[roonster09]

He didn't though did he? Vidic was outstanding next to Jonny Evans who was out of his depth next to pretty much anyone else.

That's not the point, point is just because someone said even Vidic needed players to cover his weakness doesn't mean that poster is comparing them on their abilities. Vidic is one of the best defender in PL era, maybe in top 5. So i don't think anyone would compare Maguire with Vidic on their ability.(Also as good as Vidic was, he was even better when he played with Rio than with Evans, as a team we were at different level).

On the other point, football is a team game. You need players who cover each other. Take Liverpool as example, TAA's defensive weakness is covered by having very good DMs and their lack of creativity in midfield is covered by having very good attacking FBs. Firmino's lack of goals is covered by Salah's and Mane's records, their lack of link up player is covered by Firmino. It's all about team. If we play Maguire, we should play someone who has recovery pace, someone like Smalling, Bailly.

Even the great midfield like Kroos and Modric needed player like Casemiro to take the team to next level.

IMO our CB set up is poor as both lack the recovery pace.

 

[Fracture90]

Ok name me the 5 ahead of him then.

Name those better?

I'm assuming you'll have VVD and Laporte.

In no particular order i find these CB's better than him;
VVD
Vertonghen
Sanchez
Laporte
Matip
Rudiger
Alderweireld
Sokratis

Imo he's in the Stones, Diop, Lovren, Otamendi, Keane etc bracket. Good but quite prone to errors. Even Leicester seem to be doing quite good without him and they had no problems whatsoever in finding an more than adequate, some would even say a better replacement for him.

 

[romufc]

In no particular order i find these CB's better than him;
VVD
Vertonghen
Sanchez
Laporte
Matip
Rudiger
Alderweireld
Sokratis

Imo he's in the Stones, Diop, Lovren, Otamendi, Keane etc bracket. Good but quite prone to errors. Even Leicester seem to be doing quite good without him and they had no problems whatsoever in finding an more than adequate, some would even say a better replacement for him.

Are you actually being serious here? You have put Sokratis ahead of Maguire?

Matip cant get into the Liverpool team ahead of Gomez but he is a better defender?

Alderweireld and Vertonghen cannot get into the Spurs team

That list is actually absurd and to say he is in the Lovren category shows how much football you have watched.

 

[POF]

That's not the point, point is just because someone said even Vidic needed players to cover his weakness doesn't mean that poster is comparing them on their abilities. Vidic is one of the best defender in PL era, maybe in top 5. So i don't think anyone would compare Maguire with Vidic on their ability.(Also as good as Vidic was, he was even better when he played with Rio than with Evans, as a team we were at different level).

On the other point, football is a team game. You need players who cover each other. Take Liverpool as example, TAA's defensive weakness is covered by having very good DMs and their lack of creativity in midfield is covered by having very good attacking FBs. Firmino's lack of goals is covered by Salah's and Mane's records, their lack of link up player is covered by Firmino. It's all about team. If we play Maguire, we should play someone who has recovery pace, someone like Smalling, Bailly.

Even the great midfield like Kroos and Modric needed player like Casemiro to take the team to next level.

IMO our CB set up is poor as both lack the recovery pace.

I understand the point you're trying to make but you're wide of the mark here. You do need complementary players but Maguire is a centre back and needing someone to cover the fact he's not very good defensively is a major problem.

Comparing him to Vidic is wide of the mark because, defensively, Vidic didn't need anyone to cover him. He was a class defender.

It would be like saying that DDG needs a world class centre back pairing because he's not very good at stopping shots. Ironically, it now seems that he does but United don't have the centre backs either.

 

[roonster09]

I understand the point you're trying to make but you're wide of the mark here. You do need complementary players but Maguire is a centre back and needing someone to cover the fact he's not very good defensively is a major problem.

Comparing him to Vidic is wide of the mark because, defensively, Vidic didn't need anyone to cover him. He was a class defender.

