[RedDevilQuebecois]

Many players moved to smaller clubs to try and resurrect their career. I doubt most of them celebrated the pay cut and loss of prestige that came with either

This. By choosing money over what is best for his playing career, Maguire chose to put himself into the firing line while Southgate has been acting like an accelerant to that dumpster fire of a situation.

 

[Leethal]

It's convenient that there isn't any point providing detail. That's the issue with you lot, you talk in whining generalisations providing no substance to actually debate on.

The media have in no way treated him unusually and on social media he gets the same comments as any poorly playing player.

If you require someone to actually point it out, god help you. It's everywhere.

 

[mancan92]

Um, where's the evidence that things will get better if he leaves?

The fact that he plays for us means he will always have far more scrutiny. The moment he moves to West ham he will be far less relevant so less stories, less eyes, less pressure and so it's a certainty he will have a much better situation.

 

[Ish]

Not a fan of him (as a player) but this is unacceptable. It's still just a sport at the end of the day. Wish those harassing and abusing him all the misery in the world.

 

[Leethal]

The fact that he plays for us means he will always have far more scrutiny. The moment he moves to West ham he will be far less relevant so less stories, less eyes, less pressure and so it's a certainty he will have a much better situation.

Based on what evidence? Are you a sociologist?

He's a walking meme at this point. He moves to West Ham, fans kick off as they don't want him because of how poorly he's been portrayed (granted he's played poorly too), and then they jump on his back at the first mistake he makes. All the while earning half. Yeah, good choices, there, Harry.

Same shit, half the money.

I love how you whoppers actually believe in your own twisted world that if you were in the similar situation, you'd happily drop wages in half for a 'potential' more relaxing career with less spotlight which is not guaranteed, by any stretch. Like absolute feck you would. Just outright delusion.

He has no future outside of football. No personality, the world think's he's a joke, and he wouldn't garner much respect as a coach due to his portrayal. This is all he's got left. This will be his last decent contract he's ever going to get. He's 30 years old, and no club is going to pay anywhere near what United is. Why not make the most of it? The club gave it to him - this shit is on the club. He doesn't owe anything to some muppets on twitter.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

The media have in no way treated him unusually

This part I actually agree with.

on social media he gets the same comments as any poorly playing player.

This part is just not true. It got to the point with Maguire where he received a fecking bomb threat. That is so far beyond what "any poorly playing player" receives, and it stems from the fact that he is disproportionately chastised for absolutely everything he says or does on social media.

I'm sorry but if you don't agree with that, I really do not know what the point in going any further is. I don't know how anyone could look at the abuse Maguire faces on social media and think "yep, this is just the natural consequence of playing football poorly".

 

[Grande]

I love how so far every time he gets criticized it's United fans' fault.
Made a meme by the internet : United fan's fault.
Abused on social media : United fans' fault.
Booed by his own NT supporters : United fans' fault.

What did we do? he's shite and his mistakes are funny. People mock things that are funny. It's not rocket science. He should stop being funny, if he plays at his current level and keeps putting in decent performances on that level, people will naturally stop talking about him.

If you think it is okay to publicly mock people because you find their mistakes funny, I agree that you are the problem.

If somebody accuses you of mob behavior, it’s because that is mob behaviour, net becuse you are a United fan.

I can get behind criticizing a player for intentionally doing things that are unreasonable to hurt the club or country.

Booing a team for lack of effort, I can understand. Booing a player for making mistakes, that is lowly, it’s mob behaviour, and if anyone did it to my team colleague, employee or family member, I ‘d react to it as if they did it to the whole team.

 

[devilish]

Based on what evidence? Are you a sociologist?

He's a walking meme at this point. He moves to West Ham, fans kick off as they don't want him because of how poorly he's been portrayed (granted he's played poorly too), and then they jump on his back at the first mistake he makes. All the while earning half. Yeah, good choices, there, Harry.

Same shit, half the money.

I love how you whoppers actually believe in your own twisted world that if you were in the similar situation, you'd happily drop wages in half for a 'potential' more relaxing career with less spotlight which is not guaranteed, by any stretch. Like absolute feck you would. Just outright delusion.

