Maguire is top drawer, not 70 mil but very, very good. Great in the air and very good on the ball, needs a defensively responsible partner.
Harry Maguire
- Thread starter BlueCelery
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Not winding you up - but genuinely why the hell would they even think about it . These gaming methods which eventually make us think terrible swap deals are definitely possible, needs to stop.
Leicester aren't short of any funds/players, have a pretty decent scouting and sit nicely in top 8. The only way this is happening is if we offer 50-60m . They already have his replacement ready and I don't think they could be bullied to any talks.
I agree,they played hardball with Mahrez and I can't see them being sold a pup on this one.
Do they really have his replacement though?
Morgan is 34, Evans 30, they have young Caglar Soyunucu but he's got a long way to go before he would be on the same level. And he probably wont ever be on the same level in the air
I don’t think he worths what leicester is going to ask for him. He is worldclass in the air, which is where we are the weakest, but he’s average on evertything else.
He would be a great complementary but not the backbone of a world class defence.
Right now I think, for 50-60 million, there are better options.
He would be a great complementary but not the backbone of a world class defence.
Right now I think, for 50-60 million, there are better options.
Like who though? I agree he'd cost way too much but there isn't any actual top drawer CB available.
The thing about CBs is that they come in pairs and a very good one like Maguire could form a solid partnership with one of our current CB's. Look at Ferdinand, he had a good partnership with Blanc, Brown and Silvester and offcourse a great one with Vidic
I agree about a good pairing.
As many have said his best attributes are dominance in the air, and the ability to play from the back.
The two areas I think he is not so great (but not incredibly poor) are pace and perhaps organisation of the back 4.
Who do you think would be a good partner for him in our team?
For me Smalling lacks the ability to play out from the back but can organise a back four and one if the quickest CBs around.
Lindelof seems to growing into an organiser and leader at the back.
Personally I'd say he's not as good defensively as Smalling but is better on the ball.
Who would you like to see him paired with if he did come?
He is a solid defender but I don't think he will be good for us as he is very slow which means that he is not suitable for a high line.
He is the same level as Jones and Smalling. Good solid CB but not top bracket. Why buy players at the same level we already have? We neeed a top class CB and he is not it.
He is better than both of those 2, and is a huge presence in the air. That is something we massively lack at present.
He's massively overrated.
So many people saying he’s overrated, when the reality is he’s a class act. I can understand why people think he’s immobile because he’s huge, but the fact is that has never really been an issue for him. He would easily be the best CB in our squad and I think he would form a formidable partnership alongside Lindelöf.
Get the impression that a lot of posters hated England’s World Cup run and cant wait to downplay any of the main players in that team.
Get the impression that a lot of posters hated England’s World Cup run and cant wait to downplay any of the main players in that team.
The issue I have with Harry is less around his ability and like all these kind of signings, it's how he responds to the weight of expectation of not only playing for Utd, also the fact that people are going to compare this to the Liverpool signing cause will be same money and the fact he's going to be seen as 'the answer'.....
Gimenez from atletico, I think he is younger, better and cheaper.
Other options would be Marquinhos from PSG, Rugani from Juve, Romagnoli from Milan, Akanji from Dortmund, Pavard from Stuttgart...
All of them I think would come cheaper, players in premier league have become way to expensive due to tv contracts, but theres cheaper talent aboard.
If we were talking about bringing a top CB I would say go for it, pay the 60 millions. But in my opinion, Maguire is not and will never be.
He's not going to organize the back 4 which is something all of our CB's lack, they are all Bridesmaid's in the partnership. If we paired him with Bailly then that would cover his lack of pace and mobility while he would cover Bailly's aerial weakness, however it would still be the blind leading the blind. Maguire and Lindelof is way too slow as a partnership, at least one of your CB's needs recovery speed if we are going to play a high line. especially when our starting holding midfielder is also slow as feck.
Yep, decent player but the fees mentioned are hilarious. We have decent everywhere, it’s pointless signing another. Need a top quality one to push us and whoever his partner is up a level.
Him and Smalling would work well I think. Smalling has the pace to cover whilst Maguire can step out. They’d be great defending aerial balls too.
Neither of them have any organizational qualities though, and we need to be moving away from Smalling as a starter, he's a back-up.
Smalling can always be targeted by the opposition as the guy you let have the ball too.
