Thats the sort of performance you want as a third choice CB. Keep it up Harry.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Clean sheets
- 17
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
*fourth
Wait a minute, was that Maguire's fault also?
If you feel him mistiming a tackle is the only thing he did wrong, then I strongly suggest you rewatch the first half.
He was poor positionally, took too long on the ball with his hesitancy, gave the ball away a number of times and generally causes anxiety in the defence. Milk turns quicker.
I would imagine so.
Agree with this. He thrives in a deeper defensive position, where we can counter attack at pace, and does get caught out when higher up the pitch.
Thought he did reasonably well, got some good headers and blocks in, but going forward I don't think he's a Ten Hag type of player, and I can see him possibly moving on in the summer, when we will most likely purchase a young up and coming CB, and/or promote from within the club.
I would like to see Tuanzebe play in a Ten Hag team, he's done wonders for Dalot, I wonder if he could do the same with Tuanzebe?
Not his biggest fan, far from it, but it was really nice seeing him smiling celebrating with Martinez after the win yeaterday.
It was the most striking memory and half of you will base your judgement on that incident.
He maybe had a bit of strange positioning but was never a problem imo, on the other side I had issue with him spending too much time after some set pieces in their box and wasting time getting back for example.
His hesitancy and long time on the ball, can be applied on Martinez as well, he did the same and it was also very much to our midfield and Rice basically having a great game. He tried some stupid balls and some of them were way off, other were pretty good ideas which did not come out. In reality he was nowhere near bad enough on the ball. In defense he was immense and contributed massively to the team winning the game. DDG obviously understood that and congratulated him at the end.
I am not blaming him for us ceding control of the match. A CB can only do so much to arrest the tide and gain back control. Saying that, our line was noticeably deeper which can definitely impact the compactness and effectiveness of the press (coupled with the big Ronaldo issue).
The problem is that we lost fluidity in our build up even when we were dominating which meant that we were slower in reaching the final third and lost opportunities to fashion chances.
He had a decent game, but thats it. Given what we have experienced with Varane & Martinez, its hard to get excited with Maguire’s display as we have seen enough over the last couple of years to know that he does not fit well in a proactive defensive system.
As for yesterdays game, I would rate him 7 out of 10. 5/10 for the first third of the game, 6,5 for the middle third and 8,5/10 for the last third. So there you have my assesment of that particular game. So a decent game, on the whole, that sounds reasonable to me.
After that, one can focus on different parts of the game. I think the first part is not really representable of his potential in this team, because it is clearly what you’d expect from a player who havent played in a few months, who is not used to the new managers style, and who is nervous because the last time he played much, he had his worat spell in his carreer.
The second part of the game may be representable for what you point out - a normal Ten Hag-game how he wants it. It points to that he can do a decent job in such circumstances, but not at the level of Martinez and Varane. Tbh, I think he has development in him yet when it comes to his weaknesses, so I think he can become more than decent in thise kinds of games, but an injury free Varane and in form Martinez will be my first choices even then.
The last part points to something you also mention. In games where we are pegged back or want to play a lower line, or we meet opponents whose strength are in aerial crosses and set pieces, he can be a brilliant asset. I really like Lindelöf as a versatile and intelligent stand in, but there are games in the PL where I would definitely rather throw in Harry than Victor. So a very useful player to have. If he is such a lovely person that most of his colleagues seems to think, that sounds like a very good squad option for a team aiming at the highest level. That’s my long term assesment.
THats how I saw it. First half he just wanted to make sure he didnt make a mistake. I think he grew into the game and defo became better when we went backs against the wall which suits him in the penalty area. His block on the line was really good positioning (with a bit of luck cos you can easily see that deflecting of him and going in).
The clean sheet will help his confidence.
Be genuinely shocked if ten hag told the players to do this
I didn't see the game yesterday as I was travelling back from London but I listened on the radio and they had nothing but positive things to say about Maguire.
According to WhoScored he was statistically our 2nd-best player behind Diogo Dalot
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...r-League-2022-2023-Manchester-United-West-Ham
We can be back and forth on fluffy, highly-subjective things like 'was he slow on the ball?', 'did he find enough forward passes' etc....but at this stage, if you're using words like 'poor' or 'terrible' etc...then your agenda is showing
Some people might say 'why do I care?'...well, I don't like the way some of our players are scapegoated and I don't like the way some of our 'fans' seem to want to only have negative things to say about players they have decided they don't like.
The best thing for Manchester United is that Harry Maguire finds form and confidence, so that's what we should all be rooting for. Not hoping he makes mistakes or looking for ways to put him down when he does play in an attempt to 'win' an argument on the Internet
You've got to able to be objective, which is why I have criticised Rashford in the past but said many nice things about him this year, for example
According to WhoScored he was statistically our 2nd-best player behind Diogo Dalot
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...r-League-2022-2023-Manchester-United-West-Ham
We can be back and forth on fluffy, highly-subjective things like 'was he slow on the ball?', 'did he find enough forward passes' etc....but at this stage, if you're using words like 'poor' or 'terrible' etc...then your agenda is showing
Some people might say 'why do I care?'...well, I don't like the way some of our players are scapegoated and I don't like the way some of our 'fans' seem to want to only have negative things to say about players they have decided they don't like.
