Harry Maguire involved in incident with police in Greece - conviction nullified by appeal, full retrial pending

[Drainy]

That also applies to everyone else when they have cocked up, including people that mess up and get into fights after drinking.

If everyone who knows Maguire says he is a mellow chap who isn't violent at all and the police themselves testified that he wasn't that drunk then it stands to reason that in order for him to become violent there must be a reason and certainly he wouldn't be attacking police officers if they were identified as police.

For me it's far more likely that the police would mess up and lie about it than a decent person would randomly attack police officers.

 

[Massive Spanner]

If everyone who knows Maguire says he is a mellow chap who isn't violent at all and the police themselves testified that he wasn't that drunk then it stands to reason that in order for him to become violent there must be a reason and certainly he wouldn't be attacking police officers if they were identified as police.

For me it's far more likely that the police would mess up and lie about it than a decent person would randomly attack police officers.

I've seen this mentioned a few times, but like, what do you expect them to say?

"Oh yeah 'arry loves a good fight, he's a mad cnut, loves to thump boys so he does".

 

[Rams]

I think that its one hell of a storm in a teacup. I believe that Maguire got involved in a brawl with some local people, the police came in, the locals being locals knew when to let things go so they don't
get arrested something Maguire and his mates couldn't possibly know and he got arrested. Once at the police station he tried to make all of this go away by offering money and in doing so he made things worse

Having visited countries where the police are hardly spectacular, the best way to approach these people is to show a great deal of respect. Just say sorry, be cooperative to the ridiculous and make them feel confident with you around. These people are overworked and underpaid. They don't want to fill piles upon piles of paper to keep you there. If they feel that you're a good lad they might be persuaded to let you go. However if you threat them like some sort of dirty cops (even though some might be just that) especially at a police station with plenty of witnesses then they will panic and throw the book at you.

Factor in the fact that the police and locals in general probably have their hands full with unruly Brits during the summer, then you’re probably not far off the mark. Although all this is all speculation. Most important thing is that people on here shouldn’t prejudice Greece as some kind of backward banana state.

 

[Adam-Utd]

All part of the same event. Doesn't sound like the best legal representation. Then again such a rush to justice also sounds like a kangaroo court.

Yep it seems like they'd decided he was guilty no matter what happened.

No actual evidence of assault apart from a testimony from 2 officers, and 1 of them apparently falling over and getting injured.

Oh and the "multiple bribes" that yet again have no proof, only their word against his.

Amazing how other countries can find a guilty verdict with no evidence, this would have been kicked out in England easily.

 

[Rams]

Of course they do, but usually you have witnesses for the defence as well, not just some Greek barrister.

Not if its to speed up prosecution due to the enormous amounts of court cases of drunken Brits getting in to trouble, as is the case in Amsterdam. Do you have any idea how much it costs to detain and prosecute people?

 

[Drainy]

I've seen this mentioned a few times, but like, what do you expect them to say?

"Oh yeah 'arry loves a good fight, he's a mad cnut, loves to thump boys so he does".

Or people who have had bad experiences with him would be coming forward. You know like other public figures who are accused of crimes.

 

[sammsky1]

Radio 4 just interviewed the prosecuting lawyer and he confirmed that Maquires team didn't even mention the stabbing incident with his sister as a defense. He confirmed it was irrelevant to the assault charge and that the police suffered physical injuries. In Greek law, and probably British Law, retaliating to a previous event is not admissible.
The general consensus from the British legal advisers was that the case was strangely rushed through. Maquires team had asked for more time to put forward their defense after the prosecuting team had come come up with late evidence consisting of verbal accounts by the police. These accounts were taken as being true by the judge and he was found guilty.

The appeal will boil down to the judge deciding if he believes Maguires or the Police's account. No points for guessing who wins that one.

This is key. Am not sure why everyone keeps going on about his sister’s alleged misfortune. It has nothing, zero, nada to do with the charges that he faces. No judge will even take them into account as altering his emotional state.

if the Maguires feel like injustice was done against their sister, that’s a separate case.