People keep saying this but Swaps have been very frequent past 4-5 years.
Exactly, unlike many on here I don't want us to sell him as there are many games where he's just fine, as basically the O'Shea of the squad, a decent CB that you play on the weekend against weak opposition when you have a big CL game on the Tuesday, that type of squad player, but I think he should be outside the starting partnership from next season, especially if we are to continue how we are setting up where you really need both CB's to be comfortable in possession.
Tbf, I'm probably going off the WC but hasn't he been injured this season?
He missed 5 games.
Maguire is quality and he'd be a massive upgrade from the likes of Bailly, Lindelof and Jones.
I like him. Should have moved on one of our crocs and got him from Hull when he was available at a decent price. Around £75m quid is too much for a guy who is not absolute top class. He is a beast aerially & is a good defender but his general slowness is a bit of a concern for me. Although, if we con someone into buying Bailly and Rojo for £50m-£60m, then why not.
Just for fun I wanted to compare his passing statistics to our central defenders and the great benchmark of this season, Virgil van Dijk. I also decided to add Laporte as he is the player Pep appears to see as the essential ballplaying CB. All numbers is from the Premier League.
I want to start of with some basic information first to put the numbers in to perspective.
- Virgil van Dijk plays 75,4 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 89,8 %. That is 5,5 % above Liverpools team average completion rate (84,3) and 12,4 % of the Liverpools total passes per 90 min.
- Aymeric Laporte plays 89,6 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 92 %. That is 3,2 % above Man City team average completion rate (88,9) and 12,8 % of Man Citys total passes per 90 min.
- Harry Maguire plays 53,2 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 84,4 %. That is 7 % above Leicesters team average completion rate (77,4) and 12,5 % of the Leicesters total passes per 90 min.
- Victor Lindeløf plays 51,2 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 87,8 %. That is 2,4 % above our team average completion rate (85,4 %) and 9,7 % of our total passes per 90 min.
- Chris Smalling plays 40,7 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 86,6 %. That is 1,2 % above our team average completion rate and and 7,7 % of our total passes per 90 min.
The direction and length of their passes might put these numbers into further context (numbers from Squawka).
- Virgil van Dijk plays 11,9 % of his passes forward and 45,4 % of his passes sideways. The passes has an average length of 18,93 meter.
- Aymeric Laporte plays 12,6 % of his passes forward and 39,14 % of his passes sideways. The passes have an average length of 17,73 meter.
- Harry Maguire plays 16,05 % of his passes forward and 31,2 % of his passes sideways. The passes have an average length of 21,2 meter.
- Victor Lindeløf plays 10,2 % of his passes forward and 39,72 % of this passes sideways. The passes have an average lenght of 16,68 meter.
- Chris Smalling plays 9,14 % of his passes forward and 35,5 % of his passes sideways. The passes have an average length of 17,82 meter.
In summary, I would argue that Maguires passing stands out. He plays fewer passes per 90 at a lower completion rate and more backwards passes than van Dijk (in %), but you would expect that considering their respective teams and his numbers compared to his team average is really good. Furthermore, they indicate that he might play with a bigger risk than the rest considering the amount of passes moving forward and the length of his passing. It is also supported by the fact that he has more "chances created" than the others (*same as Laporte), despite being in a poor team and playing less minutes.
Furthermore, I do think the numbers tells us that we need a centre back that can be more involved on the ball. I am aware that the numbers of our players suffer from having a coach who litteraly brag about how he used to tell his defenders how poor they are on the ball, but I do think we need a defender that can improve our build up. I feel certain that Maguire would. I also feel certain that he would give us aerial presence (something we also need). He also prefers to play on the left side which is great. I'm not sure if he is agile enough to play in a high line. Not because I dont think he is agile, but because I literally do not know. My general impression is that he would thrive in a more aggressive and attacking setup than Leicesters, but I note that many in here voice concern about his pace and mobility. (I do not see it.)
I looked briefly at the numbers of Koulibaly, Milenkovic and Eder Militao, and Militao probably stands out. Koulibaly numbers was a bit weird. A huge percentage of his passes was backwards. Very few forward. Maybe his numbers trick me a bit, but I do think that the numbers might indicate that it would be a huge risk buying a player from a team with that different style from our own. Considering his price tag I would be very surprised if we took that risk.
