Give zirkzee a run of games now. Can actually hold the ball up and out muscle defenders
Hojlund or Zirkzee as first choice striker?
- Thread starter Walrus
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
That could work but don't see Ruben doing it
Hojlund is dross and only fit for the scrapheap. Zirkzee ain't exactly great, but his all round game is better so he may as well start. At least until we're fed up with him and then we can pretend Hojlund is better again
Truth be told it should be Osimhen/Gyokeres as our strikers heck ideally both. Unfortunately we pissed money away on Mount, Antony and Rasmus
I'm really beginning to lose confidence in Højlund. His runs are inconsistent at best, he's downright poor as a holdup player, rarely beats a defender in a challenge and doesn't do much with the ball, other than lose it with alarming regularity. That leaves goals, but he doesn't score very much either. At least for now, I doubt he's good enough to be a starting striker in the Prem, let alone for a team with real aspirations.
Zirzkee. Hojlund is the most frustrating striker I can remember at the club in a long time. So many shit runs, bad touches and general ghosting in games.
Hojlund’s touch is so poor. He’s just not a particularly good footballer, his game seems to be more about grappling with defenders, trying to win fouls, than producing anything productive. Zirkzee is silkier on the ball with much better hold up and link up play - he just doesn’t look like he can take chances, neither do.
A goalscoring striker or maybe wide player should be our absolute number one priority.
Our conversion rates are terrible
Our conversion rates are terrible
Hojlund needs taking out of the spotlight. It’s clear he is majorly lacking in confidence and there were points where the fans were getting on his back last night. The fact he couldn’t make the ball stick up top allowed Southampton to push up onto our wing backs and gave us no way out of our half.
I’m convinced there is a good striker in there but the reality is he has arrived at United a few years too early. Zirkzee has a much better first touch and is more clever with his movement, however, he lacks Hojlund’s power and speed which is why we often see either one come on and change the game but rarely play well when they start.
Zirkzee looks to be playing with a bit of confidence now though so I’d be starting him and hoping the confidence continues but it’s a huge ask for a young player to have that kind of consistency in the premier league. We desperately need a senior striker.
I’m convinced there is a good striker in there but the reality is he has arrived at United a few years too early. Zirkzee has a much better first touch and is more clever with his movement, however, he lacks Hojlund’s power and speed which is why we often see either one come on and change the game but rarely play well when they start.
Zirkzee looks to be playing with a bit of confidence now though so I’d be starting him and hoping the confidence continues but it’s a huge ask for a young player to have that kind of consistency in the premier league. We desperately need a senior striker.
Zirkzee deserves a run in the starting eleven but neither inspires a lot of confidence, Zirkzee does at least know how to control a ball, hold it up, and lay it off for a teammate.
It is an area of major priority in the summer, but so are LWB and Midfield.
It is an area of major priority in the summer, but so are LWB and Midfield.
Agree that Zirkzee can control and hold the ball, and lay up is good, but only up to that moment. After that, his movement, passing, are always 0.5s late, finishing is school child level. Hojlund on the other hand, has the opposite. What we need is a Zirklund.
In general I agree but this game, Zirkzee came on in the 53rd minute, iirc. Those opponent legs couldn’t have been gassed by then
They were not long after, if I remember right. The game started to really break down with about 30 minutes left with a lot more space in midfield for Zirkzee to drop into, receive the ball and turn.
He did it really well, and I don't Højlund would have done the same if the roles were reversed. But I also don't think Zirkzee would have played that well in the first half.
I don’t understand why people seem to think that Zirkzee will suddenly lose all his touch and hold up play when he starts. Again, he did it very well against Everton - the last time he started a league match as a 9 (and the Everton defence is far stronger than the likes of Southampton) and he’s also shown it earlier in the season as well.
Not aimed at you, but the “whichever striker starts is bad” seems to be the last myth being perpetrated by those who don’t want Zirkzee to play ahead of Hojlund for some reason. The reality is that Hojlund is consistently producing 2/10 performances and Zirkzee is far better whether he starts or is subbed on - he should be given a consistent run of matches upfront.
