How do you convince players who are enjoying a very comfortable living, to care about winning trophies again?

[Chesterlestreet]

We may have had some genuine cases over the years (since SAF retired, I mean) of players being content just to pick up their (undeservedly high) salaries - but I basically agree with @JPRouve: the problem is a lack of quality rather than a lack of motivation.

We've had too few genuinely top class players - and we've never had a top, top manager (of the sort who could have elevated the good-but-certainly-not-great category of players to a higher level) - in the post-SAF era.

 

[Champ]

Because this « world cup winner » is not a winner and doesn’t care about winning. He was carried in this French team, every French knows it. He sprends loosing mentality by not carrying about winning or not as long as they have their paycheck. Mourinho was right, he was a parasite. A parasite can reckon one of his own after all.

Right you are.

 

[Champ]

Winning a World Cup say less about a player then performing every week for his club. Consistency is the most important thing and Pogba has none.
Ronaldo and Messi never won a World Cup. They were the best because they were consistent, scoring 50 goals a season all along their careers, and hated loosing.
Ferguson instilled this hating to lose mentality in his players and this club. We were carried by strong personalities who hated to lose.

Now we have jokers of players who only cares about the last clip and gold chain with their name on it.
Every good and professional player walking into this dressing room must feel depressed. Poor Varane…the guy won 4 champions league, one World Cup and he is walking into this joke of a dressing room.

I'm glad you know what the United dressing room is like.
I guess you must have seen it when you were in there last after a game!!

Seriously, some of the takes on here are quite frankly hilarious.

 

[Paxi]

This is nothing new. Players have always been happy with being ‘okay’. Usually, we didn’t fecking sign them. There isn’t much more to it.

 

[Vidyoyo]

We need Clubber Lang to come in and shake them up. It worked for Rocky in Rocky 3

 

[redmanx]

Pay them by results; its too late to do that with the current squads contracts but once its time for new contracts pay them by results.

 

[JPRouve]

Pay them by results; its too late to do that with the current squads contracts but once its time for new contracts pay them by results.

Why would players accept that? Their pay would depend on the ability of the people building the team or the fitness, performances of someone else.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Pay them by results; its too late to do that with the current squads contracts but once its time for new contracts pay them by results.

I don't think any top club does that, sure there are bonuses for individual or collective performance but no top player would agree to a low wage, big bonus type of contract.
With all the greedy footballing agents out there that try to get millions for their clients when a big club comes knocking, it's always a risk to pay high wages to underperfoming players, it's all about the ability to choose BEFORE signing a player and we are very bad at doing that.

SAF was a mastermind at choosing his players and motivating them. Now, when already have an established group of high paid players that don't care if they win or lose we have a mountain to climb in terms of instilling a winning mentality at our club.

 

[Redfrog]

I'm glad you know what the United dressing room is like.
I guess you must have seen it when you were in there last after a game!!

Seriously, some of the takes on here are quite frankly hilarious.

Yeah, all the leaks are not coming from nothing.
We finished second last year and this season players are downing tools.
They are doing the same with every manager.

But everything is all right.

You know better then Rooney I suppose. It was him speaking about Pogba and Lingard. He knows the mentality of this players much better then you so I will tend to believe him. They don’t care about losing. I am baffled there is still some people to support this jokers.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah, all the leaks are not coming from nothing.
We finished second last year and this season players are downing tools.
They are doing the same with every manager.

But everything is all right.

You know better then Rooney I suppose. It was him speaking about Pogba and Lingard. He knows the mentality of this players much better then you so I will tend to believe him. They don’t care about losing. I am baffled there is still some people to support this jokers.

You realize that it's not what Rooney said or implied?

 

[MrSingh2002]

If Liverpool after winning a Premier League and Champions Leagues can play hardball with their Captain Henderson and arguably one of their best ever players in Salah, why are we paying out obscene amounts for average ass players?

We have to continue in the right direction signing young talented players who can grow with us. The Cavani, Ronaldo signings need to stop. Varane was worth it as we need Leaders and at 28 he's still got alot to give.

We shouldn't be signing anyone over that age. We need 20-26 year olds in the squad.

 

[Redfrog]

You realize that it's not what Rooney said or implied?

He just said that while he was fuming about a defeat he found Pogba and Jlingz dancing in the dressing room. What does that mean ?

 

[JPRouve]

He just said that while he was fuming about a defeat he found Pogba and Jlingz dancing in the dressing room. What does that mean ?

