with him also, some people suggested his dip in form was down to his row with Keane.

These are world class superstars we're talking about, not lil home grown Paul Scholes who is the kind to fade into the background. Keano might not treat them with respect as the superstars they are.

The other players may dislike him for always shouting, slagging them off in public, for being an aggressive and annoying wanker, they arent kids anymore after all, they are world class players themselves and have won just as much as he has. Just as a child learns to dispute what authority has to say (religion, parents, rules, ethics etc) and make their own decisions/opinions in life, so our players have matured. Other ex-team mates have also shown a dislike to Keano.

Keane once said that although he is captain, he hasnt exchanged phone numbers with any of the other players and they dont really come to him for help/problems. Compare this to Bruce who threw a party at his house when we won the championship - who was there for every player.

I can imagine, having played football with people who shoot off their mouth. Its very annoying and as someone who has a similar drive to win as Fergie, I know for a fact that its destructive rather then encouraging. I always want to win, I'm not quite that dad from the Fast Show, but then again I have no kids. But I certainly dont go about it the way Keane does, I prefer Beckham's Greece approach.

Its not the drive to win that gets you, its the selfishness. They jump all over you when you're feeling bad about that missed shot. Confidence = DOWN BIG STYLE. Whats wrong with a kind word in the ear to drive you onto victory?

Other things I worry about are things like "My Champions League medal means nothing to me since I wasnt there" and how let down he is by us not getting there again for his sake.

The will to succeed is in stark contrast to Ruud's "My goals mean nothing if the team is not successful".

Our team has matured from kids into a squad FULL of world class stars who have ego's of their own as well as opinions and a respect reserved only for those who deserve it and who respect them back. I dont think slagging them off in public shows them respect. They have reached the stage where they dont need a head teacher whipping them along.

Just as you would nurture any talent ala Cantona, maybe Keano's approach is starting to wear thin on these now mature players. I know I hate having people scream at me, I'd hate it even more if I was a superstar.

Instead of looking from Keanes point of view, looking at it from the other players I see some potential problems.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>

they are world class players themselves and have won just as much as he has.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Most have won more - Barcalona 1999. All the premierships don't equal that.
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ROI Have a couple of world class players..None of them are anywhere near the status of Keane.
If I had tasted being rich I could live with being poor just about summs it up.
Roy is a passionate man, he is the most important man in his life,nothing wrong with that.I guess he puts his family along side him.
Remove his single mindedness and you remove half of the man.
Half of his team mates are playing for England, France etc and being treated as they should be like athletes at their peek
ROI have a second rate attitude off the pitch, Roy has moved on from that.No looking back
 
this won't effect him at all imo. He was disappointed at first but now the world cup is out of his mind and he will do his best for the club. He is a pro who takes everything on the chin and tbh it will just make him more determined to do well next season if anything. The manager and the players at United are definately behind Keano and will back him all the way - Denis and SAF have already expressed their distress for Roy in public. The players at OT love Roy, and if Ireland think they will be better off without him, fine with me. Roy was going to concentrate on United after the tournament anyway, this break will just give him time to sort out his knee.
 
Shao

Good post mate , an interesting stance on the whole affair .

Although I disagreee with you about RK's behaviour and who's at fault on the other threads what you say here is a facinating comment .

For me what you highlight is that Keane is incredibly SELF motivated .

There has always been something very wierd and illustrative about Keane's feeling on that CL medal situation in 99.

From the moment he repeatedy droned on about his failure in not being at the nou Camp I thought this boy has some serious personal problems .

Who (after being the most influential figure to get the team to the final) would consider the winners medal to be worthless .

If asked every Utd player would agree without Keane there would have been no CL , so how can he remotely see not being there as a personal failing / nightmare. I accept there is something you lose when not being one of the eleven selected for a final but RK means something very different .

He clearly sees a defeat of any kind as startring back at square one and you have to prove yourself again from the bottom up .

Of course you don't - you simply build from where you are and learn from the mistakes .

This is often evident when Manure fail and RK in recent years strats grumbling about clear outs etc..

What is apparent is that actually not many people are taking notice . They are thinking yea h Roy yeah now shut it you're always maonig about something .

