Hating Lukaku

[Wednesday at Stoke]

So we are just going to pretend like Rashford hasn’t been poor for a while now and that he is generally a better striker than Lukaku? Relying on Rashford and Martial as our strikers for a whole season would be suicide. We have been shit with Rashford up top as well. The problem is behind the forwards.

Rashford is not a better striker than Lukaku. He's a kick and rush footballer. Your claim that Lukaku completely lacks hold-up play is just bizzare. Sure he has a bad touch every now and again but christ is he better than Rashford or Martial.

This caf overrates a few quick kids and are happy to ignore all the times they bundle over the ball or lose it carelessly to an opponent. But when Lukaku has a bad touch they go wild. Funnily enough Lukaku was scoring for fun with relegation sides in the Premier League at Rashford/Martial's age. He's got it in him. The OT Barcelona match was a great example of how good his hold up play can be, and how shit our attack suddenly becomes when Martial comes on instead and shares the front line with Rashford.

Sounds a lot like recency bias to me. The whole forum was giddy about the possibilities of an interchangeable front three when rashford, martial and lingard were playing well to start solskjær's tenure. Now that they have had a dip in form we find things to criticize.

The fact is that Lukaku has had more than a season worth of consistent game time to improve but he's been more or less the same player he was at everton.

Rashford and martial have been dicked around every which way to accommodate zlatan, Lukaku and sanchez until now when they are getting a consistent opportunity to show their level.

They might not be the answer but I'd much rather make that decision with adequate information and playing time.

 

[VP89]

I've made a new thread to take us away from the twitter debate and discuss why sections of our caf seem to dislike Lukaku so much.

The argument from their side is that he's simply not good enough, but I ask how he isn't and Rashford/Martial/Lingard are?

He's an established premier league striker capable of sustained periods of good form under a proper manager. His physicality is important and his hold-up play is no way near as bad as some posters like to claim. The Barcelona match after he went off at OT for Martial is a great example of how shite we are without him, and our lack of threat at the Nou Camp is another one.

I just don't get why so many people want him gone. It's not like a viable alternative exists right now, and there are other positions which are a bigger weakness than his.

 

[ErranMorad]

Perfectly within reason.

 

[VP89]

Sounds a lot like recency bias to me. The whole forum was giddy about the possibilities of an interchangeable front three when rashford, martial and lingard were playing well to start solskjær's tenure. Now that they have had a dip in form we find things to criticize.

The fact is that Lukaku has had more than a season worth of consistent game time to improve but he's been more or less the same player he was at everton.

Rashford and martial have been sucked around every which way until now when they are getting a consistent opportunity to show their level.

They might not be the answer but I'd much rather make that decision with adequate information and playing time.

It's not recency bias, I've always thought Rashford and Martial are terribly overrated and need upgrading. You can't really count his time under Jose this season, because it's not a reflection of his 5 years in England really, and he got what 27 goals in his debut year? Are you really going to make that argument?

Anyway apologies for this in the twitter thread. I've made a new thread to discuss.

 

[Untd55]

Lukaku is our best attacker. He is the only player, before this season, who has got into double figures. He is the only one provenly capable of scoring 20 goals in a season.

Martial has the finishing ability, but he has very few other assets, to be honest. He is quick, but his dribbling and positioning are not great.

Rashford's finishing is massively inconsistent. He has bad decision making. His dribbling is alright-ish.

Lingard - just no.

 

[VP89]

Lukaku is our best attacker. He is the only player, before this season, who has got into double figures. He is the only one provenly capable of scoring 20 goals in a season.

Martial has the finishing ability, but he has very few other assets, to be honest. He is quick, but his dribbling and positioning are not great.

Rashford's finishing is massively inconsistent. He has bad decision making. His dribbling is alright-ish.

Lingard - just no.

Martial likes to run fast before jogging and pass it back. Or mis-pass it. Or go on a great dribble and score a goal (too rare).

Rashford has about 4 tricks in his locker and the others rest on passing the ball round a player and outrunning him. I don't think either serve us as long term options up front.

 

[haram]

He is better than both Rashford and Martial.

 

[breakout67]

Sell Lukaku - get Jovic or Piatek - fantastic

Sell Lukaku - persist with 'Rashy' and 'Marshy' - mediocrity

Strikers that can score 1 in 2 don't grow on trees (eg. Lukaku), if we can get a player that can score 2 in 3 then we have a world class player (eg. Kane and Aguero). Players that score 1 in 1 are truly special players.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

There is hate and dislike against all our players here. For some reason there is little love going around.

We got a lot of good players, but not as good as City and Liverpool right now. Could need some uppgrades in attack mainly, but no reason to hate our attackers for not being at the very best.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

He’s the modern day Emile Heskey, that’s not a slight on him, they’re basically the same type of player, Heskey was good at Leicester and decent at Liverpool.
Lukaku is perhaps a slightly better version of Heskey, and he can cross, but that is really it.

No chance he’ll ever be good enough for a team like Manchester United, unless the world of football completely changes and we go back to 1980s football, don’t see it happening.

 

[DWelbz19]

If we’re looking for ‘serious upheaval’ this summer, we’ll need to generate some of that cash (or cash back) from sales.