*I'm not sure how a forward pass is defined at Squawka, but I would assume (also supported by the numbers) that a sideway pass to a team mate two meter further up the pitch is not considered a forward pass.
I want to start of with some basic information first to put the numbers in to perspective.
- Virgil van Dijk plays 75,4 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 89,8 %. That is 5,5 % above Liverpools team average completion rate (84,3) and 12,4 % of the Liverpools total passes per 90 min.
- Aymeric Laporte plays 89,6 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 92 %. That is 3,2 % above Man City team average completion rate (88,9) and 12,8 % of Man Citys total passes per 90 min.
- Harry Maguire plays 53,2 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 84,4 %. That is 7 % above Leicesters team average completion rate (77,4) and 12,5 % of the Leicesters total passes per 90 min.
- Victor Lindeløf plays 51,2 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 87,8 %. That is 2,4 % above our team average completion rate (85,4 %) and 9,7 % of our total passes per 90 min.
- Chris Smalling plays 40,7 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 86,6 %. That is 1,2 % above our team average completion rate and and 7,7 % of our total passes per 90 min.
The direction and length of their passes might put these numbers into further context (numbers from Squawka).
- Virgil van Dijk plays 11,9 % of his passes forward and 45,4 % of his passes sideways. The passes has an average length of 18,93 meter.
- Aymeric Laporte plays 12,6 % of his passes forward and 39,14 % of his passes sideways. The passes have an average length of 17,73 meter.
- Harry Maguire plays 16,05 % of his passes forward and 31,2 % of his passes sideways. The passes have an average length of 21,2 meter.
- Victor Lindeløf plays 10,2 % of his passes forward and 39,72 % of this passes sideways. The passes have an average lenght of 16,68 meter.
- Chris Smalling plays 9,14 % of his passes forward and 35,5 % of his passes sideways. The passes have an average length of 17,82 meter.
In summary, I would argue that Maguires passing stands out. He plays fewer passes per 90 at a lower completion rate and more backwards passes than van Dijk (in %), but you would expect that considering their respective teams and his numbers compared to his team average is really good. Furthermore, they indicate that he might play with a bigger risk than the rest considering the amount of passes moving forward and the length of his passing. It is also supported by the fact that he has more "chances created" than the others (*same as Laporte), despite being in a poor team and playing less minutes.
Furthermore, I do think the numbers tells us that we need a centre back that can be more involved on the ball. I am aware that the numbers of our players suffer from having a coach who litteraly brag about how he used to tell his defenders how poor they are on the ball, but I do think we need a defender that can improve our build up. I feel certain that Maguire would. I also feel certain that he would give us aerial presence (something we also need). He also prefers to play on the left side which is great. I'm not sure if he is agile enough to play in a high line. Not because I dont think he is agile, but because I literally do not know. My general impression is that he would thrive in a more aggressive and attacking setup than Leicesters, but I note that many in here voice concern about his pace and mobility. (I do not see it.)
I looked briefly at the numbers of Koulibaly, Milenkovic and Eder Militao, and Militao probably stands out. Koulibaly numbers was a bit weird. A huge percentage of his passes was backwards. Very few forward. Maybe his numbers trick me a bit, but I do think that the numbers might indicate that it would be a huge risk buying a player from a team with that different style from our own. Considering his price tag I would be very surprised if we took that risk.
*I'm not sure how a forward pass is defined at Squawka, but I would assume (also supported by the numbers) that a sideway pass to a team mate two meter further up the pitch is not considered a forward pass.
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I would love him at United. He is very confident, a natural player, inspirational, great on the ball, trusted, consistent and a damn good player.
Think we would need to offload a couple.
Be a great statement of intent for the current players, genuine competition in the squad and a different dynamic.
Think we would need to offload a couple.
Be a great statement of intent for the current players, genuine competition in the squad and a different dynamic.
- John Stones plays 87,5 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 93,5 %. That is 4,7 % above Man City team average completion rate (88,9) and 12,5 % of Man Citys total passes per 90 min.
- John Stones plays 19,2 % (!!!) of his passes forward and 41,8 % of his passes sideways. The passes have an average length of 17,06 meter.
- Toby plays 72 passes per 90 min at a completion rate of 89,2 %. That is 6,1 % above Spurs team average completion rate (83,1) and 13,05 % Spurs total passes per 90 min.