His captaincy has surprised me in that it is also eveident the rule of fear is where his game plan is and as you point out as the other players mature they

a don't need that kind of encouragement and also respect it less whn RK seems not to have moved on himself as a person .

He now seems to be the same bully as 6 years ago . THAT worked with impressionable young players but not now .

It certainly don't work if ALL you can do is scream at everybody .

As you point out captaincy is also about quiet words , at the right time , about actually having a relationship with your fellow players and it is this that surprisingly Roy DOES NOT have .

I think all this is indicative if the fact that Roy Keane is undergoing a personal crises of insecurity .

His own rule of fear is being questioned before his very eyes

He plays with players who are better technically than he is and his ONLY solace is a manager who is of the same mentallity as himself ...a screaming bully , who does , however have the respect of his players .

To cap it all when faced with the prospect of his own Irish ( surely he thought no-one would question his 'leadership' there) colleagues supporting him , incredulously as that interview highlighted , he found they wanted to see the back of him .

I think the road for RK is down from now . Respect for him , no matter what is said in the press , will be NIL . That's the fact

As a person he IS a loner . He doe not mix well with people .

That interview was incredibly revealing actually . When faced with a very calm and intelligent questioner it was obvious Roy was struggling to keep his temper and nerve .

He is clearly more comfortable shouting, bollocking and harranging people around him .

Keane is a real 'man alone' a 'solo' if you like

I'm not having a go here just an observation .

Captaincy is a difficult position .

On my own board I have often criticised Vieira and Wenger for making him captain as I could see he had nothing of the vocal qualities of the great Tony Adams .

Vieira has his qualities but captaincy is NOT one of them . 'By example' for me is not good enough

I always though RK is a great captain (AND STILL DO) as he is more vocal BUT surprising enough this is because he wants to win FOR HIMSELF NOT MAN UTD.

I do not sense a 'togetherness' about RK and Man Utd currently

Just for the record one specific point of captaincy helped greatly toward our PL victory
this year .

AT Bolton in that crucial away game a few weeks ago we started off poor and poorest of all was Vieira giving the ball away to the point of embarressment . After 25 mins something amazing happened . Vieir ahad been skipper all year and Adams had been out but come back a couple of games before .

He went up to Vieira (twice) quietly - but lip reading was not needed . The lines of 'Oi Vieira get you fecking arse in gear , £30 million or not Real Madrid , World cup winner or not , give that ball away one more time and that's it mate .... no more double for you ..sort it '

It took 20 seconds and I can tell you Patrick was shocked to the core ( you don't know it on here but PV IS a bit of a prima donna ) he'd been skipper all year and lolloped around for most of the season waiting to finalise a move to Spain
and here was this old git shouting quietly if you get my meaning .

There was no histrinonics and arm waving from Adams . No screaming .

Maybe if he'd spoken to Parlour Edu there may have been but he realised what Vieira (an explosive character) needed at that time .

From that point Vieira was different he did not waste a ball and was the colossus we all know till the last game .

As it happened I thought thank feck Tony bout time someone said that .

Just an example of captaincy / intelligence - not the rule of bullying fear .

I digress

There's more to come about Roy I'm afraid and I think we're tipping the ice berg meself

He is a troubled man and one morning in a few days time he is gonna wake up, watch the world cup on TV and feel suicidal

Very sad
 
Sorry to monopolise Shao but there's an interesting parallel with Vieira here .

For the last couple of years Vieira has been bleating on about "we are not good enough " in Europe we are nothing etc etc..in "big games we are not there" the "personel is not up to standard" etc etc ...

Petit ....Overmars .

Since the year after we did the double in 98 they stopped playing saying similar things .

We lost to Galatasaray in Eufa final .

Have a guess who was absent in losing THAT final .??

Have a guess who went missing after that .??

Have aguess who got fecked off to Barcalona and won feck all when they realised you have to keep working ?

Have a guess who has ranted about Arsenal's lack of ambition this glorious last season ?

Have a guess who has been 'missing' for most of the season and planning his Spanish holidays .?

Have a guess who's been pulled up by his laces about two months ago and had it pointed out to him that he was one of the main reasons why we would win feckall again unless he got his attitude sorted ?

