3 years time if we havent won anything we will have a different manager. We need to buy for the now and also develop for the near future.
How do we solve our midfield problem?
- Thread starter HailtotheKing
- Start date
Of course it wasn't an XI full of kids, but I'm just worried about blocking progression for the likes of Zidane, Hannibal, Garner.
How did you work that one out?
Donny and McT should be shipped and Eriksen has no history playing in a CM two. It’s FDJ plus a partner needed.
That's a matter of opinion, and may eventually happen, but the two will be here this season. When I look at Liverpool and City's midfield, I personally don't think we're far off.
As for Eriksen playing in a midfield two, just as well ten Hag is not playing a midfield two then.
Please expand on this because that's a wild take for me. More fool us if we still don't rate some of their midfielders. Henderson, who is ridiculed on here, is one of the best in the league.
Yeah and I understand that. But we should face reality, we can't go for glory (or some sort of pre-step of it from where we are) plus be shrewed in the transfermarket plus be the best team for youth development. We will have to put priorities and if we don't want to become a Dortmund or Ajax, youth development has to step back. On top of it: at a Club like United, you should have to be one of the best youth talents to make it. None of the players you mention seem to have that kind of talent from my point of view (which is basically based on feelings and a few minutes of watch time
) so we shouldn't risk the clubs progress for individuals. And the club will progress with success and good football. If we lack the players for that, we have to bring them in. At least for now. Plus we certainly can be smart about the contracts we give out, not every contract has to be for 5 years, it could only be three with a slightly bigger wage if we have such confidence in the youth players.Really? Thats mentionworthy... think, you will have that standpoint exclusively for you.
That's my initial post. I've tried to match them up in quality and play style.
I'd love to know which one is a 'wild' take.
You also must have missed Foden in your comparison ^^
So basically, just the McTominay the outlandish one?
Foden hardly plays in centre midfield for City. He's a winger and will no doubt play there again next season, especially having got rid of Jesus and Sterling.
A world class player to me is someone whho is a top 5 in their position. The players do not match up. KDB is far ahead of bruno or keita, world class period. Thiago is world class. Fabinho is world class. Silva and Henderson are better than anyone else in current midfield for united. Erikson and de jong would not get into either teams midfield except as 5th or 6th choice. Look at likes of Foden, Elliott, Carvalho — almost guaranteed to be future players in both teams. If it was really that competitive a match up the results would have reflected that over the years. Also, your midfield is a mish mash of individual players not a coherent unit. It’s definitely competitive for the PL but you cannot compare the players with either City or Liverpool. They are currently far ahead. Let’s judge once you have Erikson, FDJ and Bruno or Fred play together as a unit for a season. None are proven track records at the very top level. It maybe they will be good, really good but at this point it’s all speculation. Bruno struggled last year and he is probably the closest to a proven player at top level.
Ok, you are right about Foden. And add Eriksen to the outlandish-list as well. And come on, we all know, that a team (even a sub-set of a team like a defense unit or in this case a midfield unit) are more than just the names it consists of.
De Bruyne, Silva, Gundogan, Rodri, Philipps - you have guile, intensity, chance creation, workrate, goals and assists, technical excellence, comfort on the ball, ability to break the play under one roof. Gundogan and Silva can take over for De Bruyne, De Bruyne can take over the other two and Philipps can come in for Rodri.
Henderson, Milner, Keita, Thiago, Fabinho, Jones - workrate, ability on the ball, not so much chance creation probably. 6 players for three positions, not as strong as Citys set but two good units. Knowing that their chance creation is more focussed on their Fullbacks, it isn't as much of an issue that their midfield is more functional.
All bedded in with great sets of fullbacks, hard working wingers and potent CBs and with a clear plan of play.
Now United
Bruno - offensive workrate, chance creation, a bit of guile, defensive workrate meh, defensive prowess lacking
Eriksen - supposedly good on the ball, good chance creation, workrate?, defensive capabilities probably lacking
McTom - good physics, decent in many things, good on a few days in spots, issues in defense, technique wise an issue with fast-flowing football
Fred - great workrate, often erratic, good first-touch passing, easy to dribble past, one of the best pressers in the game, defensively decent
FDJ - great progression, very good on the ball, defensively alright but more of a roamer, physically not the strongest, intensity unknown, couldn't get past Busquets
VDB - supposedly good on the ball, decent at many things, no intensity
Fullbacks are decent at best, CB the same, wingers not known to have strong workrate. Your 6 consists of two players who never even played a match for United. One is supposedly not overly keen to join us. The other is a free agent with a serious health issue. Of the other ones, Bruno is the only one, who would be useful for other teams.