It would be like saying that DDG needs a world class centre back pairing because he's not very good at stopping shots. Ironically, it now seems that he does but United don't have the centre backs either.

I completely disagree with almost everything, so lets agree to disagree.

 

[Fracture90]

Are you actually being serious here? You have put Sokratis ahead of Maguire?

Matip cant get into the Liverpool team ahead of Gomez but he is a better defender?

Alderweireld and Vertonghen cannot get into the Spurs team

That list is actually absurd and to say he is in the Lovren category shows how much football you have watched.

Hey you don't have to agree but that's how i feel about him. He's ridiculously overrated and we got skinned alive when we paid that much for a traffic cone.

 

[romufc]

Hey you don't have to agree but that's how i feel about him. He's ridiculously overrated and we got skinned alive when we paid that much for a traffic cone.

Fair enough, but to put Sokratis ahead of him?

 

[Fracture90]

Fair enough, but to put Sokratis ahead of him?

I think he's got fewer shortcomings than Maguire.

 

[DoomSlayer]

I want Maguire to succeed badly because of the fee he cost the club, but I had strong reservations about the way Leicester bullied us into paying such an outlandish price. I even said he is nowhere near being worth £80m+.

In my mind, the only way I see this working long-term is if we surround him with pacey players and take advantage of his supposed ball-playing abilities and passing range, which have also been suspect too often, to be brutally honest.

It's also questionable how Maguire became the team captain so quickly. Maybe he is very vocal behind the scenes and has helped create a better squad cohesion, but on the pitch, I don't think he is vocal enough, I don't see him organising the team, he doesn't bring a calming presence and looks very nervous when the stakes get high.

I would try and play him on AWB's side and pair him with Bailly for now, their style of defending and recovery pace should be able to cover for Maguire. It's a shame we have no proper mobile DM in our squad, as Fred has shown on multiple occasions that he can't handle players running past him and is suspect when trying to cover mistakes from our defenders. Matic is probably our best pure DM, but he is almost as slow as Maguire, which is far from ideal if we have to field both of them on the pitch.

 

[AshRK]

In no particular order i find these CB's better than him;
VVD
Vertonghen
Sanchez
Laporte
Matip
Rudiger
Alderweireld
Sokratis

Imo he's in the Stones, Diop, Lovren, Otamendi, Keane etc bracket. Good but quite prone to errors. Even Leicester seem to be doing quite good without him and they had no problems whatsoever in finding an more than adequate, some would even say a better replacement for him.

That's a ridiculous list. Sokratis, rudiger, Matip, Sanchez are not better than maguire. I understand you may not rate Maguire but the list shows you just are being over critical of him.

 

[POF]

I want Maguire to succeed badly because of the fee he cost the club, but I had strong reservations about the way Leicester bullied us into paying such an outlandish price. I even said he is nowhere near being worth £80m+.

In my mind, the only way I see this working long-term is if we surround him with pacey players and take advantage of his supposed ball-playing abilities and passing range, which have also been suspect too often, to be brutally honest.

It's also questionable how Maguire became the team captain so quickly. Maybe he is very vocal behind the scenes and has helped create a better squad cohesion, but on the pitch, I don't think he is vocal enough, I don't see him organising the team, he doesn't bring a calming presence and looks very nervous when the stakes get high.

I would try and play him on AWB's side and pair him with Bailly for now, their style of defending and recovery pace should be able to cover for Maguire. It's a shame we have no proper mobile DM in our squad, as Fred has shown on multiple occasions that he can't handle players running past him and is suspect when trying to cover mistakes from our defenders. Matic is probably our best pure DM, but he is almost as slow as Maguire, which is far from ideal if we have to field both of them on the pitch.

I prefer him on Shaw's side to be honest. AWB is very good one on one but I think Shaw is far better positionally. Maguire's lack of pace is a major weak link but he's rarely left exposed by Shaw. He was for the goal at Spurs only because Shaw gave the ball away when attempting to launch an attack.

