Hojlund/Kolo-Muani

Jev said:
I rate him but not as a future top striker. He's a good young play but I don't believe he will reach the required level to be a United regular. It's also worth remembering that 18 months ago, he was a FC Copenhagen reject. He was never an obvious talent.
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I can kind of see it aswell and I’m worried about buying him

His first touch is shocking at times and seems like if he doesn’t have the space he can trip over himself under pressure.

His finishing isn’t that eye catching either even if I forget about the stats.
 
Jev said:
I rate him but not as a future top, top striker. He's a good young play but I don't feel confident that he will reach the required level to be a United regular. It's also worth remembering that 18 months ago, he was a FC Copenhagen reject. He was never an obvious superstar talent.
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I concur (also a Dane).
 
Bebestation said:
I can kind of see it aswell and I’m worried about buying him

His first touch is shocking at times and seems like if he doesn’t have the space he can trip over himself under pressure.

His finishing isn’t that eye catching either even if I forget about the stats.
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So what should we do about striker situation
 
KirkDuyt said:
Would be a silly transfer, Gimenez is not ready for such a step at all.
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I dont think Hojlund is either, just 1 season at atalanta with reduced mins but i get you about giminez. just feel like he can be a predator type striker back up even if we bought deep lying creative fws like kane or kolo muani considering difference in style and even cost.
 
Shame apparently Wahi has a bad attitude because he looks like a good player.

Seems like it won’t effect clubs like Chelsea & Arsenal.
 
Bebestation said:
I can kind of see it aswell and I’m worried about buying him

His first touch is shocking at times and seems like if he doesn’t have the space he can trip over himself under pressure.

His finishing isn’t that eye catching either even if I forget about the stats.
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Funny enough he is the first danish striker since Brian Laudrup that truly excites me.
We had decent strikers like Jon Dahl and Ebbe Sand, but to me Højlunds ceiling looks much higher, and his profile fits perfectly with what we need in my opinion.
I was never convinced by Dolberg for what its worth.
 
Lyng said:
Funny enough he is the first danish striker since Brian Laudrup that truly excites me.
We had decent strikers like Jon Dahl and Ebbe Sand, but to me Højlunds ceiling looks much higher, and his profile fits perfectly with what we need in my opinion.
I was never convinced by Dolberg for what its worth.
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Hopefully you are right
 
Lyng said:
Funny enough he is the first danish striker since Brian Laudrup that truly excites me.
We had decent strikers like Jon Dahl and Ebbe Sand, but to me Højlunds ceiling looks much higher, and his profile fits perfectly with what we need in my opinion.
I was never convinced by Dolberg for what its worth.
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I do wonder if his profile is apparently ‘what we need’ simply because City have Haaland. I can’t recall us saying that this is the type of striker we needed before. The consensus was more that we needed a striker who could link.

It’s a tough market for strikers anyway, and to get a really top player, there would need to be some speculating involved. In that sense, a Hojlund or say Gift Orban may be a good idea. I do worry about Hojlund’s general level of ball control and passing though. Bar one actual live game I’ve only seen him on YouTube, but those areas stood out to me as appearing weak. We could definitely use two forwards this summer.
 
Only watched Muani play 2-3 times last season but he looked quite good for what it's worth.
 
Rozay said:
I do wonder if his profile is apparently ‘what we need’ simply because City have Haaland. I can’t recall us saying that this is the type of striker we needed before. The consensus was more that we needed a striker who could link.

It’s a tough market for strikers anyway, and to get a really top player, there would need to be some speculating involved. In that sense, a Hojlund or say Gift Orban may be a good idea. I do worry about Hojlund’s general level of ball control and passing though. Bar one actual live game I’ve only seen him on YouTube, but those areas stood out to me as appearing weak. We could definitely use two forwards this summer.
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The main thing we lacked last season was goals. Very often great passes and crosses would lead to nothing because none of our offensive players where in the right spot and Weghorst was to slow to get there.
Id argue the pace and ability to find the right spot is exactly why we need a Højlund type attacker. His link up play is not on the level of Martial but is certainly better than Weghorst and he is much faster.
Yes we should sign two forwards, but I doubt we will and if we only sign one then I think Højlund is the closest to what we need within our budget.
 
croadyman said:
The feeling seems to be that he has a very similar style to Rashford but could be wrong
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He is a bit more willing to pass the ball hence all of his assists but you're right he is a bit similar to Rashford from the little I've seen. I also think that he is well suited to playing in the Premier League, where teams generally create plenty of counter-attacking opportunities and opposition sides afford forwards plenty of space to run into. A buddy who follows the Bundesliga more closely thinks he is the next big thing, who knows?
 