Lukaku is one of about four or five players in our squad who could fetch a handsome fee, and of those four or five is the only one who is pretty much surplus to requirements.

Teams we expect to spend big will most likely do similar - Madrid will almost certainly have one of Isco, Bale etc. leave the club, Barcelona may offload Coutinho, Juventus with Dybala and Costa.
———
It’s a strange one because I think our entire attack (bar Mata) is much of a muchness in that they’re all pretty good with blatant flaws, and nobody top class. Any one of them could be sold to allow renovations that the manager wishes, and in this case it’s Lukaku who is clearly least in favour with the manager.

 

[haram]

Rashford is homegrown and is developing. Manc born and bred. I get why he should stay.

Someone though honestly tell me why Lukaku should be sold ahead of Martial. I am not advocating the sale of either because I truly believe the problems are elsewhere. This clamouring for Lukaku to be sold makes no sense to me.

 

[breakout67]

He’s the modern day Emile Heskey, that’s not a slight on him, they’re basically the same type of player, Heskey was good at Leicester and decent at Liverpool.
Lukaku is perhaps a slightly better version of Heskey, but that is really it.

No chance he’ll ever be good enough for a team like Manchester United, unless the world of football completely changes and we go back to 1980s football, don’t see it happening.

This is probably true, but so is Martial being a discount Anelka and Rashford being whatever he is (not a world class striker or on his way to being one). In my opinion all 3 are at the squad level for a title winning team, not good enough to demand starting every game.

 

[Greck]

More like Not rating Lukaku. His playing time requirements outweigh his ability. He experienced a reasonable drop in playing time and his agent is already talking about leaving.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I don't 'hate' him. I just think he has a poor all round game compared to other top strikers, and has not scored enough goals to make up for that.

 

[Cassidy]

Just from the Barcelona benching?

In a game we were clearly going to have minimal ball percentage we needed the higher workrate players, that's all.
Rashford outworks Lukaku. I wouldn't take it as á sign we're trying to shift him.

We have enough work on players to bring in without shipping more out.

No he has been on the bench alot this season. Plus high work rate and energy forwards seems to be what Ole wants

 

[sullydnl]

There's a bit of a "square peg in round hole" vibe about Lukaku.

He's definitely our best goalscorer and probably our best attacker generally. On the other hand, in a lot of people's eyes his presence in the team will always entail stylistic compromises that hold us back from developing as a team.

A bit like if Fellaini had been a better player to the point where he was actually our best midfielder. It would have been odd to sell him as a priority but you would never have quite been happy with him in the side either because of the type of player he was. Except unlike Fellaini, Lukaku would probably fetch a hefty fee from a big club.

But yeah, I certainly don't get the hate for Lukaku. In fact I quite like him. If the rebuilding job on our hands is a multi-season one (and it is) then holding on to our current best goalscorer for the time being and strengthening other areas first might make sense. Though if he left and we actually replaced him..... *shrugs*

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

This is probably true, but so is Martial being a discount Anelka and Rashford being whatever he is (not a world class striker or on his way to being one). In my opinion all 3 are at the squad level for a title winning team, not good enough to demand starting every game.

I don’t think Martial is as good as Anelka was, not yet.

 

[Based Adnan]

He has only scored more than 20 goals in the league once in his career (25 in his last season at Everton). Outside of that as an actual footballer he's technically quite poor. Bad first touch, can't take on a man and for a man as big as he is he's quite poor at holding up the ball. He's best at running in behind despite his size and is quite limited as a footballer. A Manchester United side looking to challenge for titles needs much more then that.

I don't hate him, nor do I think we've played to his strengths during his time here. Mourinho tried to use him as a target man which, as I said, he is not despite his physique.

 

[Cassidy]

It's not recency bias, I've always thought Rashford and Martial are terribly overrated and need upgrading. You can't really count his time under Jose this season, because it's not a reflection of his 5 years in England really, and he got what 27 goals in his debut year? Are you really going to make that argument?

Anyway apologies for this in the twitter thread. I've made a new thread to discuss.

They are overrated. The issue is so is Lukaku and they all need upgrading.

However Rashford at least seems to have alot of room for improvement and doesn't need to be the no1 and can also play in all 3 forward positions (less so on the right of course)

Cannot say the same for Lukaku which is why it makes sense for him to be the one to be replaced.

As for Martial well, I dont have much to say about that one. If we sold and replaced I wouldn't say no.

 

[breakout67]

I don’t think Martial is as good as Anelka was, not yet.

Hence why I said discount Anelka

 

[Florida Man]

I like Lukaku but I think he’s not apt for is. He has no first touch at all.

 

[Cassidy]

Hes not good enough but I actually like him. He seems like a nice guy

 

[esmufc07]

He gives his all but I sometimes think he is asked to do too much, and I think we often ask him to do things that aren't to his natural strengths. I pray he leaves in the summer as I don't think we will ever be a top team with him leading the line.

 

[ErranMorad]

I don't 'hate' him. I just think he has a poor all round game compared to other top strikers, and has not scored enough goals to make up for that.

