How do we solve our midfield problem?

choccy77 said:
How do we solve our midfield problems?

Buy better talent.
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We bought Pogba who was rated as one of the most in demand talented young midfielders.
It hasn't worked.
We have a knack of turning great (expensive) players, into crap. And when we play against a team of much less talented (cheaper) players, those less talented players play better than our players.
Even Luke Shaw, after today's game against Wolves has stated this - we have super talented players, yet are losing to lesser teams.
 
We have zero composure in midfield.

Arthur is 99% leaving Juventus for the PL. Despite his problems, we should be all over him. He's probably the most press resistant midfielder in the world with Verratti, and we desperately need someone with that attribute. Even if it's just a loan.
 
sunama said:
Could it be that in training he is dire? I do find it strange that none of Ralf, Ole, McKenna, Carrick, Fletcher, etc rate VDB.
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Maybe. Got to be something like that.

personally I think our midfield is crying out for lingard. Someone to carry the ball forward
 
We did solve our Midfield problem for a bit when Ole arrived. A 4-3-3 with Matic Herrera and Pogba worked well because it had everything you need in a midfield. A good DM who shields the back 4 and can pick a pass. A box to box harasser in Herrera who can win the ball back and Pogba who could dribble, pass and score. Sadly it all went to shit pretty soon with injuries and Ole switching to a 4231.

We compounded our issues with buying Bruno. While his impact was immense, it kinda led to a bigger paul pogba problem. Pogba as a DM never worked for us. He made more defensive errors and his partner in Fred or McT were poor passers or out of position in most games.

Now we are in a real pickle. Matic legs are gone, Fred and McT are not good enough, Pogba is leaving, VDB never plays and no idea why we have Mata. Not only do we need 2-3 GOOD midfielders who can create and break we also need to hope to god that a new manager plays a formation which allows Bruno to occupy the CAM position because anywhere else he is pretty crap and gives the ball away far too much.
 
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sunama said:
We bought Pogba who was rated as one of the most in demand talented young midfielders.
It hasn't worked.
We have a knack of turning great (expensive) players, into crap. And when we play against a team of much less talented (cheaper) players, those less talented players play better than our players.
Even Luke Shaw, after today's game against Wolves has stated this - we have super talented players, yet are losing to lesser teams.
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As I said, we need to buy better talent.

Pogba aside from one season at Juventus and a handful of games for France, always been poor and overhyped.

United signed him out of desperation and again thinking buying ex United players would please the fans.

Basically Ed just got it wrong for 9 years.
 
We all keep going on about our midfield does anyone know why VDB not getting any game time is beyond me
give a donny a run see how he goes it baffles me that an ageing matic gets a start before VDB
 
Put an extra body in there instead of playing with 4 forwards. What a fecking joke!

It's so obvious. Burnley and Newcastle and Wolves have midfield control over us or just slightly under.

What's wrong with possession football?
 
My biggest question is... where are all the youth team central midfielders?

Surely Scotty McT can't be the only CM we've developed in 9 or so years? WTF happened to everyone else?
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
I think Declan Rice would help a lot. He possesses everything we don’t have right now.

Pogba, VDB & Matic will/should leave so we need Rice plus one more to compliment Rice, Fred & McTominay.
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Very true but why would he choose us over City or Chelsea if leaving West Ham, yes I know that sounds brutal but hard to argue right now surely
 
Our midfielders are limited.

Solution, pack the midfield with 3 in there so they have options to pass to. 2 wide wingers and a lone Ronaldo/Cavani.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
muddle through to the end of the season. Try and sell some attackers and buy some midfielders
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Why not take a calculated risk and play DVB and Bruno with two DMs behind them. DVB is a player who can play in the middle of the park and would not vacate the areas that Sancho and Greenwood does. To be honest they are not midfield players.
 
Get a consistent CM pairing that can get at least on a bad day 7 out of 10. We got Fred on a good day is 9 or 10, then we get 3 or 4 for games on end. Mctom the same you get looks good in 1 or 2 games like a world beater then you get what you had against Wolves.
 
We haven’t built any balance in midfield, I’ve been banging on about it for years and gets pelted for it, it’s why we don’t get the best from players like Pogba who lets face it is the only talented midfielder we have in our entire squad.

We needed to buy a version of Matic that was five years younger, if we had we would have had so much more balance over these last couple of seasons.
 
sillwuka said:
Our midfielders are limited.

Solution, pack the midfield with 3 in there so they have options to pass to. 2 wide wingers and a lone Ronaldo/Cavani.
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Ronaldo doesn’t really work as a lone striker. 3 at the back with wingbacks could work best with our current squad. Then we can play 2 up top. The boss is really struggling with how to make a team for his tactics with players who generally aren’t suited to it in key areas.
 
Red_toad said:
Ronaldo doesn’t really work as a lone striker. 3 at the back with wingbacks could work best with our current squad. Then we can play 2 up top. The boss is really struggling with how to make a team for his tactics with players who generally aren’t suited to it in key areas.
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We hardly have the squad for that. To play that formation effectively, the key requirement is top class in central midfield and at the wing backs, and those are arguably our weakest positions.
 
Whilst he is fit I think jones would be vital to use as a defensive midfielder, he did it in the past quite well and has the defensive discipline, mobility and aggressiveness to allow us to play a more attacking/adventurous midfielder next to him if ragnick insists on his terrible 4222 formation but I would like to see us really focus on doing something we haven't done since van gaal was here and that is at least control matches and boss the middle of the park and go 3511 and do a city and play no natural striker.
 
2 of: Bruno / VdB / McT
1 of: — Jones / Matic

Bring in Rice in the summer
 
The obvious answer would be to buy better midfielders.
However, for now, changing tactics or formation is the only solution.