He has no future outside of football. No personality, the world think's he's a joke, and he wouldn't garner much respect as a coach due to his portrayal. This is all he's got left. This will be his last decent contract he's ever going to get. He's 30 years old, and no club is going to pay anywhere near what United is. Why not make the most of it? The club gave it to him - this shit is on the club. He doesn't owe anything to some muppets on twitter.

At West Ham he will have less exposure, a manager who wants him and who plays a system suited to his strengths and for a club who isn't expected to win anything. I never wanted him but even I think he would probably cut ot there

 

[Leethal]

This part I actually agree with.

This part is just not true. It got to the point with Maguire where he received a fecking bomb threat. That is so far beyond what "any poorly playing player" receives, and it stems from the fact that he is disproportionately chastised for absolutely everything he says or does on social media.

I'm sorry but if you don't agree with that, I really do not know what the point in going any further is. I don't know how anyone could look at the abuse Maguire faces on social media and think "yep, this is just the natural consequence of playing football poorly".

Exactly. I've been trying to argue this. You look at any post, anywhere, and even not related to United/Maguire, and somehow, his name finds his way into it.

 

[Grande]

His mommy's come out to defend him. What a loser, honestly.

What kind of person calls anyone ‘a loser’?

 

[Mike Smalling]

Can't believe there are people that don't agree with the completely rational posters in this thread who would all jump at the opportunity to uproot their families, moving away from both their and their wife's extended families and take their kids away from their grandparents, in order to take a job at a company they don't want to work for and live in a city they don't want to live in, for half the money they are currently earning.

What you are lacking in that is the chance to play regular football games, to stay sharp and to contribute meaningfully to a team. He's simply not fit for purpose at United, as evidenced by ETH selecting a left-back as fourth choice before Maguire. I think that is why most people give him stick. He's well within his rights to stay and collect his salary, but it does come across as a bit deluded when he comes out with the whole "stay and fight for my place" story.

 

[Leethal]

At West Ham he will have less exposure, a manager who wants him and who plays a system suited to his strengths and for a club who isn't expected to win anything

It's not managers berating him. It's the fans, media, and social media. Less exposure? Are you sure? People will be waiting with baited breath to sling vitriolic abuse his way as soon as he makes an inevitable mistake - that I can guarantee.

He's ex-Manchester United. Stripped of captaincy. Laughed at universally. West Ham fans won't want him because of the way he is currently portrayed. Do you think that shit just goes away when he moves clubs? Really?

 

[Leethal]

What you are lacking in that is the chance to play regular football games, to stay sharp and to contribute meaningfully to a team. He's simply not fit for purpose at United, as evidenced by ETH selecting a left-back as fourth choice before Maguire. I think that is why most people give him stick. He's well within his rights to stay and collect his salary, but it does come across as a bit deluded when he comes out with the whole "stay and fight for my place" story.

Maybe - just maybe - he want's to fight for his spot. Isn't that what we want from our players? Or do we want them to just leave whenever they are no longer first choice? We'd have no squad.

 

[redIndianDevil]

He needs help and support from people around him. Southgate isn't doing him any favours by putting him in the spotlight. He needs to play some dead rubbers and easy games and must be gradually brought into the fold again. Any competitive games the opponents are trying put off few players and Maguire right now is a prime candidate for abuse.

I don't like the fact that he ended up staying for money but he is entitled to do it. It's not his fault out management was morons and handed him that contract. But I feel he made a mistake, after this season his stock is obviously going way down, he is going to lose his England position as well with the emergence of Colvill and others. West Ham fans aren't that sold on Maguire anyways, plenty of CBs on the market to be signed up cheap as well. He is no way going to get a better contract than the one he got at West Ham this summer.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

It's not managers berating him. It's the fans, media, and social media. Less exposure? Are you sure? People will be waiting with baited breath to sling vitriolic abuse his way as soon as he makes an inevitable mistake - that I can guarantee.

He's ex-Manchester United. Stripped of captaincy. Laughed at universally. West Ham fans won't want him because of the way he is currently portrayed. Do you think that shit just goes away when he moves clubs? Really?