With Maguire, it's like Steve Bruce mark II. He brings leadership and organisation but has pretty significant defensive flaws when exposed one on one. He needs a Pallister to help him out.

 

[TheReligion]

In no particular order i find these CB's better than him;
VVD
Vertonghen
Sanchez
Laporte
Matip
Rudiger
Alderweireld
Sokratis

Imo he's in the Stones, Diop, Lovren, Otamendi, Keane etc bracket. Good but quite prone to errors. Even Leicester seem to be doing quite good without him and they had no problems whatsoever in finding an more than adequate, some would even say a better replacement for him.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.

Saying Maguire is equal to Diop, Lovren, Keane, Otamendi, Stones is laughable. The fact City were trying to sign him to partner Laporte just shows how daft that is!

I'm not even going to get in to you suggesting Sokratis, Sanchez etc are better than him.

Blinkered.

 

[Fracture90]

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.

Saying Maguire is equal to Diop, Lovren, Keane, Otamendi, Stones is laughable. The fact City were trying to sign him to partner Laporte just shows how daft that is!

I'm not even going to get in to you suggesting Sokratis, Sanchez etc are better than him.

Blinkered.

In the same bracket, not equal to. City were after Sanches as well... not to mention their recent scatter-gun approach to buying CB's where they made so many poor choices.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Every time when he fecks up solution is to kick Lindelof out because Maguire is slow. Ok, i respect your opinion but best solution would be (which will never happen i know) to sell Maguire for 60-70 mil and buy new defender who is not that slow.

Unfortunately we aren’t getting our £80mil back but he was never the right CB signing.

Smalling kept a vintage Kane in his pocket on several occassions and no one gave him credit.

This.

Playing well against Kane would make Smalling as good as Rio & Vidic combined.

 

[arthurka]

The left wing was exposed due to Shaw's positioning. He should have closed up the center route and let the Spurs player run that channel. Instead he moved to the left and gave him a clean and clear channel to run into. Terrible defending but comes down to lack of playing and rustiness. He is by far out best CB and probably top 3 in the league. Lindelöf and DDG didn't help with that scenario one bit. Bad mistake from him and a clear feck up by DDG so blaming just him for this is not really right. DDG should be on the bench and should have been put there a while back. Harry is well ok in my books and this defense will get better.

 

[bsCallout]

He didn't though did he? Vidic was outstanding next to Jonny Evans who was out of his depth next to pretty much anyone else.

Maguire isn't a good defender. He's extremely immobile and slow on the turn. That was embarrassing the way Bergwijn got past him.

Maguire's strength is his physical strength and being good in the air but generally, United use him to play out from the back. That is the main attribute he adds to the team and (along with his leadership qualities) that's why Ole prefers him over Smalling.

Saying all of the above, Maguire desperately needs a different partner. It wouldn't make him a better defender but would better compensate for his weaknesses.

He needs a defender with more athleticism than Lindelof. I had hoped Lindelof would bulk up during lockdown but watching him concede that corner when Kane knocked him off balance by breathing in his general direction was just another example of his lack of physicality.

He did though. There is a good reason they formed such a partnership. There were many times in both of their Manchester United careers that they played 'alone' and it was obvious, even in a formidable team.

We have one of the best defences this season for a reason. It sometimes gets exposed because we have a clear weak link with attributes that don't compliment our best CB. Then that just highlights the one big weakness our best CB has.

Both Vidic and Rio reasonably often looked vulnerable without each other. Together they looked almost unbeatable.

I don't think it is a stretch to say putting someone next to Maguire with a bit of pace and good reading of the game would give us the second best CB partnerships in the League. Maybe even the best.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

He did though. There is a good reason they formed such a partnership. There were many times in both of their Manchester United careers that they played 'alone' and it was obvious, even in a formidable team.

