Television House of the Dragon (GoT Prequel) - No book spoilers allowed

[George Owen]

What hole were they digging themselves into?

Sir Cole murdering some guy in front of everybody. I was looking forward to see how the different families would react and the consequences...

Nope. Just jump into the future and imagine that scene never happened.

Never mind the king dying and returning healthier than ever. How did they managed to keep him alive for so many years after being clearly ready to die?

 

[The Firestarter]

Sir Cole murdering some guy in front of everybody. I was looking forward to see how the different families would react and the consequences...

Nope. Just jump into the future and imagine that scene never happened.

Obviously it's not like it never happened since Cole is now personal guard to the queen- she used her power to get him out of trouble.

 

[George Owen]

Obviously it's not like it never happened since Cole is now personal guard to the queen- she used her power to get him out of trouble.

He could have become her personal guard without having to kill anyone (she already had his life in her hands). That murder happened just because the show runners needed someone to die in that wedding but it served no purpose at all story wise. No influence on anything. They just jumped to the future and replaced the dead guy with another random gay lover.

Them not going into details makes it way easier to get out of any tricky situation.

 

[dumbo]

Wow they did a fecking terrible job with the match-casting. It looks like some mangled, alternative universe has been projected onto the back of a spoon. Rhaenyra looks to have aged 40 years, undergone extensive facial reconstruction and had a voice and mannerisms transplant. The queens look nothing alike to anyone with the slightest skills of observation. I was getting this sense of uncanny anamorphosis in the profile shots. Her acting is weak too. Previously they were very obviously grown women. You could have kept the exact same cast and applied very minor make up (a laugh line or two) and it would have worked fine.

The skip doesn't really matter and the new rhaenyra seems a decent actor but the way they did it is so weird and unnecessary.

Jar Jar Criston has been constantly fecking terrible. The character, the nonsensical actions, the wank plotting, could all be removed entirely and it would only improve the show.

The dragon riding is so fecking lame, I wish it didn't exist, or at least they only ever showed it as a wide shot.

The young Targaryen brats seem quite fun though. I liked the pit scenes and that one runt looks convincingly feeble. I want more of them.

 

[The Firestarter]

Wow they did a fecking terrible job with the match-casting. It looks like some mangled, alternative universe has been projected onto the back of a spoon. Rhaenyra looks to have aged 40 years, undergone extensive facial reconstruction and had a voice and mannerisms transplant. The queens look nothing alike to anyone with the slightest skills of observation. .

"Nothing alike" - or is this some weird piss take of yours?

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Never mind the king dying and returning healthier than ever. How did they managed to keep him alive for so many years after being clearly ready to die?

His face and scalp look like they are ready to fall off his head and an arm actually has fallen off...

 

[Shane88]

I think they could've aged up Alicent's actress. Though I like Olivia Cooke, she was good in Bates Motel. They couldn't have done that for Rhaenyra's actress. She looks too young.

Criston went from noble knight to lovestruck **** to sad incel in 3 episodes. It's a bit ridiculous.

Vhagar is the coolest looking dragon so far.

 

[dumbo]

If you don't pay much attention in general you might be fooled by the superficial dressing of the two Queens. If you've actually properly looked at a face or understand the basics of head construction then there is little here to convince.

Face shape, hairline, brow arch and angle, shape of nose, nostrils, eye angle, lid size and socket depth, forehead and side planes, are all out of whack.

They are both slim, fair, brunettes in makeup. That's enough for some but not if you have any sense of how faces are constructed.

Not that it really matters in relation to the show but it's an odd inconsistency that requires some adjusting to given that it feels like unnecessary tinkering. You just need to forget the other actor existed because they won't blend in the mind.

 

[Stack]

Im wondering if those who have found the last episode to be good are those who have read the books and understand whats happening a bit more than someone like me who hasnt read the books and really struggled to be engaged with the last episode?

 

[Beachryan]

Really not a fan of that episode myself. Time jump is fine - tbh not really needed for me especially as some characters still look exactly the same (Ser Cristin).

What gets me is that unlike the first few episodes, this felt a lot like a GoT rehash.

