We've ended up in a really strange situation where both of them know they're playing because the other guy wasn't doing well enough, not because they themselves have done enough to secure the place in the starting XI. It's kinda the opposite of healthy competition.
Hojlund or Zirkzee as first choice striker?
- Thread starter Walrus
- Start date
I haven't seen anything from either of them to convince me they are Manchester United material. Both needs to be replaced come summer.
There is no clear winner in this debate.
The manager might as well flip a coin in the dressing room before kick-off to see which one gets the nod.
Then beg Sir Jim for a new CF every chance he gets.
The manager might as well flip a coin in the dressing room before kick-off to see which one gets the nod.
Then beg Sir Jim for a new CF every chance he gets.
The reality is for the last 4 years, we’ve been progressively worse at scoring PL goals, we only scored over 70 PL once and that was under Ole in 20/21 season.
2020/21 Season - Goals Scored 73/Av 1.93
2021/22 Season - Goals Scored 58 /Av 1.52
2022/23 Season - Goals scored 58/ Av 1.52
2023/24 Season - Goals Scored 57 Av 1.50
2024/25 Season - Goals Scored 28 Av. 1.23
(23 Matches)
The massive decline in scoring goals represents the utter garbage we have as striking options this year. Even with a major system change to Amorim’s 3421 you need 6/7 attacking options in your front 3 plus one of your wing back to be more of a goal scoring winger like Amad so you would need probably 8/9 attacking players to utilise Amorim’s system and hope they all average about 9 or 10 goals each, Your main number 9 gets maybe 27/28 goals, your backup nine gets 12 and the other 40 goals you need get shared by 6/7 players.
That’s how many goals you need to compete for a PL, at least 80 goals or 2 goals per game.
Now let’s look at our squad in overall games not just PL;
Players who could potentially play at; L10/R10/RWB/LWB/CF
K Mainoo - 22 matches 0 Goals 0 Assists
M Mount - 12 Matches 0 Goals 0 Assists
Diego Dalot - 34 Matches 0 Goals 2 Assists
N Mazraoui - 33 Matches 0 Goals 2 Assists
Bruno Fern. - 33 Matches 9 Goals 11 Assists
Garnaucho - 33 Matches 8 Goals 5 Assists
Rashford - 24 Matches 7 Goals 3 Assists
R Hojlund - 28 Matches 7 Goals 1 Assists
J Zirkzee - 33 Matches 4 Goals 2 Assists
Antony - 14 Matches 1 Goal 0 Assists
Amad - 33 Matches 9 Goals. 7 Assists
C Eriksen - 19 Matches 4 Goals 5 Assists
If we look at the PL it’s truly awful however Amorim clearly doesn’t want Rashford near the team and we have to respect that however, he could use Eriksen more in cameos as the playmaking creative 10 next to a more mobile one on the opposite side. With the players currently at his disposal he should be looking to try Amad at RWB, Eriksen at R10, with Garnaucho at L10 with Mount also playing either position when he’s fit, plus Bruno these 4 should be enough in the 10 role, what we need is an out and out 9 and we need him asap.
Mazraoui and Dalot and to a lesser extent Malacia currently offer nothing from an attacking wing back point of view, Mallacia should be sold now, Dalot benched and Mazraoui playing as Defensive Right CB, Alternating with Yoro.
If we bring in one attacking left wing back now and Shaw gives us 11/12 PL games for the rest of the season the team will start creating many more chances, however we need to get rid of both our number 9’s and get one decent one in now and then Gykores or Osimhen in the summer.
They PL stats are as follows ;
R Hojlund 18 matches 2 Goals 0 assists
1 Goal Involvement every 9 matches
J Zirkzee 23 Matches 3 Goals 1 Assist
1 Goal Involvement every 5.75 matches
People go on about chances and graveyard shift but neither of these two players make the right runs or smell goals, they never ever use their physicality to bully defenders, they don’t attack the ball at corners, they don’t bend the right runs and they both snatch at the chances they get!
To be honest they are both bottom 5 PL strikers at best and time to stop pretending and just put them both out of their misery,
Rashford might be a lazy, entitled Pr…but he’s twice the goal scorer either of these are?
This is the main reason we now average 1.23 goals per PL game and are currently 12th place!
