Should we not see that as ambition on Lukaku's part? That he actually wants to play and start? Do we think Martial is happy being second fiddle as well? If he is happy, should we not be concerned with his ambition? Both Lukaku and Martial are on similar wages as well.
Hating Lukaku
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Should we not see that as ambition on Lukaku's part? That he actually wants to play and start? Do we think Martial is happy being second fiddle as well? If he is happy, should we not be concerned with his ambition? Both Lukaku and Martial are on similar wages as well.
feck sake.
Keep on dreaming champ. Reach for the stars, but remember it’s a long way to fall and disappoint is such a bitter pill.
Mean while Ole will continue with what he has available to him... No way is he getting funds to genuinely rebuild the squad. £100 million max, so not enough for a genuine top level striker.
Yep, the poster that made that comparison got taken to the cleaners because it was obviously racist. Lukaku is a good striker, just below that world class level, but gets dogs abuse on here because his first touch is bad.
Using the race tag for a comparison between Lukaku and Heskey is even easier, and utterly predictable.
I didn’t even take into consideration their skin color, how many international center forwards who are built like a tank and posses the technique of a league 2 player, ever played in the PL?
A few, but how many of them played for big clubs? not many, hence the comparison.
Perhaps you should look at yourself first, and stop giving people’s skin color such importance in your life, friendo.
Anyway, Redcafe is extremely fickle so I shouldn’t be surprised with some suggesting Martial be sold (although you have typically been consistent in your criticism of him since he’s been here).
To answer your question, Martial may or may not make the next step we want him to. However, what would be stupid is to not find out. The caf flicks from hailing to wanting players to be sold from month to month, and two poor months from Martial has brought a lot of them out now. Similarly with Pogba. Simply, Martial has more ability than Lukaku. He is three years younger than Lukaku. His deficiencies are not with his talent, they are concerning his attitude. Lukaku, on the other hand, does not lack in terms of attitude. He lacks in talent. In basic talent at that. He is more of a known quantity than Martial.
I am in agreement that sorting out what is behind the attack is at least of equal importance. That said, the caf has a tendency to rank departures and signings in order of priority, and I’m not sure it works like that. I see stuff like ‘I’d see Rojo before x (insert bit about how poorly run we are and how stupid Ed is)’, however, what difference does it make? Lukaku is not a United level striker. We have players who are worse in other positions, but you don’t sell them all in order of preference. The market dictates that, and if there is strong interest in Lukaku in the summer it will be considered. By him as much as by us, as he isn’t first choice here.
Personally, I’ve said a few times that I have a concern about a lack of top/reliable players aged between 26-30 in our team, and I’m not keen on having a front line aged 23 and under. That said, if Lukaku was replaced adequately, I wouldn’t oppose it. We certainly wouldn’t be fecking stupid to consider selling him. He’s not that good for that.
The stats posted in the other thread shows Rashford has 9 goals in 1509 minutes up front, which is about 16-17 games, so a goal every other game or slightly better.
People throwing up Martial's goals stats need to understand he doesn't play striker or had any decent playing time there. Let see how many Lukaku gets from the right wing in 20 games. Not that I'm a big supporter of Martial.
Problem with Lukaku is he scored 27 in all comps last season and now has only 15 and looked absolutely awful the whole way through. I wish that Lukaku from last season was here who looked lighter and sharper. We've performed so much better with him out the team.
I respect the man and can see him wanting to move as playing on the right wing is no good and he's Belgium's front man so it's more what's best for him as well. I don't see him hanging around as a squad player trying to help United.
People throwing up Martial's goals stats need to understand he doesn't play striker or had any decent playing time there. Let see how many Lukaku gets from the right wing in 20 games. Not that I'm a big supporter of Martial.
Problem with Lukaku is he scored 27 in all comps last season and now has only 15 and looked absolutely awful the whole way through. I wish that Lukaku from last season was here who looked lighter and sharper. We've performed so much better with him out the team.
I respect the man and can see him wanting to move as playing on the right wing is no good and he's Belgium's front man so it's more what's best for him as well. I don't see him hanging around as a squad player trying to help United.