 

[Wibble]

Genuine question, because I haven't really followed this too closely. What is the evidence that this actually occured?

This sounds like the events from Maquire's perspective but it doesn't sound like evidence was really required.

Judge: What happened?
Prosecutor: They attacked the police and offered them a bribe.
Defense lawyer: They didn't ......
Judge: Convicted. 21 months suspended sentence. Next.

 

[JPRouve]

If everyone who knows Maguire says he is a mellow chap who isn't violent at all and the police themselves testified that he wasn't that drunk then it stands to reason that in order for him to become violent there must be a reason and certainly he wouldn't be attacking police officers if they were identified as police.

For me it's far more likely that the police would mess up and lie about it than a decent person would randomly attack police officers.

Have you often heard people say in that type of situations that their friend is violent and is definitely capable of doing something like that? Personally, I don''t know, I don't know the context of the alleged altercation, I don't know the police officers either and therefore I won't go out of my way to claim that one side is more honest than the other.

And it could easily be the first time that he does something like that due to a particular context.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not if its to speed up prosecution due to the enormous amounts of court cases of drunken Brits getting in to trouble, as is the case in Amsterdam. Do you have any idea how much it costs to detain and prosecute people?

This isn't just a case of somebody being the worse the wear for drink. It was supposedly more serious than that.

 

[duffer]

Of course they do, but usually you have witnesses for the defence as well, not just some Greek barrister.

That's true. Why was Maguire back in England at the time of the trial?

 

[krautrøck]

This sounds like the events from Maquire's perspective but it doesn't sound like evidence was really required.

Judge: What happened?
Prosecutor: They attacked the police and offered them a bribe.
Defense lawyer: They didn't ......
Judge: Convicted. 21 months suspended sentence. Next.

My apologies, I worded that poorly. I meant evidence that the thing with the sister actually occured. People here seem convinced it did, so I wondered why.

 

[Wibble]

This is key. Am not sure why everyone keeps going on about his sister’s alleged misfortune. It has nothing, zero, nada to do with the charges that he faces. No judge will even take them into account as altering his emotional state.

if the Maguires feel like injustice was done against their sister, that’s a separate case.

Of course it does. One thing led directly to the other.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That's true. Why was Maguire back in England at the time of the trial?

Don't know. They just let him go home. Maybe lucky. If he was there they might have locked him up.

 

[Rams]

This isn't just a case of somebody being the worse the wear for drink. It was supposedly more serious than that.

He was trialed for misdemeanors. Had it been a more serious case then he’d most likely still be held in custody awaiting trial.

 

[Wibble]

That's true. Why was Maguire back in England at the time of the trial?

I'd take a guess that he had been told it would ll go away with a small fine or acquittal. Either that or he wanted as far away from the Greek police as possible.

 

[sammsky1]

I was literally going to post the same thing.
I think it is true. Maybe not in the exact words as being reported but I do believe Maguire may have said something.
Drunk people say stuff. The Albanian stuff is a bit unbelievable. I also think the Greek courts have probably made this into something far more complex than it needed to be. I mean its a bar scuffle for whatever reason and they happen all the time. If he wasnt famous would there have been a lightning fast court case and conviction for one thing and then the actual speed of the whole process too is just mad.

I did think this would blow over but now I am not sure how Maguire gets out of this one without a club sanction. Not sacked but he may lose the captaincy now. The timing of the England call ups has blown it up even more at home.

It’s not just a bar fight though is it?

it extended into resisting arrest, violent aggression on a police man and trying to bribe him. Those are three very serious offences. Especially bribery, which will cause Maguire the most issues as a captain and marketing asset.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

My apologies, I worded that poorly. I meant evidence that the thing with the sister actually occured. People here seem convinced it did, so I wondered why.

A witness said something happened with his sister, as to what there are various stories doing the rounds. Thing is that witness would not be called as it is not what Harry was charged with, but the original incident led to the later incidents.