Queen who blindly ignores her idiotic son's actions, but judges everyone else's kids? Check.
Small, spindly character willing to use guile and a strong lack of morals to achieve goals? Check.
Blonde Targaryen who does whatever she wants and is utterly shocked when there are consequences? Check.
Brooding Prince of few words whose main skill is to stare off camera? Bingo.
King who ignores the murmurs of the court because of loyalty to family? You got it.

I think part of the best bits of GoT were that despite it being very dark and all characters having flaws, many of them also had likeable traits that got the audience invested.

Certainly young Rhaenyra felt like that. But this one? We learn she not only didn't learn a thing from her disasterous mistake, but rather decided to make her folly a permanent fixture? Did the maesters forget how to make tea?

Allisont's gone from 'I believe in the right thing, and nobles should behave the right way' to 'I'll pardon this dude that just minced a nobles face, make him my confidant and forget he did that whole thing that disgusts me so much in the first place'. Oh and I'll tell this other guy that it'd be a real shame if anything happened to his brother and father.

Meanwhile we knew Daemon was a sarcastic hot head who acted except when it came to matters of conception...and now he's a f*cking moody mute who fathered 3 kids.

I'm kinda worried about the fact there's going to be another season of this. I mean, it's not a spoiler - things don't work out for the Targaryens, nor I assume the Valerians as there's a distinct lack of them 150 years later. So is it about 15 more episodes of these lovely folks backstabbing and hating each other?

There are no white walkers, no magical mysteries no puzzles to be poked at. Not sure how it'll keep the momentum going.

 

[Sky1981]

A 24 years old actress can play 15 years, 25 years, up to 35 years role just fine. There's no need for different actress.

But they'd have problem playing 50 years old or older. Herein lies the problem. If they dont swap now it'll gonna look more awkward later on swapping mid series.

Vice versa a 30 or 40 years old actresss can play 30-60 range quite fine but would look weird playing their younger self

While Olivia clark looks too mature to play 25 years Alicent the way things are going she'd be fine progressing further.

It's a very hard problem to solve continuity wise to be fair

 

[simonhch]

The new Rhaeynra sucks. That is all. The actress, and the character’s actions. Why she’d be so damned stupid is just beyond me. The young version was really impressive and driven. There had just been something so lost in translation, that it seems like a different person, not an older version.

Daemon got himself a smoking hot wife….sadly, quite literally by the end. I’m also annoyed by the suddenly Machiavellian gimp.

 

[edcunited1878]

The politics of it all is setting up nicely. This is after all the story of Targaryen civil war.

Daemon's family is down a mother and the oldest fiercest dragon has no rider and he's in Pentos. Rhaeynra is leading her own family, while having to deal with her king consort and his issues, while also raising 3 kids, trying to be "heir", moving to Dragonstone, and avoiding the inevitable of her father and the power struggle that will come...plus dealing with Alicent.

Visarys needs a new Hand, literally and figuratively, while his kids are growing up, but Alicent is pretty much running the family while trying to keep her husband the king "healthy and rested". And Larys just destroyed his family, putting himself in a perverse and influential position in Kings Landing, besides the Queen.

The time changed messed with people and that's fine, but it also distracted people from the changing dynamics of each family involved so far in the series.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Why would clubfoot dude betray his brother and father like that? Just so he could become lord of Harrenhal? Completely non-sensical. Same with several bandits being able to sneak into a foreign castle with non-existent security and kill a supposedly badass knight. If we’re supposed to suspend our disbelief that much, then literally everything is on the table including Rhaenyra growing a cock and becoming king.

Also, three childbirth scenes in one season seems lazy and excessive. Oh, and aren’t the Targs immune to fire? How’d the dragon burn Daemon’s wife to death?

Did enjoy the boys fighting scene though. But even then, there were inconsistencies. How’d the burly knight put his hands on the prince and escape any punishment? Same when he gave Criston a taste of his own wedding beatdown. Thought the Kingsguard were untouchables?

 

[lilcurt]

Why would clubfoot dude betray his brother and father like that? Just so he could become lord of Harrenhal? Completely non-sensical. Same with several bandits being able to sneak into a foreign castle with non-existent security and kill a supposedly badass knight. If we’re supposed to suspend our disbelief that much, then literally everything is on the table including Rhaenyra growing a cock and becoming king.

