Harry Maguire’s speed...

He's deceptively fast. In that he looks like he's moving slowly but he's really moving quite fast. Like when you see a jet flying over head at 30000ft, it doesn't look like it's moving as fast as it really is.

It's a burst of speed over the first ten yards that is lacking.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
He had a poor run after being rushed back too soon from injury. The same thing happened last year. He's still our best defender (until Varrane proves otherwise, but he has to be healthy to do so). And all this "doesn't read the game well" is a bunch of crap. He leads our defenders in interceptions. People are just looking for a scapegoat and nothing more...
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No that's not it, he is making tons of errors this season precisely because he is not reading the game well. I don't know whether it's injury or what but he looks a step behind his old self.
 
OL29 said:
Are you on drugs? I’ve never watched Mark Goldbrige in my life you complete weirdo, I’m perfectly capable of forming my own opinion. Get a grip, going on like I insulted your mum.
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You've never watched him but knew his first name when I only said "Goldbridge"...exposed :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
11101 said:
No that's not it, he is making tons of errors this season precisely because he is not reading the game well. I don't know whether it's injury or what but he looks a step behind his old self.
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He WAS making errors when he was rushed back too soon after injury (just like last year) because Ole didn't trust his squad. But as of late he's been doing well. That's because he's not injured anymore
 
SadlerMUFC said:
You've never watched him but knew his first name when I only said "Goldbridge"...exposed :lol: :lol: :lol:
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He’s pretty well known you clown. About exposed, I bet you’re one of those Stan accounts on Twitter with a Harry Maguire avi. Freak.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
He WAS making errors when he was rushed back too soon after injury (just like last year) because Ole didn't trust his squad. But as of late he's been doing well. That's because he's not injured anymore
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No - he was making them well before then - off the top of my mind comes the silly decision to dive in on the half way line vs Newcastle for their goal. Should've cost us a penalty vs Arsenal too not long ago.

imo, he'll always have mistakes in his game - fit or not. He's just the type of player who doesn't read the game well and plays himself into trouble frequently.
 
Roux said:
No - he was making them well before then - off the top of my mind comes the silly decision to dive in on the half way line vs Newcastle for their goal. Should've cost us a penalty vs Arsenal too not long ago.

imo, he'll always have mistakes in his game - fit or not. He's just the type of player who doesn't read the game well and plays himself into trouble frequently.
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If you look for errors you will find them. I'm sure you are very quiet every time he does something good. He is by far our best defender yet he is scapegoated so much (Varane has to play a string of games before he can be considered our best defender). I am so glad the clowns at TheCaf aren't in charge of our team. Most of you know absolutely nothing about this game. This whole "he doesn't read the game well" is a bunch of crap. Last year the only defender who had more interceptions than him was AWB with 62. Lindelof had 30 and Shaw had 22. Maguire had 60. And his clearances were top in the team with 122. Lindelof had 95, AWB 62 and Shaw 39. So don't give me this crap that he "doesn't read the game well". He does. But I get it. So many other people on here are saying the same thing and you are all a bunch of muppets who just listen to what others say rather than coming up with an opinion of your own, so you just repeat it. But my god, at least try and back up such stupid claims with evidence or just don't say anything, because when you look at the stats, you will quickly learn just how wrong you are and that you are just looking to scapegoat our captain...

Harry Maguire Statistics | Premier League
Victor Lindelöf Statistics | Premier League
Luke Shaw Statistics | Premier League
Aaron Wan-Bissaka Statistics | Premier League
 
Roux said:
No - he was making them well before then - off the top of my mind comes the silly decision to dive in on the half way line vs Newcastle for their goal. Should've cost us a penalty vs Arsenal too not long ago.

