Harvard University to have black only graduation ceremony.

[2 man midfield]

Indeed. Likely many of the same people who get unduly worked up by stories of private members men's clubs being forced to include women. It's odd how the evils of political correctness can be at fault for both unfair inclusivity and unfair exclusivity. Almost as if it depends entirely on how it affects angry white men.

I agree that the optics of this aren't particularly great, but there's obviously no equitable comparison with Jim Crow era segregation. The whole point of the Civil Rights movement (and equal rights in general) wasn't to force everyone to do everything together all the time. It was about having the right to choose for themselves, rather than have it decided for them. Black people weren't excluded from white schools because us whiteys were having a harmless private celebration of our culture. They were excluded because we didn't like them, and didn't want them having nice things. This isn't remotely similar, and I'm sure that if a white guy made enough of a fuss about attending, they'd probably let him. Because the intent is benign, not malicious. But then there's no reason for a white guy to want to attend this, outside of some pathetic mock outrage about not being able to.

And I'm sure those same people would argue that words things like half-caste, coloured, mulatto, Paki etc are fine as long as there's no ill intent behind it. Yet paradoxically insist on seeing this entirely through a contextless lense, where the intent is irrelevant.

Tangentially, I'm also becoming increasingly tired of how student activity is being used as an example of this generation's unique sensitivity, or intolerance, as if contrary, outspoken student activism is something brand new and shocking, and not something that's been widely accepted, expected and mocked for over half a century, and embodied most notoriously by the very Boomer generation now bemoaning it.

Exactly.

 

[Penna]

If the graduating black students feel this is something important to do, it's up to them. There's no point saying "what if the white students did this shock horror". That's actually been the status quo for generations, because clever black kids didn't get much of a chance to walk the hallowed halls of the Ivy League schools.

In years to come, hopefully it'll be a non-issue.

 

[Tarrou]

These things always get to me, or moreover, people's reactions to it get to me. So I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating and upsetting it must be as a black person if you hear some random twonk droning on and on about reverse racism. In an ideal world we wouldn't need stuff like this, but it's not an ideal world because we spent the last few hundred years fecking everything up.

 

[Kostur]

While I couldn't care less, if a white person/non-black person came there, will he be asked to leave or he can simply celebrate it too?

No idea how it works at other universities so pardon my ignorance.

 

[afrocentricity]

See no problem with it at all.

Feel free to be offended by this incredibly benign celebration instead of thinking about the reasons for said celebration. Which have been highlighted in the thread, but largely ignored.

 

[villain]

Is this how every black person in a white space feel? Eye opener for me in that case. For the best part of three years, I'm Indian (like in Asian Indian) and was a part of an analytics team entirely made up of Chinese folks settled in US as US citizens and I never felt anxious or alone.

Not necessarily each individual black person, but you will see similarities amongst our experiences regardless of what part of the diaspora you're from. @adexkola & @Sammyjunn have already cosigned this - despite (I think) all of us being different. I'm a black African immigrant, Adexkola is Black American I think, and i'm not sure what sammyjunn is.
And your example is quite individualistic, especially as you were part of a team comprised of other people of colour. Plus in the US the complexity of the history of racism towards Asian Indians or Chinese people, is completely different to that of black people.

Also anxious or alone is just me trying to quantify the feeling that I personally feel, others may feel intimidated, suffocated, motivated etc and of course there will be some who don't feel anything at all. My brother for example is more comfortable in such spaces than I am, and actually in some incidents says things that indicate self-hatred. Despite him and I obviously having the exact same background, upbringing, culture etc.
We're all different, we all feel and experience things differently.

How is redcafe a white space? It's a football forum where we all have one thing in common which is we support United. One of the great things about an "anonymous" forum like this is who you are does not matter, only your ideas/comments does.

Also, what makes a white space so exhausting? I am not trying to rile you up here, i just want to understand. We have discussed before and you seem like a reasonable and intelligent person, so if you could enlighten me on this, please.

Lastly, i don't have any issue with the black students having their own ceremony, it's rather the signal it sends. It's not about excluding white people, it's about them excluding themselves. "Space" or not, i firmly believe that dividing people based on racial categories is a step in the wrong direction, no matter how innocent it may seem.

I said this thread was exhausting, not redcafe - if the whole site was, I wouldn't log on. But there are exhausting threads which I purposely avoid.

