Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

meninred said:
If you evaluate martial on the last five years instead of the last 10 games..the answer is not yet.
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I think you should also ask yourself how many under 23 strikers are ready to start for United in the no.9 role and the answer will be very few. Then when you consider that he clearly suffered under Mourinho and we only have Woodward to thank for vetoing his sale I think we will get a more complete picture of those five years.

He wasn't blameless under Mourinho but I think Jose tried to turn both he and Rashford into players they weren't and blamed them instead of adjusting his expectations and methods.
 
Adisa said:
It's demoralising when I hear the way some once great players speak. Do these guys even watch games? In what way is Martial not a proper 9?
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He is not English i guess. English pundits are desperate to see Kane in big club and winning titles. Not to mention that they still think that no9 must be strong player who is good in the air.

Our former players are so negative as pundits and they are huge hypocrites in many situations.
 
Yeah, I loved Scholes as a player but he's proven to be a bit of a simpleton.

Martial has been better than Kane over the course of this season and is only getting better.
 
Dante said:
What an incredibly stupid post.
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If you're trying to suggest Martial would be treated exactly the same by these pundits if he was English, I got a bridge to sell you.
 
He’s good but he does miss some chances a really top striker wouldn’t. I guess he’s improving just that he seems to have been here for ages and not caught fire yet.
 
Dante said:
Which you bought from David Ike.
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No idea who that is. Listen, if you want to live in this fantasy world where pundits don't have a bias for players of their nationality, that's your problem but don't drag the rest of us in your delusions. It's just a fact, and understand it's not solely an English thing; most of a country's pundits will have a natural bias for their countrymen. We have pundits in France who claim Mbappe is better than Neymar, some even take it further. The fact that you want to dispute it when there's been countless examples of how a guy like Martial and, say Rashford, is treated differently by the English pundits shows a serious lack of awareness on your part, you're not paying attention or the bias just goes right over your head because you have your own share of it. Just imagine Rashford was the one up front and someone else was playing his position, and he had a season like Martial had, are Neville and Scholes still talking about a proper #9?

My guess is no.
 
Offsideagain said:
He’s good but he does miss some chances a really top striker wouldn’t. I guess he’s improving just that he seems to have been here for ages and not caught fire yet.
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All top strikers miss lots of chances though. I have been watching old United matches lately (PL classic matches in the TV) and was actually surprised the amount of goals missed by our top strikers - Andy Cole, Nistelrooy, Rooney.
I would actually say Martial is the most clinical among our current forwards (apart from Greenwood). Martial would be scoring in a lot more in a well settled team creating lots of chances - Liverpool, Man City.
Now that we are much more settled in our first 11, creating much more goal scoring chances, we are seeing him scoring lots more. The only way is up for Tony.
 
AneRu said:
I think you should also ask yourself how many under 23 strikers are ready to start for United in the no.9 role and the answer will be very few. Then when you consider that he clearly suffered under Mourinho and we only have Woodward to thank for vetoing his sale I think we will get a more complete picture of those five years.

He wasn't blameless under Mourinho but I think Jose tried to turn both he and Rashford into players they weren't and blamed them instead of adjusting his expectations and methods.
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If we’d sold Martial and he was playing like this we would be raging.
 
Offsideagain said:
He’s good but he does miss some chances a really top striker wouldn’t. I guess he’s improving just that he seems to have been here for ages and not caught fire yet.
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He's actually been here this season as a Striker and that's what the thread is about.
 
Offsideagain said:
He’s good but he does miss some chances a really top striker wouldn’t. I guess he’s improving just that he seems to have been here for ages and not caught fire yet.
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He actually has one of the best conversion rates in Europe. Guys a lethal finisher. His problem is he doesn’t shoot enough (though that’s slowly improving).
 
Offsideagain said:
He’s good but he does miss some chances a really top striker wouldn’t. I guess he’s improving just that he seems to have been here for ages and not caught fire yet.
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Statistically, he's one of the best finishers in all of Europe. Kane and Aguero miss chances too, there's no top striker that doesn't.