2020/21 Season - Goals Scored 73/Av 1.93
2021/22 Season - Goals Scored 58 /Av 1.52
2022/23 Season - Goals scored 58/ Av 1.52
2023/24 Season - Goals Scored 57 Av 1.50
2024/25 Season - Goals Scored 28 Av. 1.23
(23 Matches)
The massive decline in scoring goals represents the utter garbage we have as striking options this year. Even with a major system change to Amorim’s 3421 you need 6/7 attacking options in your front 3 plus one of your wing back to be more of a goal scoring winger like Amad so you would need probably 8/9 attacking players to utilise Amorim’s system and hope they all average about 9 or 10 goals each, Your main number 9 gets maybe 27/28 goals, your backup nine gets 12 and the other 40 goals you need get shared by 6/7 players.
That’s how many goals you need to compete for a PL, at least 80 goals or 2 goals per game.
Now let’s look at our squad in overall games not just PL;
Players who could potentially play at; L10/R10/RWB/LWB/CF
K Mainoo - 22 matches 0 Goals 0 Assists
M Mount - 12 Matches 0 Goals 0 Assists
Diego Dalot - 34 Matches 0 Goals 2 Assists
N Mazraoui - 33 Matches 0 Goals 2 Assists
Bruno Fern. - 33 Matches 9 Goals 11 Assists
Garnaucho - 33 Matches 8 Goals 5 Assists
Rashford - 24 Matches 7 Goals 3 Assists
R Hojlund - 28 Matches 7 Goals 1 Assists
J Zirkzee - 33 Matches 4 Goals 2 Assists
Antony - 14 Matches 1 Goal 0 Assists
Amad - 33 Matches 9 Goals. 7 Assists
C Eriksen - 19 Matches 4 Goals 5 Assists
If we look at the PL it’s truly awful however Amorim clearly doesn’t want Rashford near the team and we have to respect that however, he could use Eriksen more in cameos as the playmaking creative 10 next to a more mobile one on the opposite side. With the players currently at his disposal he should be looking to try Amad at RWB, Eriksen at R10, with Garnaucho at L10 with Mount also playing either position when he’s fit, plus Bruno these 4 should be enough in the 10 role, what we need is an out and out 9 and we need him asap.
Mazraoui and Dalot and to a lesser extent Malacia currently offer nothing from an attacking wing back point of view, Mallacia should be sold now, Dalot benched and Mazraoui playing as Defensive Right CB, Alternating with Yoro.
If we bring in one attacking left wing back now and Shaw gives us 11/12 PL games for the rest of the season the team will start creating many more chances, however we need to get rid of both our number 9’s and get one decent one in now and then Gykores or Osimhen in the summer.
They PL stats are as follows ;
R Hojlund 18 matches 2 Goals 0 assists
1 Goal Involvement every 9 matches
J Zirkzee 23 Matches 3 Goals 1 Assist
1 Goal Involvement every 5.75 matches
People go on about chances and graveyard shift but neither of these two players make the right runs or smell goals, they never ever use their physicality to bully defenders, they don’t attack the ball at corners, they don’t bend the right runs and they both snatch at the chances they get!
To be honest they are both bottom 5 PL strikers at best and time to stop pretending and just put them both out of their misery,
Rashford might be a lazy, entitled Pr…but he’s twice the goal scorer either of these are?
This is the main reason we now average 1.23 goals per PL game and are currently 12th place!
This question is like asking if I'd prefer to go forward into my mum or backwards onto my dad.
Like asking who should be the lead surgeon in for the removal of your brain tumour.
A) Dr Nick
B) Dr Zoidberg
A) Dr Nick
B) Dr Zoidberg
Can we put Martinez to be the striker? He score more goals as a CB.
As someone who loves both, and really wants them to succeed, it sadly isn’t here. New striker is needed
We'd have scored more goals by playing Mctominay as a striker rather than playing either of these 2 lads. Neither of them will make any sort of career at United and both need binned off in the summer.
From yesterday’s game, any striker who would have played that would look rubbish.
The team were so deep, they tried to press on the front foot but our players can’t win 50/50’s where other teams win it majority of the time. This causes our defenders to drop deep.
Notice how there’s a big gap in the middle, Fulham one pass and they get in.
Both players are not the answer as the team isnt on the same wavelength. Defenders dropping deep and attackers pressing.
The team were so deep, they tried to press on the front foot but our players can’t win 50/50’s where other teams win it majority of the time. This causes our defenders to drop deep.
Notice how there’s a big gap in the middle, Fulham one pass and they get in.
Both players are not the answer as the team isnt on the same wavelength. Defenders dropping deep and attackers pressing.
Just play Garnacho through the middle and at least we'll have some chances on the counter
The performance from Hojlund was shocking yesterday. Whatever he touched turned to shit. Zhirkee was a lot better than him. But both of them just does not fill you with any confidence.
I would sign Cunha and Muembo (Brentford) and one target man and sell both of these. Our target should be goal scorers now.