It depends on what price you could secure each for. If it's the transfermkt valuations, it'd be Rasmus Hojlund all day. I think he's probably more of a classic box threat than Muani. He's also much younger so you'd have to think he can close and quickly exceed the marginal gap in goal contributions per 90 between the two players. My big issue with Hojlund is the price. There's just no way I'd be spending 70/80mn on a guy who has no real underage pedigree and only half a season of senior football in a top league under his belt. You keep those fees for the Vini Juniors/Endricks/Jude's that are known about since they were babies. But neither would I pay that fee for Muani as from memory he significantly overperformed his xg last season and we need some runners to complement the likes of Sancho, Bruno and Antony.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
It depends on what price you could secure each for. If it's the transfermkt valuations, it'd be Rasmus Hojlund all day. I think he's probably more of a classic box threat than Muani. He's also much younger so you'd have to think he can close and quickly exceed the marginal gap in goal contributions per 90 between the two players. My big issue with Hojlund is the price. There's just no way I'd be spending 70/80mn on a guy who has no real underage pedigree and only half a season of senior football in a top league under his belt. You keep those fees for the Vini Juniors/Endricks/Jude's that are known about since they were babies. But neither would I pay that fee for Muani as from memory he significantly overperformed his xg last season and we need some runners to complement the likes of Sancho, Bruno and Antony.
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Hojlund appears to lack in ball control/technique for me, and in a league where they snap at you - you don’t get away with untidiness in the same way.

RKM is similar to Isak in profile, Haaland has confused people - not being some target man is fine enough in the PL.
 
Rozay said:
Hojlund appears to lack in ball control/technique for me, and in a league where they snap at you - you don’t get away with untidiness in the same way.

RKM is similar to Isak in profile, Haaland has confused people - not being some target man is fine enough in the PL.
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Højlund doesn't really lack ball control or technique, though. Obviously, he's no Agüero or Suarez but the way he's being framed as someone who lacks technique because he is a tall Scandinavian is far from the truth.
My guess is that a lot of these assumptions are based on the 2 minute video of him a few pages back where he failed to control the ball with his back to goal, but if you take a look on fbref, it shows he is in the 99th percentile for progressive passes received which shows he is actually very good with his back to goal and hold-up play.
 
If these two are around the same price then I would lean more to the French player as I think Rasmus is 50mil at the most.
 
zaafi said:
Højlund doesn't really lack ball control or technique, though. Obviously, he's no Agüero or Suarez but the way he's being framed as someone who lacks technique because he is a tall Scandinavian is far from the truth.
My guess is that a lot of these assumptions are based on the 2 minute video of him a few pages back where he failed to control the ball with his back to goal, but if you take a look on fbref, it shows he is in the 99th percentile for progressive passes received which shows he is actually very good with his back to goal and hold-up play.
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Well that assumption is certainly not accurate in this case. Heaven knows what him being tall and Scandinavian has to do with anything. Sounds like Zlatan Ibrahimovic!

I’m not an fbref man, but ‘progressive passes received’ doesn’t mean anything to me. We cannot see the context of these scenarios, the speed of play, the pressure he is under etc. A successful pass and control sequence does not mean it was controlled well enough, quickly enough and that the right follow on pass or shot was actioned and at the right time.

His play doesn’t appear particularly smooth to me, and I do worry a bit as to how he will deal with close pressure and equal strength. That said, he has a lot going for him too and I wouldn’t be mad at his cycle.
 
Rozay said:
Well that assumption is certainly not accurate in this case. Heaven knows what him being tall and Scandinavian has to do with anything. Sounds like Zlatan Ibrahimovic!

I’m not an fbref man, but ‘progressive passes received’ doesn’t mean anything to me. We cannot see the context of these scenarios, the speed of play, the pressure he is under etc. A successful pass and control sequence does not mean it was controlled well enough, quickly enough and that the right follow on pass or shot was actioned and at the right time.