The best thing for Manchester United is that Harry Maguire finds form and confidence, so that's what we should all be rooting for. Not hoping he makes mistakes or looking for ways to put him down when he does play in an attempt to 'win' an argument on the Internet
You've got to able to be objective, which is why I have criticised Rashford in the past but said many nice things about him this year, for example
The dial really has swung too far in the opposite direction with Maguire: he’s low on confidence and just returning to the league after a period of not playing, but is given absolutely no leeway in relation to those things.
Relative to those factors, he had a good game as there aren’t many players who slot back into sides under those conditions and perform seamlessly well.
It’s clear he cannot usurp the starting CB’s, but his battle is a direct contest with Lindelof for back-up whilst Varane is out, and that’s what I’ll mostly judge him on. I prefer the Swede from the two, but at least it can be competitive between them on who gets the playing time if Maguire can contribute to clean sheets as he did yesterday.
Relative to those factors, he had a good game as there aren’t many players who slot back into sides under those conditions and perform seamlessly well.
It’s clear he cannot usurp the starting CB’s, but his battle is a direct contest with Lindelof for back-up whilst Varane is out, and that’s what I’ll mostly judge him on. I prefer the Swede from the two, but at least it can be competitive between them on who gets the playing time if Maguire can contribute to clean sheets as he did yesterday.
I agree with your assessment and have no problem with Maguire having a squad role with him being preferred in games that suit his strengths.
The questions that face EtH from an overall squad development points are:
1) Is Maguire going to be happy long term with the squad role: so far he has been professional about it. Need to observe over the next few months
2) Does him not starting lead to additional pressure on EtH: Definitely yes with the English media repeatedly asking EtH if he is going to play. However, not too worried as EtH seems to be able to manage it well and it also comes with the territory of managing a big club like United
3) Does his wages reflect his squad status: No, I think he is overpaid. Doesn’t really matter personally as any wage savings are going into Glazer pockets. Would become a concern long term if it restricts us in adding more quality
thats what 80m pays for. A decent fourth choice centre back
Good game? More like an uneasy stop gap.
I’ve just seen an 82% progressive pass rate, did not feel like it because most of those passes should have been to feet but not long punts.
He was ponderous on the ball and even the dinner lady knew who he was going to pass the ball to. I wasn’t that bothered to be honest especially with Casemeiro dropping deeper to solve that issue.
My main gripe is how big the midfield got for our CMs due to how deep or hesitant the CBs were to move up the pitch. If people think those back to wall defender mask that problem or was enough, we are taking backward steps in our play here. Our midfield gassed due to how much ground they had to cover and this led or allowed that fight back by WHam.
Is anyone even questioning why or how Dalot had to end up with all those defensive headers. Imagine if it was Shaw, we’ll hear all about the issues that comes with having to play with a dwarf CB.
I’ve just seen an 82% progressive pass rate, did not feel like it because most of those passes should have been to feet but not long punts.
He was ponderous on the ball and even the dinner lady knew who he was going to pass the ball to. I wasn’t that bothered to be honest especially with Casemeiro dropping deeper to solve that issue.
My main gripe is how big the midfield got for our CMs due to how deep or hesitant the CBs were to move up the pitch. If people think those back to wall defender mask that problem or was enough, we are taking backward steps in our play here. Our midfield gassed due to how much ground they had to cover and this led or allowed that fight back by WHam.
Is anyone even questioning why or how Dalot had to end up with all those defensive headers. Imagine if it was Shaw, we’ll hear all about the issues that comes with having to play with a dwarf CB.
Sadly the pound isnt what it used to be after brexit
didn't know we only signed him this summer
Looked very low on confidence - wanted to get rid of the ball etc, looked a little shaky. All to be expected and he did what he had to do well yesterday. I would say though that he was protected by the system - and particularly by Casehero - but that invited late West Ham pressure we really could have done without. If we'd have managed to get another goal in the game it would have been fine but with just a 1 goal lead us sitting so deep to protect Harry caused serious problems. He's got to be moved on if possible - even if we have to pay a large part of his wages.
It's extremely unfair to compare him to Varane. One is a top class CB who has won everything. The other is a decent PL, CB who would fit into a low block mid table side.
He did defensively what he had to do because his usefulness came when we defending deep in the box.
Is he a top CB? No I don't think so. He didn't make many mistakes as he did use to make.
The one he went diving in and gave away a free kick was understandable. Otherwise he would have been beaten for pace. He had a decent game yesterday.
He did defensively what he had to do because his usefulness came when we defending deep in the box.
Is he a top CB? No I don't think so. He didn't make many mistakes as he did use to make.
The one he went diving in and gave away a free kick was understandable. Otherwise he would have been beaten for pace. He had a decent game yesterday.
