He's sat in one of those Eyes Wide Shut parties right now.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
I wanna participate as well in those parties, where can I subscribe?
This is a depressing read. Can you imagine how annoying these prats must be if you’re trying to get an education?
Jesus, just expel them. Cisheteropatriarchy is a hell of a compound word.
Isn’t it? How annoyed would they get if you kept pronouncing the ‘sh’ sound?
Would do it just spite them. Must admit, I had to reread the word three times before I figured it out.
That sounds like a horrible place to go to. If I was a student paying to get an education there, I would be pissed that they had not simply been expelled for disrupting classes
Wow that sounds like South Park-style parody. I wonder how long you could converse with one of these protesters until you a. got accused of being racist/sexist/transphobic/cis or b. ripped your ears off and poured bleach in your eyes so you didn't have to bear witness to them anymore.
It just goes to show that if you look hard enough you can be offended by anything.
I work in humanities (fortunately on this side of the Atlantic where things seem a bit more sane), and this kind of thing makes me not only question if I want to keep doing this but also if I'd encourage my kids to take it up. This is not preparation for going out into the real world, it's the creation of a fantasy world where you can hide from or suppress everything and anything that can potentially upset you.
Portland is renowned for being hipster central
isn't it? That kind of behaviour from students there isn't particularly surprising, they sound like absolute twats.
isn't it? That kind of behaviour from students there isn't particularly surprising, they sound like absolute twats.
Has it crossed the pond at all yet?
I haven't encountered anything so extreme. There has certainly been a movement, sometimes accompanied by protests, towards globalising the scope of subjects, which is something I support and am involved in (not for its own sake but because I believe it is the most valuable approach to take). It has at times become a source of tension but my position is that as long as it encourages us to approach these subjects in an broader alternative way then it can only be a positive thing.
Take for example a historical figure like Herodotus - apparently these students have attempted to shut down the teaching of Herodotus due to him being a 'white' 'European' figure. Now there's no doubt the Ancient Greek legacy has in the past and present been appropriated or utilised for Eurocentric purposes, but the way to respond is not by suppressing the teaching of Herodotus altogether but by recasting him in his correct historical context, which is as a global historian working in an environment in which categories such as 'white' and 'European' simply didn't apply, at least not in the way they do today. The teaching of Herodotus actually presents an excellent opportunity to learn about an ancient world much more inter-connected than many would imagine, a world where racial categories had very different implications for how human society was understood. You can see how there is potentially much of value to be learned through such an approach, but these types in Portland would rather give up that opportunity.
I sometimes think the whole criticising PC aspect is often exaggerated. Here however is an example where it is completely ridiculous.
These kids are really infuriating because there is genuine anti-black things going on in the country through voter suppression rights, but that gets swept under the rug because some kid used a bit of slang.
These kids are really infuriating because there is genuine anti-black things going on in the country through voter suppression rights, but that gets swept under the rug because some kid used a bit of slang.
Aren't they effectively protesting their own education? We'll end up with many many people who have no skills except "professional activism". Their education is already rather useless but that takes it to a new level. I am sure future employers are stoked to hire professionals crybabies.
If you banish the teachings of pre-1900 white historians and philosophers, would you actually be left with much?
Thinking about it, my history and politics degrees where very white-focused, but tbf Stuart England, the French Revolution and the Cold War kinda were.
Aren't they effectively protesting their own education? We'll end up with many many people who have no skills except "professional activism". Their education is already rather useless but that takes it to a new level. I am sure future employers are stoked to hire professionals crybabies.
I always wonder about this. It's a hot topic in Bristol where a lot of historical wealth was built on the tobacco trade. There's been some arguments about the naming of certain buildings such as the Wills Memorial Building which is named in honour of the guy who founded the University, who made vast riches from the tobacco trade but donated huge amounts to local causes.
People want to strip the name from the building but don't seem to have a problem benefitting from a world class education that's only possible due to this money in the first place. I guess I just feel like teaching the history of these people and using it as an opportunity to learn rather than whitewashing them from the University altogether would be more productive.
Can someone clear up a bit of confusion I have about this LGBTQ business.
The LGBT bit I understand completely. Each represents a different and very distinct thing that I understand.
My confusion arises around the Q. Queer. So, what exactly is it to be queer, as opposed to gay?
Can you give me an example of a state of being that would put you in the Q category, where you would not fit into any of the other categories?
Put another way, if someone was straight and identified as the same gender they were actually born as - i.e. not lesbian, gay, bi or trans - but they were queer, what would that entail?
The LGBT bit I understand completely. Each represents a different and very distinct thing that I understand.
My confusion arises around the Q. Queer. So, what exactly is it to be queer, as opposed to gay?
Can you give me an example of a state of being that would put you in the Q category, where you would not fit into any of the other categories?