His play doesn’t appear particularly smooth to me, and I do worry a bit as to how he will deal with close pressure and equal strength. That said, he has a lot going for him too and I wouldn’t be mad at his cycle.
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Surely if you haven’t seen enough of his progressive passes received or similar scenarios then you haven’t seen enough to judge if he’s smooth or not?
 
Kolo Muani is a good forward player, but I won't play him in our system as a number 9.

I think he will be limited at the very high level and will not be a player that will bring us to the top, such as Haaland or Kane may be.

I still think that he needs to develop more and have one or two more years before making the step forward.
 
Kolo Muani just looks to much like a wide forward playing centrally in a system where it suits that. But for our purposes I don't see him like a CF if we were to get him. Not the way Ten Hag wants. Hojlund is pretty much the exact profile that Ten Hag wants up there, or at least potential wise. He's young, he's raw, will take time, but ten hag needs an all rounder who can hold up play and lead the line playing as a proper CF. Hojlund has that. He's also very strong and fast and quite good technically to add. It's a very good mix of skills to develop.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I can't take anything anyone does in the German league seriously.... so Hojlund all day.
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Plenty of players from the Bundesliga have been very very good. I know, we’ve been burnt a few times now, but there have been so many success stories that you can’t just stop scouting / buying players from that league.

Admittedly, I’ve only watched the YouTube clips of both Hojlund and Muani, but it can’t be close, can it? Hojlund is SO RAW!!! I think people are projecting an improvement curve which may not come. He’s got massive control issues, and there’s nothing to suggest he’s adept at movement in the box. He’s not a great passer either. I was ready to shit on Muani, but he’s the finished article. 6’2” with pace and expert control. Some here are saying that he’s a winger more than a 9, but he just gives opposing CBs fits. He’s physical too, not a brute like Hojlund, but enough so that when combined with his pace and quickness, he’s a real handful. Combine that with his passing, I really think he could be a synergistic signing. If he scores 15 goals but has 10 assists and gets Bruno and Antony going, it could be a really fun attack.

Reminds me of Drogba tbh. Drogba was better from distance and Muani is a better dribbler, but there is a lot of power in both of their games. Interesting too, because some are saying Muani is so much older, but if memory serves, wasn’t Drogba a late bloomer as well?
 
Rozay said:
I do wonder if his profile is apparently ‘what we need’ simply because City have Haaland. I can’t recall us saying that this is the type of striker we needed before. The consensus was more that we needed a striker who could link.

It’s a tough market for strikers anyway, and to get a really top player, there would need to be some speculating involved. In that sense, a Hojlund or say Gift Orban may be a good idea. I do worry about Hojlund’s general level of ball control and passing though. Bar one actual live game I’ve only seen him on YouTube, but those areas stood out to me as appearing weak. We could definitely use two forwards this summer.
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To be honest I don't think his technique or control on the ball is a weakness, he's young and raw and a big guy so it'll look different and it won't be like an Aguero, but I do think he can become a player like Dzeko in a way. He's shown instances of the hold up play and just leading the line, and has the raw skills for it. Dzeko of course is elite in his hold up play, but that comes with time. He's shown good bits of close control and skill too to open up a yard of space for a shot, so I'd say he's more likely to go the way of a technical bigger CF rather than a brute and purely physical CF.

In terms of profile, it's always dependent on manager... hojlund has the look of a potentially class all round big CF with decent pace though. Every club out there would love one of those. Somewhere along the realms of Ibra, Džeko, Cavani, Lewandowski, Kane to name the best CFs over the past 10 years. Or someone like Giroud (who obviously didn't have the pace) who was more mid tier. They all would fit quite well imo.
 
bosnian_red said:
Kolo Muani just looks to much like a wide forward playing centrally in a system where it suits that. But for our purposes I don't see him like a CF if we were to get him. Not the way Ten Hag wants. Hojlund is pretty much the exact profile that Ten Hag wants up there, or at least potential wise. He's young, he's raw, will take time, but ten hag needs an all rounder who can hold up play and lead the line playing as a proper CF. Hojlund has that. He's also very strong and fast and quite good technically to add. It's a very good mix of skills to develop.
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I guess I’m less interested in bringing in a project. Clearly, Ten Hag prefers Hojlund, but at 70m? I think he preferred Hojlund at 40-50m, but if Atalanta wants 70m, why not pay 70-80 for Muani?