What I'd love for Martial to do to take that next step as a striker is not only scoring more ugly/easy poachers goals, but adding some new finishes to his locker. Aguero is a master of smashing it near post from tight angles into the roof of the net. If Martial could master that it would add so much value to his game.
 
Dante said:
What an incredibly stupid post.
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What an incredibly stupid post if you think otherwise. You think there's no bias in the way criticism and praise is dished out?
Dele Alli has had a clusterfeck of a season but little is said about him.
Rashford has mostly had an average restart buy not much is said about it.
Give your head a wobble if you don't think there is bias on how players are viewed based on their nationality.
 
Offsideagain said:
He’s good but he does miss some chances a really top striker wouldn’t. I guess he’s improving just that he seems to have been here for ages and not caught fire yet.
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Here's a collection of misses from just this season from 'a really top striker' - I doubt you could find that many glaring misses in Martial's whole career, plus factoring that he has one of the highest conversion rates of any striker in Europe, surely you now must realise that you're chatting complete bollocks.
 
MalcolmTucker said:


Here's a collection of misses from just this season from 'a really top striker' - I doubt you could find that many glaring misses in Martial's whole career, plus factoring that he has one of the highest conversion rates of any striker in Europe, surely you now must realise that you're chatting complete bollocks.
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There must be some video of Aguero somewhere too. According to caf experts, Striker No 9 doesn't miss any chance ever.

Martial has improved every aspect of his play ( not shocking also as he just turned 24) and some people just refuse to see that. They keep coming up with new things to complain about.
 
E-mal said:
What an incredibly stupid post if you think otherwise. You think there's no bias in the way criticism and praise is dished out?
Dele Alli has had a clusterfeck of a season but little is said about him.
Rashford has mostly had an average restart buy not much is said about it.
Give your head a wobble if you don't think there is bias on how players are viewed based on their nationality.
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There was nothing negative said about Martial by Scholes. Quite the opposite, in fact. Scholes was full of praise for Martial.
 
Sayros said:
No idea who that is. Listen, if you want to live in this fantasy world where pundits don't have a bias for players of their nationality, that's your problem but don't drag the rest of us in your delusions. It's just a fact, and understand it's not solely an English thing; most of a country's pundits will have a natural bias for their countrymen. We have pundits in France who claim Mbappe is better than Neymar, some even take it further. The fact that you want to dispute it when there's been countless examples of how a guy like Martial and, say Rashford, is treated differently by the English pundits shows a serious lack of awareness on your part, you're not paying attention or the bias just goes right over your head because you have your own share of it. Just imagine Rashford was the one up front and someone else was playing his position, and he had a season like Martial had, are Neville and Scholes still talking about a proper #9?

My guess is no.
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Your guess is based on projections your own Nationalistic prejudices onto other people. Scholes was fulsome in his praise of Martial. Why are you ignoring that?
 
Dante said:


There was nothing negative said about Martial by Scholes. Quite the opposite, in fact. Scholes was full of praise for Martial.
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"Needs to sort himself " is not the same level of criticism.
It will be naive or unfair to suggest that foreign players are not treated differently as regards criticism. You know that, so forget about it.

I remembered when DDG in his early days was been slaughtered while Hart who was by far a worse keeper had a free pass from Neville.
 
Dante said:
Your guess is based on projections your own Nationalistic prejudices onto other people. Scholes was fulsome in his praise of Martial. Why are you ignoring that?
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Cute story.

Because you think I'm isolating one incident whereas I'm talking about years of punditry on Martial and other foreign players not being covered the same way. You have your head in the sand if you can't see or understand how that's very common, I'm at least capable of recognizing it within my country of birth or adoption because it's just human nature for most people.
 
E-mal said:
"Needs to sort himself " is not the same level of criticism.
It will be naive or unfair to suggest that foreign players are not treated differently as regards criticism. You know that, so forget about it.

I remembered when DDG in his early days was been slaughtered while Hart who was by far a worse keeper had a free pass from Neville.
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What about all the times he's praised foreigners and criticised English players? He does it all the time. The fact you concentrate on one but not the other is telling.
 
Sayros said:
Cute story.

Because you think I'm isolating one incident whereas I'm talking about years of punditry on Martial and other foreign players not being covered the same way.
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You've concocted a conspiracy theory around your favourite player, and therefore see everything through a lens of prejudice.
 