I would sign Cunha and Muembo (Brentford) and one target man and sell both of these. Our target should be goal scorers now.
At this point, in the last 20 minutes of a game I'd rather have Maguire or Casemiro up. They could at least get a header or two on target.
Zirkzee still better. Hojlund is shocking, how could we spend 70m on him
Remember when people thought the problem was Martial not running hard enough or smiling enough. Was still multiple levels above these two.
Zirkzee has been comfortably better over the last month or so, but this was his weakest game in that time. Was still a bit better than Hojlund had been though.
Thing with Zirkzee is he was 40m euros and we can probably recoup if we wanted to sell. You can see he's clearly better than Hojlund too, so my view is to just pursue with him as a 1st choice instead and see if he can't go up a level.
Højlund needs to be loaned out ASAP. While he's not a top tier striker, he's not as bad as he looks right now. He's regressing as a player, running around like a headless chicken.
A lot of people talk about the choice between Hojlund and Zirkzee as our striker being an issue because neither are good enough, and that's entirely fair. Another glaring problem that I think gets less coverage is that you're choosing between two players with essentially polar opposite skill sets.
Hojlund's main strengths lie in his athleticism. He's very quick given his size, making him difficult to deal with if he's able to build momentum by running into space. On top of this, he's quite a clinical finisher. His weaknesses are that he doesn't use his body very well when engaged by an opposition centre-half, which when combined with a poor first touch means that he struggles in tight spaces. To boil it down, Hojlund is a striker who needs space in behind to run into and if you can deny him that then you can pretty effectively take him out of the game.
Zirkzee, on the other hand, is good at using his body to hold of opposition defenders. He's got a good first touch to complement his large frame, and he uses the ball cleverly to bring teammates around him into play whilst occupying an opposition centre back. In other words, Zirkzee's good in tight spaces. Where Zirkzee falls short is where Hojlund is at his best; he's not particularly fast and doesn't pose as much of a goal threat as a Premier League striker should because he struggles to attack space.
A lot of people viewed this as a boon because it gives us something different but when you're looking to implement a strict tactical system as Amorim is, it isn't helpful to have the entire complexion of your attack when you switch between your strikers.
Hojlund's main strengths lie in his athleticism. He's very quick given his size, making him difficult to deal with if he's able to build momentum by running into space. On top of this, he's quite a clinical finisher. His weaknesses are that he doesn't use his body very well when engaged by an opposition centre-half, which when combined with a poor first touch means that he struggles in tight spaces. To boil it down, Hojlund is a striker who needs space in behind to run into and if you can deny him that then you can pretty effectively take him out of the game.
Zirkzee, on the other hand, is good at using his body to hold of opposition defenders. He's got a good first touch to complement his large frame, and he uses the ball cleverly to bring teammates around him into play whilst occupying an opposition centre back. In other words, Zirkzee's good in tight spaces. Where Zirkzee falls short is where Hojlund is at his best; he's not particularly fast and doesn't pose as much of a goal threat as a Premier League striker should because he struggles to attack space.
A lot of people viewed this as a boon because it gives us something different but when you're looking to implement a strict tactical system as Amorim is, it isn't helpful to have the entire complexion of your attack when you switch between your strikers.
No not yet
I get he is sticking to his ideas but is there no world he either plays both together (I think they would complement each other nicely) or drops both?
If we can add an LWB who is attacking and will run past Garnacho/Bruno (whoever is in that role) I do think our strikers will suddenly look a lot more threatening but, until that happens, both get shafted by the system in my opinion and you might as well tweak it short term.
If we can add an LWB who is attacking and will run past Garnacho/Bruno (whoever is in that role) I do think our strikers will suddenly look a lot more threatening but, until that happens, both get shafted by the system in my opinion and you might as well tweak it short term.
I'm all for joining the pile-on, both Hojlund and Zirkzee are looking rubbish right now... but let's point out here that Hojlund has already done, at the age of 20/21 and playing for our most rubbish teams of the modern era, what Welbeck has yet to pull off in 15 seasons of PL football: hit double figures in league goals.
Anyone remember when Tim Howard and Roy Carroll were fighting to be our number 1? This reminds of of that. Fighting to be least worst option
I'd rather take super Danny Welbeck now, than either Hojland or Zirkzee, let alone when he was in his prime.
Probably quite a way off being ready then in fairness. I’d like to see him play a few cup games or come on in the last ten mins or so if league matches if we’re winning comfortably (probably discounts this season )
If you watch Citeh and the way they set up, it’s no wonder Haaland scores frequently, the team is ideal for an actual 9. They gift him chances and he puts enough of them away to be regarded as elite.