I see this as potentially a 2-step strategy. We need two quality strikers. Maybe Muani this season and then go big in a couple seasons for Hojlund after he’s proven himself, or whoever is the 9 du jour?
 
DSG said:
I guess I’m less interested in bringing in a project. Clearly, Ten Hag prefers Hojlund, but at 70m? I think he preferred Hojlund at 40-50m, but if Atalanta wants 70m, why not pay 70-80 for Muani?

I see this as potentially a 2-step strategy. We need two quality strikers. Maybe Muani this season and then go big in a couple seasons for Hojlund after he’s proven himself, or whoever is the 9 du jour?
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At the same price I'd prefer Hojlund to Miami because one fits the profile of player we are looking for and the other doesn't. Hojlund also happens to be just 20, kolo Muani is turning 25 later this year. And I really don't see him as a lone #9. He can do the role for smaller sides who need different things from their CF, hojlund plays it in a way that a big club needs and in a way that can progress into someone like Dzeko, Cavani, Lewandowski, etc. I don't see that with Kolo Muani. He's kinda like a lite version of Alexander Isak, who I'm not still not convinced if he's a 9 or a wide forward (though is class).

It's also just because of the CF market. There is basically nobody out there. I'd rather try on someone like Hojlund as it's what we need and if we get it right, then we're sorted for years, rather than spend big on somebody we know doesn't really fit like we want, but we've spent so much that we're locked into a decent but not special player with a questionable fit.
 
bosnian_red said:
At the same price I'd prefer Hojlund to Miami because one fits the profile of player we are looking for and the other doesn't. Hojlund also happens to be just 20, kolo Muani is turning 25 later this year. And I really don't see him as a lone #9. He can do the role for smaller sides who need different things from their CF, hojlund plays it in a way that a big club needs and in a way that can progress into someone like Dzeko, Cavani, Lewandowski, etc. I don't see that with Kolo Muani. He's kinda like a lite version of Alexander Isak, who I'm not still not convinced if he's a 9 or a wide forward (though is class).

It's also just because of the CF market. There is basically nobody out there. I'd rather try on someone like Hojlund as it's what we need and if we get it right, then we're sorted for years, rather than spend big on somebody we know doesn't really fit like we want, but we've spent so much that we're locked into a decent but not special player with a questionable fit.
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I don’t think Ten Hag would be interested in Muani unless he thought he would fit his tactics. There wouldn’t be any noise of our interest. For fecks sake, it’s mental the asking prices for these unproven (at this level at least) strikers. Here’s how I see this:

Hojlund: 70m + 175k/wk = annual outlay of 23m
Muani: 90m + 200k/wk = annual outlay of 28m
Kane: 100m + 300k/wk = annual outlay of 35m

If you assume 30 goals for Kane, 20 goals for Muani and 10 goals for Hojlund:
Kane: 1.16m per goal
Muani: 1.4 m per goal
Hojlund: 2.3m per goal

Kane probably guarantees you top 4 CL, (60m in revenue) challenging for the Prem and maybe a cup and CL semifinal (an extra 20m).
Muani gets you top 4 (60m) CL knockouts (no change) and a long cup run, maybe a cup.
Hojlund fighting for CL spots.

I don’t know. The delta between Hojlund and Kane is 12m/year. But with Kane you are in for so much more in prize money and extra CL revenue, it pretty much justifies the expense.

Seems like it’s Kane and not close…
 
I want a number nine. Hojlund has the build of a very promising striker.

Muani reminds me more of Rashford. I'd rather an actual striker so has to be Hojlund for me
 
Should be both not one or the other but that's Glazernomics for you. Their styles are different, Hojlund is a classic no.9 whereas Muani is a flair player who's probably more comfortable as a left-sided inside forward.
 
