Havana Syndrome is ok but Chinese Coronavirus is not?
Havana Syndrome | New links to Russia
- Thread starter VorZakone
- Start date
Well, one is the name of a city while the other is an ethnicity.
Oh my bad, I assumed you wanted a snarky, pointless conversation when your opening remark post was this:
How many Cubans in the diaspora are getting bullied because of the Havana syndrome affecting a few US government employees?
You're aware anti Chinese sentiment in the west increased during covid? harrassing, beating, insults, (rapes too?)
I'd have been okay with the term "Chinese coronavirus" if there were only reasonable, non stupid people.
if we're entertaining the idea that this has validity to it, i have a very hard time believing that the russians beat the cia to developing such technologies. the us spends more on research and development via its military than russia spends on its entire military. the intel agencies in the us have a budget larger than any other country's military in total. the us is home to the world's most advanced technological companies which all cooperate with government on issues like backdoors and often receive government contracts within the weapon industry.
to the extent that such weapons are real, weapons which use energy, or directed energy, then there is almost zero chance that the us intel agencies have no idea what it's about or where it comes from. putin seems quite paranoid about the whole thing which is how i read his comments about smartphones and other things. is it related? no idea.
the point is that it would take an enormous task of self-deception to consider this thing real and then think that the cia and the rest of that bunch have no idea about its origin or usage yet the russians, whose entire economy is 50% of us military expenditure, or less than that, have masterminded the entire thing.
teslsa, amazon, microsoft, google, and every other tech company you've heard of and those you haven't work with the us government across a broad range of issues including weapons. what's the russian equivalent to that? us weapons companies like raytheon and the rest are also to be considered. there isn't a country on earth that puts more effort into developing nasty shit to use as weaponry than the united states. whether you argue it does that primarily to defend itself or not doesn't really bear on the overall argument which is simply that the cia's naivety is not credible.
It's not that Russia beat the US to it but rather that the Russians would be willing to actually use it.
I doubt the Russians beat the US to the technology. But given Putin's behavior (Skripal, Litvinenko, the mysterious falls of Russians from buildings etc), it is very likely he would be the one to actually use it.
maybe. i also doubt the us would be reluctant to use such weapons in whatever battlefields or operations it engages in. my sole point here is that the cia's insistence that they cannot possibly figure the thing out is just not credible. that might be the obvious that they don't want to disclose their own methodology. but the fact remains that you cannot trust these agencies for the simple reason that they are designed to be untrustworthy. they're spooks.
it's not a good choice. cia on the one hand and putin on the other, and then "which one is lying". i'll opt for "both".
The CIA generally doesn't communicate publicly, so your only choice here would be Putin.
The US would absolutely use such technology. No doubt about it.
If we were to think of this as an actual thing (which is unlikely) then the most feasible explanation is the US testing this technology on their own to see how it works in practice
but they are communicating publicly here. we only know about "havana syndrome" because they told us about it.
Its actually not even remotely feasible. This is a foreign government (likely the Russians) attempting to terrorize American diplomats.
You don’t think these weapons exist?
They don't communicate on matters like this unless it is approved at a higher level. They likely know who is behind it but just can't out and out say it publicly due to sources and methods.
It absolutely is feasible, it wouldn’t even be the first time they’d done such a thing. Your suggestion is far less likely, although by far the most likely is, as stated several times, an MPI.
Is there a precedent for anyone using directed energy weapons to terrorize diplomats for not apparent reason ? If you know of one, I'd love to know it.
I think there’d be physical medical evidence on so much as a single victim if they were being used, something which there isn’t in a single one of these reported cases.
Testing experimental weaponry on their own? Absolutely.
I don’t think they are though, it’s an MPI. You keep ignoring that bit though.
what does it benefit the general public to know about this at all? if you want to conceal method, then why bother making the health complaints cia-external to begin with? why declassify? they obviously want it to be public knowledge for whatever reason they decided.
Physical medical evidence being what? Like a burn?
Any kind of unusual result on a single scan. Any at all.
Because there is significant public interest in it. They have been doing an investigation for at least a year and many are interested in what they found out.