We have one of the best defences this season for a reason. It sometimes gets exposed because we have a clear weak link with attributes that don't compliment our best CB. Then that just highlights the one big weakness our best CB has.

Both Vidic and Rio reasonably often looked vulnerable without each other. Together they looked almost unbeatable.

I don't think it is a stretch to say putting someone next to Maguire with a bit of pace and good reading of the game would give us the second best CB partnerships in the League. Maybe even the best.

His weakness gets exposed every time we are caught on the counter with a high line. It is OK to have weaknesses, but they should not be as extreme as Maguire lack of mobility nor Lindelofs struggles in physical duels. Vidic was not the best on the ball, nor the fastest, but he was still capable of passing and running. Rio was not the best in the air or in physical duels, but he was not a weakling either...

 

[TheReligion]

In the same bracket, not equal to. City were after Sanches as well... not to mention their recent scatter-gun approach to buying CB's where they made so many poor choices.

So City were trying to sign a CB equal to what they already had? Makes no sense.

 

[Fracture90]

So City were trying to sign a CB equal to what they already had? Makes no sense.

I'm flattered, in a way, but no i do not represent City's scouting department mate.

What you failed to get from my comment is that just because City wanted him it doesn't automatically make him one of the best defenders, it says that they valued him, but then again they also had valued Stones, Mangala, Otamendi etc...

 

[Van Piorsing]

Overpriced and perhaps sometimes overrated, but one injury to him and our defensive block ceases to exist as he's the only player willing to take all responsibilities in being a complete package of main defender.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Yeah because he is Usain bolt when fitter

Not his speed, the positioning error that led to the goal.

 

[Dr. McBeasty]

Harry is definitely a top 10 CB in the league. Top 5? Maybe, I can see an argument made for either direction. VVD and Laporte are #1 and 2 for me, but after that there's a bunch of guys who are all on a somewhat similar level. Maguire, Soyuncu, Evans, Boly, Rudiger, maybe even Egan, O'Connell, Gomez you could make an argument for. Sure, Maguire is slow on the turn and not the best 1 on 1 defender, but that's why he's rated as a tier 2 CB, and not tier 1. He's already massively improved our defense since arriving, and if we find a partner that complements him better, we could potentially get to the next level. We tend to hyper analyze Harry's mistakes as we watch him week in & week out, but when I see a lot of the suggestions of players who are supposedly better than him, I don't think that the same level of analysis/criticism is being applied.

Harry got burned against Spurs, obviously. That's part of life as a CB, it happens to everyone, so no need to make it more than what it is. If it happens too often, then perhaps it's an issue that needs to be addressed, but given that our defensive record has massively improved from last year to this year, I think it's fair to say his positives are far outweighing his negatives.

 

[Untd55]

I think he is decent, but nowhere near the £80m we paid. For that amount, you expect someone close to Van Dijk or Laporte, and he falls far short of those standards.

He is good at heading and tackling, but is that really much better than what a lot of other defenders can do? Leicester seem to have found it pretty easy to replace him with Soyuncu, which is not a good sign really. You would think they would struggle a bit if he was that good. But no, they actually have a better defensive record than us. They have actually improved since they sold Maguire. Funnily enough, they even play Evans.

The thing is for £80m, he seems replaceable. I could see a good number of players coming through who will be at least equal to him in the coming years. Will we stick with him or will we replace him with a better player when the opportunity arises?

 

[DoomSlayer]

I prefer him on Shaw's side to be honest. AWB is very good one on one but I think Shaw is far better positionally. Maguire's lack of pace is a major weak link but he's rarely left exposed by Shaw. He was for the goal at Spurs only because Shaw gave the ball away when attempting to launch an attack.

With Maguire, it's like Steve Bruce mark II. He brings leadership and organisation but has pretty significant defensive flaws when exposed one on one. He needs a Pallister to help him out.