imo, he'll always have mistakes in his game - fit or not. He's just the type of player who doesn't read the game well and plays himself into trouble frequently.
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He made several mistakes before the injury, and many of his mistakes after injury are can not be blamed on the injury as they were poor decisions really. Has been a incredibly poor season for him, maybe the worst I’ve seen for a CB at this level, but last match looked promising. Hopefully he can turn this around.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
If you look for errors you will find them. I'm sure you are very quiet every time he does something good. He is by far our best defender yet he is scapegoated so much (Varane has to play a string of games before he can be considered our best defender). I am so glad the clowns at TheCaf aren't in charge of our team. Most of you know absolutely nothing about this game. This whole "he doesn't read the game well" is a bunch of crap. Last year the only defender who had more interceptions than him was AWB with 62. Lindelof had 30 and Shaw had 22. Maguire had 60. And his clearances were top in the team with 122. Lindelof had 95, AWB 62 and Shaw 39. So don't give me this crap that he "doesn't read the game well". He does. But I get it. So many other people on here are saying the same thing and you are all a bunch of muppets who just listen to what others say rather than coming up with an opinion of your own, so you just repeat it. But my god, at least try and back up such stupid claims with evidence or just don't say anything, because when you look at the stats, you will quickly learn just how wrong you are and that you are just looking to scapegoat our captain...

Harry Maguire Statistics | Premier League
Victor Lindelöf Statistics | Premier League
Luke Shaw Statistics | Premier League
Aaron Wan-Bissaka Statistics | Premier League
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I wish i could say i see the things he's done well - but let's be honest - not much from this season. I think Lindelof has been our best defender and by a long way too.

The rest of your post is just embarrassing really - we know nothing about the game etc... urm okay.... kind of person who blindly defends a player who has been truly horrendous this season and why we find ourself far from title contenders. I don't care too much about stats - i watch every game as i see it, and he's been terrible - soo many individual errors leading to goals, this is someone who is supposed the be the leader and spine of the team. He was at fault for EVERY goal in the game vs Liverpool - how's that for evidence?
 
I mean I wouldn't say he's slow but I'm pretty sure part of our vaccination problem is because him and Matic have only just reached the midway point of the first lockdown.
 
Roux said:
I wish i could say i see the things he's done well - but let's be honest - not much from this season. I think Lindelof has been our best defender and by a long way too.

The rest of your post is just embarrassing really - we know nothing about the game etc... urm okay.... kind of person who blindly defends a player who has been truly horrendous this season and why we find ourself far from title contenders. I don't care too much about stats - i watch every game as i see it, and he's been terrible - soo many individual errors leading to goals, this is someone who is supposed the be the leader and spine of the team. He was at fault for EVERY goal in the game vs Liverpool - how's that for evidence?
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That's so not true. He started the season well and only went into poor form after being rushed back too soon from injury. But for the last few games he's been good again. But people gonna hate
 
SadlerMUFC said:
That's so not true. He started the season well and only went into poor form after being rushed back too soon from injury. But for the last few games he's been good again. But people gonna hate
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He really didn't as i said earlier - look at the Newcastle goal - terrible defending for their goal. Even worse in the Villa and Southampton games. He only has himself to blame if he was 'rushed back' - nobody from the club would force him to play, but he, himself tried to play the hero captain and come back sooner. By far our worst player this season - but yeah - keep defending him for some bizarre reason.
 
he looked good when alongside Varane.....and completely hopeless without him......I'm hoping that once the CM deficiencies in front of him are sorted that he can get back to his summer England level
 
Roux said:
He really didn't as i said earlier - look at the Newcastle goal - terrible defending for their goal. Even worse in the Villa and Southampton games. He only has himself to blame if he was 'rushed back' - nobody from the club would force him to play, but he, himself tried to play the hero captain and come back sooner. By far our worst player this season - but yeah - keep defending him for some bizarre reason.
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So when City allows a goal do you over analyze it and then say Dias is crap? DIdn't think so. But people look for it with Maguire. He's their scapegoat...
 
