Donkey with carrot on the stick trick. We paid our players too much too early when they have achieved nothing. Rashford is paid more than Salah Firmino and Mane for example. Give them too much too early and they will feel they have already make it and become billy big bollox
How do you convince players who are enjoying a very comfortable living, to care about winning trophies again?
- Thread starter fastwalker
- Start date
Performance related contracts.
You shouldn't need to convince an ambitious professional athlete to want to win. Whomever that is the case for, in a club of United's status - KICK THEM OUT. And be ruthless about it. No "buts" or "ifs".
Say all you want about Artetea but he has absolutely changed the culture at Arsenal. Auba shows a lack of discipline - stripped of captaincy and sold. Xhaka disrespects the fans - stripped of captaincy and dropped. Guendouzi - shows disrespect to the manager - shipped out and likely sold. Not afraid to pick youngsters even if it means taking a few losses. Result - more established players know they have to perform on all levels or they will be dropped, sold. Team spirit improves and then so do performances and results.
They are just squirrels looking for nuts.
Arteta could do it because the club stood strong behind the manager. If our manager (that too an interim) says let's freeze out Rashford, all hell will break loose. The PR team will want Ralf's head for it.
Variable pay, based on performance in league and cups.
they just need to be managed well
it's not like this is a new problem in professional football is it? top players have been set for life from a young age for a while now
still being able to motivate them is what distinguishes good managers from great ones
it's not like this is a new problem in professional football is it? top players have been set for life from a young age for a while now
still being able to motivate them is what distinguishes good managers from great ones
I agree, this is a very good point, definitely, but.... let's be careful not to suggest that managing Manchester United FC is some sort of role that requires much sympathy and sadness. A top manager would sort that place out. An energised Klopp, Pep, Conte, Enrique, Simeone, Tuchel.. and I even, even think a Moyes (not suggesting we should go back there...) would get a grip of things in a couple of seasons and get us v competitive again.
Think they have too many outside distractions both for their own gain and promotion work for the club. Just don't think the focus is there at vital time, also some just aren't good enough.
Definitely agree with this. Far too much money, far too young. There should be lots of incentives in their contracts, team incentives not personal ones. It should all be around what they win.
This.
Get people in who burn with desire to be the best every time they step on to the pitch. Please stop giving everybody a million bucks before they play a game for the club and get footballing people in to make footballing decisions.
You buy new, hungry players to either motivate said players, or sell players who are unmotivated
Also agree with the sentiment that we overpay our stars too much, too early. Every bumper contract should be earned.
Also agree with the sentiment that we overpay our stars too much, too early. Every bumper contract should be earned.
V1: You don't, you just replace them with hungry ones.
V2: Pay is always performance oriented.
V3: You let them rot on the bench.
V2: Pay is always performance oriented.
V3: You let them rot on the bench.
Its not very hard, these threads make me laugh as if we are trying to discover the secret of the universe. How do Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Madrid etc do it? They hire the best players they can get, ahve strong youth sysems, get rid of underperformers, dont sign players who only want the cash, have generally clear recruitment structures. You then hire top managers with a clear football structure. Not rocket science.
Club culture has created a monster. Every single player purchased in the last 10 years has been bought at an inflated price, added with a player contract that is probably double the market value.
You offer that sort of money to any player under 25 and they think they have made it as a player. Look at the situation with Liverpool and Salah. He is quite righty asking to be the best paid player in the league, because he is right now. Liverpool are not bowing down to that because of the impact it could have to other players contracts in the squad.
We have a squad of players who hold all the cards. At the prices we buy players we have to give them 2/3 years to see if the investment pays off. We can’t do a Man City and write off a £50m player after one season. The size of player contracts means when we want to get rid, players want their salaries matched by other club, and simply won’t leave unless United take a massive loss again. This creates an incredibly slow player turnover, which hinders squad building for success.
This whole situation has been created at board level. You only have to look at the 5 years contract extension given to Phil Jones. An injury prone player, who was a 5th choice CB at the time of his contract extension. A perfect time to let him go on a free transfer. 5 years later this player has played, at best, 40 games and refused to move on. That shows the board don’t have a clue what they’re doing. My only hope is Rangnick gets the power to change things when he’s at that level because otherwise this club will further regress.
You offer that sort of money to any player under 25 and they think they have made it as a player. Look at the situation with Liverpool and Salah. He is quite righty asking to be the best paid player in the league, because he is right now. Liverpool are not bowing down to that because of the impact it could have to other players contracts in the squad.