We probably should go with Zirkzee for the next game as he massively helped us coming on last night, and is hopefully still riding the high of the winning penalty. Neither look like much of a goal threat right now but it at least seems that Zirkzee contributes more to our game. What's annoying is that I feel that whenever one of them gets starts to show positive signs, they get a run in the team and then become just as poor as the other.
I actually agree with Mike on this one. It’s not that his first touch is worse when he’s a starter, clearly. But when you’re up against fresher legs it’s harder to make an impact
It is undeniable that both have more often underwhelmed as a starter than done well as a sub
I don't think he loses his touch, but the conditions are simply more difficult in the beginning of the game. I don't think that's controversial.
And not to nitpick about too many individual performances, he also started as a 9 against Bournemouth at home and was subbed off after 54 minutes. Really bad performance from Zirkzee, whereas Højlund had one or two decent moments from the bench. Then there was the Newcastle game, where he was absolutely dreadful. It wasn't at 9, I know, but his touch was completely off regardless. So this notion that the starting striker plays poorly is not conjured out of thin air.
This is not me arguing for starting Højlund against Brighton, by the way. Zirkzee clearly deserves it now.
Its because Zirkzee is brutally slow and against fresh defenders of at least decent quality in the Prem thats a issue. We saw it against Newcastle. We desperatedly need to sign a ready made striker. He absolutely deserves to start over Højlund and I hope Zirzee proves me wrong against Brighton.
I think they are the new Dalot v Wan Bissaka. For each player, time played on the pitch is inversely proportional to calls from the fans to start.
Agreed. Maybe none deserves to start. Both lack the quality and the consistency to be 1st team United. But given the options, its best to guess the way the game is going to be and choose which one is better to come off the bench.
Absolutely mind-blowing to think that we spent over £200 million on Hojlund, Antony and Mount, and across 179 appearances they have managed 7 assists between them.
Hojlund's stats are actually not bad - 22 goals in 62 appearances for a youngster new to English football - but it's a worry that he's not showing any signs of progress.
Hojlund's stats are actually not bad - 22 goals in 62 appearances for a youngster new to English football - but it's a worry that he's not showing any signs of progress.
Fair point about Bournemouth. I missed that match and, oddly, didn’t feel it was worth watching subsequently! Looking at the stats, he certainly looks to have had a bit of a shocker there! Anyway, fingers crossed that this time he can carry across his form off the bench to a starting role - he must have done enough to earn a start at the weekend.
Hojlund scored double digit in the premier league. Something that Theo Walcott only achieved twice in his whole career.
Even professional like Danny Welbeck has never achieved double digits goals in the premier league. So there's something special about Hojlund.
Neither are good enough to be first choice, of the two I'd go with Zirkzee at the moment as Hojlund just seems to be losing confidence with every game.
We've become used to averageness from our CF whoever it is over the last few years. A creaking Cavani and that period when Martial actually looked up for it showed what a good one can do for the side. We'll immediately go up a level or two when that position is finally filled again.
We've become used to averageness from our CF whoever it is over the last few years. A creaking Cavani and that period when Martial actually looked up for it showed what a good one can do for the side. We'll immediately go up a level or two when that position is finally filled again.
Just give it on form. Zirkzee starts next game, Hojlund off bench, rinse and repeat until one of them seizes the opportunity.
At the end of last season Hojlund was used as a sub with Bruno starting as a false 9. Rasmus scored a few coming off the bench if I remember correctly.
Zirkzee has looked very sluggish whenever he has started games, compared to being a sub where he has performed better.
I think we all know neither should be the starting CF for a club with aiming for Top 4.
The pair of them are back-up strikers at this moment in their careers. But then swapping and changing them every few games isn't a great solution either.
Just a classic example of bad recruitment that has put together a very expensive unbalanced CF line-up that the manager needs to try and fix.
Zirkzee has looked very sluggish whenever he has started games, compared to being a sub where he has performed better.
I think we all know neither should be the starting CF for a club with aiming for Top 4.
The pair of them are back-up strikers at this moment in their careers. But then swapping and changing them every few games isn't a great solution either.
Just a classic example of bad recruitment that has put together a very expensive unbalanced CF line-up that the manager needs to try and fix.