It means nothing, at least that's what Rooney thinks.

https://www.news24.com/sport/Soccer...d-my-old-school-mentality-kicking-in-20210705

 

[Redfrog]

It means nothing, at least that's what Rooney thinks.

I don’t believe it. Why say it then ?
It’s like Ronaldo said when he arrived at the club about the young players and the motivation they have to find in themselves.
It’s not about generations at the end, it’s about being driven and wanting to win. City’s and Pools players are the same generation but they work for each other’s on the pitch and want to win.

 

[JPRouve]

I don’t believe it. Why say it then ?
It’s like Ronaldo said when he arrived at the club about the young players and the motivation they have to find in themselves.
It’s not about generations at the end, it’s about being driven and wanting to win. City’s and Pools players are the same generation but they work for each other’s on the pitch and want to win.

No one ask you to believe just read the actual quotes, not what MEN decided to take from something that is almost a year old.

 

[the_cliff]

I think this posts assumes that the players are of the ability to win trophies. The problem is we have players that are paid as if they have the ability to win trophies but don't. Even if they had the MJ/CR7 mentality they wouldn't win shit because unfortunately they don't have the ability compared to that of City/Liverpool/Chelsea. It's actually quite simple.

 

[Wolf1992]

Because this « world cup winner » is not a winner and doesn’t care about winning. He was carried in this French team, every French knows it. He sprends loosing mentality by not carrying about winning or not as long as they have their paycheck. Mourinho was right, he was a parasite. A parasite can reckon one of his own after all.

Carried?

Look it's ok dislike Pogba if you think he hasn't delivered as expected for United, but to say that he gets carried in France it's 100% bullshit.
He is always delivering whenever France wins, they do look worse without him btw.

Put your feelings aside

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

The premise of that point implies that our group of players is significantly better than 5th in the league when it clearly isn't. Our players aren't underachieving.

This.

 

[Zlatattack]

Stop rewarding failure. We hide failure behind rebuilds. Chelsea change managers like seasonal clothing and they maintain success. They don't reward failure.

Shit managers get moved on. Shit players get moved on.

Name me a single player who's been in our squad more than 2 years who deserves to be here? A single one who over 3,4,5 years has been consistently good enough for our starting 11?

David De Gea - probably.

Other than that nobody.

Also we seem to think it's okay to not win cup competitions. I've always maintained its important to win trophies - even shit ones. It shows aspiration.

 

[Tap]

There is no need to convince them. Get rid of those unmotivated and unfocused under-performers.

The club also needs a slap in the face to stop rewarding these underachievers with extended contracts and ridiculous wages.

 

[Beans]

There is no need to convince them. Get rid of those unmotivated and unfocused under-performers.

The club also needs a slap in the face to stop rewarding these underachievers with extended contracts and ridiculous wages.

That says it all.

 

[Champ]

Yeah, all the leaks are not coming from nothing.
We finished second last year and this season players are downing tools.
They are doing the same with every manager.

But everything is all right.

You know better then Rooney I suppose. It was him speaking about Pogba and Lingard. He knows the mentality of this players much better then you so I will tend to believe him. They don’t care about losing. I am baffled there is still some people to support this jokers.

Rooney made a quip about two players dancing, and you take that to mean that there's a major issue in the dressing room?!

I for one am baffled also that people are supporting the team they support, just bizarre.

 

[Red For Ever]

If they need convincing
They should not be at United.

 

[Judas]

If Liverpool after winning a Premier League and Champions Leagues can play hardball with their Captain Henderson and arguably one of their best ever players in Salah, why are we paying out obscene amounts for average ass players?

We have to continue in the right direction signing young talented players who can grow with us. The Cavani, Ronaldo signings need to stop. Varane was worth it as we need Leaders and at 28 he's still got alot to give.

We shouldn't be signing anyone over that age. We need 20-26 year olds in the squad.

Because at the end of the day they're a successful team with the chance to win things. The club hold all the cards because players want to play for them, including the ones who you mentioned. We're not doing well, we have very little power, we can't promise trophies, only money. We have been a desperate club when its come to renewing contracts the last few years, especially over very ordinary talents.

We'll over pay again in the summer, with no CL football once again, the club will see it as the only way to get who we want.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

You say how can players be motivated to play for trophies? Give them a realistic chance to win a trophy for a start.