 

[blue blue]

Yes I know that. I don't believe them.

The police lie when they have cocked up, its what they do and you would do well to remember that if you ever interact with them.

I have interacted with Police who have made mistakes and they held their hands up and correctly dropped the charge. The thing to do with the Police is to not upset them. You would do well to take this advice.

There will have to be some pretty extraordinary evidence for Maguire to win this appeal. Unless they can find videos proving him to be paragon of virtue any Greek judge will side with the Police. Maguires Lawyers will be playing to his sense of justice and telling him "we will fight this all the way". The bills will be enormous and they will be the only winners. Apart from the trash press that is.

 

[Wibble]

My apologies, I worded that poorly. I meant evidence that the thing with the sister actually occured. People here seem convinced it did, so I wondered why.

I don't think we can be sure of anything but we have heard that this is what happened and evidence in a case like this requires witnesses, and there were none for the defense.

 

[sammsky1]

Of course it does. One thing led directly to the other.

It’s like VAR - how far you want to go back? It was at a different location. Anyways seems like judge has taken that stance.

 

[Smores]

Yep it seems like they'd decided he was guilty no matter what happened.

No actual evidence of assault apart from a testimony from 2 officers, and 1 of them apparently falling over and getting injured.

Oh and the "multiple bribes" that yet again have no proof, only their word against his.

Amazing how other countries can find a guilty verdict with no evidence, this would have been kicked out in England easily.

You don't actually think you get off with attacking a police officer in the UK as long as no one else is watching and it's not on video do you? Testimony is evidence by the way

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It’s like VAR - how far you want to go back? It was at a different location. Anyways seems like judge has taken that stance.

If the first incident hadn't happened he would not be at any of the other locations.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

You don't actually think you get off with attacking a police officer in the UK as long as no one else is watching and it's not on video do you? Testimony is evidence by the way

In this country you would be exceptionally lucky for it not to be on video. Just about everything is caught on camera.

 

[Wibble]

It’s like VAR - how far you want to go back? It was at a different location. Anyways seems like judge has taken that stance.

It is nothing like VAR.

The fight that saw the police called was seemingly started by the attempted drugging of his sister with the presumed purpose of date rape. All part of a single event that resulted in the plain clothes cops jumping in Macguire and defending himself. If his story isn't true that is one thing but not to even examine the whole event is ludicrous.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Ha ha!

Maguire should not have even allowed himself to be in that situation. Absolute stupidity. And it shows the players don't have anywhere near the same fear/respect they did with Fergie.

Ole will have to start laying down the law. Mr nice guy won't be enough to manage this situation. I wonder if he has it in his locker?

God help any of your family, if they are in trouble, clearly they could not depend on you for any help!

 

[Rado_N]

I've seen this mentioned a few times, but like, what do you expect them to say?

"Oh yeah 'arry loves a good fight, he's a mad cnut, loves to thump boys so he does".

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Where are all these people with their phones filming everything when you actually need them.

 

[TMDaines]

I've seen this mentioned a few times, but like, what do you expect them to say?

"Oh yeah 'arry loves a good fight, he's a mad cnut, loves to thump boys so he does".

He's just not that sort of player, Spanner.

 

[Drainy]

Unless they can find videos proving him to be paragon of virtue any Greek judge will side with the Police.

Well that is injustice and at odds with the the beyond a reasonable doubt standards we take for granted and why a guilty verdict may not be as clean cut as people act like it is...

 

[JPRouve]

It's people around football, not just his team mates or friends.

Which is even worse, you don't exactly expect him to be violent and drunk in a football setting?

 

[blue blue]

He's had his moments though.

 

[Dancfc]

Well and truly giving away the fact i'm not a lawyer but is it only Greece where he could activate the suspended sentence? If he could do so in the UK would he go to Greek custody or just serve his sentence here?

 

[Smores]

In this country you would be exceptionally lucky for it not to be on video. Just about everything is caught on camera.