I dont think we have had a manager yet since Moyes who got 100m max in their first summer
Another comparison is Sturiddge. But sturiddge has better technical quality yet klopp didn't see him as part of the team. The manager might prefer to go for a different style of striker and so players that didn't fit the style will be more likely to go.
Should never have been signed.
But most importantly, we should have a clear idea of how we want to play. And any player that doesn't fit that mould, should be gotten rid off.
Personally, don't have anything against him.
But most importantly, we should have a clear idea of how we want to play. And any player that doesn't fit that mould, should be gotten rid off.
Personally, don't have anything against him.
You come across extremely condescending.
Fair enough, I’ve remembered Heskey as a better goal scorer.
Lukaku is a much better version of Heskey then, either way that’s not the type of player who should ever be leading line for Manchester United.
I stand by their playing style comparison though.
Lukaku has as many goals this season as our overrated kid Rashford.
Thats a huge reason to replace him
IMO.
However the bigger reason for me is his all round play and lack of clinical play in top games.
Finding someone who has that as a 9 though is difficult so it may be necessary to heavily improve other attacking positions e.g LW/RW and use Rashford/Martial as the strikers. They don't need to score 30 if we have a prolific goalscorer in the wide areas.
Thats a huge reason to replace him
IMO.
However the bigger reason for me is his all round play and lack of clinical play in top games.
Finding someone who has that as a 9 though is difficult so it may be necessary to heavily improve other attacking positions e.g LW/RW and use Rashford/Martial as the strikers. They don't need to score 30 if we have a prolific goalscorer in the wide areas.
Heskey had much better movement and agility than Lukaku ever will. Just watch the Uefa SC game between Bayern and Pool and you'll see what i mean
Technique of a league 2 player apparently. I've hit the nail on the head.
Rashford has 9 goals in 19 games as CF, averaging 167 minutes per goal. He is actually worse than a 1 in 2 striker. Lukaku has average 1 in 2 for 3 seasons running, and this will be one of his worst seasons in his career.
Under Ole:
Rashford - 167 minutes per goal
Lukaku - 134 minutes per goal
This is all the while Lukaku is getting junk minutes and being played on the right in multiple games.
I've tended to think of him as a bigger, stronger, faster and better version of Chicharito, another player who had stylistic limitations.
I actually think Lukaku's all round play is underrated, people had made their minds up 5 years ago that he was a donkey and were never going to change their minds.
It's his goalscoring that he gets credit for, but that's the bit that frustates me most. He doesn't get on the end of enough chances. He's a very streaky player, he goes long spells without scoring a single goal, and then hits a hot streak. If a chance falls to him when he's not on a hot streak, he'll probably miss. He also has a horrible habit of missing big chances in big games.
It's his goalscoring that he gets credit for, but that's the bit that frustates me most. He doesn't get on the end of enough chances. He's a very streaky player, he goes long spells without scoring a single goal, and then hits a hot streak. If a chance falls to him when he's not on a hot streak, he'll probably miss. He also has a horrible habit of missing big chances in big games.
Another enigma to add to our squad filled with enigmas. I don't fancy any of our attacking options.
That might be skewed as he had a burst of goals when brought back, which is useful for United. I don't want him to go and have supported him for a long time. Have you got the stats of his time before Ole this season when he had a long run up front?
Putting the ball in the back of the net is the hardest thing to do in football. Lukaku's record speaks for itself. He's a proven 1 in 2 striker.
Look at Rashford when he's in front of goal, his brain just freezes, he's all over the place. Martial is the only one that can compare to Lukaku's finishing and he hasn't played up front for years now.
With our lack of quality and massive inexperience, i would not be letting Lukaku leave. If we were replacing him with a top striker then fair enough, but Rashford? Makes no sense for me.
Look at Rashford when he's in front of goal, his brain just freezes, he's all over the place. Martial is the only one that can compare to Lukaku's finishing and he hasn't played up front for years now.
With our lack of quality and massive inexperience, i would not be letting Lukaku leave. If we were replacing him with a top striker then fair enough, but Rashford? Makes no sense for me.
Martial has not improved since he first arrived. Martial has had many bad games before Ole arrived (and now that he is here) but it was usually blamed on someone else, or other factors. Movement off the ball is a talent and takes skill. So yes, that is a deficiency outside his attitude and mentality. People think Martial is this outstanding talent with problems with just his attitude. No. He has some outstanding qualities such as his dribbling but lacks in other areas for a forward. He does have deficiencies with his talent. Lukaku is a talented striker. You do not score the amount he has if you lacked talent.