Zirkzee has started 11 games this season, and he was bad (to downright terrible) in about 8 of them. What is worse, is that of the three or four games that he was decent in, all but one were in his first month or so and he's struggled badly since then bar the Everton game. By the way, Everton wasn't the last time he started at #9; he played there against Bournemouth as well and was arguably our worst player. Although I see somebody else mentioned that as well.
Hojlund has been no better, and in fact it's been a strong trend that both of them have been shit when starting but have looked quite a lot better when coming off the bench.
We''ve now gone through a bit of an extended run with Hojlund as first choice and he hasn't improved (if anything he might be getting worse), while Zirkzee's last few sub appearances have been some of his best. So it's definitely time for him to get the start, and in fact he really should have against Southampton IMO.
It's a cop out saying this. There's fundamentals he simply does not have that go beyond having confidence. He's always struggled with duels, he's always going to have a shakey touch, and it's becoming pretty obvious we don't create chances when he's on the pitch because he makes poor runs, can't hold up the ball and takes a while to pick up speed.
I can put confidence down to finishing, but he's been poor at everything.
He went 14 league games without a league goal last year and had two so far this year.
Sell him and buy a goalscorer or a goalscoring 10 that can combine with Zirkzee.
You are being harsh and I can fully understand why. Hojlund is never going to have the best first touch, however, it is also true that your first touch can be severely impacted by confidence.
Hojlund can perform a lot better than he is at the moment and it is clear that persisting with him is not helping him reclaim his confidence, which is the clubs fault because we can only choose between Zirkzee with him.
I don’t see how it’s a cop out as I recognise we desperately need a senior striker. We have invested £70 mill in Hojlund we can’t just bin him.
One of the best things United can do is to bin players if they’ve been poor for two years.
Must be nice to live in such a simple world.
i mean it is pretty obvious that both players have their flaws, and neither should really be first choice. In an ideal world there wouldve been a much more consistent first choice option while one of these two could focus on improving and be the player to come on when teams are tired and can have a better chance of making a difference.
Time for Zirkzee to star a few and allow Hojlund to build his confidence from the bench
Maybe start both? Stick with me here
Hojlund seems to know where the goal is in when in the box. He has scored some good goals.
Zirkzee seems to be good at holding the ball and playing to a n other even in tight spaces.
Let Hojlund stick to being a Haaland type (basically just makes runs to receive the ball and sticks it in the net not overly big involved in other aspects) and Zirkzee to do the pressing and hold the ball from the long kicks we inevitably end up playing.
Also think this will bring in goals from likes of Amad (as seen yesterday) but also maybe Garnacho on the left
Hojlund seems to know where the goal is in when in the box. He has scored some good goals.
Zirkzee seems to be good at holding the ball and playing to a n other even in tight spaces.
Let Hojlund stick to being a Haaland type (basically just makes runs to receive the ball and sticks it in the net not overly big involved in other aspects) and Zirkzee to do the pressing and hold the ball from the long kicks we inevitably end up playing.
Also think this will bring in goals from likes of Amad (as seen yesterday) but also maybe Garnacho on the left
If anything, Zirkzee should be given time. He has come to a new league which is more physical and quicker, he is adapting.
He should be given a run of games, get him confident. After all, he did sit Saliba on his backside with his dribbling.
He should be given a run of games, get him confident. After all, he did sit Saliba on his backside with his dribbling.
Might be difficult now, but as the wage bill comes down it will be easier.
He's scored 2 goals in the premier league this season. The idea that he's a good goalscorer is a complete myth.
I wouldn't be surprised if Zirkzee has more goals than him in the league.
It is not a myth, 10 in the Pl and 16 in all competions last season in what is widely agreed to have been a terrible United side is a good return. Note also that the claim is that he is good, not elite or spectactular but good, nothing mythical there. The issue is that he has so many other aspects of his game that he needs to improve and that should be happening as an understudy in a stable team environment which is the opposite of what he has experienced. Right now he is beginning to look a bit broken and is not the player he was 12 months ago but he has demonstrated quite comfortably that he is a good finisher when we are playing well and his confidence is high.