Don’t reward failing as so many posters have correctly pointed out. The Glazers have consistently allowed us to be knocked out of tournaments and finish poorly with no repercussions. Example, when the owners didn’t sack Ole and allowed the team to sink to the bottom and be laughed at by rival fans. The players clearly lost all motivation as the league and top 4 were basically gone. Bring back some standards

 

[Redfrog]

Rooney made a quip about two players dancing, and you take that to mean that there's a major issue in the dressing room?!

I for one am baffled also that people are supporting the team they support, just bizarre.

We haven’t won anything major in nine years. We have spend more then a billion, with one of the highest paybill in football. Managers have come and gone, players are the same. It’s time they take the blame.
Pogba will leave a second time for free and has done nothing for us. He can’t even make an effort on the pitch.

I support the club not players who should be gone long time ago.

The dressing room is fine…just look at the way we play and the results… everything is fine, we should stick with the players who don’t give a go on the pitch.

 

[Redfrog]

You say how can players be motivated to play for trophies? Give them a realistic chance to win a trophy for a start.

Don’t reward failing as so many posters have correctly pointed out. The Glazers have consistently allowed us to be knocked out of tournaments and finish poorly with no repercussions. Example, when the owners didn’t sack Ole and allowed the team to sink to the bottom and be laughed at by rival fans. The players clearly lost all motivation as the league and top 4 were basically gone. Bring back some standards

Yeah, and it should start with the players. If they don’t perform they should find another club. Too easy to put everything on the manager. If the manager take all the blame, players become complacent.

 

[Redfrog]

Because at the end of the day they're a successful team with the chance to win things. The club hold all the cards because players want to play for them, including the ones who you mentioned. We're not doing well, we have very little power, we can't promise trophies, only money. We have been a desperate club when its come to renewing contracts the last few years, especially over very ordinary talents.

We'll over pay again in the summer, with no CL football once again, the club will see it as the only way to get who we want.

We should stop it even if it means taking a hit for few years. Recrut young talents who want to play, not players who are here for the paycheck.
If a player play hardballs toward contract while he has little impact on the pitch, we should sell him.
Problem is , that’s a sportive point of view and the glazers have done the opposite.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Yeah, and it should start with the players. If they don’t perform they should find another club. Too easy to put everything on the manager. If the manager take all the blame, players become complacent.

I fully agree. I don’t put it on the manager though, it’s the board who set the standards. Even if a player performs terribly, they still get a huge pay rise. It takes away any motivation to give their best, it’s wrong but they are human beings and can loose motivation when they become rich.

 

[Redfrog]

I fully agree. I don’t put it on the manager though, it’s the board who set the standards. Even if a player performs terribly, they still get a huge pay rise. It takes away any motivation to give their best, it’s wrong but they are human beings and can loose motivation when they become rich.

It’s the « protecting the asset » policy. Never seen something as bad as it. Difficult to believe they are successful money men upstairs. They never sell in time and we give huge contracts to past it players you need to pay to leave. I believe it’s just laziness.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Because at the end of the day they're a successful team with the chance to win things. The club hold all the cards because players want to play for them, including the ones who you mentioned. We're not doing well, we have very little power, we can't promise trophies, only money. We have been a desperate club when its come to renewing contracts the last few years, especially over very ordinary talents.

We'll over pay again in the summer, with no CL football once again, the club will see it as the only way to get who we want.

In that case I'd hope we don't go after established stars who might be coming for the payday. We need younger players who are coming here because they're ambitious and want to be the best player they can be.

Successes like Javier Hernandez, Evra, Vidic, De Gea, Bruno, Sancho or Van Nistelrooy should be the model.

Players joining us from smaller clubs who still have a point to prove. It's rare you get a player from a top club with the hunger to be the best they can be. Exceptions might be characters like Van Persie, Varane and Henrik Larrson.

 

[DanielofLeyland]

I think United have dug themselves a hole they've not been able to get out of. The mismanagement at the top has seen too many players being given salaries that are too big and have been signed for above market value.

I feel this is due to the failures of the Moyes era and the absolute panic that has ensued since. We have thrown money at players to entice them to United. Why would those players be bothered? And the club have to accept that if you do deals with players based on silly money and they accept then they can't turn around and ask for them to 'want' to play for anything more than the cash. A case in point being Sanchez whom we only signed to avoid him going to a rival.

We need a top down approach where we limit the amount we spend on players and have a wage structure to match. If player won't sign for us unless they get a fortune then we say thanks but no thanks. There are many footballers who would love to play for United. I actually think a few barren seasons might help us sort out the mess we are in and develop a solid culture. We need to give the next manager time like Arsenal have with Arteta and not expect a title challenge/Champions league qualification instantly.