We have a squad of players who hold all the cards. At the prices we buy players we have to give them 2/3 years to see if the investment pays off. We can’t do a Man City and write off a £50m player after one season. The size of player contracts means when we want to get rid, players want their salaries matched by other club, and simply won’t leave unless United take a massive loss again. This creates an incredibly slow player turnover, which hinders squad building for success.
This whole situation has been created at board level. You only have to look at the 5 years contract extension given to Phil Jones. An injury prone player, who was a 5th choice CB at the time of his contract extension. A perfect time to let him go on a free transfer. 5 years later this player has played, at best, 40 games and refused to move on. That shows the board don’t have a clue what they’re doing. My only hope is Rangnick gets the power to change things when he’s at that level because otherwise this club will further regress.
I'd ask them to think about how many followers they'd get on da gram if they won the league
Good post. I agree entirely. This social media has boomed at Utd, with we go again, thumbs up pictures, etc. This is driven by the owners otherwise they can stamp it quite easily. The club have hired people to push this agenda, so the players are equivalent to movie or pop stars. When it was stated that they had 2 million likes on a training pic after drawing to Watford, this is exactly what they were after. Hopefully and it really is in hope this will slowly change with this change of priority of having a ceo to leave football decisions to the dof and a new manager coming in.
It can be done, but you need the right guy leading the charge. We famously didn’t pay top dollar in the 80’s and 90’s but Fergie managed to build a squad capable of winning the league, and was strong enough to manage upwards too. Our owners at the time certainly weren’t the Glazers, but they’re weren’t perfect either. Supplement experienced Players ie Varane with hungry talented youngsters who are desperate to play for United, no matter the salary. They do exist you know, we just need to support them. Drop those who are clearly not good enough, no matter what their contract looks like, they’ll soon move on. The time is now.
You don't convince them to care, you replace them with players who do care. The players at City and Liverpool are millionaires but they still give 100% effort.
Please please stop harking back to the past. The 'right guy' is not the answer, there is no easy solution. The top clubs have clear football structures managers fit into these or dont get hired. You put all your eggs in the manager basket and give them free reign, you end up with the cluster f*ck we have now. A manager alone does not turn this around.
As I have mentioned before you wonder how the City/Liverpool contracts are structured. Are they laden with bonuses for actually winning something, rather than loaded with appearance bonuses, international cap bonuses etc. Think the former builds a team culture rather than an everyman for himself culture.
Not trying to minimize the problem, but we're not the only club with this issue. When you are as big and pay as handsomely as we do, there will always be those
Personally I agree, but then you'll start seeing a lot of players choosing other teams for the guaranteed money. The risk of serious injury always weighs heavy on players minds.
Then they aren't the players for us because it isn't football and winning that is motivating them.
I wish that we are Man Utd marketing agency. Then we would not;
Hire manager based on emotions
Give huge contracts to average academy players.
Give new contracts players to long serving players (Jones, Mata, Matic).
Hesitate to sell any player despite who he is.
We must become ruthless and stop trying to be friendly local club.
Yes completely agree with that, but when our new permanent manager comes in whoever he is, he needs to stamp his authority on this team & the club will back him. Players PR teams can swivel.
The club stands behind the manager which is also important. I can't see our board back our manager instead of our players.
You conveniently chose not to highlight the sentence in front of that. The risk of injury would make even dedicated, football loving players pause when choosing a new contract. We can by all means tie more money to performance, but there has to be a balance to it. The oil clubs will not pay less just because we are.
Its simple enough in concept. Don’t hand out extensions to underperforming players, hoping that would increase transfer values. Don‘t reward mediocrity in any way. This includes being ruthless and selling players who are not doing well, and also accepting that they might not fetch ridiculous values.
Buying superstars on obscene wages would also be detimental, since that would be the new benchmark for wages and other players might start to demand the same. It’s very clear that this is a big problem with us, since no other club except PSG, would be handing out 200K+ contracts to Martial and Rashford, Pogba etc. We need to put a structure in place for this.
Looking at the history of the player and their agent, and having some sort of mental check in place would also be good. I don’t know how football transfers work, but something similar to an interview, where the manager and an appointed team interviews the player once the initial deal is done, to see if they are the right fit would be a good idea. Not sure about it’s feasibility tbh.
Buying superstars on obscene wages would also be detimental, since that would be the new benchmark for wages and other players might start to demand the same. It’s very clear that this is a big problem with us, since no other club except PSG, would be handing out 200K+ contracts to Martial and Rashford, Pogba etc. We need to put a structure in place for this.
Looking at the history of the player and their agent, and having some sort of mental check in place would also be good. I don’t know how football transfers work, but something similar to an interview, where the manager and an appointed team interviews the player once the initial deal is done, to see if they are the right fit would be a good idea. Not sure about it’s feasibility tbh.