ALthough I don't think Roy is guilty of not putting in less than 100% (unlike Vieira)

It's likely that the players will NOT respond to him like he demands because he has no real communication with his colleagues .

And THAT is his problem .

Advisoriably speaking , it's time SAF had the quiet word with your skipper and pointed out about looking in the mirror before he went world wide gobtrotting with critiscm of colleagues.

Many of you are wrong in another assumption - RK would not be a good manager . He has shown he would openly lambast anyone who got in the line of fire . Again first rule of management protect your players and both strong points of SAF and AW - even to the point of stupidity at times

Maybe I should be wishing that you groom him to take over from SAF ;)
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>Sell Keano

;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not joking about the negatives I see regarding Keane. The captain should be a column of authority the players can approach when the manager doesnt fit the bill.

In this circumstance it would seem Keane would be worse than Fergie.

The main problem with us this year was not playing as a team hence mass disorganisation all round. The squad also seems alot more seperated since 99, none of that team spirit that we see at Liverpool.

Team spirit can improve performances 50%.

I respect the way the gooners have built up a squad and spirit based on respect.
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Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>


. The squad also seems alot more seperated since 99, none of that team spirit that we see at Liverpool.

Team spirit can improve performances 50%.

.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Interesting point..

I've always felt your team spirit and use of "siege mentality" was one of your great strengths...

Is it so strong thesedays with blame being banded about and reports of incidents re Veron etc?
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Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>

I'm not joking about the negatives I see regarding Keane. The captain should be a column of authority the players can approach when the manager doesnt fit the bill.

In this circumstance it would seem Keane would be worse than Fergie.

The main problem with us this year was not playing as a team hence mass disorganisation all round. The squad also seems alot more seperated since 99, none of that team spirit that we see at Liverpool.

Team spirit can improve performances 50%.

I respect the way the gooners have built up a squad and spirit based on respect.</strong><hr></blockquote>

In every team there are players not getting on - only natural when you have a group of 20+ people. And throughout the last decade (our most successful period ever) we've had players not getting on.

This doesn't necessarily stop us having a good team spirit.

The captain's role is most overrated role in a football team. You're a leader or you're not - doesn't matter who wears the armband.
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Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>
This doesn't necessarily stop us having a good team spirit.

The captain's role is most overrated role in a football team. You're a leader or you're not - doesn't matter who wears the armband.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That would be fine if he sort of kept himself to himself like Eric, but its the actual disruptions he may cause that are the problem, not his failings as a captain.
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Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>

That would be fine if he sort of kept himself to himself like Eric, but its the actual disruptions he may cause that are the problem, not his failings as a captain.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Keano has been with the club for 10 years - why would he be more of a disruption now than say 3 years ago when we won the treble?
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Read the posts - the players have matured into world class SUPERSTARS.

Essentially they are superior to Keane. Fergie is their mentor so they accept that sort of stuff but who is Keane? A big bully?

Your post sounds pretty daft as it is - surely things change in 10 years.

My point is simple, as people grow older they start to hate the kind of treatment Keane gives people. Kids accept it, but adults usually dont, especially from their equal or inferior.

Surely you have some colleagues who are your equal in rank and ability, what would you do if you did something wrong and they tried to murder you and blame you across the whole nation for letting them plus millions of other people down.

Words popping into my mind include: who the Hell are you to shout at me? shut the hell up, you suck etc etc.

The teams siege mentality was good, but Keane's one man sieqe mentality wont be. He is supposed to keep the team together, not be some leering geezer with a cane ready to whip people in line.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>Read the posts - the players have matured into world class SUPERSTARS.

Essentially they are superior to Keane. Fergie is their mentor so they accept that sort of stuff but who is Keane? A big bully?

Your post sounds pretty daft as it is - surely things change in 10 years.

My point is simple, as people grow older they start to hate the kind of treatment Keane gives people. Kids accept it, but adults usually dont, especially from their equal or inferior.

Surely you have some colleagues who are your equal in rank and ability, what would you do if you did something wrong and they tried to murder you and blame you across the whole nation for letting them plus millions of other people down.

Words popping into my mind include: who the Hell are you to shout at me? shut the hell up, you suck etc etc.