- Toby plays 16,08 % of his passes forward and 40,36 % of his passes sideways. The passes have an average length of 20,68 meter.
So basically Stones is the most progressive passer of the bunch. Toby maybe the most "essential" passer for his team. Probably as expected. Biggest surprise, I would assume, might be how good Maguire is compared to them. Do people underestimate him due to him being less elegant or looking a bit clumsy? Or is he, in fact, a bit slower and more clumsy on the ball?
He is a couple of years younger than van Dijk and Toby. One year older than Stones, Lindeløf and Laporte. Will probably not develop much, but might have "hidden" potential in a better team. This could be his disadvantage at the moment.
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Long passing success rate from players that attempt 10+ long passes per 90 minutes avg
Maguire 65% from 10.9 long passes attempted per 90
Luiz 62% from 11.2 long passes attempted per 90
Alderweireld 61% from 12.7 passes attempted per 90
Notable centre backs that make less than 10 long passes per 90min avg but still have relatively high pass completion rates.
Stones 78% from 7.2 long passes attempted per 90
Kompany 65% from 7.2 long passes attempted per 90
Laporte 65% from 8.6 long passes attempted per 90
VVD 64% from 8.6 long passes attempted per 90
I haven't included notable centre backs that achieve less than 60%, Lindelof and Vertonghan both achieve less than 50% success rate.
Overall pass completion rates.
Stones 93.5% (1st in league)
Kompany 93.2% (only 6 starts)
Laporte 92% (2nd in league)
VVD 89.8% (12th in league)
Toby 89.2% (15th in league)
Luiz 88.6% (19th in league)
Maguire 84.4% (65th in league)
@andersj
Stones is even more impressive when you consider his long pass completion rate at 78%, significantly better than any other CB on the list.
Maguire 65% from 10.9 long passes attempted per 90
Luiz 62% from 11.2 long passes attempted per 90
Alderweireld 61% from 12.7 passes attempted per 90
Notable centre backs that make less than 10 long passes per 90min avg but still have relatively high pass completion rates.
Stones 78% from 7.2 long passes attempted per 90
Kompany 65% from 7.2 long passes attempted per 90
Laporte 65% from 8.6 long passes attempted per 90
VVD 64% from 8.6 long passes attempted per 90
I haven't included notable centre backs that achieve less than 60%, Lindelof and Vertonghan both achieve less than 50% success rate.
Overall pass completion rates.
Stones 93.5% (1st in league)
Kompany 93.2% (only 6 starts)
Laporte 92% (2nd in league)
VVD 89.8% (12th in league)
Toby 89.2% (15th in league)
Luiz 88.6% (19th in league)
Maguire 84.4% (65th in league)
@andersj
Stones is even more impressive when you consider his long pass completion rate at 78%, significantly better than any other CB on the list.
Yes, that is great. And he is a lot better than Laporte and Kompany too. Imply that it is not related to system.
He'd be wonderful for us but why spend 70 million on him when we can spend 40 million on a player with a higher ceiling and 4 years younger in Nikola Milenkovic?
Or if Toby is available in the summer for 25 million and we can get him then that's also far better business
Or if Toby is available in the summer for 25 million and we can get him then that's also far better business
Maguire is 4 years younger than Toby. So if Toby is valued at 25 mill that will means he will cost 6,25 mill a year if value equals 0 at 34. That equal 50 mill for Maguire. But I would argue that the value a player has from 26-30 is significantly higher than from 30-34.
Furthermore, Toby might expect a high sign-on and higher wage. In total, the difference is not that big. I also like that Maguire is dominant in the air.
Because that would be the logical and clever thing to do, that is not how we do transfers.
I'm all for Koulibaly for 20 million more than Maguire to get the real deal but board might prefer to sign a defender with huge potential who is on the cusp of bigger things
I would be too. But Koulibaly is not exactly VvD or Varane, is he?
I cannot believe some of you think he is worth or would cost £50-60m.
You are stuck in 2015.
Market rate for a quality young CB, let alone Prem proven/English, is £75m.
He would be worth that fee easily IMO.
You are stuck in 2015.
Market rate for a quality young CB, let alone Prem proven/English, is £75m.
He would be worth that fee easily IMO.
They still think it’s the era where clubs like Leicester have to sell, we don’t