I understand you're not trying to rile me up, but I think my answer will get misinterpreted and quoted many times, and I'm not trying to spend my saturday talking about this, so I will IM you.

While I couldn't care less, if a white person/non-black person came there, will he be asked to leave or he can simply celebrate it too?

No idea how it works at other universities so pardon my ignorance.

Everybody of any race is welcome to come and celebrate with their friends/families/loved ones etc.

 

[Synco]

Indeed. Likely many of the same people who get unduly worked up by stories of private members men's clubs being forced to include women. It's odd how the evils of political correctness can be at fault for both unfair inclusivity and unfair exclusivity. Almost as if it depends entirely on how it affects angry white men.

I agree that the optics of this aren't particularly great, but there's obviously no equitable comparison with Jim Crow era segregation. The whole point of the Civil Rights movement (and equal rights in general) wasn't to force everyone to do everything together all the time. It was about having the right to choose for themselves, rather than have it decided for them. Black people weren't excluded from white schools because us whiteys were having a harmless private celebration of our culture. They were excluded because we didn't like them, and didn't want them having nice things. This isn't remotely similar, and I'm sure that if a white guy made enough of a fuss about attending, they'd probably let him. Because the intent is benign, not malicious. But then there's no reason for a white guy to want to attend this, outside of some pathetic mock outrage about not being able to.

And I'm sure those same people would argue that words things like half-caste, coloured, mulatto, Paki etc are fine as long as there's no ill intent behind it. Yet paradoxically insist on seeing this entirely through a contextless lense, where the intent is irrelevant.

Tangentially, I'm also becoming increasingly tired of how student activity is being used as an example of this generation's unique sensitivity, or intolerance, as if contrary, outspoken student activism is something brand new and shocking, and not something that's been widely accepted, expected and mocked for over half a century, and embodied most notoriously by the very Boomer generation now bemoaning it.

True. What's also odd is the swing from not wanting to let minorities in at all to slating them for 'not wanting to properly integrate' into a now oh so tolerant society, with only a minimal timeframe of (often unwanted) liberalization in between. All of that while the first variant hasn't disappeared by any means, of course.

That said, there is something problematic about identity politics, and the coercion to have an 'identity' instead of just being allowed to be an individual. But that problem doesn't originate from self-confident minorities' behaviour (as some seem to think), but from a notoriously divided society in general.

Btw, pleasantly surprised by how this thread went, I didn't really expect that when I saw the title.

 

[Kostur]

Everybody of any race is welcome to come and celebrate with their friends/families/loved ones etc.

Oh, cheers, sounds pretty reasonable, no idea why would anybody get outraged about it. I'd love to attend such thing myself.

 

[VorZakone]

I can't get bothered about this. Let them have fun.

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

Pretty much the same experience I had at university level, up until that point I was the only black person in my class throughout my entire formal education.

I personally didn't realise how exhausting it is to be black in a white space, until I had the experience of being with other black people at university for 3 years, then having to go back to being by myself again in the workplace.

The best way I can describe it is having constant anxiety, and just feeling alone at the same time. Sure, there are periods where its not as bad, but you don't ever really feel as comfortable, but thats my experience.

I in no way want to disqualify how you feel or your story but you may be surprised how many people in general feel exactly like that.

As for the general topic of the thread, I don't really see it as anything to get worked up about, it's a sad indictment on society maybe but that's where we are at the moment, they're not excluding anyone and they're taking part in the full ceremony too so it really shouldn't be a problem.

That being said, graduation ceremonies are just pointless parades of self aggrandising masturbation anyway.

 

[2 man midfield]

I in no way want to disqualify how you feel or your story but you may be surprised how many people in general feel exactly like that.

As for the general topic of the thread, I don't really see it as anything to get worked up about, it's a sad indictment on society maybe but that's where we are at the moment, they're not excluding anyone and they're taking part in the full ceremony too so it really shouldn't be a problem.

That being said, graduation ceremonies are just pointless parades of self aggrandising masturbation anyway.

Maybe for whites, but when you've been denied the right to even set foot in a university it can be a pretty big deal.

I wouldn't have bothered with mine if my mum wasn't so keen to go. I took the whole thing for granted, but I can imagine the elder relatives of black students who lived through a lot of that shit will feel even more strongly about it.