The teams siege mentality was good, but Keane's one man sieqe mentality wont be. He is supposed to keep the team together, not be some leering geezer with a cane ready to whip people in line.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ask every Man United player who

1) The best player is
2) Who the leader of the team is (note, not the captain)
3) Who they have the most respect for

The answer for all three questions would be Roy Keane

The only potential problem I can see is when new, especially foreign, players are coming in

But every team needs a leader, and IMO we're lucky because we've got one of the best

Keano is a winner, and that brings with it positive and negative sides. Rather than it being a problem having someone like that around, I reckon our problem is that we haven't got enough of them around. In the current team we haven't got enough strong personalities with this winning mentality. Keano is probably the only one, although Ruud seems to have it in him - just give him time.
Compare that to previous sides, e.g. the '94 team who had strong personalities and winners like Schmeichel, Pally, Bruce, Robbo, Ince, Keano, Hughes and Cantona - I tell you what, there was no love lost between most of them! Furthermore, we won the treble in 1999 with plenty of players that wasn't on talking terms off the pitch: Teddy and Cole, Schmeichel and Keano, Teddy and Keano.

If we had more players like Keano, we would have been far better off!
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I find it amazing that the Irish team - not management but the team - has been putting out these statements about not wanting Keane back at all.

Amazing. Isn't it McCarthy who should be deciding these things and being seen to say so? Surely it's not the team's place to be putting out statements about anything at all!

Although Roy was wrong in the way he handled things, I am starting to understand his reaction over the amateur way he's been managed. At the end of the day, the person responsible for team matters is McCarthy, not Keane. He's the one who's most screwed up.
 
AEBM - you're right. We had alot more vocal characters back then, but we also had alot less world class players.

Its all good knowing what the fans think, I think Keane is the first name on the team sheet and the best CM in the world.

However I am open to the possibility that the players dont feel the same. THATS what we're discussing here.

You'll notice that alot of great players need coaxing gently. Other players like Irwin or Gary, Butt etc who aren't quite world class superstars take this shouting better for some reason.

But the likes of Cantona, Veron, maybe even Beckham Giggs etc dont like it. I dont know why, but the players who are really on another level need another approach, gently does it etc.

Its a viable argument is it not?

Beckham is a winner and he transforms England. The English cant wait to get him back whereas in Ireland, they seem relieved to see Keane go.

I'm sorry but as a Man Utd fan looking at these things HAS to make me question whats going on.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>AEBM - you're right. We had alot more vocal characters back then, but we also had alot less world class players.

Its all good knowing what the fans think, I think Keane is the first name on the team sheet and the best CM in the world.

However I am open to the possibility that the players dont feel the same. THATS what we're discussing here.

You'll notice that alot of great players need coaxing gently. Other players like Irwin or Gary, Butt etc who aren't quite world class superstars take this shouting better for some reason.

But the likes of Cantona, Veron, maybe even Beckham Giggs etc dont like it. I dont know why, but the players who are really on another level need another approach, gently does it etc.

Its a viable argument is it not?

Beckham is a winner and he transforms England. The English cant wait to get him back whereas in Ireland, they seem relieved to see Keane go.

I'm sorry but as a Man Utd fan looking at these things HAS to make me question whats going on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I see your points, and I think it's a valid question

(BTW, I ment every Man United player would say Keano is the best player, the leader and the player the have most respect for)

As I said, it could be a problem for new players coming in. But IMO it's a question for them to adopt - that's the way things are.

Oh, and Giggsy doesn't find it a problem at all, he respect Keano for what he is - although they do have their arguments. It's a mutual respect there. I reckon that's the case with Becks as well.
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The one thing missing from this argument is Fergie's role, surely if he sees players being affected by Roy's enthusiactic ( ahem ;) )approach he would have a word with him to cool it. Ferguson manages Utd not Keano.
 
Originally posted by nickm:
<strong>I find it amazing that the Irish team - not management but the team - has been putting out these statements about not wanting Keane back at all.

Amazing. Isn't it McCarthy who should be deciding these things and being seen to say so? Surely it's not the team's place to be putting out statements about anything at all!