The reason for my proposal is because I'd like whoever the LB is to overlap and be a constant part of our build-up play. Both Shaw and Williams are not exceptionally fast or good at taking recovery actions, so it's even more logical to have Maguire next to AWB.

I also did question Maguire's supposed leadership abilities - so far, I've never had the impression that he can perform consistently under pressure. He brings a lot of nervousness due to his total absence of pace.

 

[TheReligion]

I'm flattered, in a way, but no i do not represent City's scouting department mate.

What you failed to get from my comment is that just because City wanted him it doesn't automatically make him one of the best defenders, it says that they valued him, but then again they also had valued Stones, Mangala, Otamendi etc...

Well I didn't suggest you represent City's scouting department but I think it's an obvious point that Pep thought Maguire was the ideal replacement for Kompany and ranks him higher than Stones and Otamendi.

As for claiming players like Sokratis and Sanchez are better than Maguire and the likes of Diop is equal to him I can only assume you're over exaggerating or on a WUM.

Edit: I've just looked at the season stats and what you've suggested is laughable!

 

[Svartzonker]

Alderweireld and Verthongen better than Harry, not to mention fecking Sokratis and Otamendi. Why don’t add Mustafi while you’re at it?

Jesus christ, enough caf for today.

 

[Fracture90]

Well I didn't suggest you represent City's scouting department but I think it's an obvious point that Pep thought Maguire was the ideal replacement for Kompany and ranks him higher than Stones and Otamendi.

As for claiming players like Sokratis and Sanchez are better than Maguire and the likes of Diop is equal to him I can only assume you're over exaggerating or on a WUM.

Edit: I've just looked at the season stats and what you've suggested is laughable!

You have a tendency to argue with yourself mate. Why putting the emphasis on the word "equal"? You said that not me. Also just because Guardiola wanted him doesn't mean he rates him higher than the two you mentioned, what if he thinks that those two can't function together and he's to add another dimension in defense? At one point City were interested in Jonny fkin Evans!

Again you seem unable to grasp the point im making, if City wanted him it doesn't automatically make him among the best, because they tend to make poor choices when it comes to CB purchases.

He's a massively overrated traffic cone who's only good in the air and is capable of making a decent pass here and there.

 

[TheReligion]

You have a tendency to argue with yourself mate. Why putting the emphasis on the word "equal"? You said that not me. Also just because Guardiola wanted him doesn't mean he rates him higher than the two you mentioned, what if he thinks that those two can't function together and he's to add another dimension in defense? At one point City were interested in Jonny fkin Evans!

Again you seem unable to grasp the point im making, if City wanted him it doesn't automatically make him among the best, because they tend to make poor choices when it comes to CB purchases.

He's a massively overrated traffic cone who's only good in the air and is capable of making a decent pass here and there.

I wonder how he manages to excel over the majority of the players you say are better than him statistically then.

Must be magic!

 

[Infra-red]

The reason for my proposal is because I'd like whoever the LB is to overlap and be a constant part of our build-up play. Both Shaw and Williams are not exceptionally fast or good at taking recovery actions, so it's even more logical to have Maguire next to AWB.

I also did question Maguire's supposed leadership abilities - so far, I've never had the impression that he can perform consistently under pressure. He brings a lot of nervousness due to his total absence of pace.

Agreed. I think that the long-term solution is indeed to move Maguire to RCB, bring in a quick, aggressive LCB (ideally a left-footed one, who is comfortable being dragged into wide areas), plus a more attacking left back. That would leave Maguire flanked by players with recovery pace and 1v1 ability and the defence more balanced than it currently is. It does require purchasing a CB and a LB though...

 

[Fracture90]

I wonder how he manages to excel over the majority of the players you say are better than him statistically then.

Must be magic!

Huh no more 'bUt CiTeH WaNtEd hIm He MuSt bE gOd' once you realize Pep was after Jonny Evans as well?