To be fair, I do think the extent of the abuse would fall if he went to West Ham. I do agree, though, that the people who think it would stop are kidding themselves. There'd still be plenty of sad sacks waiting for the first mistake he made so they could plaster it all over Twitter.

I think the more salient point, though, is that "Oh well, he didn't leave United when we wanted him to; he deserves all the abuse we give him" is a pretty mind-numbingly cruel way to look at the situation. As I said in much less pleasant terms earlier in the thread, is it really so hard for people to just not be horrible?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What you are lacking in that is the chance to play regular football games, to stay sharp and to contribute meaningfully to a team. He's simply not fit for purpose at United, as evidenced by ETH selecting a left-back as fourth choice before Maguire. I think that is why most people give him stick. He's well within his rights to stay and collect his salary, but it does come across as a bit deluded when he comes out with the whole "stay and fight for my place" story.

Well seeing as Varane and Shaw are essentially made of glass, and Lindelof has a long term issue with his back it's not a massive leap of faith for Maguire to assume he'll get a fair few chances to play this season, when he might hope he can win the manager round. An assumption that was proved correct with just over two weeks of the season played

 

[Dan_F]

Firstly footballers are still people, I know people don't tend to look at them as such but they are so to some living close to family is important, we see that when players take wage cuts to move "home". Second, in financial terms it is a big cut regardless of whether you believe West Ham were going to pay him £120k or £100k. His current take home annual wage would be around £5.5m, moving to West Ham for £120k/week would be £3.3m annually, or £100k/week would be £2.7m annually. I realise these numbers are big but that is a massive reduction in take home wage that he is entitled to as we gave him the contract. If the football club wanted to him to go that badly after accepting a bid they should have paid the difference in contracts, as most football clubs do in that instance.

Again, he is of course entitled to do as he pleases, he’s signed the contract etc etc. different discussion but I don’t know any other line of work where you would be guaranteed to continue working, despite underperforming continually.

Professional footballers living close to extended family must be unbelievably rare. I can’t even imagine what my relationship with my grandparents would have to be for me to worry about living three hours away from them as a multi millionaire.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Maybe - just maybe - he want's to fight for his spot. Isn't that what we want from our players? Or do we want them to just leave whenever they are no longer first choice? We'd have no squad.

And how did that go last season? He doesn't have the toolkit to become first choice in this United side with the tactics ETH wants to use. He's too slow and clumsy, and it isn't going to change. So he can fight all he wants, but he's simply going to turn into a viable option. Only way he gets serious game time is through injury problems, and then he will get exposed again.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Based on what evidence? Are you a sociologist?



He's a walking meme at this point. He moves to West Ham, fans kick off as they don't want him because of how poorly he's been portrayed (granted he's played poorly too), and then they jump on his back at the first mistake he makes. All the while earning half. Yeah, good choices, there, Harry.



Same shit, half the money.



I love how you whoppers actually believe in your own twisted world that if you were in the similar situation, you'd happily drop wages in half for a 'potential' more relaxing career with less spotlight which is not guaranteed, by any stretch. Like absolute feck you would. Just outright delusion.



He has no future outside of football. No personality, the world think's he's a joke, and he wouldn't garner much respect as a coach due to his portrayal. This is all he's got left. This will be his last decent contract he's ever going to get. He's 30 years old, and no club is going to pay anywhere near what United is. Why not make the most of it? The club gave it to him - this shit is on the club. He doesn't owe anything to some muppets on twitter.

Maguire would look very good in the West Ham setup, his distribution is fairly good and in the low block Moyes plays he wouldn't get exposed so much and with his distribution he'd look incredible for such teams. He isn't injury prone as well, he has got a good 5-6 years left in him. After this season, he is losing his England position. He is definitely going to get a poorer contract than the one he received from West Ham this Summer.