I don't think anyone 'hates' him. Most people criticize him because of his lack of technical ability & suitability for a striker at a top club. Although, the 'hate' word had to be used in the OP for affect.

 

[2E_MUFC]

Lukaku was never going to be an all rounder. If we had an actual right wing and a play maker he would score more goals. He will definitely score more goals than Rashford who is no way near clinical enough upfront. I’ll be sad to see Lukaku go. He offers us a different dimension when we play.

 

[bond19821982]

The difference between Lukaku and the best strikers in the league is massively evident. Watch Aguero or Kane then Lukaku and you can see why people want to upgrade him.

Who you get and whose available, those are the key questions. Not whether we should look to upgrade.

Yes, we got to upgrade but with who? There aren't many options out there who can guarantee 15-20 goals a season .

 

[el3mel]

He's a big headache for me.

He lacks so much in what I'll want in our striker but he's more reliable goal scorer than Martial and Rashford at least.

I don't know what to do with him anymore. I think we'll need to upgrade over all the 3 (Lukaku, Rash and Martial) though.

 

[Hoboman]

He’s the modern day Emile Heskey, that’s not a slight on him, they’re basically the same type of player, Heskey was good at Leicester and decent at Liverpool.
Lukaku is perhaps a slightly better version of Heskey, and he can cross, but that is really it.

No chance he’ll ever be good enough for a team like Manchester United, unless the world of football completely changes and we go back to 1980s football, don’t see it happening.

Heskey scored 110 goals in 516 games in EPL and 7 in 62 for England, Lukaku - 113 in 249 in EPL and 45 in 79 for his national team. How on earth that counts as 'slightly better'? On top of that, their playing style is completely different.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Rashford is homegrown and is developing. Manc born and bred. I get why he should stay.

Someone though honestly tell me why Lukaku should be sold ahead of Martial. I am not advocating the sale of either because I truly believe the problems are elsewhere. This clamouring for Lukaku to be sold makes no sense to me.

It's easier to scape goat someone who doesn't belong in a narrative. The yardstick changes for everyone except Lukaku.

 

[luke511]

He isn't elegant, and top strikers need to have an elegance about their game. He's a tactically limited player as well, in a set up where it's him vs 2 cbs, he turns to rubbish.

 

[Red_toad]

The difference between Lukaku and the best strikers in the league is massively evident. Watch Aguero or Kane then Lukaku and you can see why people want to upgrade him.

Who you get and whose available, those are the key questions. Not whether we should look to upgrade.

So are we buying both Kane and Aguero to replace him or just one of them?

Ole can only work with what’s available to him, pointless stating x player who is completely unobtainable is a better option, as they play for another team.

 

[breakout67]

Heskey scored 110 goals in 516 games in EPL and 7 in 62 for England, Lukaku - 113 in 249 in EPL and 45 in 79 for his national team. How on earth that counts as 'slightly better'? On top of that, their playing style is completely different.

Lukaku absolutely pisses over Heskey as a player. But the comparison is easy because of race and build for those with prejudice.

 

[Damien]

Rashford is homegrown and is developing. Manc born and bred. I get why he should stay.

Someone though honestly tell me why Lukaku should be sold ahead of Martial. I am not advocating the sale of either because I truly believe the problems are elsewhere. This clamouring for Lukaku to be sold makes no sense to me.

Not sure it is so much a clamouring but for some reason Ole has been preferring Martial to start instead of Lukaku of late despite the latter performing better. Lukaku is unlikely to be happy to continue to be second choice striker when Rashford is Ole's clear first choice and the player's representatives has been talking about playing in other countries so if he's not happy with his role and we can get the money for him as well as a replacement that fits what the management's vision of playing is, it makes sense to sell.

Personally I wouldn't sell as like you I think the problems are elsewhere.

 

[Bubz27]

So are we buying both Kane and Aguero to replace him or just one of them?

Ole can only work with what’s available to him, pointless stating x player who is completely unobtainable is a better option, as they play for another team.

Don't be facetious.
That's obviously the level we should be aiming for. Lukaku is a player we should look to upgrade. Not saying he's one of the priority positions, but we should look to improve our striking options if the right player became available.

If Dybala or Griezmann become available, we should be in the market rather than saying nah it's okay we have Lukaku.

 

[Canagel]

His agent was reported as saying he wants the new country experience so he'll push for a move himself regardless. hes not someone we should fighting to keep that's it. Not hating or anything.

 

[The Urban Goose]

It's not "hating"; it's just the opinion that he's not of the quality needed to make the jump back into the elite, sustaining regular title and CL challenges.

 

[Bubz27]

I'd replace him if a top option became available. Simple really.

If Griezmann, for example, became available, I'd be looking to sell Lukaku and get Griezmann.

 

[sullydnl]

Lukaku absolutely pisses over Heskey as a player. But the comparison is easy because of race and build for those with prejudice.

He has also been compared to Benteke (another inferior player with a different style of play) for similar reasons.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes, we got to upgrade but with who? There aren't many options out there who can guarantee 15-20 goals a season .

Id take Jovic and then spend the extra money on a quality RW.

Id even throw a bunch of money at Milan for Piatek