I don't think he is slow. Anyway, that is not the main attribute of a defender. It is reading the of the game and opposition players. He can improve in that regard. Seems to get too close to tricky attackers. I think Ralf can sort him out.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
So when City allows a goal do you over analyze it and then say Dias is crap? DIdn't think so. But people look for it with Maguire. He's their scapegoat...
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Even if that might be the case - Maguire still wasn't great at the start of the season. He was alright on good days, but thats about it and on the not so good days, he looked shakey. The whole team looked suspect defensively, there is no point denying that. Last year, Maguire had a slow start as well but then grew somewhat into the season. Lets hope, that happens this year as well. But on a serious note, he seems to be kind of thick so maybe all the pressure really is getting on to him.

Is he slow? I don't know, but he isn't agile at all therefor gets turned pretty easy. Due to his frame, his stepping up tackles work quite well but I think, if we commit to a higher line, our whole defense will have to turn up a notch as it requires a better positional play than what has been delivered.
 
He is actually quite fast in a straight run off, but he takes damn long to turn and get into a stride. But once he gets on his stride, he is pretty fast. Almost like Juggernaut from X-men. Was worried about his speed playing in a high defensive line, but judging from the few games RR took over and we started playing high up, he was able to cope quite well. I was quite surprise how fast he is.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
So when City allows a goal do you over analyze it and then say Dias is crap? DIdn't think so. But people look for it with Maguire. He's their scapegoat...
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What a daft response - if Dias made an individual errors leading to a goal and did that a few times over the period of many games - then of course your have every right to question/blame him. Incredible to me that people still defend him - he's been absolutely shocking this season. I have genuine fear every time he has the ball and is being pressed - he never looks comfortable with the ball.
 
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He's not slow in a straight line when running, he's slow to turn and accelerate. He actually kept up with Sane in a straight line foot race and tackled him before, if he was slow that wouldn't be possible.

The issue is he doesn't move his feet quickly enough at a standing position, and doesn't have the drive getting off the line.

I do think he's been carrying a muscle injury lately, since he came back from injury he's looked a lot more reluctant to run like he's protecting himself.
 
Lentwood said:
Pep Guardiola (4 Aug 2019) - “Maguire is an excellent, top-class player. We were interested but we could not afford him. United could afford him. He's strong in the air, good with the ball, he can drive with the ball and he's so fast"

Jose Mourinho - ""I was not an idiot when I was crying in the last pre-season for a central defender, first of all, he has physical qualities. If Maguire does not come, then today you have (Victor) Lindelof and (Axel) Tuanzebe, or Lindelof and Phil Jones. It's a big difference."

NameMinutesTop Speed km/hAvg. Speed km/h
Virgil van Dijk27035.8034.80
Harry Maguire36035.2130.37
Andreas Christensen43532.8031.57
John Stones27031.8031.14
Ruben Dias36431.7028.24
Gerard Pique39331.7031.24
Presnel Kimpembe45031.6030.70
Victor Lindelof36031.5031.00
Thiago Silva36731.2030.47
Mats Hummels35830.6029.77
David Alaba51530.5030.10
Joel Matip45030.3029.74

Source - https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/clubs/players/250075007--harry-maguire/statistics/
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(Don't mind the robotic retelling of the events, it's to avoid a copyright strike).

Also, you're kidding yourself if you think that by physical qualities Mourinho meant speed. Caf is prone to overreacting and players that go through tough patches (and Maguire's one was one of the worst ones in our recent history) but you shouldn't allow your willingness to defend him to cloud your judgement. Top speed means absolutely nothing in football — for example, strikers and forwards often aren't in those lists as they don't run for such long distances as a centre back or a fullback who is carrying the ball forward. Acceleration is what's important and Maguire's acceleration is one of the worst that I've seen in professional football — it's not really that surprising, considering that he's one of the heaviest player in the league (and unless you're a physical freak like van Dijk it usually affects your speed). He's also very slow on the turn. The most important thing though is that he's not very good positionally either — in pure counter-attacking systems like that of Leicester or England, where he is asked to sit deeper, he can use his intimidating physique to its fullest, becoming a very good player. Whenever he has insufficient cover from midfield (and by insufficient I mean not over-the-top) or is asked to step further up to push the defensive line higher, his undeniable (although you somehow deny them) weaknesses get exposed.