I don't mind him staying for the money but IMO with the decision he has taken this year, he stands to lose much more than if he had agreed to a paycut at West Ham

 

[Leethal]

And how did that go last season? He doesn't have the toolkit to become first choice in this United side with the tactics ETH wants to use. He's too slow and clumsy, and it isn't going to change. So he can fight all he wants, but he's simply going to turn into a viable option. Only way he gets serious game time is through injury problems, and then he will get exposed again.

I don't disagree at all. But that's his choice to make, not social media's. And because his choice and self belief doesn't align, he shouldn't be subject to the abuse.

 

[JB7]

Gosh. On top of my head I can think of balotelli, baggio, depays and buffon. A quick Google search unearthed three this year alone from the same club ie Christian Pulisic, Ruben Loftus-Cheek and Callum Hudson-Odoi

The vast majority of players don't want to move to smaller clubs. It hits their pockets, their standard of living, their ego and their progression. However they do it because they see their football career under threat. There aren't many bogarde/maguires around which is why they tend to make the news. Tbf maguire has the support of Southgate who would play his favourites no matter what

I can remember Baggio doing that when he went to Bologna in fairness, so fair enough there's that one. Buffon was without a club and went "home" for the final year or two of his career, like a lot of players. Balotelli I'm trying to work out which move you mean to be honest, Marseille to Brescia? If so he was without a club. Liverpool to Nice? He was completely left out of Liverpool's tour and was going to be left out of the PL squad before being given a free transfer, and by all account Nice didn't pay him a great deal less than he was on at Liverpool. Depay similar, he was pretty much cast aside and went to Lyon on about 80% of the salary he'd been on at United, with the tax laws in France at the time there was the potential for the that to significantly increase too.

The three Chelsea lads have gone to clubs that Milan and Forest will a) have received decent pay-offs to go and b) haven't taken a near 50% salary cut at their new clubs.

If West Ham were offering him £160k (take home £4.6m) I could perhaps understand some of the comments but if you're being expected to take a drop in real-term earnings from £5.5 to £2.7m then realistically any player is going to want to be compensation properly to leave.

What you are lacking in that is the chance to play regular football games, to stay sharp and to contribute meaningfully to a team. He's simply not fit for purpose at United, as evidenced by ETH selecting a left-back as fourth choice before Maguire. I think that is why most people give him stick. He's well within his rights to stay and collect his salary, but it does come across as a bit deluded when he comes out with the whole "stay and fight for my place" story.

Yeah I'm well aware of that but realistically that was up to the club to make happen, if they had paid up the difference in contracts by way of a "loyalty bonus" upon leaving like most clubs do without any fuss, he'd likely be a West Ham player now.

And realistically he will always get game-time here, look at the injuries we've already faced. It's not as if we have completely cast him outside and left him out the squads.

Again, he is of course entitled to do as he pleases, he’s signed the contract etc etc. different discussion but I don’t know any other line of work where you would be guaranteed to continue working, despite underperforming continually.

Professional footballers living close to extended family must be unbelievably rare. I can’t even imagine what my relationship with my grandparents would have to be for me to worry about living three hours away from them as a multi millionaire.

You do understand that your kids grandparents aren't your own grandparents...right?

 

[Castia]

Maybe - just maybe - he want's to fight for his spot. Isn't that what we want from our players? Or do we want them to just leave whenever they are no longer first choice? We'd have no squad.

Not when he’s 5th choice, had the captaincy taken away, been made public that we want to sell him and have accepted a bid from West Ham

I mean come on. ETH made it clear last season when he was picking Shaw at CB ahead of him, he has the right to stay because of his contract but he’s been getting criticism at the club for years now.

Staying and fighting for his place is one thing but staying after all that… he just didn’t want to lose money and the club wouldn’t top up his wage at West Ham

 

[Dorris]

Remember Phil Jones anyone? Years of abuse then he did that interview about how it affected him mentally and everyone came out in support, including many of the hypocrites that absolutely batter Maguire daily. This is 10 times worse.

 

[Leethal]

Maguire would look very good in the West Ham setup, his distribution is fairly good and in the low block Moyes plays he wouldn't get exposed so much and with his distribution he'd look incredible for such teams. He isn't injury prone as well, he has got a good 5-6 years left in him. After this season, he is losing his England position. He is definitely going to get a poorer contract than the one he received from West Ham this Summer.