Except it's not because most places aren't city centres. My sister as a copper was pushed down the stairs twice, attacked with knives and run over, all those people got done without any video evidence.

 

[Adam-Utd]

You don't actually think you get off with attacking a police officer in the UK as long as no one else is watching and it's not on video do you? Testimony is evidence by the way

If they were wearing plain clothes and didn't announce themselves before attempting an arrest then yes, they'd be in the wrong and the charges would be dropped.

They were resisting arrest and Maguire pushed 1 of them over which caused an injury. He didn't physically strike or beat them from what i've seen.

If as the story goes they approached them just after the altercation with the "albanians" then no wonder they were on edge and uncooperative.

Obviously the court are taking the Police officers word as gospel, but that doesn't mean they aren't lying/exaggerating to make their story stick.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Or people who have had bad experiences with him would be coming forward. You know like other public figures who are accused of crimes.

Ah come on, there's a stark difference between someone being a bit of a bellend who likes to get in drunken fights and such and a fecking paedo or rapist. Obviously people are going to come forward more for the latter.

Using his mates comments as a basis for "well he seems like a nice guy" is really silly.

 

[Drainy]

Which is even worse, you don't exactly expect him to be violent and drunk in a football setting?

Or they know the type who are those kind of pricks?

We all know the 'do you know who I am' bar fight players from stories in the media of people who have interacted with them and we hear nothing about Maguire other than he's a humble pleasant guy

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[Forevergiggs1]

The only dodgy stuff i gather is from the brisih media spinning this like a fecking dj. Adding the usually bullshit twitter ITK who spits up equally dumb founded fiction

Being abducted in a van? That's maguire and co own chartered van. Instructed by cops to take them to police station, not some abandoned warehouse while maguire instructed them to run from actual cops. Which to be fair he might not now for sure at that time.

Stabbed with sharp object? I'd hazard a guess this was probably nothing like the sort we imagine. Knowing the daily mail if she's stabbed like really stabbed and drugged we'll read alot more bombastic reporting. Yet they're playing with words. Stabbed with sharp object and drew blood? Wtf. If it's true maguire sister was seriously involved any lawyer worth their salt would make a big scene out of it. And if she's injured it'll already be leaked to press with full photos.

Albanian gangster? Drugging a woman in a big group? I mean come on, i dont believe greek is squeaky clean but thinking they're gonna prick and drugged a girl amidst a big fight in view of all her mates? I dont think albanian gangster are that stupid. What about the oppo fans? Where have they gone? Replaced with a more menacing version?

And subjective framing words. Allegedly, lead to believe, according to close source, which changes every fecking day and seems to escalate more and more.

I believe in witness, but if the whole thing is true the whole stuff would be synchronized and told properly. It's wont be "new evidence" on a daily basis. You either get a witness, grab the whole story or you probably made shit up.

We've read escalations from
Minor scuffle
Misunderstanding
Drunk behavior
....
....
....
2 albanian gangster involved in human trafficking

And you guys lap it all up because maguire looks like a proper gentlemen.

This more or less is my take on it as well. My knowledge of date rape drugs is minimal at best but I thought the whole point was to slip something in their drink so it goes undetected, not stick a feckin needle in her arm for everyone to see. If it did happen then that's a big story in itself with obvious connections to contagious diseases being a big factor and it apparently wasn't brought up at trial which it should of been due to mitigating circumstances.

Harry fecked up. The Greek police fecked up. End of story. Its not the first time people on holiday partying have made bad choices and it certainly won't be the last but if I was Harrys defence lawyer I wouldn't put in a statement that Harry is a great lover of ancient Greek culture because I think that is one step too far

 

[Drainy]

Ah come on, there's a stark difference between someone being a bit of a bellend who likes to get in drunken fights and such and a fecking paedo or rapist. Obviously people are going to come forward more for the latter.

Using his mates comments as a basis for "well he seems like a nice guy" is really silly.

And yet the press do run the footballer in 'do you know who I am' bar fight stories.

Would be extra spicy now..