Dante said:
Your guess is based on projections your own Nationalistic prejudices onto other people. Scholes was fulsome in his praise of Martial. Why are you ignoring that?
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At this point it isnt outlandish to suggest you share in it if you dont think otherwise?
Football is tribal, on this forum we tend to suggest our players are bwtter or not as worse as others. There is always that biase.
 
Dante said:
You've concocted a conspiracy theory around your favourite player, and therefore see everything through a lens of prejudice.
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Yes, me all on my own, no one else is agreeing on this. And Martial is not my favorite player, but I do like him a lot and still think if he were English, we wouldn't be having this conversation after the season he's had.
 
E-mal said:
At this point it isnt outlandish to suggest you share in it if you dont think otherwise?
Football is tribal, on this forum we tend to suggest our players are bwtter or not as worse as others. There is always that biase.
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So you agree that you're too biased to treat commentators and pundits fairly?
 
Dante said:
What about all the times he's praised foreigners and criticised English players? He does it all the time. The fact you concentrate on one but not the other is telling.
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Whatever you say mate. The truth is there for all to see.
 
Sayros said:
Yes, me all on my own, no one else is agreeing on this. And Martial is not my favorite player, but I do like him a lot and still think if he were English, we wouldn't be having this conversation after the season he's had.
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Literally the only player that received any negative coverage yesterday was Lingard. He's English. Is his nationality the reason for that criticism or is it his performances? Could the same not apply to Martial, but you're just too blinkered to see it?
 
Dante said:
So you agree that you're too biased to treat commentators and pundits fairly?
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I dont give a crap about them, I suggest others dont take their opinion as gospel. At least I hope you dont.
 
Dante said:
Literally the only player that received any negative coverage yesterday was Lingard. He's English. Is his nationality the reason for that criticism or is it his performances? Could the same not apply to Martial, but you're just too blinkered to see it?
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You think of this as very black and white, I'm not saying there's blindness to English players' performances, I'm saying it's a gray area where often times the criticism for a poor performance is not the same or is more highlighted with certain players and less so with local ones. There's a myriad of reasons besides bias for it, but to completely ignore the fact that there's always bias in people is naive at best.
 
Sayros said:
You think of this as very black and white, I'm not saying there's blindness to English players' performances, I'm saying it's a gray area where often times the criticism for a poor performance is not the same or is more highlighted with certain players and less so with local ones. There's a myriad of reasons besides bias for it, but to completely ignore the fact that there's always bias in people is naive at best.
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Which take me back to my earlier post to you.

You're admitting you have your own prejudices. And now you've admitted to projecting them onto others.
 
Dante said:
Which take me back to my earlier post to you.

You're admitting you have your own prejudices. And now you've admitted to projecting them onto others.
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Yes, and you are the epitome of pureness with no bias whatsoever in you. Congratulations on being the perfect human being, you're still very blind if you think the rest of us are as wonderful as you.
 
Dante said:
I'm not the one getting upset about what they're saying. You are.
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Am not upset, why should I be? They are as entitled to their opinion as I am. My point is that others are not as gullible as a few football fans especially on this forum who regurgitate the bias rhetorics.
 
alexthelion said:
It seems to be the default position of many non-English posters, unfortunately.
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That's not fair. It's merely the flipside of what I was arguing against above, and not a position I would agree with at all.

All I will say is that Martial FC have shown they're willing to use any tactic to shut down valid criticism. Sometimes those tactics need to be confronted when they're taken too far.
 
Martial is only getting better and better, so for me it´s a big yes.
 
meninred said:
If you evaluate martial on the last five years instead of the last 10 games..the answer is not yet.
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Lets judge Martial as a striker on what we've seen of him as a rotation winger under a manager who wanted him sold and attempted to replace him at any given opportunity. That makes sense, much more logical than judging him on his first full season as a striker under a manager who actually starts him and has trust in him. Great post!
 
Dante said:
You've concocted a conspiracy theory around your favourite player, and therefore see everything through a lens of prejudice.
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He has a point though and you are fighting a lost battle here. Scholes has given Martial shit for years now.
 
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