I don't mind him staying for the money but IMO with the decision he has taken this year, he stands to lose much more than if he had agreed to a paycut at West Ham

I absolutely agree 100% that he would be more suited to West Ham. But the decision for him to stay lies with himself - not social media's. United offered him the ridiculous contract in the first place. Maybe this will be a lesson learned for the club? Though I doubt it.

 

[RomfordRed75]

My opinion is that West Ham would have been a poor choice to go to. They turn on their players and the team quicker than many other fans do.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Well seeing as Varane and Shaw are essentially made of glass, and Lindelof has a long term issue with his back it's not a massive leap of faith for Maguire to assume he'll get a fair few chances to play this season, when he might hope he can win the manager round. An assumption that was proved correct with just over two weeks of the season played

He will get chances for sure, but if he seriously hopes to win over the manager he is deluded. There are limitations to Maguire's game that is simply incompatible with how we want to play, and he should be able to see it. But like I said, he can of course stay as back-up, start 10-15 games a season and collect his massive pay check. That's fine. But his contract will run out, and United will recruit 1-2 new CBs, before he fights his way to become part of the best XI. That should be clear.

 

[mintyred]

My opinion is that West Ham would have been a poor choice to go to. They turn on their players and the team quicker than many other fans do.

He also wouldn't get in the team.

 

[Jeffthered]

Is this all about him wishing to retain his £15m in wages? Asking Man Utd to honour the contract?

If this is the case, then £15m is a lotta' cash. But Maguire also needs to do some talking on the pitch. He should be telling himself that he needs to prove to ETH and the fans that he is a top player. That is on him. Dominate a game, he's a ball-player, so get us to play more football from the back, that was what we paid for, right? And get forward and score a few from set-pieces, like Varane, like Casimero.

Just get on with it Harry. Block the outside nonsense out. And (or) compromise on those contractual arrangements, because no other club is going to match what you're currently on, no way. Blame OGS for that.

However, some of the abuse he receives, threats etc are just completely unacceptable. Awful.

 

[andy0]

Blimey, some of this argument is intense

Joke copied in from elsewhere:

"England score Scotland’s only goal, that’s the Barnett formula in action."

 

[Dan_F]

You do understand that your kids grandparents aren't your own grandparents...right?

Right…sorry for mis-reading. Copy and paste what I said and change it to parents.

 

[mintyred]

Remember Phil Jones anyone? Years of abuse then he did that interview about how it affected him mentally and everyone came out in support, including many of the hypocrites that absolutely batter Maguire daily. This is 10 times worse.

The abuse Phil Jones got wasn't in his control whereas Maguires is. If Maguire wants this abuse to stop then either leave and prove yourself or play better. No one ever speaks about how Maguire hasn't even attempted to improve as a player. Playing a victim is rife within the English camp right now, no one wants to take responsibility for their failings. Dele, Sancho, Maguire, Drinkwater etc. When did the English get so soft?

 

[Lyng]

If you require someone to actually point it out, god help you. It's everywhere.

No it isnt. Social media and fans, yes. The english media? Absolutely not. I have already provided evidence of the opposite, so its only fair to ask you to actually show evidence of this media witch hunt you claim is going on.

 

[Adisa]

His mommy's come out to defend him. What a loser, honestly.

Is this a serious post?

 

[Red71]

As ever, there are valid points on both sides of the argument. Do I think he should be playing for England at the moment…? No. Do I think he should have done better with the og…? Yes. Did I want him to be replaced at Utd with a defender that is more suited to the kind of front foot football we’re trying to play…? Of course.

From a human perspective however, he doesn’t deserve the vitriol he gets online. He doesn’t deserve to be used as a punchline in a far flung country’s political debate. It is ridiculous and whilst he’s going to get more pelters for it, his mum is right. Anyone that has had kids or nephews and nieces would feel the same way.