You don't pander to players; you gut what doesn't get on board and incorporate those that are willing to get with the plan, even moreso when dealing with those who have no credit in the bank to barter with. With those, you humour a bit and phase them out ruthlessly as and when the opportunity to do so arises.
What this means for us is the new manager needs total backing from the higher ups and a solid budget to play with to facilitate change.
What needs to be done with us is epic and unprecedented for a real club, certainly in the PL era.
What this means for us is the new manager needs total backing from the higher ups and a solid budget to play with to facilitate change.
What needs to be done with us is epic and unprecedented for a real club, certainly in the PL era.
Injury is always a risk though. You cannot go into games worrying that you might get injured. If you are you will not go into challenges to help your team.
Take them all to the border of Poland/ukraine and get them doing humanitarian work on their break. Make them realise how privileged they are. Sell/release any continued moaners
This is difficult at United, mainly for the reason that has been mentioned in the thread - lack of support from the top.
But another more subtle reason is the perception of Manchester United. I think Manchester United being "the biggest club in the world" has many advantages, but one disadvantage is that it makes it difficult to have a true rebuild. In Arteta's 'Lego Pep' thread, the consensus seems to be that Arsenal can afford to go through transition, whereas United cannot. In the last decade the United have won three major trophies (FA Cup, League Cup, Europa League) and Arsenal four major trophies (4 x FA Cup). Only Arsenal have actually challenged for a title (I define that as still being in contention in May). United have qualified for the Champions League many more times than Arsenal, but unless you're winning it or going close, that only really affects a clubs bank balance and pull with certain players in the transfer market - which is something United have no real problems with anyway.
The expectations surrounding United are now completely disconnected with reality. On the one hand you have Neville dismissing Conte for not being "a Manchester United Manager". Then you have the consensus opinion that the time, money and support that Arteta has been given at Arsenal is impossible at a club the size of United. And the Klopps of this world don't want to work at the Disneyland of Football.
You don't a want short-term serial winner as Manager. You don't want a long-term rookie as a Manager. And world class coaches don't want to work for a marketing department that happens to have football team attached to it. That doesn't leave many good options.
Let’s be honest here: it’s a lot harder to for this footballing generation where player power reigns supreme. Obscene contracts, slimy agents, power of social media, image rights, other side projects/ player brand all are huge factors in why these players cannot be arsed any more. They are surrounded by yes men and people who will keep telling them that they’re great. Any criticism means the player lashes out either verbally or online.
They have become so detached from reality that they have no idea what it’s like to work 40 hours a week and even then struggle to make ends meet.
It’s impossible to motivate players these days, you simply have to recruit the right players who come naturally with that inner fire in their bellies and determination to leave everything on the pitch. More than scouting how athletic or talented a player is, scouting teams should also look at the player’s psychological profile, attitude and mentality.
They have become so detached from reality that they have no idea what it’s like to work 40 hours a week and even then struggle to make ends meet.
It’s impossible to motivate players these days, you simply have to recruit the right players who come naturally with that inner fire in their bellies and determination to leave everything on the pitch. More than scouting how athletic or talented a player is, scouting teams should also look at the player’s psychological profile, attitude and mentality.
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If a player needs motivation to win trophies he has no right to be a professional footballer employed by MUFC - that is a bare minimum requisite!!! 
the last few years in a nutshell.you need both, a strong infrastructure and the right manager. But you get the wrong manager in, you’re going nowhere, no matter how the club is setup.
I think we need to go back to when we were last competitive and that's under Jose in the summer of 2018. Jose wanted Martial, Shaw and Pogba out, wanted to keep Rashford's ego in check and wanted to bring in players with stamina and work rate like Perisic.
As a club we didn't back him in those decisions so is it any wonder we have the same players as bad apples and the few who joined since aren't as serious? I was one at the forefront of calling Jose toxic, I don't wish him back but we should admit that he was right. The players we backed over him have only flattered to deceive and with each one a football case can be made for upgrading on them.
We have kicked the bucket down the line for far too long and it's now time to bite the bullet. Already we know that the likes of Mata, maybe Jones amongst others are on their way out but I'd argue that these fringe players are the least of our problems. It's the supposed key players, the ones who are in leadership and to this core ruthlessness is needed, I am talking of Mourinho on Schweinsteiger levels of brutality.
When the rest see club golden boys like Rashford thrown out of the squad and demoted to the reserves they will fall in line. Forget about narratives just back the manager even if he tells you to write off a £100m asset.