Perhaps play a diamond formation, creating more 'triangles' in midfield which makes passing forward easier. I think we finally have the right fullbacks in Dalot/Telles/Shaw to cover the wings in this formation.

------- Matic ----
Mctom - Fred/vdb
-------Bruno -------

Or maybe we train Bruno to play the #8 role.

------ Bruno ----- Mctom -----
-------------- Vdb--------------

I wouldn't be against playing DvB as a false 9 either. Cavani barely got any chances in the last 2 matches but he works his ass off. Replace him with DvB and make him drop a little bit in midfield and we'd create many more chances.

------ Mctom -- Matic ----
Bruno --------------------Sancho
-----------VdB --- Ronaldo -------


The problem right now is that we rely on Sancho and Greenwood to create chances. Greenwood isn't creative enough for this so we basically only have Sancho to create chances. We need Bruno and VdB to create, but at the same need players like Matic, Mctominay and Fred to control the midfield.
 
Matic should go in the summer. Pogba is leaving on a free. The only solution is to buy in 3 CMs.
 
We probably need half a teams worth of new signings, including a new midfield
 
thebelfastboy said:
I think the only way we solve our midfield problem is with an overall formation change to a 352 or a 532 but I don't think ole has the balls to switch it up at this stage, it looks like he will persist with what we are seeing.

Having mcfred as a 2 is so limiting in our buildup. Our midfield needs to move the ball forward and build attacks as a unit by controlling the game. Currently they have no creativity and are releasing the ball forward too quickly leaving forwards totally isolated.
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Are you really suggesting that a change of formation will miraculously leave our players with the ability to successfully complete a five metre pass?
 
With a number 6 who fits RR's philosophy, wants the ball on the turn and progresses it to our forwards. I'd be astounded if he can't identify one that can improve us for £30m or less in this transfer window.
 
just like ole, ralf needs to coach the team to be better, and the midfield will look like less of an issue. like all our previous managers found out, opposition team at the base of the table will get compact and let us have the ball for the whole game, and force us to try to put ball players in the CM, like pogba and matic at different times, making us very easy to break on. ralf needs to find a tactical way to get around this, something lvg, jose, and ole couldn't do that ultimately cost them all their jobs
 
I personally want to see us play a 4-3-3 with Bruno on the left wing. If the team is to include Pogba then it would look like this:

------------------------------De Gea--------------------------------
Dalot------------Verane-----------Maguire--------Shaw
------------------------------Matic------------------------------
-------------VdB----------------------Pogba------------------
Sancho-----------------Ronaldo-----------------Bruno

Forget the #10 and playing a 4-2-3-1. For me, Bruno isn't a midfielder. He gives the ball away too easily in dangerous areas. But put him in the attack and he could prove to be deadly. I can see him scoring and assisting more from the left wing than he ever did as a #10...
 
We cannot play 2 in central midfield, that much is clear.
There is often a 25 metre diameter CMless hole in the middle of the pitch where 2 midfielders should be. We get overrun way too easily.
Regardless of personnel (and I agree there are severe issues with this for us) in order to control a game you need to control the middle of the pitch and we never do.
 
Realistically, we’re surely not going to replace all of Fred, McTominay, Pogba, Matic and VDB by next season, so which ones would we rather keep?
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Realistically, we’re surely not going to replace all of Fred, McTominay, Pogba, Matic and VDB by next season, so which ones would we rather keep?
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Pogba is likely out, Van de Beek staying even beyond January makes little sense and Matic is likely to go on pension as well. It might happen organically.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Pogba is likely out, Van de Beek staying even beyond January makes little sense and Matic is likely to go on pension as well. It might happen organically.
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Yeah it's very easy to see this happening. Leaves us with McFred and no cover. We have to be looking for at least two new starting midfield players
 
Daengophile said:
Are you really suggesting that a change of formation will miraculously leave our players with the ability to successfully complete a five metre pass?
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(I think you should read my post again in the context of being played off the park by Villarreal in September).

But here's a quick football lesson for you - one of the most fundamental coaching/passing drills in football is triangulation. You'll be taught it from about 9yrs old.

Pep is the master at teaching it and at a basic level it's why city are so good with the ball and always seem to have a pass or player available and totally control every game.

It doesn't work without a proper formation which in the modern game needs to be a 3 of some kind in the middle. Call it 532, 352, 433 etc whatever it doesn't really matter, it will always give you better triangle passing options than a 2 all over the pitch when you move the ball as a team/unit.
 
Foxbatt said:
Why not take a calculated risk and play DVB and Bruno with two DMs behind them. DVB is a player who can play in the middle of the park and would not vacate the areas that Sancho and Greenwood does. To be honest they are not midfield players.
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Well that would lead us with no width and two slots for the 800 attackers we have.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Realistically, we’re surely not going to replace all of Fred, McTominay, Pogba, Matic and VDB by next season, so which ones would we rather keep?
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I think obviously Matic needs to be moved on for age and Pogba is as good as gone. So that’s likely the answer.
 
sillwuka said:
Our midfielders are limited.

Solution, pack the midfield with 3 in there so they have options to pass to. 2 wide wingers and a lone Ronaldo/Cavani.
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Sounds like you’re wanting us to play 433 which is mind blowing! Who’d have thought?
 
I thought the shape worked better in the 2nd half last night with a back 3, wing-backs and 2 in the middle. We just need a better 2. Fred and Pogba/Bruno/Donny would work surely.

De Gea
Lindelof Varane Maguire
Dalot Pogba Fred Telles
Bruno
Greenwood Ronaldo
​
Swap players for whoever has some form but shape has to give us some control or at least more than 0 currently.
 
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