Although Roy was wrong in the way he handled things, I am starting to understand his reaction over the amateur way he's been managed. At the end of the day, the person responsible for team matters is McCarthy, not Keane. He's the one who's most screwed up.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd agree with you EXCEPT Keane made this one personal--him versus McCarthy. A lot of posters on this site (and, one may assume, fans of the Irish team) seemed to agree with this assessment and sided with Keane, insulting not only Mick's managerial abilities, such as they are, but his skills as a player and general manhood as well. More statements from McCarthy would only feed the frenzy--convincing these people that it was nothing more than the extension of some personal vendetta against St. Roy of Cork. It was both proper and necessary for the remaining 22 players to indicate to the populace that the situation was different than that portrayed by Keane and not merely a bit of caprice by a quivering shell of a man intimidated by the Great Captain.
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Well put mate , they obviously can't stand the bloody sight nor sound of him

I'm sure more will come out in the wash .

I just read that untill late last night McCarthy was waiting for the promised apology phone call and all would have been back on track for Roy to play on Saturday .

It never came .

Roy the Wanker
 
Keano shows up to play. he doesn't show up for the cash.

he makes good money yes, but that's not his motivation. money is money, football is football. he's a cut and dry type with an attitude. bottom line is: Roy Kean knows how to win.

now, mix Keano with a bunch of FAI amateur retards & Irish players who got no friggin' clue what it takes to win a medal, along with a manager that's somewhat sensitive and obviously, there will be a problemo (i'm learning Spanish hehe).

PROBLEMO!! <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" />

seriously, when guys like McGrath and Irwin who can relate to Keane and back him, you know something ain't right.
 
Things have changed at United over the past ten years. A group of promising kids have come into the team and are now superstars. They need to be treated differently now than when they broke into the team.

Fergie has complained about a lack of hunger. After the treble and two strolls to the premiership some players might have thought it was too easy. Didn't Becks say he hoped we could win the treble and go through the season undefeated?

Perhaps some players think all they need to do is turn up and they'll win. I accept that they have great ability but that attitude is not good enough, especially for someone like Keano.

The ABUs will complain but I believe we are the best team in the country. After seven premierships in nine years the intensity drops. Not a lot but enough to make a difference. Perhaps we need changes to lift the intensity. Perhaps that's why Fergie bought Veron.

Keano is the player most likely to give 100% commitment all the time - at training and in his personal life as well as on the pitch. His commitment is no different from when he joined us despite all the medals.
 
I'd agree with you EXCEPT Keane made this one personal--him versus McCarthy. A lot of posters on this site (and, one may assume, fans of the Irish team) seemed to agree with this assessment and sided with Keane, insulting not only Mick's managerial abilities, such as they are, but his skills as a player and general manhood as well. More statements from McCarthy would only feed the frenzy--convincing these people that it was nothing more than the extension of some personal vendetta against St. Roy of Cork. It was both proper and necessary for the remaining 22 players to indicate to the populace that the situation was different than that portrayed by Keane and not merely a bit of caprice by a quivering shell of a man intimidated by the Great Captain. <hr></blockquote>

It doesn't change the fact that the ultimate responsibility for ensuring players want to play for him, is McCarthy's.

Whatever the roots of it, McCarthy was (a) wrong to accuse Keane of faking an injury (b) hugely wrong not to take Keane aside prior to the clear the air meeting and agree a common front for the rest of the team and (c) wrong to have the rest of the team put out statements about not wanting Keane back. This last act was stupid because it paints McCarthy into a corner, makes him look weak and makes the team unmanageable if Keane ever was to return.

I am not absolving Keane of blame here but this is a man who has played under two of the greatest club managers of all time. He clearly had no respect for McCarthy and that is ultimately McCarthy's failure, not Keane's.
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Originally posted by nickm:
<strong>
It doesn't change the fact that the ultimate responsibility for ensuring players want to play for him, is McCarthy's.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, at least he managed to get 22 of the 23 to want to play for him.
:)
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Not hard to get a bunch of 2nd raters to turn out for a 2nd rate manager.

I'd take the Ireland team's comments more seriously if they had more than zero medals between them.
 
Originally posted by nickm:
<strong>Not hard to get a bunch of 2nd raters to turn out for a 2nd rate manager.

I'd take the Ireland team's comments more seriously if they had more than zero medals between them.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And how many do you have, or should we not take your comments seriously, either? :)
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I think the CL medal issue only highlights how disappointed he was at missing that game (i.e. THAT final, winning THAT way). He is as demanding on himself as he is relative to others, which is not bad.

True, Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, the Nevilles... Roy was probably the right kind of captain to help their upbringing and creating a drive/determination/never-say-die factor. If he arrived at OT today and captained them like that they wouldn't appreciate it but that si not the case, he has grown in them, they have seen what he can do, they have learned to leave with it because they know, inside the pitch, they can always count with him.

But you do have a very good point as regards outsiders coming in. Strong famous characters with no prima donna element would probably appreciate him (e.g. Blanc or someone like Zidane) but the average superstar wouldn't.

-Say Nesta comes, can you see him giving a shit about him ranting at him? How many glamourous players would that apply to?

Most.

Just take the several Kemo/Malaysian poster picks and start crossing out, you won't be left with much.

Now, is Keane the problem? He is at fault in some way. But then, do we really want all these wankers playing for us? Do we want glamour boys? Do we want to be Vialli's Chelsea? I'd rather stick with Keane as a filtering element who will stop us from ever turning into that!

In fact, this very well applies to the whole Veron problem. What if he comes back from the WC as Champion and WC midfield wizard? Do you think he will give Keane any time? He will probably give us another indifferent season and a lot of squabbling.

I'm not trying to side with Keane on something that he probably has to improve. But I definitely do side with his drive and will to win and a player who has no time or respect for that, in fact one that does not appreciate that, is a player I do not want to see playing for United. <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
 
Originally posted by nickm:
<strong>

(a) wrong to accuse Keane of faking an injury

(b) hugely wrong not to take Keane aside prior to the clear the air meeting and agree a common front for the rest of the team and

(c) wrong to have the rest of the team put out statements about not wanting Keane back. This last act was stupid because it paints McCarthy into a corner, makes him look weak and makes the team unmanageable if Keane ever was to return.

I am not absolving Keane of blame here but this is a man who has played under two of the greatest club managers of all time. He clearly had no respect for McCarthy and that is ultimately McCarthy's failure, not Keane's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

When I heard about the faking an injury comment it actually reminded me of "A few good men" and how Tom Cruise gets the volatile Jack Nicholson to make a complete prat of himself. Certainly looking for the confrontation from the outset!

Still, why don't we drop this. We all agree the FAI is pants, we agree McCarthy is a pussy and the FAI deserve him as their manager, we agree <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> is totally nuts and reacted in an unacceptable -yet understandable- way and we agree Ireland are hopeless without him. Case closed.

Shao has actually raised one of the most interesting non-WC/United-relevant topics in a while, let's stick with it!
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Jesus Christ,
The fecking Keane knockers coming out of the wood work all because he has a fall out with a shit manager. As for the other stuff give us some concrete examples not just Keane bollicking somebody on the field.

Go off and play cricket for feck sake.

Nobody liked Bobby Charlton - allegedly.

What a load of shit about the champions league medal.

Just ask Laurent Blanc about how he felt when he didn't play in the final.

Alleged bust up with Van N, Allegedly not giving phone numbers. What sort of dumb discussion is this.

I am going off to Japan friday pissed off as it is. I cant wait until this all comes out in the wash. There is no doubt in my mind that it will vindicate Keane. McCarthy has always been a spiteful, jealous bastard. He has managed to fall out with McGrath, Irwin and now Keane. Make up yer own mind.

As for this Keane should be a gentleman. Well contempt is appropriate.


:mad: :rolleyes:
 
As for the Irish team, they did some serious backtracking on the Keane statement. The statement was in the context of another threat by McCarthy. Work it out. Dont just lap up what it says in The SUN
 
Ok I'm in one of my moods so here is goes, The Dutch/English sound advice and brilliant comment:

Roy Keane a man who isn't scared to say what he is thinking and to be honest he is use to the best at United so the Ireland trip should have been hell for him.

And secondly coming to the title of this discussion and well maybe completely making no use for it any more, It will make Roy Keane even more determent to win everything next season.

So in fact, Ireland and Mick, thnx!!! :D
 
And Jopup the Gooner in your bullshit post where do you get all this personal info about Keane - he is a loner etc. You live in Wiltshire. What the feck do you know about his life. This is all nonsense personal attacks by amateur psychobabblists.