We might suffer in the short term but in the long term we will come out better off. This is why Liverpool can play hard ball with Salah. They have a proven winning strategy. We need that.

 

[Champ]

We haven’t won anything major in nine years. We have spend more then a billion, with one of the highest paybill in football. Managers have come and gone, players are the same. It’s time they take the blame.
Pogba will leave a second time for free and has done nothing for us. He can’t even make an effort on the pitch.

I support the club not players who should be gone long time ago.

The dressing room is fine…just look at the way we play and the results… everything is fine, we should stick with the players who don’t give a go on the pitch.

The dressing room is in turmoil because Pogba once danced!

We haven't won anything in 9 years because recruitment has been awful and we lacked anything resembling structure, not because Pogba and Lingard once had fun whilst getting changed.

Ridiculous.

 

[Raoul]

The facts do not lie. A little less than a quarter of the season still to go and United are sitting in 5th with 50 points. As a points tally, it is the 3rd lowest after 29 games since United's 2012/13 title winning season and a full 21 points behind the tally achieved at the same point, during that season. The fact is that investment, even vast investment has not brought progress that we had hoped. At best, it seems to have resulted in a slow slide into mediocrity.

I totally get that managers change things. However, my concern is that the culture at United, built on a diet of major trophy winning and fed by a hunger for more is slowly becoming a thing of the past. In the place of pride over the number of trophies won, seems to be contract size and social media following. I am not suggesting that United players, do not want to win trophies and be successful. Rather it seems that players want to be successful on their own terms. They want to be guaranteed first team football, whether or not they deserve it. Their fragile egos dictate that they do not want to be criticised publicly, even when they might deserve to be. When you have Ralf Rangnick suggesting that our players should look to Anthony Elanga (an academy graduate) as their role model, then you get a sense of the scale of the problem at United.

Over the past four years, the bar has well and truly been raised by City and Liverpool. Success and trophy-winning now requires more in terms of fitness, commitment, application and attitude.

Given the massive wages that our players are on, how do we extract Ferguson-era levels of passion for winning trophies and achieving success from our players?

Why do you think the likes of City and Pool are successfully doing it but we're not ?

 

[Oldtraffordboy]

I think the reasons for our failure are more technical and strategic. Address the root causes first.

We can't keep blaming individual players for "not caring" forever. Just like you can't blame a dog for being a dog.

Past a basic level of financial comfort, motivation comes when people believe in their leaders, their team, the plan and themselves.

 

[fastwalker]

Why do you think the likes of City and Pool are successfully doing it but we're not ?

because they are winning trophies and we are not.....

 

[Raoul]

because they are winning trophies and we are not.....

Yeah but in Pool's case, they weren't just a few years ago. Why do you think they changed ?

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah but in Pool's case, they weren't just a few years ago. Why do you think they changed ?

It's the manager. Whether people like it or not, that's why sport teams and even individual athletes generally have and need coaches. There isn't a lot of self taught, self coached top athletes they generally need someone that can guide them, motivate them, push them in the right direction. Beyond his tactical acumen that's what someone like Klopp brings, he managed to make his player believe that they were good enough to win and they rightfully believe.

 

[Raoul]

It's the manager. Whether people like it or not, that's why sport teams and even individual athletes generally have and need coaches. There isn't a lot of self taught, self coached top athletes they generally need someone that can guide them, motivate them, push them in the right direction. Beyond his tactical acumen that's what someone like Klopp brings, he managed to make his player believe that they were good enough to win and they rightfully believe.

Agreed. Quality managers generally always get their players to punch above their collective weight. Having a supportive board and executive management helps as well.

 

[fastwalker]

Yeah but in Pool's case, they weren't just a few years ago. Why do you think they changed ?

Yes, I get what you are implying regarding recency bias. However, using a statistical trend as a basis (ie: the last three seasons including this one) United have won nothing whilst Liverpool and City have won about a dozen trophies between them. Using a trend as a measure of comparison is useful because it would suggest that rather than being an anomaly, this barren period for United is symptomatic of a pattern. That is not to say that this pattern will continue indefinitely, because as with City and Liverpool, the appointment of the right manager, good player recruitment and good results on the pitch are more likely than not to produce trophies. However, Unlike City and Liverpool, United's key trend data in terms of wins, losses, points won etc does currently not indicate progress. All this despite more than £1bn in player investment over the past decade. In other words, we are investing but do not seem to be improving.