Need i remind you that we're no strangers to sitting deep and catching other teams on the counter even under Ole? Surely you're aware of that homie.

 

[TheReligion]

Huh no more 'bUt CiTeH WaNtEd hIm He MuSt bE gOd' once you realize Pep was after Jonny Evans as well?

Need i remind you that we're no strangers to sitting deep and catching other teams on the counter even under Ole? Surely you're aware of that homie.

Sure. That's the way we set up to play. Is that a bad thing? I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.

Like I say statistically Maguire is top 5 in the PL easily. I've no issue with people being critical of him but he's had a 7/10 first season for me an to suggest he's no better than some of the names you mentioned is untrue.

 

[Hammondo]

Maguire is one of the best CB in the PL.

Thats something that Man united fans say, not even Leicester fans cared about him. What does he do well? What is he really good at? Because I can tell you what hes not good at.

 

[Fracture90]

Sure. That's the way we set up to play. Is that a bad thing? I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.

Like I say statistically Maguire is top 5 in the PL easily. I've no issue with people being critical of him but he's had a 7/10 first season for me an to suggest he's no better than some of the names you mentioned is untrue.

I mean it shouldn't be that hard to spot a direct correlation between us playing defensively and Maguire having a nice stat-sheet like air duels won, clearances etc?

 

[TheReligion]

I mean it shouldn't be that hard to spot a direct correlation between us playing defensively and Maguire having a nice stat-sheet like air duels won, clearances etc?

You can hardly criticise Maguire for doing the job he's been brought in to do though surely?

 

[Fracture90]

You can hardly criticise Maguire for doing the job he's been brought in to do though surely?

Sure, when were bundled in and around our box, he's pretty effective but when we're not, he's getting skinned alive, like it has been shown in that video compilation. He's extremely dependant on his defensive teammates to cover for his very obvious shortcomings.

To cut this short as it's getting quite tedious, you rate him highly, I don't. That's it.

 

[Amir]

I'm certain Ole wanted either Bailly or Tuanzabe to partner him, they both have all the attributes to partner Maguire. If either of them can stay fit we won't need another CB.

It makes sense, but Tuanzebe was fit for a period of time during this season and there seemed to be little willingness to partner him with Maguire. And as much as I like Bailly's potential, I'd be surprised if he ever makes it with all those injuries.

I'm not sure there was much of a plan except for 'we need a centerhalf, here's one'.

 

[chrysolite]

I bet no one will complain about Maguire's performances if we paid like £30m for him. Stop judging his performance by how much we paid for him. He just needs a pacier partner to make up for his shortcomings. It's very obvious that he has improved our defense

 

[TheReligion]

Sure, when were bundled in and around our box, he's pretty effective but when we're not, he's getting skinned alive, like it has been shown in that video compilation. He's extremely dependant on his defensive teammates to cover for his very obvious shortcomings.

To cut this short as it's getting quite tedious, you rate him highly, I don't. That's it.

I rate him higher than Sanchez, Diop, Stones, Otamendi, Sokratis etc

You don't. That is the argument and I think you'd be pretty alone in that assessment.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Thats something that Man united fans say, not even Leicester fans cared about him. What does he do well? What is he really good at? Because I can tell you what hes not good at.

He is realy very good in the air. And he is good on the ball. I can't say that he is bad defender. But he is 30 mil defender for whom we gave 80mil and now we as a club are doing everything to show how he is some kind of leader or new captain marvel. In reality he is good defender but not for clubs who want to play attacking football. Because his complete lack of pace and agility is a huge flaw.
We made huge mistake by signing him

 

[Fracture90]

I rate him higher than Sanchez, Diop, Stones, Otamendi, Sokratis etc

You don't. That is the argument and I think you'd be pretty alone in that assessment.

Mate in almost every reply you made to me you managed to slip in something you yourself added and you try to sell it as my opinion...and by doing so you're basically arguing with yourself.