DSG said:
I don’t think Ten Hag would be interested in Muani unless he thought he would fit his tactics. There wouldn’t be any noise of our interest. For fecks sake, it’s mental the asking prices for these unproven (at this level at least) strikers. Here’s how I see this:

Hojlund: 70m + 175k/wk = annual outlay of 23m
Muani: 90m + 200k/wk = annual outlay of 28m
Kane: 100m + 300k/wk = annual outlay of 35m

If you assume 30 goals for Kane, 20 goals for Muani and 10 goals for Hojlund:
Kane: 1.16m per goal
Muani: 1.4 m per goal
Hojlund: 2.3m per goal

Kane probably guarantees you top 4 CL, (60m in revenue) challenging for the Prem and maybe a cup and CL semifinal (an extra 20m).
Muani gets you top 4 (60m) CL knockouts (no change) and a long cup run, maybe a cup.
Hojlund fighting for CL spots.

I don’t know. The delta between Hojlund and Kane is 12m/year. But with Kane you are in for so much more in prize money and extra CL revenue, it pretty much justifies the expense.

Seems like it’s Kane and not close…
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These players are likely on deals that are at best one-third these salaries, there's no reason for them to get deals that high.
 
It’s a tough one. I like Hojlund’s penalty box presence and physicality but Kolo Muani looks a creative spark as well as a good finisher.
 
DSG said:
I don’t think Ten Hag would be interested in Muani unless he thought he would fit his tactics. There wouldn’t be any noise of our interest. For fecks sake, it’s mental the asking prices for these unproven (at this level at least) strikers. Here’s how I see this:

Hojlund: 70m + 175k/wk = annual outlay of 23m
Muani: 90m + 200k/wk = annual outlay of 28m
Kane: 100m + 300k/wk = annual outlay of 35m

If you assume 30 goals for Kane, 20 goals for Muani and 10 goals for Hojlund:
Kane: 1.16m per goal
Muani: 1.4 m per goal
Hojlund: 2.3m per goal

Kane probably guarantees you top 4 CL, (60m in revenue) challenging for the Prem and maybe a cup and CL semifinal (an extra 20m).
Muani gets you top 4 (60m) CL knockouts (no change) and a long cup run, maybe a cup.
Hojlund fighting for CL spots.

I don’t know. The delta between Hojlund and Kane is 12m/year. But with Kane you are in for so much more in prize money and extra CL revenue, it pretty much justifies the expense.

Seems like it’s Kane and not close…
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Those numbers are so off though... Atalanta is starting at a 70m EURO asking price, which is £60m. United probably will limit it at £50m which is a 10m drop. Probably a deal that would be bonus based to hit the upper end of the price anyway. Hojlund is on about £10k per week currently. There's not a chance he's going up to 175k :lol: He's 20, it's easier to negotiating a lower starting point like 70k as his next contract will be the big one anyway when he's going to be more developed.

Kane would instantly demand to be the top wage earner (so 400k per week) and we wouldn't be able to get him for less than £120m. So that's more than twice what we'll likely spend on Hojlund, with Kanes being much less based on incentives than Hojlund being more of a future growth fee.

Yes, any fee comparison focusing on only 23/24 season and nothing else will be heavily in favor of Kane. He's literally 10 years older than Hojlund. The issue is that with Kane, his cliff could literally happen at any point. Past 30, you just don't know when a player will decline and when the decline comes, it happens rapidly. Hojlund just turned 20, we would be paying for what he can become while being confident we can handle the transition period.

Which brings me to an even more important aspect - what is our immediate target. 23/24. Realistically, are we title challengers? Nah. Not at all for me. There's a chance to fluke it like Arsenal tried to do, but we aren't there yet. We've got more developing to do as a team, there are a lot of changes on and off the pitch taking place that you just don't see a team that isn't fully settled who actually gets over the line. Kane doesn't get us over the line, while not getting Kane doesn't drop us out of a CL qualifying position. Our squad building should be looking at 24/25 as the start of the title push years. If Kane is available on a free, by all means get him. But if Hojlund hits and develops like the club would hope, then we'd be in a position to challenge repeatedly every year, rather than waiting for him to be 120m+ like Osimhen is.

If we were settled on and off the pitch more, have had a title challenge season under our belts, weren't about to have a big system change but just needed that final piece, then yeah, go and spend 100m on the top striker you are missing. We aren't there though.
 
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