I just don't get why you need to argue that Maguire is fast — it's simply an absurd point if we're talking about any speed stat that is actually relevant in football. He has his strengths that you can focus on, he's had periods of good/very good form — if you want to show that your opponent is biased against him, don't start your counter-argument by stating that a circle has 4 corners.
 
harms said:


(Don't mind the robotic retelling of the events, it's to avoid a copyright strike).

Also, you're kidding yourself if you think that by physical qualities Mourinho meant speed. Caf is prone to overreacting and players that go through tough patches (and Maguire's one was one of the worst ones in our recent history) but you shouldn't allow your willingness to defend him to cloud your judgement. Top speed means absolutely nothing in football — for example, strikers and forwards often aren't in those lists as they don't run for such long distances as a centre back or a fullback who is carrying the ball forward. Acceleration is what's important and Maguire's acceleration is one of the worst that I've seen in professional football — it's not really that surprising, considering that he's one of the heaviest player in the league (and unless you're a physical freak like van Dijk it usually affects your speed). He's also very slow on the turn. The most important thing though is that he's not very good positionally either — in pure counter-attacking systems like that of Leicester or England, where he is asked to sit deeper, he can use his intimidating physique to its fullest, becoming a very good player. Whenever he has insufficient cover from midfield (and by insufficient I mean not over-the-top) or is asked to step further up to push the defensive line higher, his undeniable (although you somehow deny them) weaknesses get exposed.

I just don't get why you need to argue that Maguire is fast — it's simply an absurd point if we're talking about any speed stat that is actually relevant in football. He has his strengths that you can focus on, he's had periods of good/very good form — if you want to show that your opponent is biased against him, don't start your counter-argument by stating that a circle has 4 corners.
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Agreed.

He doesn't suit a high line because as you correctly point out, his biggest flaw is a lack of acceleration, which is very important when defending high up the pitch with the CBs on the half way line with or without the ball. Top speed is useless in such a scenario.
 
[QUOTE="harms, post: 28258175, member:
I just don't get why you need to argue that Maguire is fast][/QUOTE]

The point is not that Maguire is fast, I posted those stats and quotes without comment. The point is, based on top speed and average speed, he's certainly comparable with other CBs from top European teams.

The reason (for the millionth time) that Maguire "went through a rough patch" at the start of this season was because our defending collectively as a team was absolutely chaotic because of Ole's total inability to implement a more progressive system. Maguire is perfectly capable of playing this way and we will see that over the next few months under a proper manager.
 
Lentwood said:
The point is not that Maguire is fast, I posted those stats and quotes without comment. The point is, based on top speed and average speed, he's certainly comparable with other CBs from top European teams.

The reason (for the millionth time) that Maguire "went through a rough patch" at the start of this season was because our defending collectively as a team was absolutely chaotic because of Ole's total inability to implement a more progressive system. Maguire is perfectly capable of playing this way and we will see that over the next few months under a proper manager.
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You should compare his relevant speed stats — if you’re able to find those, of course, I’m not sure if they measure that. And if you look at them, he’s really not comparable with other top CBs. He’s the modern equivalent of Steve Bruce or Ronald Koeman in terms of acceleration & agility, but he doesn’t possess neither the mentality of the former nor the spatial awareness of the latter (and both of them still often looked like complete buffoons when the opposition had managed to successfully expose their weaknesses).

He’s not a bad player, mind you, and he’s still our second best center back, but you can’t only judge him by his best spell while completely ignoring multiple times when he had barely even resembled a Premier league defender (he’s still distressed about Greece… he’s not fit… Ole is a fraud…). Just as you can’t ignore periods where he had looked borderline world-class, including an impressive performance at an international tournament. He is what he is, a good player with an unusually unbalanced set of abilities which leads to a huge disparity between his best and worst performances that he’s unlikely to ever overcome. As for your hope that he’ll do well in a more proactive system — I admire your confidence. Personally I very much doubt both him and Wan-Bissaka in that new system but we’ll see, I guess.