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

Maybe for whites, but when you've been denied the right to even set foot in a university it can be a pretty big deal.

I wouldn't have bothered with mine if my mum wasn't so keen to go. I took the whole thing for granted, but I can imagine the elder relatives of black students who lived through a lot of that shit will feel even more strongly about it.

People in my family didn't go on to higher education before my generation, economic and social restrictions meant it wasn't a viable route for people like us.

I understand the context and I'm not saying it isn't a big deal for people previously excluded from access to higher education to graduate, I still don't see the need for a ceremony though.

 

[Kag]

I'm struggling to see the point - cue somebody quoting this to tell me the reason for this is because I'm not infact black. But, anyway, I'll try to expand as best as I can.

I don't think it's in any way offensive, or even necessarily segregative. I can only assume that many black people at universities in the US, and elsewhere, come together to form their own community. Similar backgrounds, similar stories, maybe even similar experiences of prejudice and discrimination.

With that said, university is a wider community. You take a degree, get that degree, and attend a really shitty event to receive it. That's it, ultimately. The ceremony is to celebrate the success of everybody that has been awarded with that bit of paper. So, why not attend that? My outlook is likely very simple, albeit purposely. The way I see, whether you're white, black, male, female, trans or disabled, they're equal when on that podium. I wouldn't want to see that celebrated in any other way.

Plus, whatever and whoever you are, you're still going to look like a giant penis on the day. There's no segregating that.

 

[2 man midfield]

People in my family didn't go on to higher education before my generation, economic and social restrictions meant it wasn't a viable route for people like us.

I understand the context and I'm not saying it isn't a big deal for people previously excluded from access to higher education to graduate, I still don't see the need for a ceremony though.

Well this is what I questioned in my OP. I didn't really see how celebrating black history meant the need for a totally separate ceremony. I'm pointing my lack of understanding at the fact it's specifically graduation they've pinpointed. I'm not some white guy telling them what they can and can't do either, it's just genuine puzzlement really. Black students and their families have done, do and will continue to attend mixed graduations, so it's not like they're missing out on the pride I described in my previous post.

 

[Cloud7]

I don't see the big deal in them funding and organizing their own event. The headline is very misleading though, it gives off the impression that its the University organizing and having this for the students, which you would have a point in saying that that may be encouraging segregation. If they want to have their own even then by all means they should go ahead, this is no different to students of a particular religion organizing their own event, it just happens to be people of a specific skin tone.

 

[Jippy]

No because a group of white people doing something isn't politicised. Yet a group of people of colour doing something means they are descending into reverse racism, it's so tiring.

It's an interesting phenomena, when you quite accurately put it like that.
I guess you have well-meaning people, who perhaps lack context or empathy, and feel it's sad that people still need these events in this day and age and/or worry it will increase segregation.
But you get others all too happy to be outraged, while conveniently airbrushing history.
And then racists jumping on the bandwagon.
Social only seems to inflame the situation when these stories emerge.

It doesn't need to be a charged subject at all. I understand someone asking, "hey, why do some black people feel the need to have a African themed graduation?" Perfectly valid question.

I wish I could find a good video of such a themed graduation. You have the graduation robes, but with some people wearing Kente themed sashes. You have speeches from various people thanking a close knit community for being a home away from home. You have a speaker urging graduates to remember to give back to their underserved communities, and maybe mentor a kid, or volunteer at an urban school. You have everyone singing "Lift Every Voice and Sing". Swag Surfing. Styling down the aisle. Complete with all the little things that make black culture awesome... Stuffed into a graduation ceremony. And that is all done against the backdrop of a terrible reality that is modern race relations in America, where until recently, there were more black men in prison than in college. Where, depending on where you grew up, just making it to college, instead of ending up dead from guns or drugs was a miracle. Where a degree won't protect you from police brutality. It's a celebration, but also a somber realization of the distance left in front of us.

I wish people took time to understand the context of these events, instead of writing them off as "oh that's discriminatory".

The ceremony sounds far more fun than the po-faced ones I went to.

The latter part of your post is a depressing read though.I'm sure a lot of white people feel that now we have legal equality, all is fine and dandy so any minorities should 'pipe down, what more do they want?'

I think in England it's maybe hard to grasp how poisonus race relations still can be in the US.