If we had owners that gave a shite about our club and how it was run then maybe we wouldn’t have been so desperate to shift Harry out first before we could bring in his replacement. Also, the confluence of events that has seen him brought in from the cold, not just into the squad but in the team, is unprecedented. I’m sure that nobody who heard it said he’d fight for his place expected him to actually get his place back or that we’d be looking at a situation where 3 CBS and a LB/CB would all be injured at the same time. Those issues are not on him.

We might not want him in the team and I agree with the tweet that said that he gives the opposition (fans and team) hope. Nevertheless, he plays for United and whilst he does that, we need to close ranks. It’s one thing to whinge and whine on the Caf but I feel strongly that United fans going on social media to slate the lad or booing him at games should catch themselves on. They are just helping to make a mockery of our club. I’m sure I’ll get some calling me out as a top red or Harry’s uncle or whatever but I don’t really give a monkey’s. Whilst he’s with us, we should do what we always used to do…draw in the wagons, loudly support our team and back our players. This also sends out a message to our other players and those that are yet to join us. Whilst you’re one of ours, we got your back!

Feck everyone else, we’re Man Utd! Rant over…

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He will get chances for sure, but if he seriously hopes to win over the manager he is deluded. There are limitations to Maguire's game that is simply incompatible with how we want to play, and he should be able to see it. But like I said, he can of course stay as back-up, start 10-15 games a season and collect his massive pay check. That's fine. But his contract will run out, and United will recruit 1-2 new CBs, before he fights his way to become part of the best XI. That should be clear.

I don’t think it’s possible to get to the very highest level in sport without having the sort of self belief that might be perceived as delusional. He probably thinks he’s one of the most expensive defenders in the world for a reason, has proven himself at the highest possible level for England and just needs some more time to show ETH that he’s a better player than he’s looked under him so far.

 

[KD6-3.7]

It's hard to feel sorry for him when it was his decision not to leave the club despite it being in everyone's best interest, especially his own but he chose money.

 

[Dorris]

The abuse Phil Jones got wasn't in his control whereas Maguires is. If Maguire wants this abuse to stop then either leave and prove yourself or play better. No one ever speaks about how Maguire hasn't even attempted to improve as a player. Playing a victim is rife within the English camp right now, no one wants to take responsibility for their failings. Dele, Sancho, Maguire, Drinkwater etc. When did the English get so soft?

Utterly bizarre take. He was a very good player a couple of seasons ago, remember how everyone was devastated when he missed the EL final and how much we missed him? He had a bad start to 21/22 and that’s when the abuse began, and it’s obvious it’s destroyed him mentally, as I’m sure it would to most players. His own fans have made him the player he is today, I’ve never seen abuse like it. I think the fact he’s English plays a major part in the abuse, exemplified by your xenophobic tone.

 

[izak]

Some of the bullying has been ridiculous. If we care about Sancho's possible fragile mental well-being, should we not also apply tthat same standard to Maguire? Enough is enough. Can we not defend our own players or at least not add greater vitriol than opposition fans?

What do you want to use as points to defend him against opposition fans?

 

[izak]

I love how so far every time he gets criticized it's United fans' fault.
Made a meme by the internet : United fan's fault.
Abused on social media : United fans' fault.
Booed by his own NT supporters : United fans' fault.

What did we do? he's shite and his mistakes are funny. People mock things that are funny. It's not rocket science. He should stop being funny, if he plays at his current level and keeps putting in decent performances on that level, people will naturally stop talking about him.

Well said.

 

[Nogho]

How could you possibly feel sorry for a professional footballer with full rights to decide his own future and have more possibilities to live a fantastic life then the most of us.

The person Harry Maguire gets paid enormous amounts of money and are able to live a life less than a 0.00001people are allowed. This because he should be fantastic football who’s job it is to make fans happy who pay to watch him play.

He could quit at anytime and take his enormous amount of life advantages and live a perfectly happy life and at the same time be rid of all hate and media coverage.

Or he could continue to play football, but in a team and a league which suits his current abilities.

Both of the above alternatives will silence the “media” and Harry can get on with his life and live happily ever after.

We are surely living in a sick world, feeling sorry for millionaires who have everything they want and needs times ten.