You are certainly entitled to your perspective, but let me put it this way - in a twisted alternative dimension where our club would be Liverpool and this here is RAWK, people at Redcafe would copy your post to say "typical RAWK"... At least I am pretty sure about it. At the very least it is excessively optimistic.
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If United had an iniesta level of talent in midfield they would have broke through already no different to how Greenwood / Rashford broke through into the first team.
That's like saying there's no good strikers in the market so lets sign a fast left winger and turn them into a striker because Wenger did the same thing with Henry.
I absolutely believe that some of the youth players should be developed but there's not one player in the midfield who is in the mould of being a world class player.
I think others have answered it by now. We're not even close. Comparing FDJ to City and Liverpool defensive mids is daft because they're streets ahead at that side of the game. We don't have a DM and the balance is all off in our midfield if we play our best 3 in FDJ, Bruno and Eriksen. Not a case of just trying to compare names.
We need to sign someone like kaka and makelele to solve our midfield.
By pretending it isn’t an issue, clearly.
If we sign de Jong then I think we have a really strong midfield that can control most games. I don’t think de Jong is enough though. I’d say de Jong and a specialist DM with either Bruno or eriksen in front of them.
By switching to 3-4-3.
1. Fred-Eriksen double pivot
2. In procession Martinez (LCB) moves into Fred place, Fred operates higher (great for him!). Eriksen and Lisandro control midfield.
3. Front 3 is not affected in T Hag system. My bet on Sancho, Rashford and Bruno trio.
Why Telles played CB and DM? Why was Tyrell Malacia signed?
Ps. We need to upgrade right back
1. Fred-Eriksen double pivot
2. In procession Martinez (LCB) moves into Fred place, Fred operates higher (great for him!). Eriksen and Lisandro control midfield.
3. Front 3 is not affected in T Hag system. My bet on Sancho, Rashford and Bruno trio.
Why Telles played CB and DM? Why was Tyrell Malacia signed?
Ps. We need to upgrade right back
Is Neves on there?
I thought this was interesting.
Pogba doesn't qualify because of a lack of playing time. But you can see exactly what EtH is going for with FdJ.
I think it'll more like be De Jong as the deepest mid, and then a high pressing, all action ball winner in front of him rather than a DM. Fred is pretty much ideal for the high pressing role, and can cover for De Jong if he makes a foray forward. With full backs tucking in during the build up phase so the number 6 isn't exposed, or to win the ball back if De Jong does get caught trying to dribble from deep.
McT and the peace-maker wearing version of Eriksen. And I'm feeling you missed some City players. Both Foden and Grealish are very capable of playing in midfield and Cancelo as well. We do not really have this kind of options among our other players.
Completely agree. SO many "player a" will do alongside FDJ, if he comes and that isnt enough for me.
We have just god rid of big players like Pogba who simply couldnt play in the pivot and Matic who actually could but was really ageing......why on earth do so many say Fred when he has generally been diabolical there for us in his whole time here or McTominay who has some good games but really doesnt have the intelligence or positioning to play there let alone technique when we have the ball.
If we are devveloping players then it can only be a youngster. Mainoo looks a huge talent but is certainly a year or two away at least. Savage and Iqbal at the moment shouldnt come into the equation after a preseason stint.
Only two really and thats Garner who I like, but I dont think he will prove himself to be at the level required. Only possibiility for me is Hannibal and thats as an alternative to FDJ rather than a partner.
We simply need to sign two cm midfielders this summer regardless of one is FDJ who I still dont think does anyway
The issue is FDJ doesn't want to come.
Any alternatives will probably be just as, or even more expensive but not as good, or won't have the qualities we need.
Anyone cheaper would hardly be an upgrade on Fred and Mctominay..
I certainly wouldn't want to spend 80 million on someone like Neves, I'd rather just Garner play there..
Any alternatives will probably be just as, or even more expensive but not as good, or won't have the qualities we need.
Anyone cheaper would hardly be an upgrade on Fred and Mctominay..
I certainly wouldn't want to spend 80 million on someone like Neves, I'd rather just Garner play there..
He surely is but probably without a caption...
Based on fbref, he had
75.59 touches per 90,
is disposessed 0.78 times per 90 and has 0.54 miscontrols per 90,
3.82 progressive carries per 90 and 4.94 progressives passes per 90.
So per 90
75.59 touches
1.33 times disposessed
8.76 progressive actions
so I guess
(1.33 / 75.59) * 50 = 0.88
(8.76 / 75.59) * 50 = 5.79
Would place him as an anchor man, in the region of Rodri, Brozovic and Busquets but I guess, there is another factor in the ball losses per 50 touches as it is way lower than the others there...
(please point out mistakes in my math, wasn't my strongest suit back then...)
Apparently we just ignore it.
Maybe it will magically disapear.
Maybe it will magically disapear.