Hojlund was a regular scorer prior to finding himself in a scheme invented by ETH which, even when I played was crap. There was no direction to feed a striker and it’s no wonder his confidence has fallen off a cliff. Until our set up actually considers a 9 striker as crucial, we will just circulate people into a whirlpool of noth8ng. Goyirkes is not physically gifted as Haaland but seems the system supported chances into the box for a genuine scorer, he also suffered playing for a club in the EPL which didn’t suit his game.Time will tell but its system related for a 9 to flourish , the money spent of flashy non providers hasn’t helped in any way.
Hojlund was a regular scorer prior to finding himself in a scheme invented by ETH which, even when I played was crap. There was no direction to feed a striker and it’s no wonder his confidence has fallen off a cliff. Until our set up actually considers a 9 striker as crucial, we will just circulate people into a whirlpool of noth8ng. Goyirkes is not physically gifted as Haaland but seems the system supported chances into the box for a genuine scorer, he also suffered playing for a club in the EPL which didn’t suit his game.Time will tell but its system related for a 9 to flourish , the money spent of flashy non providers hasn’t helped in any way.
In the most recent Devil in the Details podcast Carl Anka mentioned that Hojlund has scored 2 Premier League goals from an XG of 2.3. Zirkzee isn't much better. The main issue we have isn't that our strikers are missing tons of chances (they're not) - they're not getting chances. Sure, a chunk of that is on them - they could make better runs, link play better etc. But the bigger picture is that our tactics, our team, just isn't creating chances for our strikers
Once we sign a LWB, would it not work to have Zirkzee as a 10 with Hojlund up front, he has the work rate for it - and with attacking wingbanks we might actually create chances.
As a combined goals and assists. Eriksen who's barely played has more than Hojlund and Zirksee.
I'd like to see Bruno pushed up and stick Eriksen where Bruno was. The strikers are awful and Eriksen should have a bit more protection behind this with the 3 CBs
He was never fit, you have forgotten?
Who's better? Well I'd rather ask Robin van Persie to play for 5 months and he's 41.
Could we play a false 9 with nobody in the main attacking thrust? Like Spalletti’s Roma did?
—————————-Bruno———————-
—-Garnacho————-Zirkzee—————
Mazraoui—-ugarte—-Collyer—-amad—
———Martinez—-de light —Yoro———
—————————-onana———————-
—————————-Bruno———————-
—-Garnacho————-Zirkzee—————
Mazraoui—-ugarte—-Collyer—-amad—
———Martinez—-de light —Yoro———
—————————-onana———————-
You're just choosing Zirkzee but for some reason playing him deeper when one of his best strengths is holding the ball up.
If we're going to play the ball long to a striker and expect him to hold it up the we have to play Zirkzee.
I've no idea why we were playing the ball to Hojlund like that the other night. Granted, he's not playing well at the moment but we should at least play to his strengths. He's never using his strength to take a high ball and knock it down or flick it on.
I've no idea why we were playing the ball to Hojlund like that the other night. Granted, he's not playing well at the moment but we should at least play to his strengths. He's never using his strength to take a high ball and knock it down or flick it on.
When you look at the passing abilities of our defenders and midfielders, it makes perfect sense to me. Long balls to Højlund is not a good option - agreed. But for the defensive organisation, I think it's a better option than trying to play out from the back.
Well yeah, that's what I'm saying. If we're going to play that way we shouldn't be starting Hojlund. We can bring him on later to change things up if that's the game plan from the off.
i honestly think that whoever we have at 9 will struggle if they are not nbeing given a service. If Gjokeres or Osimhen come, will they be lambasted for not scoring if they don't get a service. Yes, Hojlund's first touch is poor, Zirkzee isn't quick, but a combination of the two would be ideal. Zirkzee's hold up play and awareness combined with Hojlund's pace would be ideal
And even with Zirkzee, who seems to have that as the major skillset to his game, it's still bloody hard for him to really do anything that really evolves the play. I honestly think you could put Haaland up top for us and he would barely touch the ball.
This would only work i believe with either a change to 2 up top or Hojlund at the 10 making runs off Zirkzee, as we need the ST to hold up play (ZZ is better at this) and then for players to run in behind (Hojlund is better at this)
So maybe this would work
-------------------Zirkzee
-----------Hojlund - Bruno
Dorgu-Mainoo-Ugarte-Amad
-----Martinez-Maguire-Maz
--‐----------------Onana
But of the two I'd rather we got in an experienced striker, and sent one or both on loan, ideally to Italy to get their stock and confidence up before making a decision to sell