Also, three childbirth scenes in one season seems lazy and excessive. Oh, and aren’t the Targs immune to fire? How’d the dragon burn Daemon’s wife to death?

Did enjoy the boys fighting scene though. But even then, there were inconsistencies. How’d the burly knight put his hands on the prince and escape any punishment? Same when he gave Criston a taste of his own wedding beatdown. Thought the Kingsguard were untouchables?

She is only half Targ and perhaps they have their limits and can't resist dragon fire.

 

[dinostar77]

Im wondering if those who have found the last episode to be good are those who have read the books and understand whats happening a bit more than someone like me who hasnt read the books and really struggled to be engaged with the last episode?

I found a site that summirised what happen between epsiode 5 and 6 so it made more sense. Its very lazy of the show producers to assume all the audience for the show have read the book.

Also why not add a geneology or family tree the start credits that shows the lineage as we jump time periods?

 

[dinostar77]

The new Rhaeynra sucks. That is all. The actress, and the character’s actions. Why she’d be so damned stupid is just beyond me. The young version was really impressive and driven. There had just been something so lost in translation, that it seems like a different person, not an older version.

Daemon got himself a smoking hot wife….sadly, quite literally by the end. I’m also annoyed by the suddenly Machiavellian gimp.

Agreed. It would have been more interesting if she grew up to be more of a tomboy. Interested in politics, strategy, combat, art of war etc. Becoming a formidable foe for alicent down the line when the king eventually dies.

Instead we get a misogynistic view of women from GRRM, that they are good for producing offspring and thats all.

Regardless if that is the view of everyone of that time period, Rhaeyrna rebelling against that, woild have been in keeping with her younger character. Instead we have a flat, dull boring rhaeyrna who is a pale imitation of her youger self.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Im wondering if those who have found the last episode to be good are those who have read the books and understand whats happening a bit more than someone like me who hasnt read the books and really struggled to be engaged with the last episode?

You can tell who has/hasn’t read the books from the comments in here. And it’s lazy writing to expect viewers to read the source material to fill in any blanks. The narrative should be 100% based on what we see on the screen.

 

[Andy_Cole]

I found a site that summirised what happen between epsiode 5 and 6 so it made more sense. Its very lazy of the show producers to assume all the audience for the show have read the book.

Also why not add a geneology or family tree the start credits that shows the lineage as we jump time periods?

Can you DM this to me please

 

[evil_geko]

Why would clubfoot dude betray his brother and father like that? Just so he could become lord of Harrenhal? Completely non-sensical. Same with several bandits being able to sneak into a foreign castle with non-existent security and kill a supposedly badass knight. If we’re supposed to suspend our disbelief that much, then literally everything is on the table including Rhaenyra growing a cock and becoming king.

Also, three childbirth scenes in one season seems lazy and excessive. Oh, and aren’t the Targs immune to fire? How’d the dragon burn Daemon’s wife to death?

Did enjoy the boys fighting scene though. But even then, there were inconsistencies. How’d the burly knight put his hands on the prince and escape any punishment? Same when he gave Criston a taste of his own wedding beatdown. Thought the Kingsguard were untouchables?

They were never said to be "immune" to fire, they just have "strong resistance" to fire, not immunity, and that is only some of the Targaryens, not all.

I don't know why there is so much negativity about new actors, I had no problem connecting them to younger versions, people are too nitpicky. All in all, another great episode!

 

[Robertd0803]

Surely youre invested in the characters themselves over the actors? Daenerys and Jon wouldn't require a recast as there isn't a substantial time skip in a single season. Also they were more or less fully grown adults (in the show atleast) whereas alicent and Rhaenya have been portrayed as children in their formidable years.

Its a mix of both really personally. Probably a testement of how well Milly and Olivia did that you get so invested in them and are sad to see them go.

Flipside being that when the Mountain/Dario Naharis for example got recast in GoT I didnt bat an eyelid. (Dario being recast was a major improvement in the end anyway).