He was uneasy at times on the ball, and had his usual "close down a striker but fail to get a ball resulting in the opposition getting a run in behind" moment. And you're right about the backline being too deep at times. But these things gets lost in today's stat obsessed game.
At least he made an important block towards the end to be fair. But what he brings to the table doesn't justify what we pay him.
Hopefully most of these issues will iron out with more games with this team. If it doesn’t, the whole defensive approach will have to change to accommodate him.
Hopefully we don’t head down that road. At least No Contact Lindelof dares to defend higher up the pitch and allows us time to recover.
That's an important detail that needs to be reiterated: it's not easy slotting back in after being out for so long. In that respect, he was fine. They didn't score. He stopped a couple of things. I, too, prefer Lindelof to Maguire, but I sincerely hope Maguire sorts his game out fast because we need him fit and firing.
People saying 'Maguire made us defend deep' might want to look at all our other games this season where we have naturally dropped back and defended deep for periods.
The difference is that we were fresher in those games and we came out on top more convincingly than yesterday.
I'm not saying Maguire is the answer but our tendency to contain and defend is not a new thing. We've had a brutal run of games and it's not going to stop until the World Cup.
The difference is that we were fresher in those games and we came out on top more convincingly than yesterday.
I'm not saying Maguire is the answer but our tendency to contain and defend is not a new thing. We've had a brutal run of games and it's not going to stop until the World Cup.
We've have statistically the 2nd deepest 'defensive line' in the league this season (defensive actions distance from goal), Maguire has played 3 games. We should sign Dawson and Zouma if it's so straightforward to pin the opposition.
If Varane gave the same performance as yesterday there would be shouts for man of the match on here.
Yes, it seems he’s professional about it so far, and it could seem like Ten Hag is able to handle such questions as he sees fit. Equally woth the media. Ten Hag withdrew both Maguire and Ronaldo early in tje season, media wrote a lot about it, it worked out, and now the story is that Ten Hag is not afraid of star power and can produce results regardless. The team looks more together than in a long time, and the media stories are slowly changing their tone, at least a few.
As for the money, if Maguire leaves, we will not get in a sinilar quality replacement at significantly lower wages, I don’t think. We’re not getting the 80m back either, those are on Woodward. So I think making the best of a situation that really isn’t bad. We have four high level CB’s, two of them
potentially world class. If Tuanzebe, Mengi or Fredrickson wants to develop into world beaters, we have room for them, otherwise we have a few years to single out the right new players to add.
Maybe it’s a stupid opinion, you could be right.
I know we’ve defended deep without Harry.
I just don’t want him in the team, he’s a bad player, that’s the real issue.
If anything those stats just illustrate what a load of bollocks stats like that can be.
Maguire had a decent game after a shaky start but for it to give him a rating better than Martinez is all the proof you need that the eye test is greater than stats generated like this. Martinez was the best player on the pitch along with Dalot. Martinez with a passing accuracy of 92% against Maguire’s 82%.
Those stats have the man of the match as the 3rd worst player in the starting line up by the way. So yeah, better to watch the match than base analysis on website stats.
Feck sake. Maguires passing was sideways and backwards all game and he spent way to long on the ball.
Varane has been excellent every game this season bar when he got injured.
Maguire in the last 20 minutes was indeed excellent, and the style suited him. But he was a fish out of water in the first half when we played higher.
Overall I was happy with his performance but let's not compare him to Varane just yet.
As I said. I get he is probably low on confidence and is afraid of making a mistake, but this is some damning stuff for an 80M CB. As a side note - no comment on that Ronaldo and Bruno positioning.
One thing is to not want him in the team, other thing is to blame him for what is not his fault. Ideally I want Varane and Martinez starting but Maguire did well and contributed. If anything we need him on top of his game at least until Rapha is back.
I'm not comparing the players I'm comparing the perception. For being 'excellent' for the last 20 minutes there would definitely have been shouts for man of the match for fan favourite Varane, rather than focusing on the one time he got caught in the first half.
You are making up situations in your head to then get upset about.
No. Even if it was Varane the focus would be on De Gea and Dalot who where leagues above in that match.
Absolutely. And if he is satisfied with that role its a fantastic option to have. Especially in games where we might be pinned down he is brilliant, which we saw against West Ham.
I was also very happy to see the little highfive between him and Eriksen after the match. It seems our troop has become more of a unit and that the drama in the dressing room might be gone now.
Harry is a good bloke who has had a terrible season, but if he accepts his role and keeps on working hard he could be a great asset for us. Both on and off the pitch.
Dalot was but yet 14% still voted for Martinez who was the least eye catching of the back 4.
That's nonsense in all regards. Varane has been heavily criticised on this forum no different to Rashford or Sancho and has numerous times been labelled a flop. Maguire showed in his performance why the defence has gone up several levels in his absence. He was terrible throughout the majority of the match mostly in possession of the ball and made some key contributions when the team was pinned back. One doesn't outweigh the other objectively.
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