If he's such a good striker then why didn't any of the elite clubs come for him? Only Utd and Chelsea(apparently) were in for him.
I'd sell some other players ahead of Lukaku, we know he will score goals if given chances. Having said that, I wouldn't be massively disappointed if he left, but I just don't see who we can realistically bring in to improve on him right now. I'd rather we improve the service around him for now and then see where we're at after that. He's also seemingly the only player we have that can cross.
None of it is good viewing if you're looking at this season pre-Ole. Rashford scored 4 in 20 and Lukaku scored 8 in 21. Truly shocking stuff from our forwards. The only one who gave a good account of himself was Pogba and he's a midfielder.
Why is this even a thing? Players should be judged on their merits, not whether they came through the academy or not.
I would go one step further and ask why Rashford is even no.1 to begin with?
He is the poster boy of our poor spending.
You spend that amount of money, you expect a world class player. Lukaku will never be a world class player.
Some people say he's still young, he can improve, etc. I would have rather spent 40m on a 20 year old up-and- comer and spend time developing them then trying to improve Lukaku...
You spend that amount of money, you expect a world class player. Lukaku will never be a world class player.
Some people say he's still young, he can improve, etc. I would have rather spent 40m on a 20 year old up-and- comer and spend time developing them then trying to improve Lukaku...
He is developing opposed to Martial who clearly isn't. On top of being younger and from the academy he is clearly ahead of Martial in the pecking order in terms of status.
We are getting in Griezmann if we can offload Lukaku to someone. That's my prediction. If we can't, we'll have to stick with him next season
In that summer we could have spent the same on Belotti or Morata. Really what was we supposed to do? We had recently spent 50 million on a 19 year old Martial as well.
Are you living in 2010? £75m for a striker gets you a tier 2 striker (which Lukaku is). If you want a world class forward you're looking at north of £100m. If we wanted to buy Harry Kane 2 seasons ago he would have cost much more than Lukaku.
It's simple. They had top class strikers already. They didn't need him.
He's a 1 in 2 striker. I never said he was top class.
But compared to our strikers, he's really good and a proven scorer.
I think it would be a bit silly to let proven scorers leave when we're already struggling for goals and have got an inexperienced team to begin with.
Do you not agree?
2 years ago i always wanted to go for Vardy & Mandzukic.
I really hoped Lukaku would become a better player at United. In the way that Andy Cole’s all round game improved, I hoped Lukaku would develop and thrive. I think he has actually regressed unfortunately.
Just like Pogba and Martial you can't play him if you want your team to play an aggressive pressing style. His inability to put in the required work ethic not only has his team playing with 9.5 outfield players but also sabourtages his teammates who do work hard out of possession (Rashford, Lingard, Herrera, McT, Fred, Shaw etc).
Add into the equation the fact that he's not even close to those two technically and you can see why people see a first XI without him.
Likewise you look at City, Liverpool, Spurs and even Arsenal and it's clear he'd be nowhere near their first eleven and doesn't have the potential to be either.
I think we can probably only play with one of these kind of players and that would always be Pogba or Martial over Lukaku.
Add into the equation the fact that he's not even close to those two technically and you can see why people see a first XI without him.
Likewise you look at City, Liverpool, Spurs and even Arsenal and it's clear he'd be nowhere near their first eleven and doesn't have the potential to be either.
I think we can probably only play with one of these kind of players and that would always be Pogba or Martial over Lukaku.
Vardy is not a better option than Lukaku. Mandzukic is a good player but not very young. We needed someone younger after Rooney and RVP were done here.
Okay but that doesn't matter, he has taken Lukaku's place, not Martial's. I'm asking what has he done to leap over him? Lukaku actually has a higher scoring rate than him this season too.
Statistics will tell you otherwise. His record against the top 6 is a fluke, I guess?
Leading a team to a PL title was aswell?
I agree but Ole has his preference I guess. I think they should both be playing up top together at the moment.
Take into account how Leicester would set up against a top 6 side and the strengths of Vardy and you have your answer.