As a club we didn't back him in those decisions so is it any wonder we have the same players as bad apples and the few who joined since aren't as serious? I was one at the forefront of calling Jose toxic, I don't wish him back but we should admit that he was right. The players we backed over him have only flattered to deceive and with each one a football case can be made for upgrading on them.
We have kicked the bucket down the line for far too long and it's now time to bite the bullet. Already we know that the likes of Mata, maybe Jones amongst others are on their way out but I'd argue that these fringe players are the least of our problems. It's the supposed key players, the ones who are in leadership and to this core ruthlessness is needed, I am talking of Mourinho on Schweinsteiger levels of brutality.
When the rest see club golden boys like Rashford thrown out of the squad and demoted to the reserves they will fall in line. Forget about narratives just back the manager even if he tells you to write off a £100m asset.
The notion that fear and ruling with an iron fist is both ridiculous and antiquated. Sending in a Roy Keane or a similar figure would add next to nothing and would soon see them ignored and ushered out of the club. A stick up the arse and shouting at people is incredibly short sighted and is the equivalent of taking a baseball bat to a TV that's on the blinker.
Similarly monetary compensation only goes so far and in the world of advertisement and links to brands hitting them with fines and stripped back pay is also incredibly antiquated and an ideal borrowed from late 80s - early 2000s business which is by all accounts 20 years out of date.
The way forward is to tap into the intrinsic knowledge holders in the club and hand ownership of the goals of the club and team...to the team. You can not force people to believe in something they don't or don't care about. You need to educate the players and people coaching the players to transfer the ownership of their success to themselves which is not linked to cash incentive.
Without speaking to the players themselves you can not assume on their goals, one may be focused on social media following, one may be focused on winning trophies, one may be focused on winning the Ballon D'or. The team, as a team needs to identify what the focus on, what is their involvement and how will they hold each other accountable for the actions to lead them to the achievement of their objectives.
If it is to win trophies and that is the priority, the entire team from the superstars to the U23s need to be aligned on that mission, if you have a player that is focused on something else you need to get them on board whether its through knowledge and education via a valid, modern coaching set up or one on one personal coaching. The players that do not share this goal may not understand the value of the team and therefore will need to be replaced.
The manager is intrinsic in implementing the coaching and knowledge that the team can invest in and believe in, to the point that their own personal objectives match that of the coach and guiding philosophy of the club.
First step. The coach with a guiding strategy from the club.
Second step. Coaching the players and understanding their personal goals and ambitions.
Third step. Either foster an atmosphere of learning and ownership within the team or look to replace players who's ambitions do not match the clubs strategy.
There will be mistakes and the approach should be step by step, the ambition is to win trophies? great, but first you must learn from your rivals and adapt and evolve your strategy removing bottlenecks as you go.
The first objective for the club should be improving upon the previous seasons outcomes. In this instance we should aim for top 4 by a clear margin for next season.
Similarly monetary compensation only goes so far and in the world of advertisement and links to brands hitting them with fines and stripped back pay is also incredibly antiquated and an ideal borrowed from late 80s - early 2000s business which is by all accounts 20 years out of date.
The way forward is to tap into the intrinsic knowledge holders in the club and hand ownership of the goals of the club and team...to the team. You can not force people to believe in something they don't or don't care about. You need to educate the players and people coaching the players to transfer the ownership of their success to themselves which is not linked to cash incentive.
Without speaking to the players themselves you can not assume on their goals, one may be focused on social media following, one may be focused on winning trophies, one may be focused on winning the Ballon D'or. The team, as a team needs to identify what the focus on, what is their involvement and how will they hold each other accountable for the actions to lead them to the achievement of their objectives.
If it is to win trophies and that is the priority, the entire team from the superstars to the U23s need to be aligned on that mission, if you have a player that is focused on something else you need to get them on board whether its through knowledge and education via a valid, modern coaching set up or one on one personal coaching. The players that do not share this goal may not understand the value of the team and therefore will need to be replaced.
The manager is intrinsic in implementing the coaching and knowledge that the team can invest in and believe in, to the point that their own personal objectives match that of the coach and guiding philosophy of the club.
First step. The coach with a guiding strategy from the club.
Second step. Coaching the players and understanding their personal goals and ambitions.
Third step. Either foster an atmosphere of learning and ownership within the team or look to replace players who's ambitions do not match the clubs strategy.
There will be mistakes and the approach should be step by step, the ambition is to win trophies? great, but first you must learn from your rivals and adapt and evolve your strategy removing bottlenecks as you go.
The first objective for the club should be improving upon the previous seasons outcomes. In this instance we should aim for top 4 by a clear margin for next season.