Did you see the whole interview? No I thought not.
 
I saw the WHOLE interview and Roy Keane is one fecked up mother .

It does'nt take a genius ( and very clearly YOU are not )to spot that son.

Everything I said there is known fact and common knowledge .

Incredible the lot of yers . You're support of him is utter insanity .

He may be a great player but anybody with half a brain trying to make out he's not a fecking thug and bully is off their rocker .

I wonder how you'd all feel if we were talking about ..say.......Steven Gerrard ( if he were like Keane ). Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

nickm

"Not hard to get a bunch of 2nd raters to turn out for a 2nd rate manager.
I'd take the Ireland team's comments more seriously if they had more than zero medals between them."

Just who the feck do think YOU are?

'2nd rate' manager who got them to the world cup at the expense of Holland - one of the best teams on the planet"

Yea right 2nd rate you know your stuff mate

Of course that honour must have fell singlehanded to the great Roy

"this is a man who has played under two of the greatest club managers of all time. He clearly had no respect for McCarthy and that is ultimately McCarthy's failure, not Keane's."

"It doesn't change the fact that the ultimate responsibility for ensuring players want to play for him, is McCarthy's.

Of course you noticed how none of the other players had ANY respect for MM too ay ?

Staggering - you talk about "respect"

I'd hate to your manager in that case.

Keane (it may have escaped your attention) is a player and MM is the manager END OF .

As a player you WILL get bollickings - public or otherwise - no matter who the manager is .

Keane has for too long had is gigantic ego fed by SAF and some medals thrown in have made it impossible for him to work with anybody else .

What a total an utter knob and the same for anybody that remotely defend his antics .

_______________________________________________

And Redermo whatever your fecking name is - IF you took the trouble to read my posts in response to Shao's you'd have notice most of it was a lucid and coherent comment about RK's mental approach to captaincy at your club and your players response or NOT , to it and captaincy in general .

You started this abuse so .....

As for Pschobabble you should take a refresher course son , maybe at the Roy Keane School of Intimidation and Fear - Manchester : - student numbers noticeably falling in recent years !

You won feckall FULL feckING STOP
 
Originally posted by Jopub the Gooner:
<strong>I saw the WHOLE interview and Roy Keane is one fecked up mother .

It does'nt take a genius ( and very clearly YOU are not )to spot that son.

Everything I said there is known fact and common knowledge .

Incredible the lot of yers . You're support of him is utter insanity .

He may be a great player but anybody with half a brain trying to make out he's not a fecking thug and bully is off their rocker .

I wonder how you'd all feel if we were talking about ..say.......Steven Gerrard ( if he were like Keane ). Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

nickm

"Not hard to get a bunch of 2nd raters to turn out for a 2nd rate manager.
I'd take the Ireland team's comments more seriously if they had more than zero medals between them."

Just who the feck do think YOU are?

'2nd rate' manager who got them to the world cup at the expense of Holland - one of the best teams on the planet"

Yea right 2nd rate you know your stuff mate

Of course that honour must have fell singlehanded to the great Roy

"this is a man who has played under two of the greatest club managers of all time. He clearly had no respect for McCarthy and that is ultimately McCarthy's failure, not Keane's."

"It doesn't change the fact that the ultimate responsibility for ensuring players want to play for him, is McCarthy's.

Of course you noticed how none of the other players had ANY respect for MM too ay ?

Staggering - you talk about "respect"

I'd hate to your manager in that case.

Keane (it may have escaped your attention) is a player and MM is the manager END OF .

As a player you WILL get bollickings - public or otherwise - no matter who the manager is .

Keane has for too long had is gigantic ego fed by SAF and some medals thrown in have made it impossible for him to work with anybody else .

What a total an utter knob and the same for anybody that remotely defend his antics .

_______________________________________________

And Redermo whatever your fecking name is - IF you took the trouble to read my posts in response to Shao's you'd have notice most of it was a lucid and coherent comment about RK's mental approach to captaincy at your club and your players response or NOT , to it and captaincy in general .

You started this abuse so .....

As for Pschobabble you should take a refresher course son , maybe at the Roy Keane School of Intimidation and Fear - Manchester : - student numbers noticeably falling in recent years !