Recently ? I'd love to know more.
but the public interest has been manufactured by the cia itself. agents don't just go outside the agency to make potentially sensitive information public. so the initial complaints were signed off on in terms of releasing them into the public domain. then the follow up was also signed off on. that's my point.
you wouldn't have had a scientist revealing to the public that they think project manhattan has given them injuries during project manhattan.
That’s almost the whole point of directed energy weaponry. It often doesn’t leave a telltale wound or scar.
I agree with Raoul the CIA would never lie they’re a super trustworthy organisation.
MPI, or Mass Psychogenic Illness. Formerly Mass Hysteria. Loads of cases through history, fascinating subject. Known to have been happening back to the Middle Ages, where groups of people with some kind of connection (usually living in the same village, or working in the same place) all come down with the same symptoms that are never explained.
It hasn't though. There have been reports of diplomats falling ill outside Embassies for years now, which has been covered extensively in the press, hence the public interest in the results of the investigation.
Good man. Always knew you'd come through.
Have you heard of mass psychosis syndrome ? Its used extensively by the CIA, which is likely what is happening here (especially if you know the history of the CIA).
that's my best guess. i also think the cia are engaging in some of their own through messaging.
"we don't comment on things like this" said the cia as it commented on the thing that it doesn't and absolutely won't talk about in public. not going to buy that.
The statement appears to say they don't comment on specific incidents, not that they don't comment on the existence of something that is affecting people. The latter has already been covered in the media for the past few years, so making a statement about it wouldn't seem inappropriate.
do you think they know more about it, including its origin and purpose, as well as possess the means to use such things, themselves? that's my only real argument here. that they are not being honest. and that you can explain their dishonesty away by invoking the need to maintain secrecy re methodology but you cannot seriously pretend that a secret intel agency is being on the level with the public regarding a potentially devastating new "energy weapon".
their incredulity is the farce here, not the existence, still possible-existence, of such things happening.
I don't think its a devastating new energy weapon since the US, Russians, and Chinese all have them in some form for use in military contexts. What is different here is that the Russians appear to be using it to target civilians for no reason other than to randomly terrorize diplomats and politicians, with no particular political goal behind it.
If Biden wants to come out and make an accusation against Putin in this regard, then that is up to him, not one of his intel agencies. There are obviously geopolitical implications of openly accusing the Russians of something like this, in that doing so could be interpreted as triggering Article 5, at a time when Putin's regime is imploding from within.
but there's also the fairly well known principle that these agencies and their counterparts, all in the same game for a different banner, communicate with each other all the time via backchannels. if the us thought russia was doing this, and their next step would be to escalate, then they would have made it known to the russians, and perhaps they have. putin has, as an example, levied the same accusations against the united states. he says they are experimenting on their own people rather cryptically and then moves onto the general untrustworhtiness of electronic devices. so i'd imagine there is some kind of dialogue running in the background and has been for a long time. so i agree on your first paragraph. i don't think it's all that new or unknown beyond any given agency. what i do not know, and i doubt anyone beyond a select few do, is what form or quality the thing takes. i wouldn't expect to know it. but you would expect businesses and agencies whose sole purpose revolves around this kind of thing to have a fairly solid idea seeing as they develop this stuff in the first instance. they have ways of detecting each other's tradecraft. we know this.
on the second, i don't think biden has any hesitation in accusing putin with anything. he generally tends to make strong accusations, not unwaranted by the way, before retracting them. "this man cannot stay in office" before the white house clarified that he didn't mean it in the "we're going to topple him" sense. it's been the stategy of the united states from the get-go in this war. a bit like the trumpian mechanism of saying something outrageous, or something he knows will be taken as severely out of place or dangerous, before reteating back behind "you've misunderstood me". it works to introduce the idea and then to deny any intent regarding its introduction. putin does it too. most of them, the world's powers as they're called, tend to do it.
my general position is that i do not trust the cia and i do not trust putin. all of these vast institutions are typically corrupt as feck. i'm not sure there's an exception to the rule.
Seems like it's you that wanted that by the state of your responses to something that wasn't even aimed at you.
'Energy weapon' keeps getting mentioned but seems like as they have no idea what it is, it could just as easily be some sort of chemical? Which is right up Russia's strasse.