Put another way, if someone was straight and identified as the same gender they were actually born as - i.e. not lesbian, gay, bi or trans - but they were queer, what would that entail?
Globalising topics such as these doesn't mean writing in non-white history where there is none (although the Cold War? Come on that affected way more non-white people than it did whites). It means taking a step back and looking at history from beyond the confines of the nation-state or Europe to see how they connect to the rest of the world.
Take for example the Irish War of Independence 1919-1921. More traditional approaches would focus almost exclusively on events on our two islands, looking at the impact of British policies and the rise and impact of nationalism locally. Some of the more ambitious studies may consider the impact of the Irish diaspora in places like America and Australia.
A global approach would consider the rise of Irish and Ulster nationalism in relation to nationalism across the globe. It would look across the British Empire and beyond to see what other people thought of events in Ireland, how it impacted upon them, and how their thought and actions impacted upon Ireland. It would note, for example, that at the very same time the war in Ireland was raging, the British Empire also faced uprisings or protests in Egypt, Palestine, Iraq and India. So it would look for the connections between these events (no good historian would assume it all to be a coincidence), how they impacted on each other and try to conclude with an idea of what all this means for the Irish war and the place of Ireland in the world in general.
I think the Q stands for Questioning, so those folk who are ensure which side of the fence they are on. I presume it is for people who are just curious or not fully sure.
That would actually make a lot more sense. But if you Google it, pretty much every reference has it down as queer, so pretty sure it is that.
I'm not an expert to be fair but I got it from wikipedia thought that also includes Queer as well - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questioning_(sexuality_and_gender)
The student quoted in Pogue's link identified as queer. Is it some sub-culture within the gay community, maybe out and loud and proud, or even militant?
I can't keep pace with these labels.
Im banking on someone on here actually knowing and resolving this question for me once and for all.
Although not knowing hasnt actually been much of a problem for me thus far in my day to day life.
Isn't queer a bit of a shitty name for, well whatever it apparently refers to? Even if they're embracing it in a kind of 'own it' way, it's still offensive isn't it?
If you look at the main protagonists of the Cold War, the leaders were all white, barring Mao I guess. Appreciate it spanned multiple countries and continents though.
Your global approac sounds interesting and far more involving than the standard teaching I had, focusing on specific events, generally within a narrow timeframe.
@DiseaseOfTheAge any ideas on this one?
It certainly was in the playgrounds of the 1980s.
It's a relatively new field of history. It obviously has some potential pitfalls, given that it's rare to find historians with the language skills (or time really) needed to get as in depth to each area as is ideally needed. But a valuable global comparative aspect can normally be achieved with secondary reading.
A good example of the global approach applied to the Cold War would be this great book - http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/534
Jesus
what a bunch of insufferable twats. Well it was bound to happen with this brand of SJW's though, they have started to devour their own just so they can climb to the peak of the social justice ladder.Yeah, that does sound an interesting take on it and a hell of a lot of work to pull off.
The proxy wars and interventions did take something of a backseat when I learnt it, as the reviewer said. Maybe it was a time thing, given the breadth of years you're covering in a module.
I'm kind of interested in the strange interventions in Nigeria that he omitted now.
To bring this back on-topic, the global approach is to me the obvious way to deal with the problem of Eurocentrism - not wiping out Europe/'whiteness' from the curriculum altogether. Taking the Irish War of Independence example again, imagine how eye-opening it might be for these kids to consider the links that exist between the freedom struggles of a white nation in Western Europe and an Arab nation in the Middle East. It's the kind of approach that would potentially break down all their preconceived ideas about how the world worked not very long ago, and gives the lie to the notion that the history of human relations has been defined by strictly by race.
These days 'queer' is usually short for 'genderqueer' and covers anyone who is non-binary.
Isn't the issue primarily one of time constraints and setting priorities? In school you have very little time, so consequently the education focuses on the basics and the history of the region/nation.
Once you study it's up to yourself to get into whatever tickles your fancy.
History is a bottomless pit of knowledge. It's not racist to have interests in one area and not another.
Once you study it's up to yourself to get into whatever tickles your fancy.
History is a bottomless pit of knowledge. It's not racist to have interests in one area and not another.
Is that bi in historic layman's terms or those who don't identify with a specific gender.
Sorry, I struggle to remember the variations with my memory- didn't Facebook have 40-odd?
You can only really study what's on offer though. I'd say the big national level universities have some responsibility to ensure diverse programs which reflect the global scale of human relations - especially if they go out of their way to attract international students (and the big fees they bring with them).
The final year of my history degree focused on slavery as told from below, or from the point of view of the slaves. It was probably the most interesting part of the entire course.
People who feel they are both genders or neither.
Facebook did, yeah, because there is about ten different words used for each concept. Hence using 'queer' just as a blanket term.
I go to queer nights, in clubs, and it's just like going to a gay bar but with even more cross-dressing and androgyny.