 

[SalfordRed18]

Im wondering if those who have found the last episode to be good are those who have read the books and understand whats happening a bit more than someone like me who hasnt read the books and really struggled to be engaged with the last episode?

You can tell who has/hasn’t read the books from the comments in here. And it’s lazy writing to expect viewers to read the source material to fill in any blanks. The narrative should be 100% based on what we see on the screen.

I've not read any books, I found it pretty easy to follow and engaging.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Sir Cole murdering some guy in front of everybody. I was looking forward to see how the different families would react and the consequences...

Nope. Just jump into the future and imagine that scene never happened.

Never mind the king dying and returning healthier than ever. How did they managed to keep him alive for so many years after being clearly ready to die?

Healthier than ever?! Are you having a laugh?

 

[Cascarino]

(Dario being recast was a major improvement in the end anyway).

This is a minor quibble but I thought the original Daario was a lot better. Stood out both with his mannerisms and appearance, I thought the second guy was just kinda dull

 

[Adam-Utd]

They were never said to be "immune" to fire, they just have "strong resistance" to fire, not immunity, and that is only some of the Targaryens, not all.

I don't know why there is so much negativity about new actors, I had no problem connecting them to younger versions, people are too nitpicky. All in all, another great episode!

Didn't Daenerys literally walk out of a fire unscathed? that seems a bit more than a resistance - I can see why people would think that.

 

[Zen86]

Reckon those moaning about the new actors probably did the same when ol' Ned lost his bonce in season 1

"he was the best thing about this show, there's no point in watching it now!"

 

[BristolRuss]

Also why not add a geneology or family tree the start credits that shows the lineage as we jump time periods?

They do, that's what the literal blood lines are in the opening credits. They have been subtlety changing every episode like more lines coming out of Alicent's sigil as she has more children. Granted it's not particularly easy to spot or follow, but it is there.

 

[George Owen]

Healthier than ever?! Are you having a laugh?

Not going to rewatch, but aside from the hair loss, he looked fine and mentally sound?

The point is that in the last episode he was portrayed as a bleeding dead man walking with hours/minutes to live. Why do that? Doesn't make any sense he still alive 10 years later.

 

[Cascarino]

Didn't Daenerys literally walk out of a fire unscathed? that seems a bit more than a resistance - I can see why people would think that.

It's a bit messy in the show. The first time was a miracle/blood sacrifice/something else, and the second time was also maybe a miracle/blood sacrifice/ass pull. Technically though she's not immune to fire, she gets burnt a fair few times.

As you said, I can see why people think that they're immune, but Targaryens aren't immune to fire. And Dany isn't either, except when she is

 

[mu4c_20le]

It's a Targaryen superpower that can be turned on and off at will. Simples.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It's a bit messy in the show. The first time was a miracle/blood sacrifice/something else, and the second time was also maybe a miracle/blood sacrifice/ass pull. Technically though she's not immune to fire, she gets burnt a fair few times.

As you said, I can see why people think that they're immune, but Targaryens aren't immune to fire. And Dany isn't either, except when she is

I see yeah they certainly didn't help clear that misconception up then!

I genuinely thought that's why they are able to tame Dragons as they weren't scared of being burnt to a crisp

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

She is only half Targ and perhaps they have their limits and can't resist dragon fire.

Targs arent immune to burn/dragon fire, they have some affinity/resistance to thembut they die from them all the time. The instance they don’t (Dany), magic is involved.

 

[dinostar77]

They do, that's what the literal blood lines are in the opening credits. They have been subtlety changing every episode like more lines coming out of Alicent's sigil as she has more children. Granted it's not particularly easy to spot or follow, but it is there.

Didnt know that, will watch opening credits more closely in future

 

[Sylar]

Im wondering if those who have found the last episode to be good are those who have read the books and understand whats happening a bit more than someone like me who hasnt read the books and really struggled to be engaged with the last episode?

I've not read any books, I found it pretty easy to follow and engaging.

Same, havent read the books and dont really read the wikipedia stuff beforehand but found it easy to follow. The change in actors took a short time to get used to, but I didnt see any huge problems with the change in characters or how they were portrayed. They are all much older, with different ways they see life.