I just hate the inevitable overcompensation that follows any player’s criticism on caf (which itself is often over the top). Wan-Bissaka is horrible with the ball? Ackchyually, no, he’s great, didn’t you hear that he used to be a winger? Maguire is horrible and the lack of speed is an issue? Ackchyually, no, he once reached a top speed of 35 km/h.
 
harms said:
You should compare his relevant speed stats — if you’re able to find those, of course, I’m not sure if they measure that.
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Again, the point of the stats is not to "prove" something...Homer Simpson was actually right when he said "you can prove anything with facts". The point is, statistically based on top speed and average speed, he's middle of the pack for top CBs at top European clubs. That's just a fact. Now, of course, we can talk about acceleration and turning speed etc...but I don't see how these are more or less relevant than the stats we have...I'm sure that Maguire would (again) be about in the middle.

I think it comes down, again, to a basic misunderstanding about the fundamentals of defending. Most of the "mistakes" Maguire has made this season are the result of a chaotic and disorganised approach to defending across the entire team. There's no way of "proving" this, since we're comparing what DID happen to what MIGHT have happened under different circumstances, but I have no doubt in my mind that if you swapped Ruben Dias with Harry Maguire (teams and transfer fees), it would be Dias getting hammered and Maguire getting praised as a world-class CB. The price-tag and the high-profile nature of playing for, let's face it, a very average Utd side mean he was likely to attract criticism regardless. Add in Ole's chaotic efforts to playing "progressive" football and our defenders really have been hung out to dry. Especially because if you play at CB, the majority of goals conceded are going to make you look bad in one way, shape or form.

I think AWB (a player you highlight) has technical issues, and they can't easily be solved. I personally don't believe Maguire has fundamental issues, I think his issues have stemmed from poor management, poor organisation and poor coaching. I am convinced that Maguire will be back to his best before long under Rangnick. I don't think a supposed lack of speed has anything to do with it personally. His speed is fine. It's probably about par or slightly above (depending what you measure) and proper coaching and management will see us defend much better as a unit and as individuals (as a result).
 
Lentwood said:
Again, the point of the stats is not to "prove" something...Homer Simpson was actually right when he said "you can prove anything with facts". The point is, statistically based on top speed and average speed, he's middle of the pack for top CBs at top European clubs. That's just a fact. Now, of course, we can talk about acceleration and turning speed etc...but I don't see how these are more or less relevant than the stats we have...I'm sure that Maguire would (again) be about in the middle.
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At least explain to me what is an average speed. If he runs around for 90 minutes with an average speed of 30 km/h he should cover around 45 km per game. Somehow I doubt it.


Lentwood said:
His speed is fine. It's probably about par or slightly above (depending what you measure) and proper coaching and management will see us defend much better as a unit and as individuals (as a result).
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On par or slightly above with other center backs, I assume? So you genuinely think that he’s faster than an average CB?
 
Lentwood said:
Think you are clutching somewhat. Top speed is second-best and the average speed is certainly there or thereabouts, as compared to the defenders from some of the best sides in Europe.

I have said time and time again, speed is an overrated attribute in defenders. Few if any of the top defenders come even close to being as quick as the top attackers. The key is not to be isolated or exposed.
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these top speed charts have always been suspect. Always come up with some outrageous readings that make you wonder are they recording top speed over one stride?

previous 10 FASTEST in the entire premier league

https://www.sportbible.com/football...ayers-in-the-premier-league-revealed-20200727

In third is Manchester United hot-shot Mason Greenwood, scorer of 10 Premier League goals this season. The 18-year old is known his two-footedness when shooting but his pace is not to be overlooked; Greenwood ran at 23.36mph against Everton on March 1

You wouldn't have Leicester City's Caglar Soyuncu down as a speedster but the Turkish centre-back was the sixth-fastest player in the Premier League this term, with a top speed of of 23.33mph against Crystal Palace.