You won feckall FULL feckING STOP</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you often go into other peoples houses ranting and raving like that?
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Jopub the Gooner:
<strong>Not often - only when somebody starts abusive crap.

It was a good debate until now .

That's the nature of message boards I s'pose</strong><hr></blockquote>

So because someone started abusive crap, you had to resort to that as well?

That IMO makes you no better than the person you seem to know everything about, Roy Keane..

And what's all this about 'you can't take it', 'you won feck all' etc?? Don't make you look more stupid than you already does..
Click to expand...
 
Hey Jopub, you - a fan of a rival team - come onto a United forum, trash our captain, hero and best player, speculate about his psychological state based on a TV interview, observations you are unqualified to make (unless you're a practising clinician - no, didn't think so), and you have the arrogance to ask who the feck *I* am?!

You seriously expect to come onto this forum and see anything other than 100% support for our captain?

You're just another one of the mob who blindly turns out for a public lynching, especially when it's a United player involved. Beckham was the last one and I'll bet you're one of the ones who enjoyed joining in his humiliation then.

&gt; '2nd rate' manager who got them to the world
&gt; cup at the expense of Holland - one of the
&gt; best teams on the planet"

First rate managers don't somehow manage to engineer a situation where his captain and best player is forced to walk out because of the amateurishness of the team's preparation and ineptness of the process of dealing with his concerns.
 
"Hey Jopub, you - a fan of a rival team - come onto a United forum, trash our captain, hero and best player, speculate about his psychological state based on a TV interview, observations you are unqualified to make (unless you're a practising clinician - no, didn't think so), and you have the arrogance to ask who the feck *I* am?!"

" a fan of a rival team" heh heh you really don't like the word 'RIVAL' do you ? the fear of any threat really digs at your ribs . What's your problem ? If you don't like rival fans who may disagree with you then you should shut up shop and have Man Utd fans only patting each other on the back all day belieiving how wonderful the world is with Man Utd at the top of the world list etc etc etc . ( Christ, you probably would prefer that - no doubt )

Well on with my response ............

I DO have the right to question you as you have jumped straight down my throat simply for having the audacity to question the motives behaviour and mentallity of your captain . It's my right like anybody else mate .

If you think that as observers we who make comment about a players mentality have to be neuro surgeons then there's an awful lot of us here - stupid comment : nono :

"You seriously expect to come onto this forum and see anything other than 100% support for our captain? "

YES I DO . I seriously expect to come on here and see Man Utd fans questioning the motives of their pivotal best player and skipper when he behaves in such a manner as he has . IDO expect you to offer less than 100% to him should any of you find he's beena tosser , for want of a better phrase .I have noticed that there are actually a good few of you who do feel he's been utterly wrong and irresponsible in his actions

I question motives of say Vieira and others often and maybe I'm mistaken I thought that's what true fans do - love their club but question everything about it too . Called passion in some quarters .

"You're just another one of the mob who blindly turns out for a public lynching, especially when it's a United player involved. Beckham was the last one and I'll bet you're one of the ones who enjoyed joining in his humiliation then."

(Paranoia that's called -in my 'unqualified capacity' mind !)

WRONG Beckham is a great player and I did in no way gloat earlier in the season - indeed the reverse - I was most concerned on behalf of my England support that his form seemed to dip like it did and of course the subsequent injury. Thankfully it could turn out good .

"'2nd rate' manager who got them to the world
cup at the expense of Holland - one of the
best teams on the planet"

First rate managers don't somehow manage to engineer a situation where his captain and best player is forced to walk out because of the amateurishness of the team's preparation and ineptness of the process of dealing with his concerns."

Well a couple of points - if you have a player who is nothing but trouble and undermining everything you plan for you DO engineer a situation whereby you can have his arse for garters .

Have you ever managed in any capacity ?

<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />

If you have one person who can destroy everything you'd get rid of him .

It looks like Roy was up for that so maybe MM got rid .

I think SAF did a similar thing with Stam <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> No ?

There , no neurosis , Phd's or inner self analysis required , just debate . Now I know I'm on your board mate and all 'that' but a little more dignity and respect from you might also not go amiss too .

You treat me with some respect and I'll do the same . <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
 
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