Certainly young Rhaenyra felt like that. But this one? We learn she not only didn't learn a thing from her disasterous mistake, but rather decided to make her folly a permanent fixture? Did the maesters forget how to make tea?

Why would she want tea when it looks like shes actively trying for children now? Shes trying to pass the children of as her husbands, and it seems like the husband either cant get it up with her or cant finish with her. And they want to avoid people knowing hes gay (even though they arent subtle in showing us that, but still, everything he does is still in secret).
Right now all accusations are on her straying.

Meanwhile we knew Daemon was a sarcastic hot head who acted except when it came to matters of conception...and now he's a f*cking moody mute who fathered 3 kids.

This one is probably the most realistic, no? This happens all the time. It looked like Daemon wanted to have nothing to do with politics, or anything similar and just wanted to drink, feck and have fun and go from place to place (or settle in pentos as he would be able to do that without the need to go anywhere). with his wife now gone, he will probably revert or change again.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

It's a bit messy in the show. The first time was a miracle/blood sacrifice/something else, and the second time was also maybe a miracle/blood sacrifice/ass pull. Technically though she's not immune to fire, she gets burnt a fair few times.

As you said, I can see why people think that they're immune, but Targaryens aren't immune to fire. And Dany isn't either, except when she is

In the show she is. She’s picking up things too hot to handle and taking baths in water that is too hot from the start. But that is just ‘show Dany’.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Not going to rewatch, but aside from the hair loss, he looked fine and mentally sound?

The point is that in the last episode he was portrayed as a bleeding dead man walking with hours/minutes to live. Why do that? Doesn't make any sense he still alive 10 years later.

In the words of Shaun Of The Dead, he's got an arm off!

He fainted; it did look as though he *might* have died but people faint all the time and go on to live. Who knows what his affliction is.

 

[AltiUn]

I've not read any books, I found it pretty easy to follow and engaging.

Yeah, I'm not finding it particularly difficult to follow either.

 

[Cascarino]

In the show she is. She’s picking up things too hot to handle and taking baths in water that is too hot from the start. But that is just ‘show Dany’.

Gotcha, for some reason I thought I remembered her being burnt a couple of times like her book counterpart, but thinking about it you're right I can't actually recall any scenes where this occurred. Guess the books and the show were mingling in my head a bit.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

He could have become her personal guard without having to kill anyone (she already had his life in her hands). That murder happened just because the show runners needed someone to die in that wedding but it served no purpose at all story wise. No influence on anything. They just jumped to the future and replaced the dead guy with another random gay lover.

No. The show is based on a huge section in Martin's Fire and Blood. They are following GRRM's story and it has nothing to do with the "show runners" making a decision. Martin is heavily involved in this show and their creative decisions are following the storyline as he wrote it.

"Nothing alike" - or is this some weird piss take of yours?

Yeah, he's just trolling. Probably the worst post in the entire thread. They easily look like sisters to me and I found the new Alicent quite convincing as an older version myself.

Why would clubfoot dude betray his brother and father like that? Just so he could become lord of Harrenhal? Completely non-sensical. Same with several bandits being able to sneak into a foreign castle with non-existent security and kill a supposedly badass knight. If we’re supposed to suspend our disbelief that much, then literally everything is on the table including Rhaenyra growing a cock and becoming king.

Also, three childbirth scenes in one season seems lazy and excessive. Oh, and aren’t the Targs immune to fire? How’d the dragon burn Daemon’s wife to death?

Did enjoy the boys fighting scene though. But even then, there were inconsistencies. How’d the burly knight put his hands on the prince and escape any punishment? Same when he gave Criston a taste of his own wedding beatdown. Thought the Kingsguard were untouchables?

No they aren't immune at all. Only Daenerys and that was why she had the named the Unburnt. But not even Aegon the Conqueror was immune to fire.

You can tell who has/hasn’t read the books from the comments in here. And it’s lazy writing to expect viewers to read the source material to fill in any blanks. The narrative should be 100% based on what we see on the screen.

I haven't read any of this storyline in the book and find it quite easy to follow.

 

[dinostar77]

Can you DM this to me please

https://www.avclub.com/house-of-the-dragon-episode-5-6-time-jump-details-1849579165