Arsenal's Ainsley Maitland-Niles ran at 23.27mph against Manchester City in December, while the top ten is completed by Southampton's Shane Long (23.21mph), Manchester United's Fred (23.17mph) and Manchester City's Phil Foden (23.07mph).

to put into perspective, the female Usain Bolt Thompson-Herah ran a top speed of. 24.20m.p.h. at 68 meters. She is the 2nd fastest woman alive running 100m in 10.5. I think the football recordings are off.

Oranges038 said:
He's deceptively fast. In that he looks like he's moving slowly but he's really moving quite fast. Like when you see a jet flying over head at 30000ft, it doesn't look like it's moving as fast as it really is.

It's a burst of speed over the first ten yards that is lacking.
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he's not

harms said:
At least explain to me what is an average speed. If he runs around for 90 minutes with an average speed of 30 km/h he should cover around 45 km per game. Somehow I doubt it.



On par or slightly above with other center backs, I assume? So you genuinely think that he’s faster than an average CB?
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no one has any idea how the speeds are recorded and using what equipment, distance or anything. tis why they are always suspect.
 
Adnan said:
Agreed.

He doesn't suit a high line because as you correctly point out, his biggest flaw is a lack of acceleration, which is very important when defending high up the pitch with the CBs on the half way line with or without the ball. Top speed is useless in such a scenario.
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If everyone's fit, who do you think is our first choice CB pairing? Varane - Lindeloff or Varane - Maguire?
 
Oranges038 said:
He's deceptively fast. In that he looks like he's moving slowly but he's really moving quite fast. Like when you see a jet flying over head at 30000ft, it doesn't look like it's moving as fast as it really is.

It's a burst of speed over the first ten yards that is lacking.
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He turns like a bus. Having top speed is great, but agility, nimbleness, and being able to shift his weight quickly is just as (if not more) important given his position.
 
Stacks said:
these top speed charts have always been suspect. Always come up with some outrageous readings that make you wonder are they recording top speed over one stride?

previous 10 FASTEST in the entire premier league

https://www.sportbible.com/football...ayers-in-the-premier-league-revealed-20200727

In third is Manchester United hot-shot Mason Greenwood, scorer of 10 Premier League goals this season. The 18-year old is known his two-footedness when shooting but his pace is not to be overlooked; Greenwood ran at 23.36mph against Everton on March 1

You wouldn't have Leicester City's Caglar Soyuncu down as a speedster but the Turkish centre-back was the sixth-fastest player in the Premier League this term, with a top speed of of 23.33mph against Crystal Palace.

Arsenal's Ainsley Maitland-Niles ran at 23.27mph against Manchester City in December, while the top ten is completed by Southampton's Shane Long (23.21mph), Manchester United's Fred (23.17mph) and Manchester City's Phil Foden (23.07mph).

to put into perspective, the female Usain Bolt Thompson-Herah ran a top speed of. 24.20m.p.h. at 68 meters. She is the 2nd fastest woman alive running 100m in 10.5. I think the football recordings are off.


he's not


no one has any idea how the speeds are recorded and using what equipment, distance or anything. tis why they are always suspect.
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Pretty sure it's the GPS trackers sewn in the shirts.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Speed in central defense is quite possibly one of the most over rated attributes a centre half can have. But all the "experts" around here act like it's the be all end all. Truth is, you're all just looking for an excuse to put down Maguire. I can count on one hand how many times Harry's "lack of pace" has cost us a goal. But I get it. It was your 85m spent on him and he's your scapegoat....sigh
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You should count how many times his inability to turn quickly enough and worse yet lapses in concentration have led directly to goals.
 
Suedesi said:
If everyone's fit, who do you think is our first choice CB pairing? Varane - Lindeloff or Varane - Maguire?
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If the intention is to play the game in the opposition half via a high line, whilst also having counter pressing capabilities high up the pitch, then Varane and Lindelof are the better pairing IMO.

Maguire is best suited to playing in a team which sits deeper in a low/mid-block IMO.
 
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